Its Here: Ultimarc AimTrak Light Gun Module

[Dannymh]

I opened up the gun casing on my gincon2 el cheapo and I am going to have a hard time converting this one to an aim trak. I think I might wait until andy gets the gun housings too and just order up the whole lot at once

Any news on when the casings i.e full units might be ready Andy?

[Neverending Project]

I've played around with my wiimote on my cab and I've found the following issues to ring true.  Someone please let me know if they exist on this product.

1.  You have to stand really far away if you have a large monitor.  This is just due to the fact that the camera needs to see the full led strip.  For my 27 inch monitor You have to stand about 3-4 feet back, which isn't terrible, but space is tight where I have my cab.  

2.  It's hard to get pixel-accurate tracking... especially if your cab's monitor is angled.  I managed to get within a half an inch, which is acceptable, but the offset got worse depending upon what angle I stood at.  

3.  The thing actually does have an issue with glass.  If the angle is just right and your led strip/sensor bar is mounted behind the glass then the glass can create ghost images of the leds, which causes accuracy issues.  Of course it's not a problem if you mount the leds outside the glass, but then you see them.

1. Yes, this is still true for a big monitor. Although it is not nearly as far as with an LCD topgun, which is also LED based. I would say about 3 feet would be fine for a 27" monitor.

2. True to an extent, but better than you think. I did a test when the AimTrak first came out, and found that in the center it tracked right on, and on the edges it was off by by as much as a quarter or half of an inch (29" monitor standing about 4 feet back). But since then Andy has updated the firmware addressing the edge discrepancies, and I haven't done any qualitative testing since. Subjectively, I would say it is better, especially with respect to shooting from side angles.

3.  I have plexi, so I don't think the reflection would cause the same issues. I did have an issue with a large chandelier in my room, that was reflecting off the monitor causing interference. Switching to CFL bulbs eliminated that problem.

I tried the wiimote a year or two ago, and to be honest I could never even get it to work reliably enough to use it in MAME. I tried a specified bluetooth adapter, installed the suggested bluetooth stack, and yet I still had constant problems trying to pair it with my PC. I have a feeling the tracking is much better on the AimTrak (compared to a wiimote), but I can't give you a direct comparison.

But I can say that the wiimote pairing issues alone was enough to make me not want to try to go through that mess again. And to comment on the accuracy of the AimTrak, it may not be pixel perfect, but it is pretty awesome. I think most people fall into one of two camps - those that use the cursor while playing, and those who don't. Those who do will find the gun to feel exceptionally accurate. And most of those who fall in the latter camp will find the accuracy feels great.

Oh, and in case you haven't heard, Andy plans on offering a complete gun option for sale. But there are no details on what it will look like, how much it will cost, or even when it will be complete.

Hope this helps.

[Dannymh]

I have tried the wii controllers before mainly when they first came out, but again a few weeks ago, they just dont have the same accuracy or indeed the accuracy required for this operation.

Personally i have waited years and am willing to wait until Andy has the full units outs so I can just order them up. Topguns just aren't good enough and I don't see wii motes as even accurate enough to play some of the games designed for the wii

[Xiaou2]

Andys device IS basically a Wiimote,   so its not going to be more accurate than
a Topgun.

[Cananas]

Andys device IS basically a Wiimote,   so its not going to be more accurate than
a Topgun.

Probably the same accurate. Think that the LCDTopGun is another "wiimote", like you said.

[Neverending Project]

Andys device IS basically a Wiimote,   so its not going to be more accurate than
a Topgun.

Just because they are both based on the same technology does not mean they are the same accuracy. I can't compare the two because I have never used a topgun, but there is a lot more to the accuracy than just using an LED bar.

[northerngames]

1.  You have to stand really far away if you have a large monitor.  This is just due to the fact that the camera needs to see the full led strip.  For my 27 inch monitor You have to stand about 3-4 feet back, which isn't terrible, but space is tight where I have my cab.

mine are on a 39" showcase and you can stand right at the pedestal or around 4 foot behind and it still works.. So far it has the topgun and act labs beat becuase it works farther then the act labs and closer then the lcd topguns.

the lcd topguns I had would never work right up on the pedestal at all and if you stand back like the tpguns the act labs dont work right  

2.  It's hard to get pixel-accurate tracking... especially if your cab's monitor is angled.  I managed to get within a half an inch, which is acceptable, but the offset got worse depending upon what angle I stood at.

 These are way more accrute then the lcd topguns when tuned in manually for the game in question most I have tinkered with run dead nuts without issue if you stand somehwere else recalibrate it.  

3.  The thing actually does have an issue with glass.  If the angle is just right and your led strip/sensor bar is mounted behind the glass then the glass can create ghost images of the leds, which causes accuracy issues.  Of course it's not a problem if you mount the leds outside the glass, but then you see them.

mine is behind plexi also but it bears no issue at all.

I also noticed that the act labs and lcd topgun act up in failing/dim light where the aimtrak works with lights on all around it still once it's calibrated correctly the light dont bother it like they did the other guns make's..

I have owned all the pc lightguns except the wiimote and the aimtrak has my vote and with the real arcade 6 shooters it has the real arcade look and feel and mad dog plays just like I remembered it in the arcade years ago in there showcase cab.

as far as I know my guns are just as accurate if not better then the arcade's machine they had.

I put my led stand on two sided tape and put it right on the glass tube that is extra screen that goes behind the monitor bezel so the only thing that sticks out is the leds bulbs on the verry bottom lip of the monitors bezel top part.

if you stand at the pedestal you cannot even see or tell where they are at.

that is another plus with these I was able to hide the led bar where the lcd topguns led bars looked kinda silly hanging all over the place on a 39" shopwcase arcade cab

I would take them 6 shooter's over a wiimote any day even if the wiimote was 100% dead nuts accurate its still a wiimote 

[Xiaou2]

The Topguns have better accuracy due to the fact that the gun is the sensor,
rather than the tv bars being the sensor.  There is no denying that fact.

 I bet you play lightgun games with the Cursor "ON" dont you?
Sorry, but thats Not how 99% of arcade gun games work,
as that takes the Skill out of the game.  

 Using a cursor is about the only way you could use the aimtrack accurately.
The Topguns are superior even with their quirks.

[TheShanMan]

X, clearly you bought an aimtrack if you're making a statement of fact like that, right? Did you write up a review of it? I'd like to read it. Though I half doubt whether you actually own one (in which case you don't have much basis for making your claims of fact), I really don't mean it to sound like sarcasm. I may very well have missed your review and would like to read it.

[Neverending Project]

The Topguns have better accuracy due to the fact that the gun is the sensor,
rather than the tv bars being the sensor.  There is no denying that fact.

False. The AimTrak has the sensor in the gun. The LED strip is simply a strip of LEDs.

I bet you play lightgun games with the Cursor "ON" dont you?
Sorry, but thats Not how 99% of arcade gun games work,
as that takes the Skill out of the game.  

False.

Using a cursor is about the only way you could use the aimtrack accurately.

Again, I can't comment on the topguns because I have never tried them. But I can comment on the AimTrak, and this is also false.

The Topguns are superior even with their quirks.

Have you ever used the AimTrak?

[Ginsu Victim]

Truth.

[Xiaou2]

Actually, your correct.  My mistake.

 My gripe with it was actually that there is only One sensor set, rather than 2 or
more, for actual arcade level accuracy.

 The tech is not impressive.

[Howard_Casto]

Actually, your correct.  My mistake.

 My gripe with it was actually that there is only One sensor set, rather than 2 or
more, for actual arcade level accuracy.

 The tech is not impressive.

Agreed... this is my issue.  On the arcade cabinets these days there is an array of ir bars to keep the guns accurate.  I don't think they'd do that unless it was necessary. 

Thanks for all the help guys, but it's only slightly helpful because none of you have really used the wiimote AND the aimtrack. Also I hate to burst everyone's bubble but there is a major difference between the wiimote and the topguns.  The main thing is the wiimote, believe it or not, has a pretty sophistiacted tracking system built into the wiimote itself.  There's a chip that analyzes the image data before it even makes it to the wii/pc.  This means a noticable speed boost in tracking.  Afaik the topguns don't do this.  I also don't know what the aimtrack does to track things, but seeing as how it has actual firmware i'd say it's pretty sophistiacted as well.  The wiimotes motion sensors can be used to compensate for some issues as well.  Since there are no "drivers" for the wiimote on the pc, software plays a major role here.  Since the latest release of glovepie, ir tracking has GREATLY improved.

 I think I'll have to whip out my sensor bar and do a current review of the wiimotes.

[Ginsu Victim]

Thanks for all the help guys, but it's only slightly helpful because none of you have really used the wiimote AND the aimtrack.

There's a very good chance that anyone that has an AimTrak has used a Wiimote before. I own both and I can't be alone in this.

[Ragtag83]

I never owned or used the wiimote but my brother had. The cursing that came from him from that thing made me look into something else. Sure, maybe in the future the drivers for it might make it a great solution to lightgun games but the AimTrak works now, and without the giant headache. The only thing that may slow it down, though a plus in my mind, is that you need to wire it up yourself. Though I do believe most people on this site probably like DIY projects. It's why we're here isn't it?

[Howard_Casto]

Thanks for all the help guys, but it's only slightly helpful because none of you have really used the wiimote AND the aimtrack.

There's a very good chance that anyone that has an AimTrak has used a Wiimote before. I own both and I can't be alone in this.

Well in all the replies I got none of the people compared it to the wiimote, rather they compared it to the lcd topguns, which are NOT the same.  (I've tried both) so I've got to assume they never tried the wiimote, on the pc as a lightgun solution.

[AndyWarne]

There is an important difference between the AimTrak and the Wiimote even though the technology is similar.
The Wiimote is based on the design requirement that the cursor is moved relatively in the direction of the movement of the wiimote, nothing more. If you use a Wii you will find that the cursor can be moved from extreme left to extreme right of the screen with a relatively small movement of the hand.

If you have a requirement that the cursor must follow line-of-sight of the remote, then you run into a problem which is demonstrated by the topgun. The camera in the gun of course moves with the direction of pointing, so the camera instead of needing to see a small area, needs to see the LED bar when the gun is aimed at extreme left or right. This is why the Topgun needs to be so far away, and why the Wiimote will not work as a calibrated gun unless you are also far away from the screen.

The AimTrak uses a method of overcoming this limitation.

The arcade guns use many LEDs around the screen as has been mentioned. They also run into the same distance limitation as the Topgun because the camera needs to see all LEDs at all aiming locations.

[northerngames]

I can honostly say that I never got the lcd topguns as accurate as I got the aimtraks going.

I also had to use the cursor for topguns to be playable but not the aimtrak as someone mentioned prior.

Plus 90% of the games have a cusror in game anyhow so wether you use it on the 4-5 games that usually dont have one big deal anyhow play them on nes instead...

I have played a wii with the wiimote but never a pc but I know what andy is talking about how you barely move the wiimote left or right and your on each side of the screen's borders plus the trigger dont feel like a real metal arcade gun trigger either.

I will have to barrow my sister's wiimote and give it a try but I dont see them being better then the aimtrak at all or even close otherwise everyone and there brother would be using them already instead  

[Turnarcades]

The LCD Topguns sucked balls. Sorry if anyone disagrees and I've not yet took a risk with the Aimtrak, but I advise anyone considering Topguns not to bother.

[Xiaou2]

Plus 90% of the games have a cusror in game anyhow so wether you use it on the 4-5 games that usually dont have one big deal anyhow play them on nes instead...

 Thats utter BS.

 Almost All lightgun games do NOT show a cursor.  Most especially GOOD games worth playing.
Mame allows you to see a visible cursor if you enable it - however, in the arcades, you WONT
see it.  For example Time Crisis, and Point Blanc.  Two of the biggest and most popular lightgun
games.

 I can list many that dont use a cursor:

 - Lethal Enforcers 1 & 2
 - Time Crisis (1,2,3....)
 - Police Trainer
 - Point Blanc (all)
 - Shooting Gallery (sega master system)

 And countless others.

 In fact, there are almost NO gun games in the arcades which show a cursor.
List more than 3 Punk. (And T2, and simular pot based games do not count, as they are not
lightgun games)

[Xiaou2]

The arcade guns use many LEDs around the screen as has been mentioned. They also run into the same distance limitation as the Topgun because the camera needs to see all LEDs at all aiming locations.

 Thats funny, cause when I played Time Crisis at the arcades, I stood 2ft away from the glass,
and had Pixel Perfect accuracy every time.

 The ability to see only a section of the LEDs is an excuse.
 
 There is no reason 2 (or more) LED bars could not be designed in a way in which they all
didnt need to be seen at once.

 (Even ignoring a wide angle lens)

 The goal is "Cheaper" and "Easier", rather than more accurate.

 Which is why I will not be purchasing one.   Give me arcade accuracy without need of a cheaters cursor ,or or forget it.

[northerngames]

Xiaou2 Have you even tried one yet?

[Ginsu Victim]

Thanks to the latest firmware, I DO turn the cursor off now.

[1UP]

Thanks to the latest firmware, I DO turn the cursor off now.

I second this.  I've done a lot of testing, and the important thing with the Aimtraks is to be at *approximately* the same distance whenever you play, height or small changes in angle do not seem to make much of a difference, just distance.  One way to deal with this would be to put a small throw rug in front of the cabinet to denote the firing zone.

The other main accuracy factor seems to be keeping the gun upright and not tilting side to side, especially when calibrating.  Once you get this right, the mouse cursor will stick to the gunsights pretty damn reliably.  It may not be strictly pixel accurate, but probably as close as you're going to get with current monitors, and with CRTs becoming rare, switching over is pretty much inevitable.

I'm tempted to make some kind of rig that allows me to aim my camcorder down the gunsights to show how accurate they are, but not sure how to do it quickly...

One of the nice things about these guns is that the calibration is initiated and stored within the gun, so you can play a week later and it's still good, even under a different version of Windows.  The ease of setup and not having to switch into different software to recalibrate gets my vote.

[XtraSmiley]

Thanks to the latest firmware, I DO turn the cursor off now.

I second this.  I've done a lot of testing, and the important thing with the Aimtraks is to be at *approximately* the same distance whenever you play, height or small changes in angle do not seem to make much of a difference, just distance.  One way to deal with this would be to put a small throw rug in front of the cabinet to denote the firing zone.

The other main accuracy factor seems to be keeping the gun upright and not tilting side to side, especially when calibrating.  Once you get this right, the mouse cursor will stick to the gunsights pretty damn reliably.  It may not be strictly pixel accurate, but probably as close as you're going to get with current monitors, and with CRTs becoming rare, switching over is pretty much inevitable.

I'm tempted to make some kind of rig that allows me to aim my camcorder down the gunsights to show how accurate they are, but not sure how to do it quickly...

One of the nice things about these guns is that the calibration is initiated and stored within the gun, so you can play a week later and it's still good, even under a different version of Windows.  The ease of setup and not having to switch into different software to recalibrate gets my vote.

For video proof, couldn't you mount a cheap cat toy laser onto the guy, calibrate to the laser and move the gun around to test?  Video proof for the rest of us, link to Youtube and voila!

[Dannymh]

Thanks to the latest firmware, I DO turn the cursor off now.

I second this.  I've done a lot of testing, and the important thing with the Aimtraks is to be at *approximately* the same distance whenever you play, height or small changes in angle do not seem to make much of a difference, just distance.  One way to deal with this would be to put a small throw rug in front of the cabinet to denote the firing zone.

The other main accuracy factor seems to be keeping the gun upright and not tilting side to side, especially when calibrating.  Once you get this right, the mouse cursor will stick to the gunsights pretty damn reliably.  It may not be strictly pixel accurate, but probably as close as you're going to get with current monitors, and with CRTs becoming rare, switching over is pretty much inevitable.

I'm tempted to make some kind of rig that allows me to aim my camcorder down the gunsights to show how accurate they are, but not sure how to do it quickly...

One of the nice things about these guns is that the calibration is initiated and stored within the gun, so you can play a week later and it's still good, even under a different version of Windows.  The ease of setup and not having to switch into different software to recalibrate gets my vote.

For video proof, couldn't you mount a cheap cat toy laser onto the guy, calibrate to the laser and move the gun around to test?  Video proof for the rest of us, link to Youtube and voila!

brilliant idea!

I would love to see this video and would prove a lot. Though I am just waiting for the full thing casing and all to be made and I will be buying them anyway

[Howard_Casto]

There is an important difference between the AimTrak and the Wiimote even though the technology is similar.
The Wiimote is based on the design requirement that the cursor is moved relatively in the direction of the movement of the wiimote, nothing more. If you use a Wii you will find that the cursor can be moved from extreme left to extreme right of the screen with a relatively small movement of the hand.

If you have a requirement that the cursor must follow line-of-sight of the remote, then you run into a problem which is demonstrated by the topgun. The camera in the gun of course moves with the direction of pointing, so the camera instead of needing to see a small area, needs to see the LED bar when the gun is aimed at extreme left or right. This is why the Topgun needs to be so far away, and why the Wiimote will not work as a calibrated gun unless you are also far away from the screen.

The AimTrak uses a method of overcoming this limitation.

The arcade guns use many LEDs around the screen as has been mentioned. They also run into the same distance limitation as the Topgun because the camera needs to see all LEDs at all aiming locations.

Good to know... software compensation for lack of a full ir array was one of my concerns.  However, the extensive arrays that arcade machines use are the SOLUTION to the distance problem, they are not limited by it.  They work on a real simple principle....  if they can't see all the ir leds but detect a "L" shape of leds then they know that the gun is in the bottom left corner ect.....  Since your firmware is upgradeable you should really experiment with a full array and see if you can improve the accuracy even more.  I would have no problem paying more for 4 strips instead of 1 if it meant I could stand closer and have greater accuracy.

[Howard_Casto]

On an unrelated note I told everyone that I would re-visit the wiimote solution and review it and I was rather amazed at the improvments that the author of glovepie has made software-wize to the program. 

First off the syncing issue no longer seems to be an issue.  Start up glovepie (or a script, doesn't matter) and press 1 or 2 and in a few seconds the windows "found a device" sound chimes and you are good to go.  Press the power button and it de-syncs.  No fuss, no muss.  It threw me for a loop because I was struggling to get it to work at first because I was syncing the wiimote manually via windows.  It turns out that you need to let glove pie do it for you.  Keep in mind I don't have special blue soeli drivers or a "supported" bluetooth dongle or anything..... I just plugged it in and it worked!  A HUGE improvment from past versions of glovepie. 

The new ir tracking impressed me more though.  Gone are the scripts that required calculations of the 4 or more points found to determine the wiimotes position.  Now golvepie outputs a simple x,y value like a regular mouse.  I guess the author is now doing it internally and boy did he do a good job.  I popped my wiimote into a nyko handgun shell and went to town.  The tracking is dead on pixel perfect, regardless of the distance or angle I shot at and no calibration was necessary!  Somehow it just worked!  I think this has to do with the fact that the size of the found ir points are reported as well as the position when you poll a wiimote.  There must be some fancy math going on behind the scenes to get this working so well.

Now with that being said, the distance limitations are still in effect.  You need to stand back to see the bar, which is expected of course.  Also the movement, while much less "laggy" than in previous versions seemed to be a tad jerky.  Not enough to effect gameplay mind you, but it was enough to be noticable if you move the cursor around the screen.  I'm using a cheap, homemade sensor bar though so that might be the issue. 

Keep in mind I did my testing on my pc though as my cab is undergoing an overhaul atm.  I'll report more once it's up and running again.

All-in-all though, I'd say I was impressed by the wiimotes performance, much more so than I was initially at golvepie version .29, when wiimote support was first added.  So it might be a more viable alternative than it was just a year or so ago.

[Xiaou2]

 Problem with guys like Andy, is that they think they know what everyone wants, Do not
every bother to ASK, ... and are Very stubborn to accept the fact that they were wrong
with their assumptions.

 As noted, it took nearly a page worth of complaints for him to decide to change the
function of the gun so the button could be held down for T2.

 No doubt, the thinking was: 
 
 a) to save costs
 b) That nobody would want a 4bar setup.

 In reality, people prefer accuracy - else we would stick with something like the Actlabs.
And, people are far more than willing to pay the extra to get that level of accuracy.  Me included.

 Four "L" Shaped brackets would probably do the trick.  Software & calibration could do the rest.

 (Or 2 bars that have L or Diagonal LED placed arrangements)

 Why is it so hard to Ask people what they would prefer?  Did Andy Really think Randy was hot
on his heels to make a Gun too?  Have to be realistic here.  Even if its a limited spectrum of
BYOAC'ers who sign an NDA, and can give feedback and input as things develop.

[saint]

 Problem with guys like Andy, is that they think they know what everyone wants, Do not
every bother to ASK, ...

... snip ...

 Why is it so hard to Ask people what they would prefer? 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=88636.0

[1UP]

  LOL, I was thinking the same thing Saint.  Now who was it that is always blaming others for not getting the FACTS straight?  Can't remember...

[Xiaou2]

 He ONLY asks the Distance of the gun from the screen.  No mention of number of bars,
sensitivity, accuracy... etc.

[northerngames]

I am not sure how close you really need to be without scratching your screen up with the barrels but they register fully on a 39" pretty much right up on it.

 I know smaller monitors means even closer distance and I dont see why ayone would want to go any closer then an arm lengh or less on a 39" it would look kinda funny and probably hurt the eye's

so the 4 led bars are not needed becuase the one it comes with works fine just bend the leds to where you normally stand as directed make sure the eye can see the leds and vice versa..

if you need to be right up on the screen for some reason make sure to recalibrate!!

need to go closer bend/angle the leds down a little more?

[Ragtag83]

Hmmmm, Xiaou2 you seem to know all the answers to all the issues. I'm sure you could make your own gun to your specifications and so then I wouldn't have to read all your negative posts to a product that no one is forcing you to purchase. Oh, and of course Andy wants to make money. He's not out to donate a few bucks into all our pockets. But to make money he needs a product that people want. To get that product, he listens to us. I have to say thank you to him for building a lightgun solution that was both affordable to me and works brilliantly. Is it perfect? I will honestly say no. Is it the best damn solution I have come across? Hell yes! Thank you Andy, keep up the good work!

Well, that was my little rant that I had to gt off my chest. I feel better now. Goodnight.

[1UP]

 He ONLY asks the Distance of the gun from the screen.  No mention of number of bars,
sensitivity, accuracy... etc.

Right, but you stated that he doesn't "every bother to ASK" (ever?) but that's still not enough, he needs to somehow know what questions you WANT to be asked.  You have to realize that not everyone has ESP like you do...  Maybe you should have brought it up at that time, while it was still in development and the dialogue was open?  If you read the rest of that thread, I believe he did listen to additional input on cost, ease of calibration, compatibility with generic gun shells, etc.  But I never saw a Tigger head in that thread...hmm....

[Xiaou2]

 Im not an electrical engineer.  Andy never directly said anything about number of bars,
and CONNECTING that data to Accuracy -vs- Costs.

 This was a personal Judgment call on his part as a hardware developer.

 If I had that skills Andy has, I would have directly mentioned that if I were to design a
lightgun with arcade level accuracy, it would have an additional +$15 added on the
pricetag.   Where as the reduced accuracy would have cost  $XX, and only have
one -vs- 2 or 4 bars.

 As a fellow arcade enthusiast, Ive blown money on 3 gun sets to this date.  2 of which were
completely un-usable.  And the 3rd, luckily, is accurate, but has flaws with distance.

 Im not about to drop any more money on Imperfect gun solutions.  When the time comes
and someone actually makes a gun which does not have live calibration loss and accuracy problems,
Ill buy 2, even if they cost $150 each.  Until then, no other MFG is getting a sale from my pocket,
and I assure you Im not alone in this, as not everyone is so vocal about it.

 This isnt about hurt feelings.  Its about Business.  And a good Business man is objective
enough to take criticisms, and adapt to the desires of the clients.   Unless they are fools... such as
the Topgun people who were warned that should they not fix the distance problem, others
would probably come in and make a new gun to compete.  Sure enough, that is what happened.

 (The Topgun people were also concerned that people wouldnt buy a higher priced gun. Too bad)

 If I took a Poll right this very minute, I doubt Anyone would tell me that they would prefer
a gun to have Less accuracy.  And if that poll asked if they could upgrade their existing gun
to be more accurate?  The answer would most certainly be  "Yes".

 The Wii mgfs didnt think accuracy was all that big of a deal... but what happened?  A new
attachment add on has spawned.  And soon, PS3 and 360 will have variations which will blow the
Wiimote out of the water.

 Guess we may just have to wait till that tech gets translated to pc.

[1UP]

Then enjoy having no solution.  I'd rather have an imperfect one now than wait indefinitely for an absolutely perfect one, because I know first hand that the Aimtrack works pretty nicely.  I don't know if pixel accuracy is that important here--I've yet to see a gun game where a target is one pixel.  It CAN be pretty damn close (consistently within a few pixels) if you set it up properly, which seems to be much easier with this gun than previous options.  Personally, that's good enough for me at this time, since I had NO light gun capability up to this point.  And it can be used with any monitor in my house, and any monitor I may upgrade to in the future.  That's a big plus.

Now if Andy were to come up with improvements to the Aimtrak, I'd welcome them.  The fact that he chose to provide an upgradable firmware shows that he's taking the customer into consideration.  I think there is room for improvement, but it would just be icing on an already tasty cake (2-player T2 has been VERY tasty so far  ).  No one's forcing you to buy this product, so let's just leave it at that.

[AndyWarne]

They work on a real simple principle....  if they can't see all the ir leds but detect a "L" shape of leds then they know that the gun is in the bottom left corner ect.....  Since your firmware is upgradeable you should really experiment with a full array and see if you can improve the accuracy even more.  I would have no problem paying more for 4 strips instead of 1 if it meant I could stand closer and have greater accuracy.

Do you know for sure that they work in this way? I would have expected an arrangement with many LEDs around the screen to turn on and off each LED in turn so that the gun knows which one its pointing at. This is an option but would mean having a control board mounted in the cabinet with drivers for the LEDs, and the gun connecting to this board rather than plugging direct to USB.

If all the LEDs were turned on all the time, the optical signal processing in the gun would not be able to deal with the large variation in numbers of LEDs being visible. A practical maximum is 4 light points. In theory the gun would be able to see all the LEDs if pointed in the center of the screen.

So given that the max is 4 LEDs, there is no way the gun could know which one(s) its looking at all of the time unless they were being controlled.

For an illustration of how much more complex the Sega light gun system is, look at ONE LED board here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-LED-Gun-Sense-Board-PCB-SEGA-Games-HOD-2-Lost-World_W0QQitemZ220548562001QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20100130?IMSfp=TL100130133004r17645
These have a control bus which runs around each LED.
Maybe this is an option for a future "pro" version but expect $$$. In fact it would likely not be economically viable unless I had a deal with a large arcade manufacturer to produce it, which could happen.

Its a strange experience reading these posts, becuase I spent 9 months of my life working through this and all of the suggestions made here I played with and dismissed ages ago, along with many others.  Perhaps I should have taken some pictures of my screen which was draped with LEDs in all kinds of locations at various points.

What I ended up with was the best combination of ease of use, accuracy and cost. I am in no doubt about that at all.

[Hoopz]

Andy,

Most of us appreciate your hard work in putting this together for us.  Don't let one bad apple convince you otherwise.  Especially a know-it-all who hasn't tried your product.

[Bender]

Andy,

Most of us appreciate your hard work in putting this together for us.  Don't let one bad apple convince you otherwise.  Especially a know-it-all who hasn't tried your product.

+1

keep up the great work Andy!