So...wouldja buy a GM?

[LLUncoolJ]

I would have a hard time right now. I've always been a whore as far as car brand loyalty. I buy the best car that suits my needs/wants for the price. But it just doesn't sit with me that GM will have a competitive advantage over Ford...basically they will be rewarded for failure. It's not even an Obama thing for me. It's more of a right vs wrong issue. Which is strange, because I am pretty much devoid of morality.

BTW, not to exclude, but this is pretty much a question for Americans (North?). I'm sure the rest of the world probably wouldn't consider either as an option.

[ChadTower]

Didn't want one before, don't want one now, just based on the cars themselves.  The rest is irrelevant if you just don't want anything they make.

[LLUncoolJ]

Didn't want one before, don't want one now, just based on the cars themselves.  The rest is irrelevant if you just don't want anything they make.

Always took you for a Camaro man.

[Flake]

Always took you for a Camaro man.

 

Seriously though the new camaros look pretty cool

[ChadTower]

Always took you for a Camaro man.

I'm holding out for an El Camino.

[Dartful Dodger]

I’m very loyal to brands.  I’ve owned 3 Chevy Cavaliers a Chevette and a Camero, they were all indestructible.  I became a Dodge guy when a 67 Dodge Dart fell into my lap.

I've had nothing but issues with all the Mopars I've owned since, but I’ve remained loyal to Dodge for 7 years.

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail, but I'm not that upset that it's getting a boost from the government.   I've said this in another thread, GM cars are built for Americans to drive in America.  Unlike Ford it wasn't selling to other nations.  The problem as I see it, was Americans decided to sacrifice speed and dependability for cost and conservation.

I'm going to my Credit Union Monday to get a loan to buy my Buddy's SAABaru 9-2X.  It's used so GM won't be getting more money from the purchase, but I'll officially be a GM guy again.

...that is until the Sweeds buy back SAAB.  

[Ginsu Victim]

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail

I don't like the bailouts at all, and failing is just a part of capitalism. If we don't fail, how do we learn from our mistakes?

[CCM]

I bought a used 2007 Chevy Trailblazer SS from a dealer back in December.  I got a sick deal on it.  I traded in my 2002 Chevy Blazer for it.  

I guess I am a GM guy, I've owned 7 cars in my life and 5 of those have been GM's, 2 Buicks, and 3 Chevys.  I never had any trouble with any of them, so that's where I got my loyalty.  

My other 2 vehicles were a Ford and a Dodge, and I had major issues with both.

[Zero_Hour]

...that is until the Sweeds buy back SAAB.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/business/global/17saab.html

And there it is.

[LLUncoolJ]

I'm not saying my animosity won't subside over time. But wife is going to need a new ride in the next year or so. If I don't go Ford, I'll probably go with something foreign. We had 3 straight MOPARs and had mixed results. But the biggest  kick to the nuts when it came time for the trade in.

[ChadTower]

Mmm Ford... parts made in China, car assembled in Mexico... good American car.

If you want an American car buy a Hyundai.

[Cakemeister]

I'd probably get a new Aveo if they cost $6k.

[daywane]

GM and Dodge I would buy used. ( great deals going on now)
You can get a great ride for $4k
New I would look at Ford or Toyota
I say this because their still hanging tough

[Dartful Dodger]

I don't like that GM needed a bail out and I'd be ok if it was allowed to fail the way we let AMC fail

I don't like the bailouts at all, and failing is just a part of capitalism. If we don't fail, how do we learn from our mistakes?

That's true, but most of the foreign companies have always been subsidized by their governments.  So an American company is at a disadvantage.  The government wasn't helping them before this, and Americans in general have no loyalty to American companies.

I remember reading a story a few years ago about employees at an American car company being upset because they were told they could no longer park their foreign cars in the employee parking lot.

The news coverage was siding with the employees.  I thought it was totally ridiculous.  These people can't even be loyal to the company they work for and the company is the bad guy.

[ChadTower]

I remember reading a story a few years ago about employees at an American car company being upset because they were told they could no longer park their foreign cars in the employee parking lot.

The news coverage was siding with the employees.  I thought it was totally ridiculous.  These people can't even be loyal to the company they work for and the company is the bad guy.

Isn't freedom a ---smurfette--- that way?

[Dartful Dodger]

Isn't freedom a ---smurf--- that way?

Exactly!

They have the freedom to buy any car they want and the company has the freedom to restrict any car it wants.

[ChadTower]

They have the freedom to buy any car they want and the company has the freedom to restrict any car it wants.

The company probably doesn't because it's a union shop.  Want to restrict the parking lot it has to be in the union contract, right?

[DaOld Man]

Back in fall of '87 I bought a brand new 88 Firebird, thinking one of the selling points that it was American made.
Imagine my disgust when I found the engine was made in Canada (not disgust over being made in Canada, just NOT being made in USA).
So I decided then that "made in America" dont necessarily mean that.

My 94 Dodge Dakota died on me (I bought it used), so I decided to buy at least one more new vehicle.

After much searching and researching, I decided on a Toyota Tacoma.
I like it. I like it a lot.

[ChadTower]

That is pretty much exactly what I want for my next vehicle but am too cheap to buy.

[massive88]

I love it when people blame the consumers.  In a free economy, you buy the product that best suits your needs.  If American auto companies want to get pissed off that their products aren't being bought by their employees, I dunno, make a better product to fulfill their needs?

Im pretty sure no one buys a Honda or Toyota simply because its non-American the way that people want Americans to buy American cars simply because they are American.

[Ginsu Victim]

I bought a Honda because it was the best choice for my price range, and I know it will last longer than my last two American cars (Chevrolet and Dodge).

[Dartful Dodger]

I love it when people blame the consumers.  In a free economy, you buy the product that best suits your needs.  If American auto companies want to get pissed off that their products aren't being bought by their employees, I dunno, make a better product to fulfill their needs?

If I'm remembering the story correctly most of the people claimed to have bought their cars before they were employees.  One woman said she was saving up to buy a new car from her company, but was driving the same car she had in college.  But one of the managers who had a personal parking space near the main entrance had a luxury BMW or something like.  It was the factory workers that complained about the BMW.  They just wanted to ban foreign cars in personal spots, they didn't think it would be the whole lot.  Just like they don't think that not buying a car from the company was going to contribute to their plant being shut down in 2009.

Im pretty sure no one buys a Honda or Toyota simply because its non-American the way that people want Americans to buy American cars simply because they are American.

People pay more for French wine that tastes the same as California’s.

I know there are Americans who hate everything American.  I dislike unions, I buy American cars because of what they look like, represent.  Even if it was made in Mexico by Chinese parts.  It's still an American car.

[LLUncoolJ]

We've seen this whole argument on other threads. It wasn't really intended to be an America vs the world thing. More of a 'does it bother you that all of GM's debt is washed clean while Ford took on a mountain of it in order to survive? If so, enough to not buy a GM?'

I'm not sure why this bugs me so much. Before the bailout, I only hated Pontiacs, not GM as a whole. I owned a Chevy Tahoe for my last car. And I think that new Camaro is bad-ass (pains me to say because we'll see 80 million of them on the road in a year and I'll be ripping on them).

[ChadTower]

People pay more for French wine that tastes the same as California’s.

I owned an Escort.  Now I own a Civic.  The difference in quality is exponential.  The two cars do not taste the same.

[massive88]

Just like they don't think that not buying a car from the company was going to contribute to their plant being shut down in 2009.

Blaming the consumer again.

Not making a product that could stand up to the market is what caused their plant to be shut down.  The car needs to stand on its own merits.  Being a Patriotic buy would tip the scales of two equal cars (financing, retention value, warranty, reliability etc...) in the American companies favor, as I would think its a safe guess that all things being equal, Americans would prefer to buy American products. But the companies cant rely solely on that to make their product superior, if you make a inferior, or even perceived inferior product, you wont survive the free market.

Chad's account is spot on with my personal experience.  If I am buying in that price range, and I test drive an Cavalier and a Civic in the early 2000s, they weren't even close, but its my fault that I go with the better product?  What should it matter who my employer is?

[ChadTower]

They're ~$16k here a year or two old. 

Really... and that's in the pickup resale capital of the US.  Wonder what they're selling for here now if they're only 16k in Texas.

[pinballwizard79]

Toyota FJ Cruiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[danny_galaga]

People pay more for French wine

connoisseurs pay more for French wine because it tastes better than Californian wine 

[daywane]

People pay more for French wine

connoisseurs pay more for French wine because it tastes better than Californian wine 

that's why I drink beer.
cost way less and has same effect

[ChadTower]

Those were $24k flat off the lot in this town a year ago.

Of course, I spent the afternoon looking around for those $16k 1-2 year old Tacomas and they don't really exist here unless you want the 4cyl 2wd regular cab with someone's ex-gf's name carved in the doors.

[hypernova]

I've got no issues with Chevy.  My '98 Cavalier recently crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong.  Haven't had to do anything major yet.  One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000, and something else in the hundreds.  The rest is just normal wear and tear.  Tires, oil, filters, etc.

My wife's always had troubles with Dodge.  Dodge blows.

[Kevin Mullins]

crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 
And I have NEVER bought a "new" car.

One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000

  I'd have been rolling some windows down.

As for the original post......would I buy a GM? .... no.
Any particular reason.... no.

Do I believe in any of the "bailout" BS.... no.
If a huge companies like those are failing, then they deserve to.

[RayB]

I have nothing constructive to add other than we were thinking of checking out the Kia Soul two weekends ago, decided not to, then the next weeked (last weekend) we drive to the dealership and the entire dealership was GONE.

[daywane]

crossed over the 100k miles threshold, and it's still going strong

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 
And I have NEVER bought a "new" car.

One thing regarding the air conditioner, which wasn't more than $1000

  I'd have been rolling some windows down.

As for the original post......would I buy a GM? .... no.
Any particular reason.... no.

Do I believe in any of the "bailout" BS.... no.
If a huge companies like those are failing, then they deserve to.

you are like me.
98 Chrysler concord
82 Toyota pick up
87 Mazda rx7
89 s10 blazer
88 ( i think) ford E150
Oh I all ways forget my 1980 Dodge Pace Arrow RV
It sit at the farm. I only use it for my hunting lodge now.

[ChadTower]

I count four cars out in the yard going strong over 200K..... all different manufacturers. 

What state are you in?  This doesn't happen in New England.  Some will reach 200k but not many at all and it takes a lot of dedication on the part of the owner to get it there.  Even the cars known to run forever often can't make it that far because they rust out around the drivetrain before the engine is done.

[daywane]

I am in KY. Rust is a problem here but not to bad
Salt used in winter is the big rust killer hear.
drive in car wash in winter as soon as it gets warm enough helps.
RV came from AZ. Paint fades off cars there. no real rust.

[WunderCade]

What state are you in?  This doesn't happen in New England.  Some will reach 200k but not many at all and it takes a lot of dedication on the part of the owner to get it there.  Even the cars known to run forever often can't make it that far because they rust out around the drivetrain before the engine is done.

In California, my 1995 Mazda Protege is still a champ at 223,000 miles commuting 50 miles a day. The interior is falling apart, the cheap plastics are crumbling....but it's still going strong and the A/C is still cranking out cold air.

[RayB]

Salt used in winter is the big rust killer hear.

Good to know. I always thought the opposite.

[Level42]

I don't understand why the discusion here focusses totally on the product  (the cars) and not on the company, which has been so mis-managed over the last 2 decades. If you don't agree with your government saving GM (I personally feel they should have let it go bust, because that's the American way and it's what will be the best thing to happen to it in the end) I wouldn't buy a car from them.

I've driven a lot of GM products, all Opel cars and I hated each and every one of them, although the very last one (which had a Fiat designed engine) was already getting better.

Why I drove them ? Because that's what the companies I worked for chose as a company car.
Since then I've driven a Renault (much to my own surprise, I choose that one myself and loved it) and now I'm driving my second Skoda Oktavia, which is basically a Volkswagen Golf stationwagen. It's a great car to drive, although it has it's little pro's and con's like any other car.

I feel that the American car builders fail(ed) to match what the market asks for. Lower fuel consumption while maintaining or improving engine power, better quality etc. Even Opel screwed up big with their latest models. The new Insignia is a very nice car though but it maybe too late. I think they would do better without the GM connection.

My wife drives a small Ford Fiesta. We bought it new. It has an old-fashioned 8-valve engine. It's been running without any problem since we bought it in 2000 and I intend to keep the car for as long as it will be running without problems, goal is too reach the year 2015 with it....the down-side is that it's not very fuel-efficient compared to the more modern engined-cars.

If I would have to buy a car, I'd go for a used Japanese car. Most reliable cars ever built. My basic demands for a car is that they are reliable and have low maintenance costs.

[LLUncoolJ]

Toyota FJ Cruiser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Word to that. I plan on buying a 20 year old FJ when I retire and use it as my beach cruiser. It should be all beat up and cheap by then. I love the look, but no way I could do it now, not with 2 little ones to haul around, gotta have a decent sized back seat.