Question for fitness types

[Buddabing]

Hello,

I started working with a personal trainer about six weeks ago and I did my first set of measurements this week.

I made some nice progress; half an inch off the waist, half an inch off the thighs, and half an inch off the hips. Plus my "recovery pulse" was lower, etc.

But one number was off. My body fat, which was 22% six weeks ago, was measured at 23.8%! Although my diet is poor and my weight went up two pounds over the six weeks, I still did not expect body fat percentage to increase.

The device they use is a little hand-held gadget, gripped in both hands, that has some kind of sensor in the palms of the grips.

My question is, how accurate are those doodads compared to getting in the tank or being measured by calipers?

TIA,
Buddabing

[ChadTower]

Nothing is near the accuracy of the water immersion method.  Nothing is nearly as expensive and requires all that time and equipment, either.

The calipers method is good for an experienced person measuring someone else.  It's way too easy to fudge the pressure on yourself to be a reasonable method for someone in the 20%+ range.  You'd be able to get a 5% range just with a small amount of squeezing or not squeezing.

The bioimpedance method is good for getting a baseline of where you are, i.e. "I'm at 22%".  I've never had great luck with it for tracking small changes over time as you're doing and I have definitely experienced exacly what you have said.  I've gone down in weight, up in muscle measurements, down in waist size, only to see a 2% bodyfat increase in the same period.  Somehow that one % number destroys your positive image of what you have accomplished, too.  You can have 20 good numbers but if that one is bad you feel like you failed.

My best advice is to ignore that reading.  Bioimpedance can be affected by so many simple things like time of day or hydration level.  Focus on the more tangible measurements in the short term and only use the bodyfat level as a long term measurement over many weeks or months.  If your "fat place" measurements are going down and your weight is going up, you are doing well.

[CCM]

I don't know how accurate those things are, but if you are serious about getting in shape you MUST get your diet in order.

Here's a link dealing with body fat calculation methods:

http://www.annecollins.com/body-fat-calculators.htm

[KenToad]

Yeah, don't worry about the arbitrary and likely inaccurate body fat calculations.  Glad to hear you've started a regime.  Keep it up!

And avoid Corn Syrup. 

[Buddabing]

The funny thing is that I don't appear any different to myself. Same beer gut. But I feel better, no more persistent lower back pain. The trainer says that strengthening the abs tends to help back pain because the back muscles have to do less work.

Changing diet may be difficult. The trainer says to have several small meals each day. Easier said than done. My co-worker in the cube next door used to drink "delicious shakes" between meals. I think he got the ones you put in a blender with some ice. How good are those? Having a "delicious shake" at 3:00 or so really would help the between-meal snacking urges. And do vitamins/minerals/ other supplements help at all?

[ChadTower]

If all you want to do is get in better condition, you don't have to separate your meals like that.  All you have to do is eat quality foods and cut down on crap.  That's it.  That is more than enough for most people.  Going to 5-6 small meals a day, going 100% clean diet of tuna/rice/chicken/broccoli, etc is for athletes, bodybuilders, and people who only want to stick with the diet for two weeks.

[CCM]

Yea, what Chad said.  Just eat smarter.  Just really start watching your calories.  I don't know if this is true, but a buddy of mine said that you bascially need 10 calories per pound of body weight just to maintain.  So, if you're 200 pounds you need to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain that weight.  If you want to lose weight, eat less than 2000/day, to gain weight eat more than 2000/day.

The important thing is that you are feeling better, just don't get discouraged.  Keep working and your weight will come down.

If you have to snack in between meals eat something healthy, don't go for the candy bars and chips. 

[shardian]

If you want to eat healthier, the first thing to do is cut out all fried foods. Once you wean yourself off of fried food, it sounds gross even thinking about eating it. If you even have one order of fries though, you'll be hooked again. I don't know if it is a scientific fact, but I truly believe that deep fried foods are addictive.

Another easy fix is to cut out pop.

Once upon a time, I lost like 35 lbs in about 8 months. I eliminated fried food, cut out pop almost completely, and counted fat grams. If you can keep to 15 fat grams or less in each meal, then you are doing good. Doesn't get much simpler than counting fat grams IMO.

Good Luck! I wish I had the motivation to get in shape. I definitely need to change my eating/exercise habits.

[ChadTower]

Yea, what Chad said.  Just eat smarter.  Just really start watching your calories.  I don't know if this is true, but a buddy of mine said that you bascially need 10 calories per pound of body weight just to maintain.  So, if you're 200 pounds you need to eat 2000 calories a day to maintain that weight.  If you want to lose weight, eat less than 2000/day, to gain weight eat more than 2000/day.

When I was powerlifting, I used to go with 10-11 to lose, 12-13 to maintain, and 13+ to gain.  So that's about right for an average muscled person.

[zaphod]

I 100% agree with sharidian.  I cut out soda almost fifteen years ago and dropped eight pounds in a week, and this was off a (then) 160 lb frame.  I eliminated most all fried foods and fast foods about twelve years ago and never looked back.  Throw some exercise in three or four times a week, eat halfway decently and you'll feel and look better in a relatively short span.
Oh, ignore the scale and pay attention to the mirror instead. 

[AtomSmasher]

I agree with a lot of whats been said here, such as shakes and 5 meals a day are for people who really want to get in shape and will really commit to it.  Eating 3 healthy meals is perfectly fine for the average person.  However, if you do decide you want to do 5 meals, or just want a good protein shake to drink, I've found the one called "Metabolic Drive" is the best protein shake there is (some of you might know it by its old name, "Grow!").  I've tried a number of different low carb shakes, and IMO this one is easily the best.

Also, I picked up a neat thing at Bed,Bath, and Beyond a while ago made for these shakes.  Basically it has a container for the water, on the bottom is a screw on section to hold the powder, and inside there is a thing you stick in the freezer which keeps the water cold all day.  It lets me easily have a cold shake anywhere I go, and definately worth finding one if your serious about the 5 meals a day.

[KenToad]

Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup.  It's a killer, man. 

[ChadTower]

And don't halfass it by moving to diet soda instead.  That never works all that well as it doesn't develop the discipline.  Plus, diet soda is really bad for you too, but in more sinister ways.

[Buddabing]

Well, I dropped 20 pounds a few years ago when I switched to diet soda. Yes, diet soda is supposedly bad for you. But I'd rather drink that than the swill that passes for coffee at the office, and I don't know if I want to go through caffeine withdrawal at this time.

[ChadTower]

They make caffeine pills.  Consider reading some of emerging studies based on the long term effects of artificial sweeteners and the brain.  They're starting to find potential links to really scary stuff like Alzheimer's.

[CCM]

Well, I dropped 20 pounds a few years ago when I switched to diet soda. Yes, diet soda is supposedly bad for you. But I'd rather drink that than the swill that passes for coffee at the office, and I don't know if I want to go through caffeine withdrawal at this time.

Stop on the way to the office and buy coffee.

[Dartful Dodger]

I 100% agree with sharidian.  I cut out soda almost fifteen years ago and dropped eight pounds in a week, and this was off a (then) 160 lb frame.

A month ago I switched from regular to diet soda. I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days.  After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.

I wasn't fat, but now I'm in better shape for summer.

[Glaine]

Even if I could manage eatting right, I think I would have a hard time getting on a good sleep schedule.

[Chris G]

We have one of the weight scales that also calculates body fat %age.  It may not be completely accurate, but if you use it at the same time every day it should give you fairly consistent results which can be used to guage your improvement.  Hopefully your trainer is having you do a mix of weight lifting as well as cardio, even if your main goal is to lose weight.  Gaining muscle mass will improve your metabolism, help lower that body fat % and most important, make you feel better overall.  Good luck and stick with it!

 
Chris

[SirPeale]

Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup.  It's a killer, man. 

High Fructose Corn Syrup isn't corn syrup.  They take corn starch and run it thru a few chemicals and enzymes to convert it into a glucose/fructose syrup.

Glucose is a sugar that every cell in your body can metabolize. 

Fructose, OTOH, is not.  Your liver has to break it down.

[shardian]

Even if I could manage eatting right, I think I would have a hard time getting on a good sleep schedule.

Same here. New baby + 50 hour work week + non-stop weekend housework = 0 sleep

[shmokes]

I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days.  After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.

That's an interesting way to word that.   

I agree with most of this stuff, though I'm not especially worried about fats.  I don't think they're especially dangerous (aside from trans fats, which should send you running for the hills).  I think sugar is the main thing, and I don't just mean the obvious stuff.  Practically all pre-made food in America has sugar added to it.  you gotta try to avoid this.  As people have mentioned, start with soda.  I have a very healthy diet, and have for the last 9 years.  It started when I was 19 years old and made the conscious decision that I was going to cut soda out of my diet (I actually decided that I already disliked the taste, but was being tricked into thinking I liked it by carbonation -- let a soda go flat and drink it and tell me it isn't like drinking straight syrup, like the stuff they flavor lattes with at Starbucks).  Anyway, I switched cold-turkey to water, and within days I found that I had considerably more energy all through the day, rather than having less thanks to the lack of caffein.  It also didn't take too long for the thought of soda to become repulsive to me.  Not drinking soda today requires the exact same amount of willpower for me as not drinking the juice that I drain from a can of tuna after opening it.  I know I could if I wanted to, but the thought doesn't even cross my mind.  It has no appeal to me.

Here's the best part, though.  A coke has some god-awful equivalent of like 12 teaspoons of sugar in a single can.  That's a lot of ---smurfing--- sugar.  Once you cut that out of your diet for long enough that you stop craving it, your body makes some other serious changes, and one of those, is it stops craving sugar altogether.  Anymore I eat VERY VERY VERY little candy, cookies, cake, ice cream, etc.  I just don't feel like having them most of the time.  It pisses my wife off, cos she'll be like, "Let's stop and get ice cream cones."  And I'll say, "Okay.  I'll probably just have a bite or two of yours."  And she's like, "Nevermind, I don't want one anymore," cos it makes her feel fat.  But I can't help it.  I just don't feel like eating that much ice cream. 

I love it.  The only change I've made to my diet for health reasons, EVER, was replacing soda with water.  All the other changes simply followed automatically, with no effort or willpower on my part whatsoever.

[patrickl]

A month ago I switched from regular to diet soda. I lost 20 pounds in the first 20 days.  After the first 20 pounds I've been losing a pound a day.

I wasn't fat, but now I'm in better shape for summer.

You must be an exception where drinking diet soda does help (still).

Diet Soda Drinkers Gain Weight

[shmokes]

I didn't read the whole article, but one immediate suspicion I have is that they are mixing up cause and effect.  Since regular cola tastes better than diet cola, the only people, for the most part, who drink diet are people who switched from regular because they were fat or getting fat.  In this respect, it stands to reason that you would find a much higher incidence of obesity with diet soda drinkers than regular soda drinkers.  They are likely drinking diet soda because they are obese, rather than the other way around.

Or, on the other hand, maybe I should have actually read the article before responding.

[patrickl]

Or, on the other hand, maybe I should have actually read the article before responding.

Well the article is confusing. First they say that diet soda itself is not necessarily the cause of obesity, but maybe a sign of people being obese (ie you drink it when you are fat). Later it explains how diet soda can make the body crave for real sugar and thus how in fact it might cause obesity.

BTW they started the test with normal weight persons and checked their weight gain over a few years. It's not like they took all the fatties and counted the ones drinking diet soda vs regular soda.

[shmokes]

BTW they started the test with normal weight persons and checked their weight gain over a few years. It's not like they took all the fatties and counted the ones drinking diet soda vs regular soda.

Okay, that makes sense, then.  I should have assummed that they wouldn't be that stupid.

[KenToad]

Yup, most sodas contain sugar in the form of corn syrup.  It's a killer, man. 

High Fructose Corn Syrup isn't corn syrup.  They take corn starch and run it thru a few chemicals and enzymes to convert it into a glucose/fructose syrup.

Glucose is a sugar that every cell in your body can metabolize. 

Fructose, OTOH, is not.  Your liver has to break it down.

Usually, corn syrup is just simply diluted High Fructose Corn Syrup.  They usually dilute with Glucose, but it's cheaper to always start with a very highly concentrated fructose syrup and dilute down to whatever concentration is needed. 

I actually wrote an article about this subject last year.  The food industry is not forced to differentiate between high fructose and just plain old corn syrup in a very distinct way, if I'm remembering correctly.  You won't get glucose syrup out of corn products, since glucose is sugar from vegetable sources, for example sugar beets.  And, you're right that glucose is better, since it doesn't do that "metabolic shunting" thing where the fructose bypasses the stomach and causes problems for the liver and heart. 

Also, it should be noted that metabolic shunting only happens with purified fructose.  Fructose in it's "natural" form has fiber and other things that help to keep it in the stomach, where it can be broken down without all the nasty side effects.

There are still doctors and nutritionists who claim that sugar is sugar, so I'm glad that this information is getting spread around more and more.

[shmokes]

And watch carbs, as they are practically sugar the second they hit your tongue.  I'm not talking about Atkins or some rot like that, but keep an eye on em.  This includes beer.  DRINK LIGHT BEER ONLY!  And try to keep it to one or two beers per night.  Start drinking more water.  Heinekin Light is pretty good for a light beer, IMO.  Give it a try.

[ChadTower]

In my experience, if you want to lose weight, beer has to go.  None of the light beer only crap.  I have never been able to drop weight with beer on the menu, not in any amount or any type.  In fact, alcohol in general has to be limited extensively because of the metabolic depression it brings on, not only while you're drunk but for at least the day following.

[shmokes]

Absolutely.  No beer is clearly better.  It just seems like a sacrifice that is not worth it for many people, and could potentially kill the entire diet.  For example, I do not eat foods with hydrogenated oil in them.  I have cut them out of my diet 100%.  Well, 99%.  There is no Nutella alternative, and Nutella has hydrogenated oil in it.  It's just too damned good to give up.

[ChadTower]

Beer is just raw bad calories... on a limited caloric intake, if one wants to waste enough to have a couple beers, it's hard to find enough other raw carbs to cut.  It's no different than eating half a loaf of bread for no reason, there's just no room on a cutting diet.  If a person can't do that they're probably not going to succeed anyway.  It has happened to me on more than one attempt.

[KenToad]

Absolutely.  No beer is clearly better.  It just seems like a sacrifice that is not worth it for many people, and could potentially kill the entire diet.  For example, I do not eat foods with hydrogenated oil in them.  I have cut them out of my diet 100%.  Well, 99%.  There is no Nutella alternative, and Nutella has hydrogenated oil in it.  It's just too damned good to give up.

Awesome, and I feel your pain about Nutella.  The crazy thing is that it's not made with hydrogenated oil in Europe.  I guess they send us the export version, which is, naturally, crappier to suit the American lifestyle. 

 

*Edit* If you have an Aldi supermarket nearby, then they usually have a non-hydrogenated Belgian Nutella alternative that's really comparable.  I think it's called Choceux or Choceur.

[shmokes]

It's no different than eating half a loaf of bread for no reason . . .

God, I just burst out laughing when I read that . . .

[ChadTower]

Beer - liquid bread.

Sometimes I wonder, though, does that make crap like Budweiser liquid Wonder Bread?

[KenToad]

Beer - liquid bread.

Sometimes I wonder, though, does that make crap like Budweiser liquid Wonder Bread?

 

Yeah, I'm not against beer that's been properly brewed, but then I don't hit the sauce very often, despite my homebrewing hobby.

[Chris G]

Damn I'm thankful for good genes.  Life almost wouldn't be worth living without carby Italian food... 

[lokki]

Funny was just reading hacker's diet (http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/)

Basically what this guy says is that forget everything you heard. The secret is to burn more calories than you eat. (I bet you were not expecting that  )

He says you can either run for 1 hour and burn 350 Calories . Or skip the Cheeseburger. 

Interesting read. The whole book  (short easy to read ) is online at

http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/e4/

[KenToad]

Pinballjim, yes, I am in pain denying myself the pleasures of Corn Syrup and Trans Fats.  Oh, and let's not forget the infinite joy of smoking ...   

I think cancer, obesity or an early heart attack probably would qualify as risks well worth minimizing.

Yes, Lokki, that diet is way too simple.  Calories are not equally "burned" by the body as fuel.  There are enzymes, bacteria, acids etc. that complicate the process, not to mention a lot of other science that isn't even fully understood about how the body actually metabolizes food and stores energy.  It's true that excercise can be the great balancing factor against many unhealthy choices, but counting calories is really a waste of time.

[shorthair]

Absolutely three things:

1. metabolic typing.

2. eat whole, organic foods.

3. body-weight calisthenics (a la THE ROYAL COURT).

Anything else just can't compete.

[shmokes]

2. eat whole, organic foods.

Does that mean that I have to eat an entire watermelon in one sitting.  Or a cow?