Mini Sega Aero Table MAME Cocktail Cabinet...

[slapaham]

I couldn't tell you if this is going to be feasible or not but I'm going to give it a shot - I need a new project!!

I'm going to attempt to build the smallest version of this that is physically possible...



using these -





- this project will also hinge on whether or not I can get a friend of mine to do some CNC work for me - he says as long as the bits aren't too big, he could probably help - but that was for something different - fingers crossed!

The challenge is going to be getting everything in proportion and shrinking everything down as much as possible!

Doing some initial measurements and doing it by eye, it looks possible but as I haven't done any Xbox modding of this stature (or any at all for a fair old while!) - it's going to be a (fun) challenge! It means minimizing the Xbox architecture to as small as I can get it.

The Xbox will boot straight into MAME - flubber splash screens, etc, removed - so a lightning fast boot and no sign of M$ hopefully! TSOP required for this.

I may also configure a user friendly way of using this as a vert screen as well. MAME in Xbox allows for very easy screen-flipping and as it's a cocktail it should convert nicely for this idea.

A hacked Xbox control pad will be the interface for the controls... may be a bit of a challenge fitting 2 player controls on such a small design - may 'borrow' the king of mini cab's idea of using the old plug n play sticks and buttons!

If this plan doesn't quite work then I will simplify the design and make a more traditional 'mini' cocktail table but as long as I can get some assistance on the CNC-side of things it should hopefully work...

Vast majority of bits should now been in the post, on their way to me! May start preparing the Xbox this week for the set up!

Any opinions, advice, feedback appreciated!

EDIT: Measurements suggest that the top 'square' section of the table will be 21cm by 21cm - just to give you an idea of what I mean by mini!

[Ryglore]

Nice, I'm interested to see this. Gotta love mini-cabs for sure. Good luck with the Xbox mod, I've never modded one before either, but I know that the Mobo on that thing is almost as big as the box is deep and wide.

[slapaham]

I have a bit of modding experience - more on the programming side than anything else but I am familiar with the architecture. The insides of a Xbox can definitely be minimised... you only need to take a look at these 2 projects to see to what extent...





I somewhat doubt I'll get the insides THAT small but I think I will be allowing for a little more space than these guys were aiming for!

[Franco B]

Should be a cool 'little' project

What are you having CNC'd?

[slapaham]

Hey Franco...

Well, I've asked the chap (and am awaiting a response) what's possible but I guess sections of the body...

I think this will be a nice little challenge! I'm a little surprised no-one has tried anything similar - the Xbox is ideal for a mini project plus you can run MAME v84 which makes it possible to make tiny MAME cabs! If you upgrade the HDD you could even put stuff like NES, SNES, Mega Drive, Mega CD, PSX, Xbox, Amiga, etc, etc, etc, on there - meaning you could potentially have an absolutely tiny cab that plays tens of thousands of games!!

I think it's going to be very fiddly to do in places but I definitely see it being a realistic project!

[vrf]

This will be a fun one to watch. I hope you can get that Xbox down in size. Otherwise, a mini-itx system might squeeze in better. (Based on what I know of that Playstation LCD.)

[slapaham]

Thanks for the mini-ITX suggestion - looking at them, they'd make really nice project architecture but as I'm trying to do this on a shoestring budget it wouldn't be quite as cost effective as the Xbox. A Xbox mobo board is meant to have dimensions of just under 21 cm by 20.5 cm. There are other bits that obviously need to fit in there but that should be the biggest area required. What I also like about using a Xbox is that it boots almost instantly and there are also no boot screens and the splash screen can be removed making very a nice, seamless and streamlined design.

[slapaham]

This also shows it's possible -


The only concern is proportion... I have a feeling that this mod is bigger than it needs to be... the curved edges very much seem to imply this...

EDIT: Right... doing a bit of research and this is all approx. (but close enough to get an idea!)

Original Aero Table works out at 35.5" by 35.5" with a 26" screen (don't know how to figure the dimensions out for this - anyone help?)

Xbox mobo should be around 8" by 8.25" and the TFT should be 4" by 3" - so in theory the screen is half the size of the area it is mounted... looking at the picture I posted at the top of this thread seems to imply this will look fairly in proportion to the original...

If anyone has an aero table some measurements would be fantastic... depth is probably going to play a crucial part in this... remember, a HDD, PSU, fans, controller hack, etc, have to fit in... I think it's going to be cosy but I think there should be enough space.

I also think, looking at previous projects using PSONE TFTs a one player control panel is the one to opt for... perhaps have a secondary port elsewhere on the cab so that if a second (I suppose I could even put 3 and 4 ports in as well, but I'll have a think about that!) player wishes to play they can plug in a pad/stick of their own... it's just going to be too cramped otherwise!

[emphatic]

I have a feeling this thread will be filled with all sorts of awesomeness! 

[slapaham]

Hope so!

By the way, I will get your supergun off tomorrow - sorry for the delay on that! Had a busy weekend but not really a very good excuse...

[Gatsu]

this is gonna be a sweet project.

[slapaham]

Okay... so first step complete...

Usually I'm guilty of not taking step-by-step pics of my project so I'm going to make an effort with this one - probably easier as it's going to be built entirely indoors...

Step 1 - The Xbox... here is the lucky/poor sod whose going to be butchered...



Step 2 - take it to pieces...






WARNING - Xbox Nudity - here's the mobo and PSU - you can separate the two but the linking cable just wouldn't budge... to be honest, it can probably stay as it is - as long as the cable is long enough it can probably fit below or above accordingly... Measurements of the mobo are approx. 20cm by 22cm - so not too bad at all! Depth is roughly 3.8cm - again, not too bad!



The sad, empty carcass... luckily, I had a spare power PCB, fan and controller ports - that meant I didn't have to go through the nightmare of taking the case totally pieces - having done this previously, I can safely say this IS NOT fun! (probably on par with trying to remove the PSU cable from the mobo - my fingers still hurt and I never even managed in the end! )



'Bonus Material' - I found what looks like a grasshopper under the PSU... don't even ask me how this got in here! What have the previous owners or Microsoft been doing with this console!? By the way, if anyone was interested - I got this Xbox for around a tenner... not bad!



The empty casing - what to with it!? Not sure! I now have 2 empty Xbox cases - did, at one point, have the intention of spraying and decorating one for a nice case mod but don't think I can bothered anymore! If anyone in the UK wants to do this, send me a message and I'd be happy to sell at least one of the cases!



So here are all the bits I need from the Xbox... pad to be hacked for controls, DVD drive may or not be used - if it is used the board will be ripped from it to trick the mobo into thinking it's still there but I think I will probably just do a TSOP flash which will mean this isn't necessary! Cable at the bottom is a Nokia/Ipod video composite cable - bought for a mere 30p a few months back... this will be the simplest way of connecting the Xbox to the PSOne TFT - awaiting a composite coupler - and already have the Xbox composite AV cable awaiting. HDD may be upgraded - we'll wait and see!


Next step... modding the Xbox probably... and dismantling the PSOne TFT when it arrives (hopefully in the next day or so!) Could also do with starting to draw up the plans but this will probably happen after I've dismantled the TFT as I'll have a better idea of what needs to go in and where!

[slapaham]

Just remembered to look through my box of spare Sanwa/Seimitsu stuff... made me think, what would be the best control panel layout - think it has to be 1player 3button... also made me consider other aspects (I looked at Japandeal Shop before I realised I have a box full of parts already! ) - I wondered whether a coin slot might be nice - they had one for 8 euros - nice small one - then I thought about it logically... this thing is going to be so diddy that a coin slot would just be impractical and what's the point anyway!? So back to rooting about in the spares to find another small sanwa/seimitsu button for 'add a credit' (this will probably be positioned under the control panel along with a power up and down button)

Here's the bits I pulled out for the top section of the control panel anyway - could probably do with getting a couple more buttons in - ideally a set of 3 buttons the same colour would be best! and I'd quite like to keep tradition and have a yellow start button... I may even be able to do some swapping around with my cabs to achieve a set of 3 and a yellow...

[HaRuMaN]

I really want one of those Sega Aero tables... 

[slapaham]

Haha, yeah me too... they are nice - however, not easy to get hold of and rather expensive!

Just managed to find a set of 3 red buttons (quite happy with that!), a couple of yellows (although I have a feeling both may have had it - if I can get one working, that's all I need - otherwise I have a purple or an orange!), I'm going to use the red with the black edge as the power button - seems logical - as to where I'm mounting this - not sure yet - probably a good idea to mount it away from the credit button thinking about it! Whichever colour button is spare after all this will be the credit button mounted underneath the control panel.

1 player, 3 button set up seems best to me as it's going to be a very small panel - the buttons I'm using are the 24mm buttons by the way - just in case you couldn't see from the photos - these are typically used as the 'start' buttons on Japanese control panels.

[HaRuMaN]

Hmm...  I see a full size replica in my future...  I really like the shape / colors

[Yvan256]

Interesting projects, however I'm not so sure about the screen/motherboard size ratio. You'll probably end up with a much bigger bezel than the original cabinet.

Also, mini-ITX is 6.75" x 6.75", so it's smaller than an Xbox motherboard. Not to mention that you can use a pico-PSU with a mini-ITX while you're stuck with that huge power supply block for the Xbox, not to mention the big external brick too. 

I can't wait to see the end results though, especially the CNC'ed parts. Do you have a 3D rendering of what your project should look like in the end?

[HaRuMaN]

Wot?  The original Xbox doesn't have an external brick.

[emphatic]

It would be really cool if you could make/create a small SEGA cabinet coin entry in plastic and glue that onto your credit button with a routed slot around it so that only the coin slot protrudes. This would give the illusion of an actual coin entry but it's really a button.

And as the SEGA cabinet uses a CRT, you should have some room underneath the monitor should your decide to mount anything vertically, right?

[Yvan256]

Wot?  The original Xbox doesn't have an external brick.

My mistake. I was thinking about the Xbox 360, which has an external power brick almost as big as my Mac mini. 

[slapaham]

Interesting projects, however I'm not so sure about the screen/motherboard size ratio. You'll probably end up with a much bigger bezel than the original cabinet.

Also, mini-ITX is 6.75" x 6.75", so it's smaller than an Xbox motherboard. Not to mention that you can use a pico-PSU with a mini-ITX while you're stuck with that huge power supply block for the Xbox, not to mention the big external brick too. 

I can't wait to see the end results though, especially the CNC'ed parts. Do you have a 3D rendering of what your project should look like in the end?

You may be right that ratio won't be spot on but I still think it can be done without looking too much out of proportion...

Mini-ITX would be ideal in some aspects but the main barrier to using one is cost - I cannot really justify it. Plus, I think that the Xbox is a great bit of cheap hardware that would be ideal for this in terms of usability, booting and general slickness.

Until I get the other components there is little point in drawing up any solid plans - they will be what I base the design on. I may find that the design just doesn't work with the components (like you said, ratios, etc) and I may change the design entirely - other cocktail designs may lend themselves more kindly - I'll just have to wait and see!

I think a cardboard mockup would probably be the best way of seeing what is achievable when the screen turns up!

[slapaham]

Also, I'd argue that the PSU isn't THAT big... not massively bigger than a mini ATX anyway! I don't think it should cause any problems anyway - as mentioned, the fact the original cab used a CRT will buy me a fair bit of depth!

EDIT: Just trying to find some more top plan view photos of the bezel of the original cab... these are the best I can find at the moment -

http://media.photobucket.com/image/sega%20aero%20table/drboom/aerotable.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/sega%20aero%20table/beaglepussband/stupid%20shit/101_0094.jpg

From the looks of it, the bezel is quite big in comparison to the screen - the angle bits at the side could allow for a little more leeway - ratio-wise, I agree I think that the bezel will be a bit bigger with what I'm intending to do but I never intended this to be an EXACT replica (just a close one) - just as long as it's not noticeable and doesn't look daft then that's fine with me!

emphatic - like your idea - I'll consider it... shame I didn't keep any of the spare Sega coin slots I had when I was working on the Astros... would have made life easier for that idea... anyway... I'll give it some thought... quite like the premise! Also, your Supergun was sent today!

[emphatic]

Also, your Supergun was sent today!

Awesome! 

Here's some more pictures of the Aero Table: http://www.hard--candy.com/index.asp?page=Aero+Table

This one in particular is a quite good reference:


It seems that the bezel is like those of most Japanese cabinets; it makes the whole monitor including it square, so that when rotated it will fill the same space.

[crashwg]

Not to mention that you can use a pico-PSU with a mini-ITX while you're stuck with that huge power supply block for the Xbox

I'm too lazy to go find an example but someone had definitely used a Pico-PSU in an XBOX.  I was actually planing on using one in a project I was working on squeezing an XBOX into a Morex Cubid 3688.  In the end I decided it was too much effort and that I don't really mind the look of the GIGANTIC XBOX all that much.

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with but I'm not too sure how closely it will resemble the original though...  I did a quick M$ Paint job of the comparison of the screen to the mobo and the ratio is more than a little off.  See bellow.

[Yvan256]

Well, here is what I found about the PSOne LCD display.

Screen Dimensions:
- Width: 4" (10.16cm)
- Height: 3" (7.62cm)
- Diagonal: 5" (12.70cm)

And you say the XBox motherboard is 20x22cm. I also found a website with a Sketchup model for the PSOne LCD, though as you can see there is a difference between the information I found and that model (notice the black border around the two LCD areas).

This is what I get when I use those sizes in Pages (please note the blue LCD area dimensions are rotated 90 degres, i.e. like the text on it):

[drventure]

Cool project. The Xbox innards reminds me of my tivos guts, though the tivo was a whole lot easier to dismantle than that xbox sounds like it was!

Looking forward to what you come up with!

[slapaham]

Thanks for the help guys! The ratios are going to be off but oh well, I still think it will look fine... The bezel isn't going to be overly-sized really and you could argue the panel isn't going to be spot on because it'll be huge in comparison to the rest of the cab!

The TFTs arrived today -



£15 each posted - probably could have got them cheaper if I was really, really patient! But still not bad... buy it nows...

Here's a crap pic of one of them on top of the mobo...



While it's not very clear, you can at least see that the proportions resemble the diagram by Yvan256 (thanks everyone who mocked stuff up!) - personally, the proportions look good - however, the width is going to be around 1-1.5 cm deeper than first anticipated because of the AV lead being plugged in - I will have to strip this down so it isn't so rigid and can bend to make the measurements smaller... if this whole plan goes tits up, as I said before, I will just rethink the casing - perhaps opt for a different cocktail plan - there has to be one that will be well-suited...

[slapaham]

Here's some modded versions of Yvan256's diagrams.

This one makes the ratio a bit clearer -



This one possibly factors is the white casing seen around the black bezel area - may be possible with how the layout of the mobo will probably pan out (in reference to the angled corners!)



I think the ratios look fairly good...

Bezel is obviously a bit bigger than the originals but as long as it doesn't look daft this was never going to be a 100% portrayal of the original... just as long as it looks convincing to the untrained eye that's okay with me!

[slapaham]

Okay... both screens tested now... wanted to do this before I started hacking - both okay!




Onto decasing - lots of concealed screws but fairly easy stuff -



The guts...



The sorry carcass of yet another obsolete piece of technology - this will probably just be binned - not a lot can be done with this - I'll keep it until the project is complete just in case!



Just awaiting the RCA coupler which I stupidly bought from the US for more expensive than domestically!

Talked to the CNC guy and he says he should be able to help me out...

[emphatic]

Talked to the CNC guy and he says he should be able to help me out...

Awesome!

[Pinball Wizard]

Just awaiting the RCA coupler which I stupidly bought from the US for more expensive than domestically!

Not from the US I guess? Great to hear that you can get use of the CNC machine. I'm looking at building a CNC machine in the next year or two. Gathering my parts slowly.

[slapaham]

Thought I'd be clever and try and make a shorter lead and skip the coupler and join it myself... cut them all up and realised it is far to fiddly to do... so that's great, that is!

I probably have a few spare leads but I've just wasted 2 ipod video cables and a Xbox composite... what a waste... oh well, you live and learn I guess! No real harm done either...

[slapaham]

So TSOP should be done... hopefully... I guess once I attempt the flash I'll know for sure but it seems like I've done it correctly - Xbox still works, so that's promising but I stupidly shocked myself trying it out... such an amateur mistake - having a bad day on this! Also, burnt myself with the soldering iron...

BIOS also created - no boot up snizzle to worry about anymore hopefully - used Xbtool to get rid of all that garb... also, removed the need for a DVD drive as well... just need to hunt down the 'mod game' and I can flash the buggar!

Having had the disaster with carving up 3 cables today I have found 2 cables to replace 2 out of the 3 (I only need 2 to do this project but needed the other one for another - I best order another off ebay I suppose! ) - with hindsight, I know that I should be patient and wait for the coupler - it means the cab is going to be full to the gills with unnecessarily long cables though but it shouldn't hinder the design. Just have to tie them up tightly I suppose. Anyway, making some nice progress... once I get the 'mod game' I'll fully set up the Xbox... then I guess the next step will be hacking the controls!

Then after that, making the plans with the measurements I have... input from you guys would be very helpful on this... then once that's done, pass them onto my CNC bud and wait until he gets a moment to do them for me! He said he couldn't put any time frame on it so that may be the bit I have to be most patient with!

[Turnarcades]

Not sure how small you're really going to be able to go with this as you have to consider the mounting methods, airflow and wiring hack space - it may have been better to go with an ex-POS kiosk monitor closer to 10".

Nice idea, though I'd maybe have gone smaller using a EEE PX, PSP, GP2X Wiz or Pandora (yeah, I know, if it ever comes good!)

[slapaham]

It was important to do this on a budget... hence the options I've chosen... I still think this is going to be a diddy project... it's just getting the casing right... in terms of airflow, etc... I think I've got my bases cover on that... So far, the budget hasn't come to anymore than £30 the lot... I like the interface the Xbox provides as well... anyway, only time will tell as to how well this will work! One thing is for sure, I think I'll be happy with it if I getting it all working anyway.

Anyways, was taking a look at controller hacks last night and I have really difficulty getting inside of the official pads (and they are meant to be a bit fiddly to solder)... so I had a root around and found this...



...something I was trying to offload but never managed to...

So I opened it up...

The main PCB... The buttons directly push onto the contacts which are black but seem to be on top of gold contacts - how would I solder to these? Need some advice on this...



These 2 little PCBs are the autofire, start, select and 'stick select' - all very handy features to have that I should be able to mount somewhere in the cab... they have nice BIG solder points so I will have no worries with these and the switches already have plastic switches attached so I will just mount these to the outside of the cab (for the ones I think are necessary!)




Here are the joystick solder points on the main PCB... it appears that 2 wires are coming from each...



Sorry for the pic quality, but these are the 2 wires making their way to the stick directions... does anyone think it will just be a case of cutting the wire, attaching them to the new stick?



On the bottom of the stick is a 'rumble motor' - if I was to cut the wires and tape the ends up it shouldn't cause a problem, should it? Just don't think there is anyway I would want or like to utilise this feature in the design!

Advice please control hackers out there! Thanks people! 

[emphatic]

You're wearing shorts, right? 

[Ryglore]

You're wearing shorts, right? 

If he's like me, I do my best work pantsless. 

[slapaham]

Wow, my knee looks hairy on camera!

Yes, I am... no nude craftmanship here!

Even though it's winter pretty much here we have the heating on far too high!

[IG-88]

Me thoughts that was the top of your head maybe...?

Weird way to take pics. 

[slapaham]

Right, enough comments about my knee for god's sake!

If I was taking pictures to beautify the project I'd have trained to be a fashion photographer! I take the pictures as quickly as possible which, by the looks of it, involves me resting it on my leg and shooting it.

It isn't my head, it's my knee... I am not THAT old and I have quite long locks! Now, let's move on!

Project Update: 2nd December 2009...

Well, the Xbox is now TSOPed - first time I've done it and it really was a pretty easy process... custom BIOS now installed so no splash screens, or flubbers or logos... 3-4 seconds of black screen followed by... well, once I've put it on the HDD... MAME... this really will be the quickest (and most seamless) way I can think of booting into MAME... a PC would take a fair bit longer than that! Making custom BIOS has also allowed me to run the Xbox without the DVD drive making the whole thing A LOT smaller... replaced the IDE cable with a more streamlined one socketer and removed the players 3&4 control ports... pictures to come but it's slimming down quite nicely and running well to boot! Eventually will have to extend a few wires like those that run from the PSU to the mobo and the fan wiring - this will allow them to positioned under the mobo making the design more compact - this should be very easy stuff considering I'm just going to use these to achieve it -




I've also decided that I may well attempt to hard-wire the screen into the mobo - it seems like this would be the most compact way of doing it... hopefully I won't regret it if I give it a go... also, if I do it fully, then powering the Xbox on will also power the screen on too meaning one PSU and a more seamless system...