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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: Buddabing on May 02, 2007, 10:22:40 am
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Hello,
I started working with a personal trainer about six weeks ago and I did my first set of measurements this week.
I made some nice progress; half an inch off the waist, half an inch off the thighs, and half an inch off the hips. Plus my "recovery pulse" was lower, etc.
But one number was off. My body fat, which was 22% six weeks ago, was measured at 23.8%! Although my diet is poor and my weight went up two pounds over the six weeks, I still did not expect body fat percentage to increase.
The device they use is a little hand-held gadget, gripped in both hands, that has some kind of sensor in the palms of the grips.
My question is, how accurate are those doodads compared to getting in the tank or being measured by calipers?
TIA,
Buddabing
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Nothing is near the accuracy of the water immersion method. Nothing is nearly as expensive and requires all that time and equipment, either.
The calipers method is good for an experienced person measuring someone else. It's way too easy to fudge the pressure on yourself to be a reasonable method for someone in the 20%+ range. You'd be able to get a 5% range just with a small amount of squeezing or not squeezing.
The bioimpedance method is good for getting a baseline of where you are, i.e. "I'm at 22%". I've never had great luck with it for tracking small changes over time as you're doing and I have definitely experienced exacly what you have said. I've gone down in weight, up in muscle measurements, down in waist size, only to see a 2% bodyfat increase in the same period. Somehow that one % number destroys your positive image of what you have accomplished, too. You can have 20 good numbers but if that one is bad you feel like you failed.
My best advice is to ignore that reading. Bioimpedance can be affected by so many simple things like time of day or hydration level. Focus on the more tangible measurements in the short term and only use the bodyfat level as a long term measurement over many weeks or months. If your "fat place" measurements are going down and your weight is going up, you are doing well.
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I don't know how accurate those things are, but if you are serious about getting in shape you MUST get your diet in order.
Here's a link dealing with body fat calculation methods:
http://www.annecollins.com/body-fat-calculators.htm
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Yeah, don't worry about the arbitrary and likely inaccurate body fat calculations. Glad to hear you've started a regime. Keep it up!
And avoid Corn Syrup.
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The funny thing is that I don't appear any different to myself. Same beer gut. But I feel better, no more persistent lower back pain. The trainer says that strengthening the abs tends to help back pain because the back muscles have to do less work.
Changing diet may be difficult. The trainer says to have several small meals each day. Easier said than done. My co-worker in the cube next door used to drink "delicious shakes" between meals. I think he got the ones you put in a blender with some ice. How good are those? Having a "delicious shake" at 3:00 or so really would help the between-meal snacking urges. And do vitamins/minerals/ other supplements help at all?
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If all you want to do is get in better condition, you don't have to separate your meals like that. All you have to do is eat quality foods and cut down on crap. That's it. That is more than enough for most people. Going to 5-6 small meals a day, going 100% clean diet of tuna/rice/chicken/broccoli, etc is for athletes, bodybuilders, and people who only want to stick with the diet for two weeks.
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Yea, what Chad said. Just eat smarter. Just really start watching your calories. I don't know if this is true, but a buddy of mine said that you bascially need 10 calories per pound of body weight just to maintain. So, if you're 200 pounds you need to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain that weight. If you want to lose weight, eat less than 2000/day, to gain weight eat more than 2000/day.
The important thing is that you are feeling better, just don't get discouraged. Keep working and your weight will come down.
If you have to snack in between meals eat something healthy, don't go for the candy bars and chips.
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If you want to eat healthier, the first thing to do is cut out all fried foods. Once you wean yourself off of fried food, it sounds gross even thinking about eating it. If you even have one order of fries though, you'll be hooked again. I don't know if it is a scientific fact, but I truly believe that deep fried foods are addictive.
Another easy fix is to cut out pop.
Once upon a time, I lost like 35 lbs in about 8 months. I eliminated fried food, cut out pop almost completely, and counted fat grams. If you can keep to 15 fat grams or less in each meal, then you are doing good. Doesn't get much simpler than counting fat grams IMO.
Good Luck! I wish I had the motivation to get in shape. I definitely need to change my eating/exercise habits.
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Yea, what Chad said. Just eat smarter. Just really start watching your calories. I don't know if this is true, but a buddy of mine said that you bascially need 10 calories per pound of body weight just to maintain. So, if you're 200 pounds you need to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain that weight. If you want to lose weight, eat less than 2000/day, to gain weight eat more than 2000/day.
When I was powerlifting, I used to go with 10-11 to lose, 12-13 to maintain, and 13+ to gain. So that's about right for an average muscled person.
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I 100% agree with sharidian. I cut out soda almost fifteen years ago and dropped eight pounds in a week, and this was off a (then) 160 lb frame. I eliminated most all fried foods and fast foods about twelve years ago and never looked back. Throw some exercise in three or four times a week, eat halfway decently and you'll feel and look better in a relatively short span.
Oh, ignore the scale and pay attention to the mirror instead.
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I agree with a lot of whats been said here, such as shakes and 5 meals a day are for people who really want to get in shape and will really commit to it. Eating 3 healthy meals is perfectly fine for the average person. However, if you do decide you want to do 5 meals, or just want a good protein shake to drink, I've found the one called "Metabolic Drive" is the best protein shake there is (some of you might know it by its old name, "Grow!"). I've tried a number of different low carb shakes, and IMO this one is easily the best.
Also, I picked up a neat thing at Bed,Bath, and Beyond a while ago made for these shakes. Basically it has a container for the water, on the bottom is a screw on section to hold the powder, and inside there is a thing you stick in the freezer which keeps the water cold all day. It lets me easily have a cold shake anywhere I go, and definately worth finding one if your serious about the 5 meals a day.
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Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup. It's a killer, man.
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And don't halfass it by moving to diet soda instead. That never works all that well as it doesn't develop the discipline. Plus, diet soda is really bad for you too, but in more sinister ways.
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Well, I dropped 20 pounds a few years ago when I switched to diet soda. Yes, diet soda is supposedly bad for you. But I'd rather drink that than the swill that passes for coffee at the office, and I don't know if I want to go through caffeine withdrawal at this time.
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They make caffeine pills. Consider reading some of emerging studies based on the long term effects of artificial sweeteners and the brain. They're starting to find potential links to really scary stuff like Alzheimer's.
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Well, I dropped 20 pounds a few years ago when I switched to diet soda. Yes, diet soda is supposedly bad for you. But I'd rather drink that than the swill that passes for coffee at the office, and I don't know if I want to go through caffeine withdrawal at this time.
Stop on the way to the office and buy coffee.
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I 100% agree with sharidian. I cut out soda almost fifteen years ago and dropped eight pounds in a week, and this was off a (then) 160 lb frame.
A month ago I switched from regular to diet soda. I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days. After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.
I wasn't fat, but now I'm in better shape for summer.
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Even if I could manage eatting right, I think I would have a hard time getting on a good sleep schedule.
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We have one of the weight scales that also calculates body fat %age. It may not be completely accurate, but if you use it at the same time every day it should give you fairly consistent results which can be used to guage your improvement. Hopefully your trainer is having you do a mix of weight lifting as well as cardio, even if your main goal is to lose weight. Gaining muscle mass will improve your metabolism, help lower that body fat % and most important, make you feel better overall. Good luck and stick with it!
:cheers:
Chris
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Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup. It's a killer, man.
High Fructose Corn Syrup isn't corn syrup. They take corn starch and run it thru a few chemicals and enzymes to convert it into a glucose/fructose syrup.
Glucose is a sugar that every cell in your body can metabolize.
Fructose, OTOH, is not. Your liver has to break it down.
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Even if I could manage eatting right, I think I would have a hard time getting on a good sleep schedule.
Same here. New baby + 50 hour work week + non-stop weekend housework = 0 sleep
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I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days. After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.
That's an interesting way to word that. ;D
I agree with most of this stuff, though I'm not especially worried about fats. I don't think they're especially dangerous (aside from trans fats, which should send you running for the hills). I think sugar is the main thing, and I don't just mean the obvious stuff. Practically all pre-made food in America has sugar added to it. you gotta try to avoid this. As people have mentioned, start with soda. I have a very healthy diet, and have for the last 9 years. It started when I was 19 years old and made the conscious decision that I was going to cut soda out of my diet (I actually decided that I already disliked the taste, but was being tricked into thinking I liked it by carbonation -- let a soda go flat and drink it and tell me it isn't like drinking straight syrup, like the stuff they flavor lattes with at Starbucks). Anyway, I switched cold-turkey to water, and within days I found that I had considerably more energy all through the day, rather than having less thanks to the lack of caffein. It also didn't take too long for the thought of soda to become repulsive to me. Not drinking soda today requires the exact same amount of willpower for me as not drinking the juice that I drain from a can of tuna after opening it. I know I could if I wanted to, but the thought doesn't even cross my mind. It has no appeal to me.
Here's the best part, though. A coke has some god-awful equivalent of like 12 teaspoons of sugar in a single can. That's a lot of ---smurfing--- sugar. Once you cut that out of your diet for long enough that you stop craving it, your body makes some other serious changes, and one of those, is it stops craving sugar altogether. Anymore I eat VERY VERY VERY little candy, cookies, cake, ice cream, etc. I just don't feel like having them most of the time. It pisses my wife off, cos she'll be like, "Let's stop and get ice cream cones." And I'll say, "Okay. I'll probably just have a bite or two of yours." And she's like, "Nevermind, I don't want one anymore," cos it makes her feel fat. But I can't help it. I just don't feel like eating that much ice cream.
I love it. The only change I've made to my diet for health reasons, EVER, was replacing soda with water. All the other changes simply followed automatically, with no effort or willpower on my part whatsoever.
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A month ago I switched from regular to diet soda. I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days. After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.
I wasn't fat, but now I'm in better shape for summer.
You must be an exception where drinking diet soda does help (still).
Diet Soda Drinkers Gain Weight (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/13/health/webmd/main701408.shtml)
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I didn't read the whole article, but one immediate suspicion I have is that they are mixing up cause and effect. Since regular cola tastes better than diet cola, the only people, for the most part, who drink diet are people who switched from regular because they were fat or getting fat. In this respect, it stands to reason that you would find a much higher incidence of obesity with diet soda drinkers than regular soda drinkers. They are likely drinking diet soda because they are obese, rather than the other way around.
Or, on the other hand, maybe I should have actually read the article before responding.
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Or, on the other hand, maybe I should have actually read the article before responding.
Well the article is confusing. First they say that diet soda itself is not necessarily the cause of obesity, but maybe a sign of people being obese (ie you drink it when you are fat). Later it explains how diet soda can make the body crave for real sugar and thus how in fact it might cause obesity.
BTW they started the test with normal weight persons and checked their weight gain over a few years. It's not like they took all the fatties and counted the ones drinking diet soda vs regular soda.
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BTW they started the test with normal weight persons and checked their weight gain over a few years. It's not like they took all the fatties and counted the ones drinking diet soda vs regular soda.
Okay, that makes sense, then. I should have assummed that they wouldn't be that stupid.
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Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup. It's a killer, man.
High Fructose Corn Syrup isn't corn syrup. They take corn starch and run it thru a few chemicals and enzymes to convert it into a glucose/fructose syrup.
Glucose is a sugar that every cell in your body can metabolize.
Fructose, OTOH, is not. Your liver has to break it down.
Usually, corn syrup is just simply diluted High Fructose Corn Syrup. They usually dilute with Glucose, but it's cheaper to always start with a very highly concentrated fructose syrup and dilute down to whatever concentration is needed.
I actually wrote an article about this subject last year. The food industry is not forced to differentiate between high fructose and just plain old corn syrup in a very distinct way, if I'm remembering correctly. You won't get glucose syrup out of corn products, since glucose is sugar from vegetable sources, for example sugar beets. And, you're right that glucose is better, since it doesn't do that "metabolic shunting" thing where the fructose bypasses the stomach and causes problems for the liver and heart.
Also, it should be noted that metabolic shunting only happens with purified fructose. Fructose in it's "natural" form has fiber and other things that help to keep it in the stomach, where it can be broken down without all the nasty side effects.
There are still doctors and nutritionists who claim that sugar is sugar, so I'm glad that this information is getting spread around more and more.
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And watch carbs, as they are practically sugar the second they hit your tongue. I'm not talking about Atkins or some rot like that, but keep an eye on em. This includes beer. DRINK LIGHT BEER ONLY! And try to keep it to one or two beers per night. Start drinking more water. Heinekin Light is pretty good for a light beer, IMO. Give it a try.
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In my experience, if you want to lose weight, beer has to go. None of the light beer only crap. I have never been able to drop weight with beer on the menu, not in any amount or any type. In fact, alcohol in general has to be limited extensively because of the metabolic depression it brings on, not only while you're drunk but for at least the day following.
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Absolutely. No beer is clearly better. It just seems like a sacrifice that is not worth it for many people, and could potentially kill the entire diet. For example, I do not eat foods with hydrogenated oil in them. I have cut them out of my diet 100%. Well, 99%. There is no Nutella alternative, and Nutella has hydrogenated oil in it. It's just too damned good to give up.
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Beer is just raw bad calories... on a limited caloric intake, if one wants to waste enough to have a couple beers, it's hard to find enough other raw carbs to cut. It's no different than eating half a loaf of bread for no reason, there's just no room on a cutting diet. If a person can't do that they're probably not going to succeed anyway. It has happened to me on more than one attempt.
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Absolutely. No beer is clearly better. It just seems like a sacrifice that is not worth it for many people, and could potentially kill the entire diet. For example, I do not eat foods with hydrogenated oil in them. I have cut them out of my diet 100%. Well, 99%. There is no Nutella alternative, and Nutella has hydrogenated oil in it. It's just too damned good to give up.
Awesome, and I feel your pain about Nutella. The crazy thing is that it's not made with hydrogenated oil in Europe. I guess they send us the export version, which is, naturally, crappier to suit the American lifestyle.
:angry:
*Edit* If you have an Aldi supermarket nearby, then they usually have a non-hydrogenated Belgian Nutella alternative that's really comparable. I think it's called Choceux or Choceur.
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It's no different than eating half a loaf of bread for no reason . . .
God, I just burst out laughing when I read that . . .
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Beer - liquid bread.
Sometimes I wonder, though, does that make crap like Budweiser liquid Wonder Bread?
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Beer - liquid bread.
Sometimes I wonder, though, does that make crap like Budweiser liquid Wonder Bread?
:laugh2:
Yeah, I'm not against beer that's been properly brewed, but then I don't hit the sauce very often, despite my homebrewing hobby.
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Damn I'm thankful for good genes. Life almost wouldn't be worth living without carby Italian food... :'(
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Funny was just reading hacker's diet (http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/)
Basically what this guy says is that forget everything you heard. The secret is to burn more calories than you eat. (I bet you were not expecting that ;) )
He says you can either run for 1 hour and burn 350 Calories . Or skip the Cheeseburger.
Interesting read. The whole book (short easy to read ) is online at
http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/
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Pinballjim, yes, I am in pain denying myself the pleasures of Corn Syrup and Trans Fats. Oh, and let's not forget the infinite joy of smoking ... ::)
I think cancer, obesity or an early heart attack probably would qualify as risks well worth minimizing.
Yes, Lokki, that diet is way too simple. Calories are not equally "burned" by the body as fuel. There are enzymes, bacteria, acids etc. that complicate the process, not to mention a lot of other science that isn't even fully understood about how the body actually metabolizes food and stores energy. It's true that excercise can be the great balancing factor against many unhealthy choices, but counting calories is really a waste of time.
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Absolutely three things:
1. metabolic typing.
2. eat whole, organic foods.
3. body-weight calisthenics (a la THE ROYAL COURT).
Anything else just can't compete.
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2. eat whole, organic foods.
Does that mean that I have to eat an entire watermelon in one sitting. Or a cow?
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2. eat whole, organic foods.
Does that mean that I have to eat an entire watermelon in one sitting. Or a cow?
I think he means unprocessed, local foods.
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Absolutely three things:
1. metabolic typing.
Are you serious? That's done by quacks and frauds to make easy money. There is no evidence of it working at all.
I don't know "royal court", but what I can find about it on the innurnet makes it sound a bit quacky too.
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Healthy eating, regular exercise. Thats all it is 4 simple words, easier said than done of course.
Ignore the handheld devices, as mentioned previously they're wildly inaccurate. Weigh yourself on a weekly basis first thing in the morning. Remember that if you're on regieme that builds muscle that muscle is 3 times heavier than fat, so although your trimming down, your overall weight will not indicate this accurately. The more muscle you have, the more calories burnt to maintain it.
Also, don't pay too much attention to charts. They indicate averages only. For example, I'm of a heavy build shoulders wise and cannot gauge ideal weight ot BMI using standard examples. Pay more attention to how you feel overall and your levels of stamina and energy.
A quick way of losing a few pounds and feel better is to drink at least 2-3 litres of cold water per day (spread it out over the duration if possible). It releases fluid your body naturally stores, cleans out toxins, helps clear your skin, and if the waters ice cold your body will burn calories regulating temperature.
Eat a breakfast and then small amounts more often (I lost a good bit of weight on the south beach diet, eat 5 times a day as basis). Most successful weight loss that stays off comes from a combination of routine eating of sensible food and lifestyle change/management.
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Dexter,
I generally agree with most of what you recommend, but that ice cold water thing is an interesting proposition. I don't think it would be wise to force your body to work unnecessarily. For example, you activate your liver, heart and a bunch of other organs by consuming caffeine, but the increased heart rate etc. is not thought to be good for your organs in the long run.
There is no concensus there and I realize that, but I just thought I would propose the alternative viewpoint that, as another example, some people believe that fasting is good for the body, since it frees up energy that would normally be used for digestion and general maintenance for things like detoxification, mental energy (according to some) and also, controversially, better sleep, since more of the processes can shut down and you will generally rest/meditate better.
So, I'm not saying I know, just that I've heard the opposite, that ice water is an unnecessary strain on the body by forcing it to spend energy regulating temperature. And that kind of energy consumption does nothing for well-being or general health.
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I'd say weighing once a week is too often for the regular person, especially women. I'd go with two weeks, maybe three. A person can really mess with their head by working hard for a week to find they've gained half a lb. Poor women, they have that bad, they can work their ass off, lose 2lb of fat, step on the scale and BOOM 4lb gained in half a week because of menstrual cycling.
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It's even worse than that for women when they begin working out. They'll dip then actually gain a little weight as the fat is replaced by muscle. That's why I advocate not even using a scale- use a mirror. Which is more important- what you weigh or how you look?
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A number is a lot easier to honestly track than the mirror. People lie to themselves when looking in the mirror.
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So the scales speak but the mirror lies?
I'd go with both actually - especially one of the BMI scales if possible. Not that percentages are always encouraging, but if nothing shows progress you might get pissed and work out a bit harder next time.
Actually, measure what you do at / outside the gym working out too. Your weights / reps / rests / runs / mileage / etc. Seeing progress there should make everything else OK.
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So the scales speak but the mirror lies?
No. The person lies.
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The trick for me to stay in a good fitness routine is to find a partner who can be just as dedicated as me. You can push him on his lazy days and he can do the same on yours. Plus, it's just a lot nicer to have someone to talk to and perfect for lifting weights to have a rest between sets that lasts just a bit longer than it takes your partner to do his set.
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Absolutely three things:
1. metabolic typing.
Are you serious? That's done by quacks and frauds to make easy money. There is no evidence of it working at all.
I don't know "royal court", but what I can find about it on the innurnet makes it sound a bit quacky too.
Metabolic typing is one of only two systems that comprehensively address how the body functions, digestively, based on a person's genetics. Either of these will work for ANYBODY. As you can easily google both of these and try them out without having to spend any money, it's very likely that these accurate.
Training: I guarantee, GUARANTEE, that I could have you do ONE exercise that would do everything and anything all the lifting of weights and cardio can do, plus things they don't, and have you panting like a dog from exhaustion in, perhaps, 5 mins. But, likely, 2. With no gear.
Wanna put your money where your mouth is?
Shmokes and Ken: local organic isn't necessarily better than non-local, though it might likely be. Also, whole foods are ones that are the least processed. Nuts that aren't shelled are hardly processed, for example. Raw, but shelled, nuts are a little more processed. Shelled and roasted and salted are a little more. You get the idea.
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Absolutely three things:
1. metabolic typing.
Are you serious? That's done by quacks and frauds to make easy money. There is no evidence of it working at all.
I don't know "royal court", but what I can find about it on the innurnet makes it sound a bit quacky too.
Metabolic typing is one of only two systems that comprehensively address how the body functions, digestively, based on a person's genetics. Either of these will work for ANYBODY. As you can easily google both of these and try them out without having to spend any money, it's very likely that these accurate.
It's with the long questionnaire and then the computer determines what type you are, right? I remember that from a while ago (IIRC quite a long while actually), when they tried to sell it in the Netherlands. They started a big campaign, attracted some celebs to promote for them, but then they were exposed by the consumer TV programs overhere. The celebs started gaining weight again after a few weeks, a new hype diet came along and I never heard of them since. Till now then.
The guy who made it up had a doctorate in some obscure field, but they kept calling him "doctor" all the time. In the Netherlands "doctor" usually means "medical doctor" (I guess int the US it offers the same confusion). They basically tried to pass him off as a medical doctor. Which he's not. That tactic really did not do them much good and it almost from the start made the "doctor" look like a quack.
Metabolic typing operates the same way any diet does. That is by making people simply eat less when they are following a diet. It only work for a short while. There is no evidence of it actually working the way they claim it does.
I have no doubt there are exercises using only bodyweight that can make one pant. I'm also sure it will work fine up to a point, just like Pilates or Tae Bo. The whole thing just sounds like it will only work for a few weeks. Good for people who buy the book/DVD, try it for a while and then go for the next hype. Ultimately you will become to strong to benefit from the exercise other than for cardio/endurance training. Speeding up exercises to increase the load sounds like an injury waiting to happen too.
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There's no doubt that just following a few simple rules in diet helps weight control:
a) reduce refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup, etc. as much as possible
b) eat lots of vegetables
c) avoid trans fat.
The rest of it with the macrobiotic foods, metabolic typing, and whatnot are gimmicks. Gimmick diets like Quackins (Atkins) just contribute to yo-yo weight loss, which is worse than just getting fat and staying fat.
I'm also sure that doing the isometric or body weight calisthenics helps too. But it's not necessarily the only way or the right way. Seems like those exercises are more for building cardiovascular endurance than for building muscle.
IMO diet without exercise is wrong because the body's metabolism will adjust to the lesser amount of food and because muscle is lost along with fat without being rebuilt. Exercise without diet, which is what I'm doing, :( is much better because the built muscle burns calories, thus weight loss will occur, albeit much more slowly than diet plus exercise.
Diet plus exercise is really the only way to consistently lose weight and keep it off.
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Everyone I've trained who has determined their type accurately (not all are the same type) and have continued with the conditioning, have gotten into/stayed in superb health. On the building muscle/slash only good for endurance thing: Matt Furey is 5' 8". He got up to 238 lbs of lean muslce by way of three things: conditioning, diet, and mind. Also, speed is not necessary to develop endurance. The right breathing alone can develop endurance that would blow your mind.
Metabolic typing normalises your body chemistry. This enables one to naturally evolve out of food addictions, as well as enables your body to tell you what to eat that keeps it that way. A homeostasis.
Here are some pics I took last night of me. It's a $20 camera and only one 26w flourescent bulb in the room. Now, I'm not saying I'm all beefcake. I do look in pretty decent shape, though. Considering that I haven't lifted weights in over four (4) years, nore done any cardio in that same time, AND haven't trained at all for the last five months, but just kept the same dietary conditions (albeit a lower intake as my body didn't need as much due to lack of training), I think I look pretty DAMN good.
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Wow, somebody quickly add NSFW to the thread title :P
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I found another picture of someone who use only on a "special diet" to stay in shape:
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For anyone interested in weight-lifting, check out the book "The New Rules of Lifting" - a guy at the gym put me on to the book and told me it would change the way I view working out. Just my 2 cents, but the book is definitely worth checking out and I put on 8 lbs of muscle in 2 months changing my routine to this book's.
Book link below.
Jim
http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Maximum-Muscle/dp/1583332383/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0257258-9398509?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178407880&sr=8-1
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For anyone interested in weight-lifting, check out the book "The New Rules of Lifting" - a guy at the gym put me on to the book and told me it would change the way I view working out. Just my 2 cents, but the book is definitely worth checking out and I put on 8 lbs of muscle in 2 months changing my routine to this book's.
Book link below.
Jim
http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lifting-Maximum-Muscle/dp/1583332383/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0257258-9398509?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1178407880&sr=8-1
Ha, thats pretty cool that you just recommended that. My brother-in-law is Alywn Cosgrove (one of the authors of that book).
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Well, you're a brave man, shorthair, to post pictures like that in this crowd. I think it's pretty hard to tell how in shape someone is from photos like this, though. I know from personal experience that you can look decently strong/in shape and be actually very strong/in shape.
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AtomSmasher,
Tell your brother-in-law that the book is outstanding. He's got quite a following at a few Atlanta, GA gyms - word spread fast about the book.
Again, I highly recommend it - some of the advice in the book goes against "common sense" but it's the science behind the explanations that sold me on trying the program.
Jim
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PBJ: you're a two-hander, eh? I like to switch off, myself. {more} Seriously, though, what do you mean?
Ah, Ken, it's nothing. I enjoy presenting this kind of information. It's equally fascinating how people receive it. It doesn't ultimately matter what kind of evidence is presented to whomever it is. If their psycho-spirital state is against it, they won't let it in.
I was in the Corps, so know about hours and hours, literally of cardio. I've lifted three times, too. But always since getting out, I wanted something that would make me 'cock strong'. Then one day I was at the gym and this guy came up to me asking where I got my shirt, if I was in the military (I'd been out for 9 years), etc. We got to talking and he showed me the book Combat Conditioning. I thought, 'this is it'. I took it home and my girlfriend at the time said some of the exercises were similar to the yoga immortality exercises. I said, 'yep, this is it'. She's also the one who turned me onto Metabolic Typing. And when Furey's Gamma Fitness came out, my buddy turned me onto that, too. (As well as Mike Mahler and Kettlebells, and all kinds of other things, though I prefer not being tied down to gear.) All these things I didn't even look for. They just came to me.
By default, I NEVER watch tv or read the paper, let alone think they can provide me with any fitness information. The allopathic establishment's adversary, the homeopathic movement (of which things like CC and MT are a part), only when it finally infects mainstream culture, will you see things of it in every day experience of the average person.
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Thanks for wearing pants. :cheers:
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By default, I NEVER watch tv or read the paper, let alone think they can provide me with any fitness information. The allopathic establishment's adversary, the homeopathic movement (of which things like CC and MT are a part), only when it finally infects mainstream culture, will you see things of it in every day experience of the average person.
Yeah, you are on the cutting edge of dieting and fitness exercises. Metabolic typing has been ignored (or let it in and vomited it out) by the dumb masses for what, 30 or 40 years? It's about time someone finally stood op and took it seriously.
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Thanks for wearing pants. :cheers:
Ooooh, coom noo. Ah noo ya wanted ta see thi short n curlies...if ah had any.
patrickl: it's not even a matter of that.
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But I'd rather drink that than the swill that passes for coffee at the office, and I don't know if I want to go through caffeine withdrawal at this time.
Switch yourself to green tea. Half the caffeine as coffee and far better for you. I've done very little to get in shape other than switch from soda to green tea and I used to be a bigger fatass than I am now (about 25-30 lbs lost now since late October/November). I probably took in twice as much caffeine as you did each day and the change to tea has not been difficult at all.
As for the rest, it appears you've picked up on the "work out and watch your food" for losing weight. I'm looking at improving my diet and adding some weightlifting. My father-in-law dumped this book on me and I was looking at this a while ago - here you can find some decent recipes and some ideas for eating during the day, some recipes for additional stuff to help you drop some weight AND assist you with your workout routine, as well as some fairly good info that jive with what you've already been given in this thread (use Firefox with Adblock!):
http://www.menshealth.com/cda/topicpage.do?site=MensHealth&channel=weight.loss&category=abs.diet
Some of the articles (Abs Diet articles, specifically) should also seem like familiar info to you - it's what your trainer has been telling you. I count my abs as one of the saving graces for my back. I'm not what you'd look at and say I'm all kinds of "in shape", but I've always done some ab work and my job works 'em out involuntarily, otherwise I fully believe I'd have serious back problems. I'm looking to eliminate that, as well as the heart attack risk, and the wife is looking to partner up with me on this, so I've got a helper and a person to be "accountable" to. Good luck to you, and I hope you find some of that info useful.
For anyone else looking at that, the Abs Diet isn't a diet, per se, it's changing what you eat, and adding a workout plan. They also WANT you to "cheat" once a week, and if you decide to start it, the first two weeks of exercise are optional, if you wanna see what changing your diet for two weeks can do. Small step, but it might change your mind. If the book weren't given to me for free, I was still planning to give it a shot - E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G in the book is on the website, and you can pore through it online to see if it makes sense and what's all involved.
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Switch yourself to green tea. Half the caffeine as coffee and far better for you. I've done very little to get in shape other than switch from soda to green tea and I used to be a bigger fatass than I am now (about 25-30 lbs lost now since late October/November). I probably took in twice as much caffeine as you did each day and the change to tea has not been difficult at all.
Kind of unlrelated but what green tea do you drink? Do you brew it? Instant?
I've been drinking Instant green tea for the last couple of months. (XtraGreen) and have been feeling great.
(No Weight loss, and I did not drink Coffee before, Used to drink diet Coke)
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Switch yourself to green tea. Half the caffeine as coffee and far better for you. I've done very little to get in shape other than switch from soda to green tea and I used to be a bigger fatass than I am now (about 25-30 lbs lost now since late October/November). I probably took in twice as much caffeine as you did each day and the change to tea has not been difficult at all.
Kind of unlrelated but what green tea do you drink? Do you brew it? Instant?
I've been drinking Instant green tea for the last couple of months. (XtraGreen) and have been feeling great.
(No Weight loss, and I did not drink Coffee before, Used to drink diet Coke)
Check your "instant" green tea. I've seen several that are simply "green tea flavoring" and similar phrases. I brew mine. Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6. It's got 180 bags. The equivalent if I bought it at the grocery store would cost me $18-25.
I fill up a tea pot with water, throw it on the burner until it whistles (nice reminder). I just barely cover the bottom of a gallon pitcher with honey (it's about an eighth of a cup), dump the hot water in to dissolve the honey, add the tea bags and steep for 2-3 minutes. Remove the bags (squeeze all the tea goodness out of the bags), fill up the rest of the pitcher with cold water, and refrigerate. Next day, I fill up a container with tea and take it off to work with me. I drink at least half a gallon a day.
The wife was drinking the tea for a while, but hated doing the teapot thing, so she went to Goodwill and bought an iced-tea brewer and threw the bags in the brew chamber. Worked okay, but seemed to make a weaker tea to me. At least I only threw $4 at that experiment ;D
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Buddabing: actually, there is. Except for yoga, which descends from elements of the royal court (Indian wrestlers and Tibetan monks have been doing hindu push-ups and hindu squats and bridging, amongst other things, for millenia), there are no other exercises as comprehensive and effective as the Royal Court.
Why? Two things: multi-tissue activation (connective as well as muscular), and dynamic stretching. Even with low-impact, low weight weight-training, the muscles are still largely the tissues addressed, the motion involved is linear ( = not very functional), and there is required stretching afterwards. Equally, cardio isn't very functional cos it doesn't address strength, degrades the connective tissues, and requires a lot of time.
Spending 15 minutes doing, say, two sets of the royal court, without doing it quickly, will do all of those things: strength (and muscle, if vanity is your thing), endurance and stamina, and flexibility. However, as I mentioned above, you could do one exercise - that being bear crawls - for a few to several minutes, at a medium-slow pace, if you can handle it, and satisfy these criteria, anyway.
Lastly, on diet, I disagree. Partly, as my post above confirms, diet is all important. But to add to this, I give the following: the second time I was lifting, I got to a point where I had a bunch of muscle - but I also was getting a little full-looking. I hadn't been doing cardio, but was doing about an hour of lifting, three times a week. I added a half-hour of cardio. No change in weight or look after a month. What was the problem? I was eatin too much ---goshdarn--- baked goods. Oh, sure, they were whole grains an all. Don't make no difference. Then, some time later, I reduced my training. I also reduced my grain intake. I lost weight.
The other thing is that if you don't nutrify your tissues - and the most important here are your internal organs - you'll run your body down. And, like I mentioned, diet determines your mental state. Give your body what it genetically is predisposed to metabolise, and it normalises. You don't even have to make an effort at this point, cos your body is satisfied.
PS: you might be interested in what my intake is.
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Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6.
I haven't had Bigelow green tea, but their Earl Grey tastes like ass. Check out Celestial Seasonings, if you have the chance. I rarely come across an Earl Grey that even comes close to Celestial Seasonings.
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PS: you might be interested in what my intake is.
Might I? Might I really?
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Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6.
I haven't had Bigelow green tea, but their Earl Grey tastes like ass. Check out Celestial Seasonings, if you have the chance. I rarely come across an Earl Grey that even comes close to Celestial Seasonings.
Celestial Seasonings also doesn't use that annoying paper tag and string ::) I've tried some of their other teas and they DO make better teas in general, but I just can't pass up the savings...Lipton, oddly, makes a pretty decent green tea too, but again, the money...oh the stinkin' money!
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PS: you might be interested in what my intake is.
Not really. You are from California, right, so you probably eat a lot of tofu and bean sprouts. We Texans eat steak! :)
You are a single man and from your pictures you appear to be in your twenties. That is quite different from my circumstances. You basically are free to pursue whatever diet and exercise regime you want, and from your posts I think you enjoy exercising. I am married with two teenagers and am over 40. We have to provide food that the children will actually eat, and there are a lot of demands on my time. If I do not make specific appointments with the trainer, I won't go to the gym. Exercise is not in my genes or in my list of things I enjoy doing.
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Check your "instant" green tea. I've seen several that are simply "green tea flavoring" and similar phrases. I brew mine. Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6. It's got 180 bags. The equivalent if I bought it at the grocery store would cost me $18-25.
If the man loves anything, it's a giant mass of teabags.
All of the theories and "programs" and everything behind fitness is cool, but really, it is very very very simple:
Eat clean and in moderation and get plenty of exercise. It doesn't matter what food it is if it's real food in moderation. It doesn't matter what the exercise is so long as you do it well and often. That's it. Eat clean, moderately, and go out and do stuff.
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Celestial Seasonings also doesn't use that annoying paper tag and string ::)
That's hilarious. That's actually the only thing I hate about CS. I make tea one cup at a time and I like the string. I order teas directly from them by the case (six boxes), just so I can get the food service version which has the strings :)
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Check your "instant" green tea. I've seen several that are simply "green tea flavoring" and similar phrases. I brew mine. Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6. It's got 180 bags. The equivalent if I bought it at the grocery store would cost me $18-25.
this is the Tea I drink, I was asking what type you drink because most of the brewed ones I tried taste pretty bad. I have tried the Earl Gray and did not like it.
http://www.teatech.com/Product/Instant%20Green%20Tea.htm
* Fast absorbing instant green tea that provides beneficial elements from green tea
* 300 mg of antioxidants (Polyphenols) per serving - equals 8 cups of most brewed teas
* Great natural fresh tea taste and color - no artificial flavors, colors or preservatives
* 100% of daily value of Vitamin C per serving
* 50% less caffeine than most coffees - only 45 mg per serving
* Great cold or hot, just add water
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Half the caffeine? I'd end up drinking 5 times as much and ODing on Vitamin C.
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PS: you might be interested in what my intake is.
Not really. You are from California, right, so you probably eat a lot of tofu and bean sprouts. We Texans eat steak! :)
You are a single man and from your pictures you appear to be in your twenties. That is quite different from my circumstances. You basically are free to pursue whatever diet and exercise regime you want, and from your posts I think you enjoy exercising. I am married with two teenagers and am over 40. We have to provide food that the children will actually eat, and there are a lot of demands on my time. If I do not make specific appointments with the trainer, I won't go to the gym. Exercise is not in my genes or in my list of things I enjoy doing.
Always assuming. No questions. I'm a few days short of 36, man. I am single. However, I don't eat any soybean products, and discourage their use, particularly for females. All of my meals are animal protein, the majority of them beef. When I'm traning heavy, I eat at least 3/4 lb of beef/other kind of meat, sometimes more. I eat a fair amount of green vegetables. I eat chocolate and ice cream whenever I wish; but I don't buy from the regular store, and I only buy good treats; check out Trader Joe's, Wild Oats, Sunflower markets, Sprouts, and Whole Foods - though I mostly shop at TJ's. I don't eat grains (this includes rice) or potatoes very often. The family excuse is just that. Kids don't need chips and candy and soda and cookies and bread and juice. If you feed them according to their metabolic type, and likely they'll be similar to yours, they'll not want that ---Cleveland steamer---. Same for you. (So, no Chad, it's not that simple...but simpler than people think.)
I enjoy using my body. Do you have rampant sexual energy? Do you remember what it was like as a kid being able to pretty much do anything physically you wanted?...and want to, again? Pretty simple, conditioning. Which you can do at home...and with the kids...even with the wife. No gear. No gym necessary. I train right out front of my place in the grass. Or inside during inclement weather, but all I need is a 6'x6' space.
Go to Matt Furey's site and look at many of the people over 40 - in one case a Marine Colonel, which he couldn't get away with if he was lying - who are in the Furey Inner Circle. Oh, and no (heheheh) I ain't from or live in Cali.
Also, check out this link:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler19.htm (Mahler is HEAVY into kettlebells, now, particularly as he's a certified instructor taught by Pavel Tatsouline, but he still does some conditioning.)
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Celestial Seasonings also doesn't use that annoying paper tag and string ::)
That's hilarious. That's actually the only thing I hate about CS. I make tea one cup at a time and I like the string. I order teas directly from them by the case (six boxes), just so I can get the food service version which has the strings :)
;D I make it by the gallon, and the strings are pretty much useless. Either there's not enough hot water, so I have to dump the bag, string and all, in the pitcher, or I have to add some hot water from the faucet. Enough of those stupid strings break on me that I just stopped adding hot water and just dumped the whole mess in the pitcher.
Do you order from them on their website? I'd be interested in ordering from 'em if I can get a better deal than what they sell it for in the stores.
Check your "instant" green tea. I've seen several that are simply "green tea flavoring" and similar phrases. I brew mine. Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6. It's got 180 bags. The equivalent if I bought it at the grocery store would cost me $18-25.
this is the Tea I drink, I was asking what type you drink because most of the brewed ones I tried taste pretty bad. I have tried the Earl Gray and did not like it.
I gotcha. I only mentioned the info above because my wife brought some "instant" crap home, and not only did it have "flavorings" instead of tea, but sugar was the first ingredient listed, which is what I was trying to avoid. Brewing tea needs some testing. Some tastes like ass if you follow the directions, and it also makes a difference of where it came from. My local grocery store has their own version of green tea, and I found out it's got a bunch of other crap in it and it ends up tasting burnt no matter how I make it, so I ended up ditching 3/4 of a box.
Green tea happens to have all that good stuff yours mentions and has a crapload of benefits that other types may or may not have, and usually in equal/larger quantities. I hate hot tea. Can't stand it. Cold, no worries. A mix of black/orange, iced and with some sugar....jeez, I'd slug down a gallon right now if it were here! I used to drop 4-5 packets of Splenda in the gallon to sweeten it up a touch for me, but I slowly cut that out, and now it's just the tea and the little bit of honey, and I'm good to go.
As for the caffeine, I guess it depends on who you listen to. For instance, I've heard that a cup of coffee contains anywhere between 60-80 mg of caffeine, but it's widely said that green tea contains half the caffeine of coffee, and I indeed have noticed that I don't feel the same as when I drink an equal amount of soda (or coffee). I'm fairly sensitive to caffeine, and can't have any after 3 p.m. or I'm easily awake until 2-4 in the morning - not so with the green tea now that my schedule is getting back to normal again.
Check your "instant" green tea. I've seen several that are simply "green tea flavoring" and similar phrases. I brew mine. Sam's Club has a H-U-G-E box of Bigelow green tea for like $5-6. It's got 180 bags. The equivalent if I bought it at the grocery store would cost me $18-25.
If the man loves anything, it's a giant mass of teabags.
There's nothing good coming out of this thread for me, is there? ;D
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What's coming out of this thread sure beats what's cuming out of those teabags.
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What a nut. You're just having a ball today, aren't you? It's like you have a whole sack of jokes...
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What a nut. You're just having a ball today, aren't you? It's like you have a whole sack of jokes...
Objection yer honor. He's obviously leading the witness
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I'm working the ol' humor speedbags.
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I just asked my brother-in-law (Alywn Cosgrove) about metabolic typing and combat conditioning. He knows more about exercising and dieting then everyone here combined and has written several books on the subject (including the one previously mentioned in this thread.) Google him if you're curious of his credentials on this subject.
stuff in brackets is stuff I added
In regards to metabolic typing:
Rachel [my sister] is certified in it actually -- she's the best person to ask. [I will ask her about it later]
she doesn't use it too much. [referring to the nutrition programs people hire her to make for them]
it's premise is that - just as you have different favorite foods - and different genetics - ancestry etc - that you respond better to different macronutrient splits. I.E. Scottish people tended to develop close to water - so fish was a high percentage of their diet , an eskimo would be primarily fat and protein, an American Indian who lived in the plains would have been raised on mainly carbohydrate.
It has something to it, but I think the world has evolved a lot so it's not too valid.
In regards to Combat Conditioning, I referred to it as Mike Mahler's Combat Conditioning in the email I sent my brother-in-law since the article shorthair linked to was written by him, which explains the beginning of this quote:
I know Mike Mahler pretty well. He used to live in Santa Monica but lives in Vegas now -- he contributed to the liftstrong.com (http://www.liftstrong.com) project. He's a "kettlebell" guy -- looks like cannonballs with a handle.
I think it was Matt Furey who wrote Combat Conditioning. It sucks -- it's really just bodyweight exercises that he did when he was a wrestler (he was an All American I think) but Furey is an internet marketing genius. I just bought some stuff of his as regards information marketing.
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Hmm, that's an interesting description of metabolic typing. It reminds me that most of the population of the world and all other mammals stop producing lactase, the enzyme that breaks down milk protein, sometime around weaning. But, despite that, most Northern Europeans and several other cultures have the relatively unique ability to continue to produce lactase throughout their whole lives. It's funny because lactose intolerance after weaning is actually the norm and I guess that would be a good example of how different subsets of humans have evolved different ways of surviving/producing energy.
As far as combat conditioning, the great thing about excercise is that so many different types of excercises work so well. The real challenge is mental. That's why it pays to have a partner or a coach or a guy on the Internet marketing his product who can pump you up. Speaking of which, I love the movie Pumping Iron. It's really hilarious and it really gets me in the mood to workout.
Arnold sits on the couch, describes the pump as being like an orgasm and says: "So can you imagine what kind of heaven I am in? I go to the gym and I am coming. I come home and I am coming. I am coming all the time." This is also the movie where he smokes a joint at the end.
:laugh2:
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I gotcha. I only mentioned the info above because my wife brought some "instant" crap home, and not only did it have "flavorings" instead of tea, but sugar was the first ingredient listed, which is what I was trying to avoid. Brewing tea needs some testing. Some tastes like ass if you follow the directions, and it also makes a difference of where it came from. My local grocery store has their own version of green tea, and I found out it's got a bunch of other crap in it and it ends up tasting burnt no matter how I make it, so I ended up ditching 3/4 of a box.
Thanks for the tips I will give Brewed tea another try.
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That's weird that Mike would move to Vegas. But I don't know him that well. He's always moving upward, spiritually, I think, so go figure. However, why would conditioning suck? What does 'it's really just bodyweight exercises that he did when he was a wrestler' mean? Has he tried them?...like, as a serious routine?...let alone studied them? He doesn't give any qualifiers. He also doesn't reflect on Mahler's article on them. That Furey is a marketing genius has nothing to do with CC - except insofar as he was able to bring the product to market. I at least gave technical qualifiers on why it's good. Cosgrove doesn't even give a vague alternative. But that's why he makes money at it. Hmmm..... Also, and Furey talks about this, why would being good in one thing mean it doesn't translate to other things?...except the wrestling - and martial arts and grappling - came before the internet marketing, etc...
These are serious questions.
As for metabolic typing, if we look at how long things take to evolve: hundreds of millenia as meat eaters, some millenia of gradual introduction of dairy and agriculture, respectively, which shows why there are so many protein types, only a few decades of garbage food culture.... Evolution is against him.
Oop, except look what I, just looking around for a minute, found on Mahler's site:
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/cosgrove1.html
Your body is a barbell
No dumbbells, no barbells, no problem
By Alwyn Cosgrove
In fact when you think about it, the only reason to ever use external load (i.e. weights) is because your bodyweight is not enough resistance.
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Well, I like Earl Gray tea and this tea called Constant Complement that has orange rind in it. Green Tea is for tourists trying to look cool, or maybe it's a developed taste like people who can drink black coffee.
As for typing, I still like The Typing of the Dead.
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That's weird that Mike would move to Vegas. But I don't know him that well. He's always moving upward, spiritually, I think, so go figure. However, why would conditioning suck? What does 'it's really just bodyweight exercises that he did when he was a wrestler' mean? Has he tried them?...like, as a serious routine?...let alone studied them? He doesn't give any qualifiers. He also doesn't reflect on Mahler's article on them. That Furey is a marketing genius has nothing to do with CC - except insofar as he was able to bring the product to market. I at least gave technical qualifiers on why it's good. Cosgrove doesn't even give a vague alternative. But that's why he makes money at it. Hmmm..... Also, and Furey talks about this, why would being good in one thing mean it doesn't translate to other things?...except the wrestling - and martial arts and grappling - came before the internet marketing, etc...
These are serious questions.
As for metabolic typing, if we look at how long things take to evolve: hundreds of millenia as meat eaters, some millenia of gradual introduction of dairy and agriculture, respectively, which shows why there are so many protein types, only a few decades of garbage food culture.... Evolution is against him.
Oop, except look what I, just looking around for a minute, found on Mahler's site:
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/cosgrove1.html
Your body is a barbell
No dumbbells, no barbells, no problem
By Alwyn Cosgrove
In fact when you think about it, the only reason to ever use external load (i.e. weights) is because your bodyweight is not enough resistance.
I asked him if he could just quickly give me his thoughts on it, which is what he did. I'm sure he could go on and on about exactly why the book sucks, but the short version is just that it sucks. I do enjoy that fact that you think you know much more about exercising and nutrition then him, what are your qualifications on the subject again?
edit* also, you mention how he didn't reflect on the article or anything you said about it, thats because I didn't point him to the article or tell him anything you said about it. He's a busy guy which is why I only asked for his brief thoughts on the topics.
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I just got a reply from my sister on the topic of Metabolic Typing:
I took the certification to do metabolic typing and learned all about it. There is definitely something to it but basically all it means is that each person is an individual- some people do well on high protein/ high fat such as Atkins, others do well on high carb /low fat such as Vegetarian but most people when I tested them ended up right down the middle and did best on a balanced 40/30/30 type menu such as The Zone.
The other premise of the diet is whole foods- no processed foods. This is huge for most people. If people just eliminate processed junk food they will feel a lot better anyway.
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Okay, I goofed on the Mahler article part. As for MT, I wouldn't characterise it that way at all. According to MT, almost all people should eat some form of animal protein. What differentiates is the type and amount, as well as the types of fat they can consume, along with the types of carbs, though vegetable carbs are emphasised for all. Also, the types of vegetables people can eat depends. It doesn't sound like he's got it down.
I do agree with his statment on processed foods. (However, a lot of people don't know how to define that.) I also think the two articles of his I read (one was that linked) at Mahler's were keen. Neither of you have addressed the contradiction of the linked article and his statements (let alone his new book). As well, the concept of the linked article is keen - but some of the exercises are more complicated than CC, as well as requiring gear, and none are as comprehensive. Go look back at those pictures in the Mahler article, try a hindu push-up, and come tell me what you think.
As for credentials, did Einstein have credentials before he made certain discoveries? No, I bet that one'll just make you howl. Okay: did Mahler have any credentials besides his ket certification before he started training people? Big flat no. He says so, too. 'He comes from the school of hardknocks....'
The first point is: what is the most functional?
The next point is: why are you (whoever it is) sitting around making a fuss when all you have to do is get off your ass for a moment and try it? This is byoac, right?
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Okay, I goofed on the Mahler article part. As for MT, I wouldn't characterise it that way at all. According to MT, almost all people should eat some form of animal protein. What differentiates is the type and amount, as well as the types of fat they can consume, along with the types of carbs, though vegetable carbs are emphasised for all. Also, the types of vegetables people can eat depends. It doesn't sound like he's got it down.
My last reply was from my sister, who is a nutritionist with certificates and degrees in pretty much everything related to nutrition, including being certified in MT. She writes nutrition and exercise programs for a living, and I can be fairly confident she understands MT much better then you do. I'm sure you'll completely disagree with that since you just compared yourself to Einstein and seem to think your better at everything then everyone else. The funny thing is, she agrees with you that MT isn't a bogus diet, and yet you still want to argue with her.
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I sent Alywn your first response to what he said (so the reponse before the last one) and I just got an email back from him:
I said "combat conditioning" sucks.
I didn't say "Bodyweight training" sucks.
They' aren't the same thing. And he isn't able to see that I guess. Oh well...
(incidentally - I think I said this before -- Mike Mahler is a kettlebell guy -- he hasn't done "combat conditioning" since 2001). That speaks volumes.
That Furey is a marketing genius has nothing to do with CC - except insofar as he was able to bring the product to market. I at least gave technical qualifiers on why it's good. Cosgrove doesn't even give a vague alternative.
That made me laugh.
But that's why he makes money at it. Hmmm..... Also, and Furey talks about this, why would being good in one thing mean it doesn't translate to other things?...except the wrestling - and martial arts and grappling - came before the internet marketing, etc...
These are serious questions.
That made me laugh too.
Oop, except look what I, just looking around for a minute, found on Mahler's site:
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles/cosgrove1.html
Your body is a barbell
No dumbbells, no barbells, no problem
By Alwyn Cosgrove
In fact when you think about it, the only reason to ever use external load (i.e. weights) is because your bodyweight is not enough resistance.
Again he's confused bodyweight training with combat conditioning (which uses bodyweight) -- not the same thing.
Weight training is good. a ---smurf-poop--- weight training program sucks. And the fact that the second one uses the same equipment as the first does not in any way redeem it. Curves uses weights after all...
I sell a bodyweight training DVD. I've written several bodyweight training articles. Bodyweight is not the problem with combat conditioning....
For your information (but I'm sure you can't be bothered with this) combat conditioning isn't even a program. It's a book of 3 exercises and their variations - hindu push ups, hindu squats and back bridges. Progression? Do more. Increase load? Umm you can't unless you gain weight ...
I responded with,
I asked him if he could just quickly give me his thoughts on it, which is what he did. I'm sure he could go on and on about exactly why the book sucks,
Yes. I'm pretty boring like that.
but the short version is just that it sucks. I do enjoy that fact that you think you know much more about exercising and nutrition then him, what are your qualifications on the subject again?
the thing that all these guys who talk ---Cleveland steamer--- on the internet NEVER seem to get -- Rach and I make money from training people. I get paid for writing programs, and writing articles etc about training. We get paid to get people in shape fast. We use the fastest methods we know of. We don't give a ---Cleveland steamer--- what those methods are -- if combat conditioning worked better than what we do -- then that's what we'd use - because it would make us more money right?. We don't care what we use -- we use the best methods that we've found.
Combat conditioning didn't make the cut.
What's funny though is that I watched the DVD today about marketing (from Matt Furey - the guy who came up with Combat conditioning - that Mike Mahler wrote about) -- he uses his combat conditioning as an example -- and talks about how it is about 3 pages of intro and then just a bunch of exercises...one page is a photo of the exercise, the facing page is 'how to' do the exercise and that it wasn't that good - he didn't think that it would sell -- but people bought it because of his marketing skills and ability to write sales copy!
(he also speaks about his first book - the martial art of wrestling -- that didn't sell AT ALL -- until he repackaged it as an 'underground special report' -- I told you he was a genius at marketing).
Does that clear anything up for you? Even the creator of CC admits in his marketing video that he didn't think CC was good enough to sell.
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You mistake the Einstein thing, and then fixated on it. Ego. I'm not saying I know more than he does. I know I don't have the same amount of experience and such. Never said I did. As well with your sister. What I did say is CC is outstanding (and that I think he's wrong - and that he is totally wrong about the body-weight exercises vs CC thing), as well as MT not being what your sister made it out to be. I did forget to mention that there isn't a standard with MT. After reading the original book, I went online and looked up stuff about it. I found all kinds of groups and stuff using the name, but using altered methodologies - like if they were packaging it for a particular audience.
Which brings me to the the marketing thing: people find an audience and then find the best way to market it to them. This is because people are fickle. It doesn't necessarily at all measure the effectiveness of the product, just that they were able to get people to buy it. And, no, Furey didn't say the exericse wasn't that good, but that the layout of that page wasn't good. That's the way your bro said it, anyway. Although, I have to mention, he writes much more impressively in an article where he might have a lot more time to think about the content and proof read it an all.
Back on CC and training: actually, there are ways to increase resistance without using weights. (I'll tell ya if you wanna know.) And speed is often not a decent (I know he didn't say it was the only) criterion to base a training regimen on - but it would be for his audience. I still say these are the best all-around exercises, but regardless notice he doesn't use just a couple-few, let alone one. He uses several. And, he's right, CC isn't a program. We're not talking about programs, here. DUH.
And, no, that Mahler doesn't do conditioning anymore say anything, necessarily. That he doesn't lift anymore, and for years say anything? Not necessarily, cos he could just be obsessed with kettlebells. He still links the CC article. He wouldn't if he thought of them even closely to what your bro does. No, the reason Mahler does mostly kettlebells (not only, cos he does do lighter, in-between conditioning, as well as mentions it in his newsletter workouts and stuff) is cos he thinks they're the most effective tool for his purposes. They're the only gear of that kind I recommend. But his level of training is so far above most people that it isn't even funny. He trains smart, but he trains intensely.
Bottom line: I know what I do works. It'll work for anybody, with less work than anything else, and at least as comprehensively as anything else. All my own experience and those I've trained confirm this. If I find something better, I'll - as your bro says - use that instead. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I haven't found it. I haven't seen it in the little I've seen of his. But he and I are different: he has a goal, or goals, in mind. I have aspirations to be a certain way. He is gain-oriented. I'm process-oriented.
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Do you have rampant sexual energy?
As a married man, I do not have sex.
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as well as MT not being what your sister made it out to be. I did forget to mention that there isn't a standard with MT. After reading the original book, I went online and looked up stuff about it. I found all kinds of groups and stuff using the name, but using altered methodologies - like if they were packaging it for a particular audience.
So people can all have different takes on what it means, except her? Just want to double check the logic here... :applaud:
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You mistake the Einstein thing, and then fixated on it. Ego.
You took my comment about your comment on Einstein and fixated on it. It was obvious you have a huge ego long before this thread even started, let alone before you compared yourself to Einstein.
I forwarded the rest of your reply to Alywn and he may or may not reply. I told him not to worry about replying since your obviously obsessed with CC, but he generally likes getting into debates, so he probably will.
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Nuff said.
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Glaine: in general?
AS: being a nitwit doesn't help, here. I'll explain your ego fault, there: you perceived and assumed there was only one meaning to what you read. The meaning I had, however, was: you respect Einstein, right?...but he had no credentials. I wasn't at all comparing myself. For that matter, I didn't discover any of this. Neither did Furey - he says so. So you just masturbated, there.
You should tell Alwyn to come and create an account so he doesn't have to use you as his poor-boy medium. I've had a distinct advantage in this discussion so far: I have as much time as I wish to discuss it. I'm not bound by economic boundaries on my time, effort, and product. I discuss things from a technical point of view. As technical as I know, as well as as technical as is necessary. I also don't need to laugh at comments and then avoid them. Come round, come round....
Buddabing: too funny. And that's too bad if true...though, I didn't talk about having sex, but sexual energy, which is what fundamentally powers and enables us. It's really simple: lifestyle.
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Buddabing: too funny. And that's too bad if true...though, I didn't talk about having sex, but sexual energy, which is what fundamentally powers and enables us. It's really simple: lifestyle.
That was just a joke. My comment about Californians eating bean sprouts and tofu was a joke, too.
Please keep discussions in this thread civil.
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Seriously, dude has sex...
...don't tell his wife though
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Well, just to continue in the turn this thread has taken ...
Metabolic typing is interesting to think about, but it would take a lot more than having cooked meat as part of our diet for however long (millennia? No one can really say) to show that everyone or nearly everyone should eat animal protein. For example, we are the only primates who consume a significant amount of meat protein for food. Chimpanzees are known to kill and hunt ritualistically and eat some bugs, but there has never been more than 5 percent animal protein found in chimpanzee poo. No other great apes eat animals. Mountain gorillas even spurn the hunt in favor of roots and mold. And they are way stronger than us proportionally, not to mention that they die of far fewer preventable diseases. The idea that meat has somehow made us smarter is wishful thinking and totally unsupportable.
The biological evidence right now is that we share more than 90% of our DNA with many species of Great Apes and that our digestive systems look nearly identical. Metabolic typing cannot explain the shape and function of our highly evolved digestive tracts, which, for example, are very different from the smoother, shorter, colons of either carnivores or omnivores.
Regarding the protein argument, few nutritionists cite the fact that protein must be broken down into its basic parts, amino acids, to be utilized by the body. Amino acids are found in a wide range of non-animal foods. The general argument that the most complete, i.e. the protein with the most similar structure to our own, is found in meat, has been debunked in a lot of ways, everything from Francis Moore Lappe's old-school protein combining revelation (Diet for a Small Planet) to the simple realization that vegetarians in many cultures thrive without the "necessary" protein from meat. I find it funny to think that that old protein like our own argument seems to suggest that cannabilism would be the best way to get protein, since it would be identical to that already found in our building blocks.
So, I'm not trying to convince anyone that any one way of living is best--just that these are complicated issues and it's best to study many different arguments and make your own decisions about how to balance the practical with the ideal.
And, yes, I am a lifelong vegetarian, vegan for the first 12 years of my life. Let me reiterate that I realize that nothing that I have written above is without some form of dispute. These are very complicated issues for very complicated organisms such as ourselves and who would I be to absolutely recommend one thing or another to anyone else.
Peace, health and happiness to all. :cheers:
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Psst - I think there's meat in beer.
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Chad, that's not making either of you look good. kee kee kee kee
That was just a joke. My comment about Californians eating bean sprouts and tofu was a joke, too.
Please keep discussions in this thread civil.
Can be hard to tell...plus I'm sorta serious about fitness an all. And, what do you mean? Those words were classifications: the first indicating the silliness of his behavior; the second indicating the silliness of his position in the discussion. The only emotional component in the usage for me is in relation to how those factors affect the quality of the discussion.
Ken: I think MT is simpler than that. 1) we've been eating meat - most of the time raw - for hundreds of millenia. It's in the fossil record. 2) MT is about oxidation. Being a protein type, as well as having done the veg thing, I know what my body is more satisfied with. 3) as mentioned in that other thread, some people can do veg, even vegan, whom I suspect are carb types. They can subsist on vegetable proteins - not soy so much as legumes and peas - as long as they get enough fat. Otherwise, they're generally undernourished and look it. Hell, Mahler's a vegan - I bet he's a carb type.
Cool that you're cool-headed about this. Thanks.
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Chad, that's not making either of you look good. kee kee kee kee
???
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what do you mean?
Actually, I was referring to your comment to AtomSmasher:
AS: being a nitwit doesn't help, here. I'll explain your ego fault, there: you perceived and assumed there was only one meaning to what you read. The meaning I had, however, was: you respect Einstein, right?...but he had no credentials. I wasn't at all comparing myself. For that matter, I didn't discover any of this. Neither did Furey - he says so. So you just masturbated, there.
IMO the name-calling and masturbation references don't belong here.
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Yeah, Buddabing, I explained that. The masturbation comment is....what? We are big boys here, yes? Think carefully.
Chad:
Posted by: ChadTower Posted on: Today at 09:45:11 AM
Insert Quote
Seriously, dude has sex...
jbox: no. it was implicit that her experience is with one of these other groups and that they all are at odds with the book. I follow the book....THE BOOK....
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Yeah, Buddabing, I explained that masturbation is....what? We are big boys here, yes?
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I explained that masturbation is....what? We are big boys here, yes?
Now Chad's getting more to the meat of things, here.
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Yeah, Buddabing, I explained that masturbation is....what? We are big boys here, yes?
Now Chad's getting more to the meat of things, here.
That was just icing meant to provoke a response. ;)
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I explained that masturbation is....what? We are big boys here, yes?
Now Chad's getting more to the meat of things, here.
That was just icing meant to provoke a response. ;)
How come not everyone has this happen to them?
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I said that I thought you had a huge ego long before the Einstein comment, so to me that comment was just seemed like par for the course. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but that really has no bearing on this argument. Credentials don't always mean a lot, but it's pretty hard to find anyone who is good in any field who doesn't have them. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but it's unlikely that the greatest training mind on the planet is going to be on an arcade building forum...
Besides, Einstein was pretty well credentialed in all honesty. Poor example.
Alwyn is not going to come here and start an account to debate you on the subject because he really couldn't care less about your questions. He gets asked fitness questions all the time and web sites generally pay him to come to their site and answer some questions, the only reason he gave you any response at all is because I was the one that asked him about it. He did just send me an email back, but it doesn't answer any questions for you. Heres an excerpt:
At a seminar last year I offered to bet a year's mortgage to anyone who could get a faster result than I could when training someone. No takers....
The internet is interesting.
How can you disagree with someone who is CERTIFIED in that diet? Especially when they are agreeing with you!
One of the websites I write for, used to have a comments section under each article. It got ridiculous -- I mean you had dr's with multiple degrees in physiology getting reamed by nameless guys on the internet. Dr John Berardi says X. Godzilla23 says "He is wrong!".
One of my friends was interviewed and one of the responses was "who the ---fudgesicle--- has he trained? Until I see some results I'm not listening to anything this tool says" My friend had worked with 3 Olympic teams and has 25 years experience. The poster? 14 years old.
Everyone is fine with criticism -- but it has to come from someone with at least some experience in the field.
This magazine eventually pulled the comments section and ran the articles separately from the forum because it was terrible.
I think there are some guys who honestly don't really disagree, or have any real issues. I honestly think they post to see if they can start a fight or get a response. Like this guy - Rachel agrees with him and he takes a shot at her.
So I just don't respond.
Also, you probably didn't notice, but I didn't make any responses for or against MT or CC before I asked my brother-in-law. The reason I asked him about them is because most people here don't really know what they are (including myself) and I happen to have an expert on the subject on speed dial. I thought it would benefit the discussion to get some informed feedback on the topics. Feel free to disagree with them if you want, but I'm betting most people will side with a professional trainer and nutritionist over you.
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Yeah, Buddabing, I explained that masturbation is....what? We are big boys here, yes?
Now Chad's getting more to the meat of things, here.
That was just icing meant to provoke a response. ;)
How come not everyone has this happen to them?
Speaking of which, I love the movie Pumping Iron.
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Both of you please take my name out of those quotes.
Thanks.
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Think I got 'em all in mine.
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That's cool, AS. I wasn't dissing anybody. I just stated my experience and my opinion. From my experience, CC and MT (and Blood typing) are effective. I think a lot of things are effective; a lot of things Alwyn does. As speed is never an issue for me, I think what I do works best for the way I want to be. It sure doesn't suck. (When talking about training, I don't use such words, cos they're often perceived - if not meant - as opinionated, vs assessing.) As for jumping on your sister's initial comment, it's in quotes so it appears like Alwyn is talking about his sister, and then it looks like he goes on and talks about it. But like I said, it didn't seem the same as the source I'd experienced, which I assumed the book was definitive as it was by the guy who discovered it.
On Einstein: maybe I remember wrong, but I think he had barely graduated from college before he discovered relativity. Some credentials, but according to the story sorta inconsequential. At one point, some time near then or later, he went to Bohr, I think, with what he had and Bohr told him it was a brilliant idea but needed cleaning up, so advised E to bone up on his math. Again, I wasn't comparing myself, just mentioning an example of something I presumed you put faith in. I agree on the credentials thing, mostly. It can go both ways.
Definitely nothing against you, or Alwyn or your sister. We're just different.
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I was wondering when something I said would make the quote-fu cut. :)
Atomsmasher, not to be disrespectful, but Alwyn is not really being very specific in many regards. Where he is being specific, it seems like there could be multiple interpretations, like when he mentions that the guy who created the Combat Conditioning didn't think it would sell because it wasn't that good. Well, it could be that the layout wasn't that good or the writing wasn't that good or just that it didn't really have a predetermined niche in the market. Or maybe he was just saying that in order to pump up his own ability to market stuff (like, oh yeah that book was total crap, but, with my marketing abilities I was able to make it a bestseller and, if you follow these easy steps, you can too). I think it's unwise to cross the logic line and say that the guy who came up with the 3 excercises of combat conditioning doesn't think they're all that good. At least, that's my interpretation without having actually seen the DVD.
Also, Alwyn is pushing that I'm an expert and I make money stuff just a little too far. I also don't understand his rationale about the "fastest" method. I guess he gets paid by the hour and that's how he sells his workout. It's marketing speak if I've ever heard it. Some bodies are more easily trainable than others and a lot of that is psychological. If he doesn't want to explain himself, then why spend so long touting his own expertise and marketability?
That said, he also just doesn't sound like the type of guy who likes to argue on the Internet, since he keeps referring to the Internet as if it were an alien planet or something. Yeah, we all get dissed by the 14-year-olds sometimes. It's nice that you respect him so much and defend his opinions so vigorously.
But, we aren't all 14, so I think Shorthair's point was that it's a little unfair to bring a third-party into a discussion and then to just say that you should appreciate his input simply because he's an expert.
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Just thought I'd mention that Rachel is his wife and my sister. If you notice before the first quote I posted, "stuff in brackets is stuff I added", it was to help you and others better understand an email addressed to me. I can see how it could be confusing though and I probably should of done it differently. The second quote I gave about MT was from my sister who knows a bit more about nutrition then Alywn.
KT: He was writing the responses to me (not to shorthair directly) which is probably why he wasn't very specific. I don't know much about the specifics of what are good exercises, or what makes a good workout routine and he knows that. He was also most likely just quickly giving the responses off the top of his head. I'm sure he could go into more detailed responses, but that would also take a lot more time to do.
As for him pushing he's an expert and getting the "fastest" results. These days the only people he personally trains are professional athletes, so if the people he trained didn't see results superior (faster) to their previous trainer, they would quit and he wouldn't be getting paid at all. Most of his time now is actually spent going to gyms across the country where they hired him to come and teach their trainers how to be better at what they do. A few years ago the trainers used to come to him and pay a lot of money to essentially be interns at his gym just to learn from him, even though they often owned their own gym. If he wasn't very good, he wouldn't be in very high demand.
I said that he generally likes to debate, which I'm fairly sure he does, but I've only ever seen him debate in real life. This is the first time I've ever drawn him even partially into an internet debate which he apparently doesn't care much for. Its not exactly surprising that any other attempts of online debating he's done was filled with trolls though.
Someone else on the forum actually brought his name up first, talking about how much they liked his book, so it's not like I brought him up out of the blue. I assumed people here would appreciate hearing what someone highly respected in the physical fitness world had to say on the subject, but if I was wrong, then so be it. I apologize for trying to bring an informed objective opinion to this discussion. If I was trying to steamroll shorthair, then why would I put that they agreed that there is something to MT.
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I think there's two reasons for 'fast results': time and money, and sports training (often sharing beds). I'm not alluding to anything about those when I say, I've never been interested in them. My interest is in being fit according to a broader set of criteria, and being able to easily - as in the simplest set of information possible - pass this on to whomever I'm interacting with. For humanity to be mindful, which would include physical fitness, it would make for a distinct change in human civilization. A better one.
Ken: I think Alwyn's button got pushed...but he made that up in his last response. It was much more collected. As well, AS got a little enthralled in the 'who's the expert' thing. Not a big deal, not germane to the discussion, which is why I didn't bring it up or flesh it out.
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Ok, yeah, I had sort of forgotten that someone else had already brought him up, although I remember going "whoah" when I read that you had actually informed him of our discussion, at least partially.
I also agree that shorthair was, ahem, splitting hairs how your sister responded, although I think what he was reacting to was the dismissive tone of what your sister wrote about metabolic typing. And Alwyn's reaction that "how can you disagree with someone who is certified in that field" just doesn't strike me as a debate-worthy statement, nor a serious response, but we already talked about that. I have to say: I'm kind of dismissive about typing, too, in that it doesn't interest me enough to research it. I'm with PatrickL that too much of anything doesn't really work.
Unfortunately, more complexity lies in that things are wrongly classified, such as candy and other such nutritionless objects being classified as food. So, that moderation argument gets knocked around a lot without regard to the reality that certain things should not be consumed at all by people who want to lead energetic, healthy lives.
Also, I've not really researched it heavily, but I've heard that the nutritional values of foods dramatically change after cooking. That's mainly espoused by raw foodists, but it means that it could be that nutrition facts, etc. are calculated for pre-cooked foods and in fact are completely wrong.
So, how much raw meat do you eat, shorthair?
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Hey
Yea those devices they use are not always accurate.. I usually have a six pack and mine is all over the map. I eat clean very clean.
Bottom line is you have to diet. Not sure what the trainer said but you can do all the training in the world if you dont eat clean your wasting alot of time. ehehe I say this as I down my post workout protein shake with oatmeal :) eheh...sersiously working out is 99 % diet. really is. even if you didnt work out and diet you would lean out. Look at those super obese guys on tv..they sit in bed do dick all..but they lose hundres just by diet.
anyways I am a avant weightlifter, runner etc.. if I can help you let me know..... not to brag but I went from 220 to 165 in a matter of months...no steady at 190...some say i should compete but i just love to train and be healthy...
anyways good luck
Jim
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Demon-Seed
Full Member
Posts: 999
You must really be the devil. If you read your post count upside down it's 666!
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Ken: I don't eat raw meat. I like beef, like say a steak, bloody, but cooked enough to see the grain. I think raw food is the way to go...it's just not as far as I want to go (with meat). Two things I'd like to reiterate:
1. Rachel's response didn't match what I read in the book. I go by the book.
2. In my experience, a person eating according to their type doesn't have/evolves out of desires for junk food, their palette changes*, and they don't snack unless they happen to be very very active...and, even then, they tend to want food sources that will nutrify and enduringly power them. The right kind of intake will balance one's body. (This is sorta what DS is saying, though a little more sophisticated.) But, further, eating high-quality treats - which I don't even think of them as such by definition - just contributes to one's health.
3. (this is supplemental) vegetarianism and veganism can work for some. Thematically, though, if the reason for doing so has any length of foot in the 'mercy for animals' sand box, whoever's doing it has NO business doing it. I know a girl whose father was a typical anti-authoritarian, yet was ULTRA controlling in his household, and vegetarianism was one of his psychological hot buttons. To this day, she is convinced that 'mercy for animals' is a reason to be veg/vegan. But it's not. It's a reason for having better raising and processing conditions. Recently, she and I got into a brief email discussion on this. I told her, 'do the existence of GM crops make anti-GM activists tell everyone they MUST ONLY eat meat? She won't receive my email, anymore. (heheheh)
*I have some distinct advantages over many people, I think. One is I'm naturally fairly slender. Others are both environmental and genetic. We didn't have lots of money for treats an all, but my parents let me eat what I liked, as long as I ate dinner - which, except for vegetables, I ALWAYS ate dinner cos I was hungry for food...I just usually had stomach for dessert, too. My parents weren't much of drinkers, but they let me have a beer or two at grown-up parties, etc. I've never been much of a drinker, though. They drank coffee and let me drink it; by the time I was seven or eight, I was making my own as often as I wished. Quit drinking it about 15 years ago, though.
They did smoke, but I was the last one to take it up (mostly from the crowd I hung out with...I always liked a good dip of Red Man or Levi Garrett, better) and quit after five years. Haven't had a dip but a couple/few times in about as long. My parents did have their food issues. My dad has a sweet tooth. Go to the local, family-owned ice cream shop and he ALWAYS gets a butterscotch sunday with marshmallow (this stuff is thick) toping. My mom ate chocolate, particularly M&Ms. As a kid, I'd mac chocolate and candy bars. If there weren't any treats in the house, I'd go for the sugar (another favorite of my dad's - coffee with your sugar?) bowl and a spoon! And I hated vegetables. I'll just say I had excretory problems as a kid and adolescent, to go with whatever emotional issues that invoked the sweet cravings. (Never got fat, though...we almost didn't have fat kids in school till I got to high school!...everyone PLAYED OUTSIDE most of the time.)
But for years I haven't liked sugar like that. The last several years, I love all kinds of vegies, raw.
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I just usually had stomach for dessert, too.
(http://haradakun.cool.ne.jp/shashin/haggis.jpg)
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You know, one time I was on the way to pick up my girlfriend of the time from work. I happened to be eating some tuna in sunflower oil, when I happened upon a crushed cat in the road. See, the traffic had stopped, and almost right next to my car, there was this crushed cat, brains and guts all over the place. Well, having such an opportunity, I had to look. And I had a good long look - in-between mouthfuls of tuna. The traffic next to me then moved up and the guys in a truck passing sure gave me an odd look.
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Well I wondered what this was all about so I just saw a Matt Furey exercise video. That was just hilarious. Apart from the amateur video work and the amount of BS about combat in it, the guy could hardly even do his own stupid exercises. So that says to me he doesn't use them himself. He did 3 Hindu pushups and he was completely out of breath (while he claims he normally does at least 100). He did one of those handstand pushups and almost fell off the chairs. So he quit after one push up. Pfffft.
I guess if his is the only book (or rather 3 exercise pamphlet) you ever read then it might make an impression on you, but for the rest of us ...
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You know, one time I was on the way to pick up my girlfriend of the time from work. I happened to be eating some tuna in sunflower oil, when I happened upon a crushed cat in the road. See, the traffic had stopped, and almost right next to my car, there was this crushed cat, brains and guts all over the place. Well, having such an opportunity, I had to look. And I had a good long look - in-between mouthfuls of tuna. The traffic next to me then moved up and the guys in a truck passing sure gave me an odd look.
For some reason, this one is funny to me this morning.
.... and then I see jbox's contribution.
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For Christ's sake, such a huge debate over such a simple thing:
Do more, eat less.
Boom.
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Saw this article (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/315227_thinfat11.html) in the newspaper today. Basically it's talking about how fat can be stored internally, so even if you're thin externally, you can have potentially dangerous fat deposits surrounding your vital organs. Maybe I should rethink my pizza obsession after all...
My boss has the worst diet I've ever seen. He recently had a cardio heart scan taken that showed that his arteries are completely clear. He's taken that, plus his thin frame, to mean he can eat whatever the hell he wants. I've always thought he's the type of guy that's just going to randomly keel over some day out of the blue before he even hits 50.
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Yes, the internal organs are the most important.
patrickl: I haven't seen any of the videos. I don't need to watch first. I just do them. Try them, then come back.
Check out this short video of Karl Gotch, who trained Furey (after Furey won the gold medal in China in shiao chau) :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0GVGdza7k1I
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Well it looked like a circus act. The point is, if he cannot do them himself (and thus obviously does not use them), how serious can you take his claims that they work?
There is no bloody way that I'm going to do a handstand on a couple of chairs and then do pushups. They should put that nut in jail for even suggesting something as ludicrous as that. I'll go to a gym rather than breaking my neck thank you very much.
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Well it looked like a circus act. They should put that nut in jail for even suggesting something as ludicrous as that. I'll go to a gym rather than breaking my neck thank you very much.
For some reason, I get the feeling you're not a convert ;)
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Going below your head level in a hand-stand push-up is hard. Though, of course, it's an inconvenient situation, too, which is why I just use a wall and the ground. Easy. And, yeah, most people are chicken about going into a hand-stand. I was a little leary the first time round, as it'd been MANY years since I'd done that. But, before long, I was doing 5 or 6 sets of 10 or 12 push-ups, in-between other exercises. But those aren't part of the royal court. They're supplemental. You're avoiding the point.
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Buddabing, here's a freebie, from Furey's blog:
Samurai Deep Breathing
'Deep breathing alone has made many a weak man strong
and many a sick man well.'
These words come from the immortal teachings of Martin
'Farmer' Burns in his 1914 by-mail course, 'Lessons in
Wrestling and Physical Culture' - available at
http://www.mattfurey.com/farmerburns.html - but they
could have just as easily come from the ancient Samurai of
Japan - or the old-time Jiu-Jitsu masters.
For example, in a 1911 book on Japanese exercise methods
that I read many years ago, I recorded the following:
'The ancient samurai was accustomed to going out
into the open air as soon as he rose in the morning. There he
devoted at least 10 or 15 minutes to continued deep breathing,
standing with his hands on his hips in order that he might feel
the play of his muscles.'
Breathing in the open air was also recommended by Farmer Burns
as well early American fitness pioneers such as Charles Atlas, Bernarr
MacFadden and Paul Bragg. These men truly knew what they were
talking about.
Today, in most fitness programs taught around the world, deep breathing
is practically ignored. This is a major mistake as, to quote one of my former
teachers, 'Your breath is your power.'
You can tell a lot about a person simply by observing how he or she breathes.
In fact, I believe you can map out the structure of how the person lives life.
Shallow breathers tend to be shallow people. Deep breathers tend to be
interested in far more than the superficial.
The sound a person makes when breathing, especially while exercising, is
also revealing. Does he or she have a problem with being seen or heard? You'll
know by whether or not you can hear the person breathing. Does this person
breathe in a way that says, 'life is a struggle' - or in a way that shows how
they simply 'flow?'
Maybe you've never paid much attention to the subject of deep breathing
before. For the first 25 years of my life I didn't either. Yet, I assure you,
life is much better when you're in tune with how you breathe.
Pay attention to your breathing. Make sure it is deep and full.
Spend 10-15 minutes per day working on it. You can do so while
performing the exercises in Combat Abs [for more about them go to
http://www.mattfurey.com/combat_abs.html ] - which are part deep
breathing and part abdominal flexing. You can make time for them
throughout the day, especially when you feel like you need a 'breather.'
During those moments, never forget, your breath is your power.
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Seriously, I wasn't snoring. I was simply testing out my super powers
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What are you talking about? That is your super power. Of course, as you're unconscious when using it, you don't really know that your super name is, Thunder Snoot!
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Your prattling simply strengthens me, mortal.
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Yeah, keep on runnin. (You know, folks, that this is really a carnal affair of a bizarre kind.)
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/226/504722286_507ada4c05_o.gif)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/194/504757293_2478cca2eb_o.jpg)
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Hey, I like that one. Cats are keen creatures.
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Here's a simple kick----smurfing----ass routine:
Exercises That Burn Fat Fast
Children are naturally flexible. And they have boundless
energy. In fact, when PROFESSIONAL athletes have tried
to keep up with a child, they get exhausted within an hour.
Literally and truly.
Before my daughter hit the crawl stage, she had to do
baby pushups - not to mention a lot of back hyper-
extensions. In order to achieve the sit-up-in-bed stage,
she had to do a lot of leg lifts and knee pullins. One of her
favorite exercises was the army crawl. That one whoops
most adults within a few seconds.
After army crawls come bear crawls. Oh yes, one of my
favorites for torturing people into great shape fast.
Bear crawls are one of the most overlooked bodyweight
exercises - and if you take a minute a day - well, maybe
more like 30 seconds to crawl like a bear - believe you me,
results are a coming down the pike.
After bear crawls flip over for a bit of crab walking, and
you've virtually hit every muscle in the body, except the neck.
Now let's look at the three crawls already mentioned - and other
assorted exercises in my books and weave a fat-burning workout
around them:
1. Baby pushups - hips and legs on floor - push off palms, lower
and repeat
2. Army crawls - 10-20 seconds
3. Leg lifts - 10-20 to start
4. Leg pull-ins - 10-20
5. Bear crawls - 30 seconds
6. Crab walks - 10-20 seconds
7. Get-ups - lie on back and come to standing - 10x -
this fine exercise is one that I specifically emphasized for the
80 and 90-year old men and women I trained at my gym in
California. - Very important.
So you see, even the most basic things we do as a child can
be turned into a kick-butt workout, using nothing more than
your own bodyweight.
And the sky is NOT the limit. It can go on and on and on - so
that you are always challenged.
By the way, babies also know how to breathe properly. They
do it naturally, right out of the gate. Because babies breathe
deeply, they have more energy, laugh all the time and have
a great time while exploring and learning from their new world.
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You should seek a career in door to door selling.
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You should seek a career in door to door selling.
hahahah. That's what the net is for. And this is an example, cos this is from one of Furey's e-letters. But, no, I'm not interested in marketing. As evidenced in my ideas in training people, self-publishing an old philosophical treatise, as well as a personally cast and produced quality (meaning actual intimacy between the cast members) adult site, an innate intent of mine is to provide free service.