Tearing

[Avinitlarge]

I have had a problem with mame ever since I started back in 2001.

On Horizontal scrolling games, I get tearing. It has happened with every version of mame and Computer that I have used. I have AVGA in my cab and it still does it with that. It is more noticable on Pacland which I like to play.  I am using Command line Mame in my cab and Mameui on my desktop.

It has done it on every computer ive had. That is 4 different computers, 4 completly different motherboards, 4 Completly different Graphics cards, The monitor cable was built into every monitor. It did in on Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP SP2 and XP SP3.

If I turn "Refresh Speed" on the line goes from top to bottom instead of bottom to top

If I turn "Wait for vertical sync" on the tearing has gone but the game seems very slighty jumpy.

If I turn "Sync to monitor refresh" on the game seems alot better but the sound isnt 100%.

If I turn "Triple Buffering" on the game seems alot better but the sound isnt 100%.

Is there any other way around it?

[Kevin Mullins]

What kind of monitor ?

[Avinitlarge]

Its a WG K7000 in my cab

[Kevin Mullins]

Have you tried manually adjusting the 50/60 Hz pot on the chassis ?
(or any other monitor chassis adjustments for that matter?)

Just like any other "arcade" monitor, regardless of what you do on the PC you may have to physically make adjustments on the monitor itself.
(heck, this is even true with regular "arcade" game boards running on these monitors)

Find the worst case scenario, like you mentioned with Pacland, and adjust while looking at that. 

[Avinitlarge]

Do you know what? I didnt even realise it had one until 2 mins ago. Ive never noticed the pot before. Ive have the chassis out god knows how many times too. I will give that a twiddle and see what happens

[Avinitlarge]

I adjusted it. All that happened is that the frame folded at the top. Nothing else

[Zebidee]

Screen tearing is a common problem.

Unfortunately, fiddling with monitor pots is unlikely to do much. You'll need to look at your MAME settings.

Aside from sensible resolution choices (one close to the original will help, both in terms of pixels and refresh rates), you need triplebuffer=1 for those problem games.

However, you can't use triplebuffer=1 as a 'global' MAME tearing solution as some games get sound problems with it on (as you know).

That means you'll just have to live with a bit of tearing for some games - although you may also be able to ease the problem for particular games by sensible resolution choices and using other settings, like the ones you mentioned.

[Avinitlarge]

I think this is one of those problems I will always have no matter what. Ive tried setting the resolution close to the original but it was still the same. I think I will just give up on trying to get shot of it. I will leave the triplebuffer on as I can put up with a slight stutter on the sound every minute or so, I can put up with the tearing though

[Kevin Mullins]

I only talk adjustments in an "arcade" sense, so bear with me as you guys talk all the mamer mumbo jumbo.

I've seen tearing on that particular model chassis when the contrast is too high, brightness/contrast too high, 50/60Hz off a bit, etc. Some games are definitely worse than others. Just worth trying minor chassis adjustments here and there to see if it helps any at all, along with MAME settings.

What kind of resolution are you running at BTW ?

[Zebidee]

I've seen tearing on that particular model chassis when the contrast is too high, brightness/contrast too high, 50/60Hz off a bit, etc. Some games are definitely worse than others. Just worth trying minor chassis adjustments here and there to see if it helps any at all, along with MAME settings.

What kind of resolution are you running at BTW ?

Yeah, it can't hurt to adjust that 50/60hz pot and see if it makes a difference.

Also, what games cause the probs for you?

[Avinitlarge]

I have adjusted the 50/60hz pot, The frame just folded at the top. Pacland and R Type are games I play alot and it does in on them. I am running 640X480

[Kevin Mullins]

I am running 640X480

Try lowering that a bit ....... here's what's stated in the K7000 manual.

[Jack Burton]

you might try using Sailor Sat's cabmame.  It has a feature called sound sync that changes the pitch of sound effects rather than making the game stutter.  I think it is a nice compromise.

[Zebidee]

Why run everything in 640x480 when you have a CGA monitor?

Try playing your games in something closer to their native resolutions and you'll have a lot less trouble.

[Avinitlarge]

Why run everything in 640x480 when you have a CGA monitor?

Try playing your games in something closer to their native resolutions and you'll have a lot less trouble.

I am still in the middle of setting everything up. 640X480 is "What I think" the best resolution for using windows. Once everything is setup It doesnt matter about windows, I will then change the resolution to something closer to what the games are. I could be completly wrong about the windows resolutions, I am a noob to this so maybe some one knows different

[Zebidee]

Screen 'tearing' is fundamentally related to the difference between the monitor refresh speed that the game expects (refer game info) vs the refresh speed you monitor actually has for the video mode it is in.

So, use an appropriate resolution for the game. Once you get that right then you'll be able to worry about other issues like tearing, if it is still a problem.

640x480 is mainly just good for windows desktop and as a default resolution, but that is about it. If you're gonna run in 640x480 you had better also make sure that your video card is setup to output it at 60hz, as the default is likely something like 200hz.

[Zebidee]

(accidental post)

[technocop]

Jack Burton and Zebidee have nailed the problem for you here, you need SailorSat's sound hack.

A lot of the time you'll never eliminate screen tear, you simply can't do it unless you're running an identical refresh rate to the original game. Lots of games run at weird refresh rates, so there's nowt you can do about it (except use SailorSat's sound hack).

Like Zebidee said, you can twiddle with the monitor pots all day, but it won't achieve anything

More info in this thread
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=94426.msg993289#msg993289

[Ummon]

<....murmurs advancemame....>


Or, you give off weird psychic disturbance.

[Avinitlarge]

Ive tried Cabmame. The tearing has gone but the sound pitch is all over the place. Also, The screen is tiny. How do I go about making an ini file for Cabmame??

[Zebidee]

Is the search function on this forum working yet?

You could have a look on the software forum ... ?

Or you could try switchres=1 in your .ini file.

[Avinitlarge]

Is the search function on this forum working yet?

You could have a look on the software forum ... ?

Or you could try switchres=1 in your .ini file.

Ive tried it, Its still small. Is it the same ini file that mame uses?

#
# WINDOWS VIDEO OPTIONS
#
video                     ddraw
numscreens                1
window                    0
maximize                  1
keepaspect                1
prescale                  1
effect                    none
waitvsync                 0
syncrefresh               0

#
# DIRECTDRAW-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
hwstretch                 1

#
# DIRECT3D-SPECIFIC OPTIONS
#
d3dversion                9
filter                    1

#
# PER-WINDOW VIDEO OPTIONS
#
screen                    auto
aspect                    auto
resolution                auto
view                      auto
screen0                   auto
aspect0                   auto
resolution0               auto
view0                     auto
screen1                   auto
aspect1                   auto
resolution1               auto
view1                     auto
screen2                   auto
aspect2                   auto
resolution2               auto
view2                     auto
screen3                   auto
aspect3                   auto
resolution3               auto
view3                     auto

#
# FULL SCREEN OPTIONS
#
triplebuffer              0
switchres                 0
full_screen_brightness    1.0
full_screen_contrast      1.0
full_screen_gamma         1.0

[Zebidee]

switchres=1
hwstretch=0

After getting those settings right, you can work out what else is going on.

[Avinitlarge]

Nope, Still cant get a full screen

[Zebidee]

Your game-specific .ini files are used preferentially by mame. So you have to delete all your old [romname].ini files (in the INI directory) as well. Otherwise, changes to mame.ini won't mean anything. If you are using mameui, that has another mameui32.ini file too (or equivalent). Delete or edit them all.

[Avinitlarge]

I cant find any game-specific .ini files or an ini folder. I only have a cfg folder with .cfg files. Im using command line by the way

[Zebidee]

Well, mame automatically (by default) creates a folder called "INI" in your MAME directory, and that's where the ini files go.

It is the same whether you use cmd line mame or not.

Try different games and see if your problem is consistent.

You could try for a fresh install of mame, but this should be unnecessary.

[Avinitlarge]

Well, mame automatically (by default) creates a folder called "INI" in your MAME directory, and that's where the ini files go.

It is the same whether you use cmd line mame or not.

Try different games and see if your problem is consistent.

You could try for a fresh install of mame, but this should be unnecessary.

I have MameUI, Mame 0.134 and Cabmame 0.134.
I have the ini folder in MAMEUI G:\Emulators\MAME 32\MameUI32\ini

But no ini folder for Mame 0.134 or Cabmame 0.134.

MameUI is on drive G:. Mame 0.134 and Cabmame 0.134 are both on drive H: and are both in seperate folders

[Zebidee]

Sooooo .... how do you specify resolutions for games?

[Avinitlarge]

Ive not been able to specify resolutions for games. This is baking my head.

[Zebidee]

Why not use MameUI32? It is easier than cmd line, simple GUI. Just right-click on the game, and go to the screen tab. You can change resolutions there.

In fact, I usually use mameui32 to edit my game resolutions & .ini files, before I return to MameWAH and load the game via cmd line..

However, to take full advantage of that, you would need to be running mameui32 in the SAME folder as Mame so that they share game-specific .ini files (which you currently are not doing).

[Ummon]

Dude, read the help files in MAMEUI/MAME.

[Zebidee]

Dude, read the help files in MAMEUI/MAME.

Couldn't agree more.

[Avinitlarge]

The reason I am using command line mame in my cab is because, I read on here somewhere "Why use a GUI inside a front end". Ive read the help file and can't find anything about the ini folder

[Zebidee]

Even cmd line mame automatically uses ini files from default locations.

Ya gotta walk before ya can run. Use Mameui32 first and get games looking right on that before playing with stuff you clearly don't really understand yet.

[Avinitlarge]

Ok, I will do that. Thanks

[Ummon]

That's a good lad.

[Zebidee]

That's a good lad.

enuf already!

[Ummon]

Awww, come oon. Just rufflin 'is hair.  (Now watch, he be a bald 'ead, an I and I bee en reel troble.)