what do you nerds do for living? - discuss career possibilities

[danny_galaga]

Mostly, I'm a computer geek.  I model turbofan engines based on their thermo qualities, and then simulate their operation across the flight envelope, and look for potential problems.

Please oh please don't tell me you work on "space shuttle landing simulators".  I have met 3 people from three different states that all claim they work on that.

no turbofans on a shuttle 

[danny_galaga]

It's ok, neither do I, really...  I just make it up as I go along...   

Mostly, I'm a computer geek.  I model turbofan engines based on their thermo qualities, and then simulate their operation across the flight envelope, and look for potential problems.

now i have a better picture. So for instance, one of the things you will be determining is the airflow through the engine at various attitudes from say -2 degrees all the way up to stall, or when yawing etc.

[RayB]

My Screename says it all, Ford! I work at the best non-Tax dollar supported Auto company in the United States! I make planetary gear sets (1000 per 8 hour shift, 5 gears per set, so I mill 5000 gears, deburr, wash, gear check for size, tooth height-width ratio), install the gears into the carriers, press fit a pinion to keep the gears in place and allow the gears to spin. Run the competed sets through a quality control test stand (test the gear spin, make sure the pins were pressed in at the correct depth) , then pack into shipping dunnage to be sent to Livonia, Michigan. Sounds like alot because it is a lot. Running 11 machines in my machine center. 

Yes, I am also a PROUD member of the UAW and no, we are not lazy! If we were, then our plant would have closed 2 years ago. I resent the fact that people believe that a Union worker in the U.S. is lazy. Most European and Asian manufacturing workers are Union and they dont get the flack that U.S. & Canadian workers do for belonging to a Union. 

I also love this MAME and jukebox homebrew hobby. It keeps me entertained and me spending money on positive things and not on stupid stuff!

When buying an Auto in the U.S.A. or Canada, buy a better than toyota-honda quality Ford!

 

Fordman

Proud worker you are. Not sure why you need to shill for them though. We just got news we need to ditch our 2001 Focus cuz there's too much wrong with it and it hasn't even reached 100,000 miles yet! Besides mechanical, we also have a problem with paint flaking off it in big chunks. Why doesn't Ford put a good primer coat layer under the top coat?! My 1991 Honda is still running great, and where stones have chipped the paint, I can see a layer of white primer instead of bare-gonna-rust metal like the Focus. Ford cuts corners to keep cost down and then the result is we get what we pay for. Meanwhile you probably get paid crazy money and expect to be set for life when you retire. 

Our local Toyota factory (Ontario, Canada) is not unionized, and they have no shortage of people wanting to work there (even prior to the current economic/work situation this was the case). Great reputation. $25/hr minimum starting wage.

[HaRuMaN]

It's ok, neither do I, really...  I just make it up as I go along...   

Mostly, I'm a computer geek.  I model turbofan engines based on their thermo qualities, and then simulate their operation across the flight envelope, and look for potential problems.

now i have a better picture. So for instance, one of the things you will be determining is the airflow through the engine at various attitudes from say -2 degrees all the way up to stall, or when yawing etc.

Yes.  Similarly, determining the distortion created by angled crosswinds, etc. 

[CheffoJeffo]

When buying an Auto in the U.S.A. or Canada, buy a better than toyota-honda quality Ford!

Where you find such a creature ? 

* CheffoJeffo reminds himself why he drives the non-American-built Ford and trusts the wife and kids' comfort and safety to the American-buildtToyota

[Fordman]

When buying an Auto in the U.S.A. or Canada, buy a better than toyota-honda quality Ford!

Where you find such a creature ? 

* CheffoJeffo reminds himself why he drives the non-American-built Ford and trusts the wife and kids' comfort and safety to the American-buildtToyota

Hey, it's just not me saying the Ford Product is better than Toy-motor and honda

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-category/midsize-car

The Ford Fusion way outscored honda Accord and tied the Camry.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-category/midsize-multi-activity-vehicle

Looks like Ford tied in this category too! 

Consumer reports wont let me see their report unless I subscribe 

And for safety http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.94b0130be143aeb342252f0835a67789/?vgnextoid=68adf2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD

or http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx Why I dont see the mighty Camry or minivan anywhere on the list! (condesending tone)  Arnt they supposed to be so much safer? Guess not!

More Ford, Lincoln & Mercury products than any other manufacturer!

I see the quality every day. My fellow co-wokers 'get-it' now that their jobs may be gone. Yes, they should have 'gotten-it' years ago, but the outlook wasnt so bleek then. The Blue Oval is making American History. You can be part of the same history story by buying a New Ford! Dont buy from an Asian company when your dollars are needed here at home! When 1 Detroit auto worker losses a job, 12 more in the supply chain loose their jobs too! I put my money where my mouth is! 

*** Not to sound like a hippocrit, but if I lived in Europe, I'd shill for Fiat, Vuxhall or Opel too! Support the home team so they can support YOU! ***

[pinballwizard79]

I sell money that doesnt exist to people who never pay it back.



Edit: Fordman be aware stereotypes exist for a reason. Old people cant ---smurfing--- drive is a true stereotype for a reason. The stereotypes of inbreeding being prominent in Arkansas but not New York exist for a reason as well. I think stopping there proves my point enough, I am sure the rest of you can think of more.

Perhaps you guys have your ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- together now, perhaps that means the next generation may buy from you I suppose but not this guy.

It sucks to see China buy our debt & other countries buy our breweries & factories but that's how it goes. Globalization will have casualties but in the end it will all work out for the better. Then we will colonize other planets & talk about not using their nanocarbon until we have a galactic economy LOL.

[danny_galaga]

It's ok, neither do I, really...  I just make it up as I go along...   

Mostly, I'm a computer geek.  I model turbofan engines based on their thermo qualities, and then simulate their operation across the flight envelope, and look for potential problems.

now i have a better picture. So for instance, one of the things you will be determining is the airflow through the engine at various attitudes from say -2 degrees all the way up to stall, or when yawing etc.

Yes.  Similarly, determining the distortion created by angled crosswinds, etc. 

Ah yes, all these things create 'shadow' for the airflow, thus causing variations in cooling, and efficiency (i imagine one engine getting slightly less oxygen than the other in a yaw or crosswind situation) Cool. Finally, a fancy job description i can actually figure out!

[HaRuMaN]

^^ You've got it.

[ChadTower]

How long has the Fusion been on the market now?  I'll start to believe it's as good as the Accord or the Civic when you see 12 year old Fusions with 240,000 miles on them still on the road - driven by people who still want them.

You know how I know this ratings site is full of crap?  They rated the PT Cruiser best mechanical quality in its class.  I test drove one of those recently and it was a piece of cheaply built crap.  Even my wife, who knows jack about cars, was surprised by how lousy that thing was.

[HaRuMaN]

The Fusion isn't even made in America. 

The Fusion is manufactured at Ford's Hermosillo Stamping & Assembly plant in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico...

[ChadTower]

So doesn't that also mean the Fusion is made by people NOT in this guy's union?  In fact wouldn't it mean that people in his union lost jobs so that cheaper Mexicans can build these cars instead of people in his union?  Wouldn't he have friends at home unemployed because of the Fusion?

So if we buy a Fusion aren't we jabbing a stick in his eye?

[Flake]

Oh for god's sake people, all this propaganda about "saving american jobs" is really horsecrap.  When will people begin to understand our economy - and every other country for that matter - is no longer "national" its global.  Ford manufactures cars in Mexico but Toyota manufactures cars in the US.  Yea, lets stop buying Toyota's because they are a "foreign" company.  Tell that to the employees of Toyota's 13 US manufacturing locations.  Protectionism isnt going to help or solve anything.  I'm not a Toyota apologist by any stretch but the level of ignorance that appears prevelant in labor unions.....and quite frankly the general public is baffling.  People would rather believe what Joe politician or Bill union leader tells them than discover the truth for themselves.

You cant alter the movement of global economics.  Basic economic theory holds that efficiency......eventually......wins over any other economic force.  Might as well embrace it.  If American workers want a piece of the pie develop some damn efficiency so your company can be competitive in the global environment.  Otherwise, go wait in line at the unemployment office........

BTW - I drive a 2006 F-150 I purchased brand new and my wife drives a 2006 Ford Explorer purchased brand new.

[Fordman]

Yes, the Fusion, Milan and MKZ are made in mexico. If it wasnt for NAFTA, they would be made right here in the U.S.A.

Actually, the Chicago Assembly plant may be adding a second assembly line for the Fusion. Ford is having trouble getting Fusion's out of mexico because of the governments unwillingness to fight organized crime and political corruptness there.

As for protectionism, I'm not preaching it. But if we dont make anything, who's going to buy anything? Show me a service job other than city trash collector that pays anything close to a livable wage. Why do we as Americans' or Europeans have to lower our standards of life to those in third world countries because they have backwards or corrupt governments?

BTW, who's going to build the military might if needed? At Ford, all of our machines, by law, have to be engineered to build military equipment at the press of a button. Who do you think built the war machine in WWI & WWII? Believe me, the toyota's and honda's of the world arnt going to build the tanks or planes if needed. And dont give me the "war is different now, we dont need tanks and planes" crap that many spew! The machines are tested every 90 days to make military builds and they have to work at a touch of a button he first time! The auto companies built the WWI & WWII war machine and they will build the next one if needed. And NO, the military Humvee and GM's Hummer are not the same! GM licensed the Hummer from AM General and use the Humvee look and feel for their design! A chinese company will not build Humvee's as some fear! 2 different animals.

Thats it for my ranting!

Oh, Thank You Flake for your F-150 and Explorer purchase! 

Fordman

[ChadTower]

I have to point out here that it's thinking in 1940 terms rather than 2009 terms that got the US auto companies in this situation in the first place.

[Fordman]

Do a little labor research first! I majored in History in general but the labor part was my favorite!

It worked in the 1940's and it will work today! In the 1940's workers had to 'stand up' by 'sitting down' for their rights on the job! The autoworkers told the companies that they wanted a job tomorrow! Not beg daily to able to work and then come back the next day just to beg again. That's where the term 'straw pool' and 'straw boss' came from. Your just a number at your workplace with no voice if you are hired as an 'Employee-At-Will'. The company can fire you without recousre for NO reason! Any lawyer will tell you that!

Companies today use the 'Divide & Conquer' metallity to divide the workforce. They have done a great job of this since 1981. They hire large law firms to come into your workplace and intentionally divide you! They want you to work for peanuts and make them billions, just to forget about you after you put your time in (just ask those at IBM)!
They want you to make one wage w/ benefits and the guy next to you to make another wage without benefits! They want you to gravel at their feet and for you to worhip them because they gave you a job.

Take a course in Labor history and I bet you change your tune!

United We Stand - Divided We Beg!

As far as thinking in 1940's terms, the Detroit 3 missed a boat in the 1990's with cars. They forgot about them. Lack of style and innovation with what they did have. The Ford Taurus was a great car, but forgotten then last 10 years. The Montego/Mystique were both mistakes. The Big 3 wanted it all, thats why they bought up all the European brands. Now they're trying to fire sale them. Shouldve re-invested their 1990's profits in ther products, not expand what they had!

 

Fordman

[Flake]

I think I came off a bit preachy in my earlier post so I apologize for that.  Fordman I love my truck and am equally satisfied with my wife's Explorer.  2 of my previous 3 vehicles were GM products but Fords truck design during 2006 was far and away more attractive (IMO) than GM.

You ask what is the US going to produce?  Well just because our auto industry isnt what it once was doesnt mean the US is out of the manufacturing business.  Small businesses employ over 50% of the US workforce and those numbers continue to rise.  The US is plenty attractive for businesses.  We have plenty of access to capital (and I'm not just talking about banks but also private equity groups), few barriers into industries, tax incentives, readily available consumers, etc.  There are many other industries outside of general manufacturing that prosper here in the states.

IMO the auto industry was crippled long ago by the UAW.  Unions are a thing of the past and will continue to lose their power even more so in the years ahead.  They served their purpose but times have changed and they are really nothing more than drag on the economy.  Yea individually some families would be better off but the economy as a whole suffers so some.....here come the stereotypes......unmotivated, often lazy worker can mail it in from 9-5 everyday, earn more than he or she is worth then retire fat and happy when he or she reaches 65 on a bloated pension.  I read an economic brief just yesterday estimated the UAW labor costs have added anywhere from $2,000-$4,000 additional cost per car.  Meaning Ford, GM and Chrysler are at a competitive price disadvantage right from the start.  

Fordman, I dont doubt you do good work and I know many a union worker who are very skilled at their craft.  But for every one of those I know, there are two who fit quite nicely into the typical union stereotype.

[pinballwizard79]

I HATE when self righteous union people try to guilt everyone for not buying their crap.

Its my money, spent how I want, on what I want, on what I researched, on what offers the best ROI. People stopped buying certain products for a reason, learn the reason & emulate or better yet innovate it rather than cry. If you want me to buy what you want then give me your money, snaps!

Fordman better look at your dish towels, sandals, shoes, shirt, jeans, watch, alarm clock, tooth brush, wallet, belt, silverware, plates, tupperware, toaster, microwave, lunchbox, welcome mat, garage door remote, tv, dvd player, cable box, furniture, light fixtures, telescope, computer, printer, scanner, cookie jar, drink coasters, shelves, martini glasses, arcade PCB board, buttons, joystick, 401k & damn mutual fund.

Because none of that ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- was made in America.

How dare you not buy a watch that will rust & break made buy a guy named Hank in Texas who adopted a beagle & belongs to a union & likes to eat hotdogs while driving a ford listening to willie nelson & takes off work to strike then deer hunt & yell at yuppies in toyotas while voting for American idol. Sheesh, damn commie!

One more thing: The unions have not been necessary since we established labor laws.

FYI: I work for a possibly failing bank so I feel your pain but am I blaming anyone?

Nope, I am taking it like a man.

[boykster]

You know how I know this ratings site is full of crap?  They rated the PT Cruiser best mechanical quality in its class.  I test drove one of those recently and it was a piece of cheaply built crap.  Even my wife, who knows jack about cars, was surprised by how lousy that thing was.

No kidding - I had one as a rental while my car was in the body shop, and MAN what a junky car that was.  It was a 2009 with only 4k miles on it, and damn that thing rattled like a mofo, the clock didn't work, and it was a gutless wonder on the freeway.

[danny_galaga]

IMO the auto industry was crippled long ago by the UAW.  Unions are a thing of the past and will continue to lose their power even more so in the years ahead.  They served their purpose but times have changed and they are really nothing more than drag on the economy.  Yea individually some families would be better off but the economy as a whole suffers so some.....here come the stereotypes......unmotivated, often lazy worker can mail it in from 9-5 everyday, earn more than he or she is worth then retire fat and happy when he or she reaches 65 on a bloated pension.  I read an economic brief just yesterday estimated the UAW labor costs have added anywhere from $2,000-$4,000 additional cost per car.  Meaning Ford, GM and Chrysler are at a competitive price disadvantage right from the start.  

Fordman, I dont doubt you do good work and I know many a union worker who are very skilled at their craft.  But for every one of those I know, there are two who fit quite nicely into the typical union stereotype.

You need to read a book called 'Going postal' by Mark Ames. In it, he explores the root causes of workplace rage in America. One of the things he mentions is the decline of unions. Another is the fact that big companies feed us this crap about profitability. Yet most of the cuts they make (sackings, erosion of privileges like paid holidays and sick leave. How much paid leave do you get? I get 4 weeks a year, and i've only worked at the same place for 2 years) go straight to the CEO's pockets. The pigs at the trough couldn't be happier that the average shmoe thinks he's better off nowadays. In the 70's the average CEO earnt 30 times the average salary. Now it's something like 500 times the average salary! Youre actually worse off now. I think someone here corrected someone else when they said 50 hours a week is a normal work load. When it should actually be 35-40 hours. They reduce the workforce so those left over can work harder for no extra pay. Where does that difference go i wonder?

Many people think of cars or heavy industry when they think unions. But unions exist to protect the rights of many types of worker, including administrative, clerical etc. I myself don't always join unions. I am currently in the Postal Union, and i have been in a Retail workers union.

In short, I agree with Fordman in general about unions. The pigs at the trough would have you believe unions are irrelevant now, but as soon as unions are gone, companies will have absolutely no compulsion to look after your rights. That $2000-$4000 per car? You think they'll sell the car $2000-$4000 cheaper? Hip pocket, my friend. But go ahead, work 20 hours overtime a week without any penalty rates. CEO's luxury yachts don't come from thin air. Take it like a man. In Australia, we don't have to

[pinballwizard79]

PBJ once again you...........ah never mind 

I am sure Australia is a magic land where your boss lets you make out with his wife, then gives you a raise & sends you home early to cook up kangaroo meat on the barbie while drinking Fosters & staring at a big orange rock with a Subaru in front of it.

But truth be told the only people who care about unions are the people in the union........................then there are the rest of us. If you were a Scientologist union member then you'd belong to two groups that no one else other than its own members cared about.

Tomorrow I swear to god I will eat Chinese food, when I get home I will drink Spaaten & then watch telemundo on my Japanese made TV.

OMG its a Toyota commercial on Telemundo





Alright I am totally starting to turn into a troll, I cant be "that guy" more than 2 posts in a row so I have to be good for a while.

[danny_galaga]

PBJ once again you...........ah never mind 

I am sure Australia is a magic land where your boss lets you make out with his wife, then gives you a raise & sends you home early to cook up kangaroo meat on the barbie while drinking Fosters & staring at a big orange rock with a Subaru in front of it.

Well, I did finish work at 1:30 pm today. Fosters is the crap we export to you people. The bosses wife is a bit too 'plain' for me...

[Fordman]

[/quote]

Our local Toyota factory (Ontario, Canada) is not unionized, and they have no shortage of people wanting to work there (even prior to the current economic/work situation this was the case). Great reputation. $25/hr minimum starting wage.

[/quote]

The only reason the toyota workers get paid the $25.00hr is because the Ford, Chrysler & GM plants that are represented by the CAW. Toyoyta and honda in the U.S. also pay /w benefits similar to the Big 3 just to keep the UAW out. It's well documented that when ever the UAW represented plants get gains or have to take cuts, the foriegn plants do too!

Same story here in the U.S.A., when the 'Now Hiring' sign goes up, there are 25,000 people in line for the 25-30 jobs available. with 24,000 of them cursing the UAW the day before because they make too much money, but when they get a chance at the pie, they all the sudden change their tune!

 

Fordman

[CheffoJeffo]

The only reason the toyota workers get paid the $25.00hr is because the Ford, Chrysler & GM plants that are represented by the CAW.

That's not quite accurate, but it definitely plays a part in terms of what the market will bear.

For my part, I've never been a big fan of unions as the companies got bigger and the unions started to wield undue amounts of power in what I see should be a free market.

As for my purchases, I have owned 3 Ford vehicles, none of which was made in the USA, 3 Honda vehicles, 2 of which were made in the USA, 2 GM vehicles, both made in the USA, a BMW and a Toyota, which was made in the USA.

In terms of overall quality, the Toyota wins handsdown with the Hondas coming in a close second. My Jimmy was a vehicle that I could keep running forever on my own, except that I couldn't change the damned spark plugs without a hoist and it wouldn't seat the 3 kids, 2 dogs and all of our gear comfortably (otherwise I would still have it). For the most part, the Fords have been a disaster, but they've been Windstars (and, as I say, not made in the USA), so that was not entirely unexpected.

I do find it interesting that my best friend is a firefighter and relies heavily on his union (was a union delegate not long ago) to negotiate well on his behalf ... and he *hates* the UAW. His last vehicle, purchased new 5 months ago, was a Toyota and built in Japan.

As for flake's assessment that the US is attractive for business, it is attractive for *some* businesses ... while access to capital is important, the US has suffered in that regard (Hell, Toyota requested a "bailout" from the Japanese government so that they could finance more cars because the US capital markets dried up). Access to consumers is, today, mostly independent of the geography of manufacturing. Add to that an expensive, aging, workforce and high health-care costs and it isn't as attractive as people might think for companies with large workforces.

Shouldve re-invested their 1990's profits in ther products, not expand what they had!

That, and started to think about adequately financing their benefits programs, the pay-as-you-go costs of which comprise, what, 30-40% of the human labour cost in each new vehicle ?

In any event  to you for being proud of what you do and what you make.

[ChadTower]

The only reason the toyota workers get paid the $25.00hr is because the Ford, Chrysler & GM plants that are represented by the CAW.

That's not quite accurate, but it definitely plays a part in terms of what the market will bear.

Does it really?  The only way that would be a real factor is if the Toyota workers could jump to Ford.  If there are a thousand applicants for every job at Ford that is not a factor at all.  If that figure is anything close to accurate then Ford is a closed system and has no effect on market rates among at-will employees.

[CheffoJeffo]

The only reason the toyota workers get paid the $25.00hr is because the Ford, Chrysler & GM plants that are represented by the CAW.

That's not quite accurate, but it definitely plays a part in terms of what the market will bear.

Does it really?  The only way that would be a real factor is if the Toyota workers could jump to Ford.  If there are a thousand applicants for every job at Ford that is not a factor at all.  If that figure is anything close to accurate then Ford is a closed system and has no effect on market rates among at-will employees.

Prior to the latest unpleasantness, it did here.

I probably should have couched that statement in the past tense, but there was competition between manufacturers here (all within 150 kilometers of each other).

[Flake]

In short, I agree with Fordman in general about unions. The pigs at the trough would have you believe unions are irrelevant now, but as soon as unions are gone, companies will have absolutely no compulsion to look after your rights. That $2000-$4000 per car? You think they'll sell the car $2000-$4000 cheaper? Hip pocket, my friend. But go ahead, work 20 hours overtime a week without any penalty rates. CEO's luxury yachts don't come from thin air. Take it like a man. In Australia, we don't have to

Wow does that statement come straight from the union manual?  Union guys really soak their union leader propaganda stuff up.  

You want to discuss CEO's high salaries?  Why dont we discuss how much the head of the UAW makes?  I can guarantee you its no small sum.  I'm sure Ron Gettelfinger has a yacht parked in same harbor as William Clay Ford.  Has the union decreased your dues over the years to make sure their precious laborers take home enough pay?  Face it man, the union is nothing but another corporation that exists now for one purpose - to make money.  Their product is you.  But instead of marketing their product as beneficial and cost effective to their consumers (being Ford, GM, etc.) they use time tested methods of heavy handed enforcement and basically legal blackmail to force their product onto their consumer.

[RayB]

Just to clarify, the $25/hr at Toyota I mentioned is STARTING WAGE (I said that, but it was obviously unclear). So in other words, if you're a new hire and don't even necessarily have experience, you're making $50K a year starting salary, plus nice benefits after the probationary period (no union dues, and remember we have free health care here). So imagine what the long-term employees are making.  That's a good salary for this area and our cost of living. The only con is its shift-work, so you might be working days for a few weeks then switch to nights for few, etc.

(Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $9.50)

[Kevin Mullins]

(Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $9.50)

US or CAD ?

[LLUncoolJ]

I AM NOT A NERD!!! 

[HaRuMaN]

I AM NOT A NERD!!! 

Yes you are.  Take it like a man.

[LLUncoolJ]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=92998.0    (see post # 17 (reply #16))

Clearly I'm a dork, not a nerd.

Nerd implies smart, I just like video games and whatnot.

[HaRuMaN]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=92998.0    (see post # 17)

Clearly I'm a dork, not a nerd.

Clearly you're in denial.

[LLUncoolJ]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=92998.0

see post #20 (reply #19)

[HaRuMaN]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=92998.0

see post #20 (reply #19)

Quit editing your posts, you dorky nerd.

[LLUncoolJ]

I'm thinking about starting a new thread...and there's nothing you can do about it.

[HaRuMaN]

I'm thinking about starting a new thread...and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'll sick the cat on you.  He bites.

[Fordman]

Just to clarify, the $25/hr at Toyota I mentioned is STARTING WAGE (I said that, but it was obviously unclear). So in other words, if you're a new hire and don't even necessarily have experience, you're making $50K a year starting salary, plus nice benefits after the probationary period (no union dues, and remember we have free health care here). So imagine what the long-term employees are making.  That's a good salary for this area and our cost of living. The only con is its shift-work, so you might be working days for a few weeks then switch to nights for few, etc.

(Minimum wage in Ontario, Canada is $9.50)

I dont know Canadian Labor laws or history so I'm no qualified to answer about min wage in Canada, but do you really think toyota would pay $25.00hr if Ford, chrysler and GM didnt?

Toyota uses part time and temp labor here in the U.S.A.. Thats how they get around paying for benefits and legacy costs. When the UAW tried to organize a toyota plant in Georgetown, KY, the NLRB ruled that the workers that signed the cars for the election worked for the temp service and not toyota, so therefore the workers would have voted for the temp service to be Unionized. As with the NLRB ruling, toyota terminated the contract with the temp service. Toyota uses the temp services to maximize their profits and pay the temps nothing but 'maybe a chance' to get full time employement. 87% of all workers in toyota plants in the U.S. are temp workers with next to no benefits and NO pension or retirement plan. Temp services have done nothing but bring wages down. Everyone in the town of Georgetown, Ky has worked at Toyota and the majority have been fired. They bus in workers from Louisville and Eastern, KY daily because in Eastern, KY, all the coal mines have closed and $8.50hr plus a free ride to work is considered a 'Good Job'!

And No, I dont read from the Union manual. All I have to do is look out my back door and see the skeletons of what was once a thriving industrial park. One auto plant, 3 supplier plants, 1 small power plant, 1 water treament plant, 5 warehouses and lots of empty rail road tracks and parking lots. All have been vacant for 3 years now and arnt going to have tennants any time soon if we keep letting mexico and china take it all!

Fordman

[CheffoJeffo]

All have been vacant for 3 years now and arnt going to have tennants any time soon if we keep letting mexico and china take it all!

Don't forget Canuckistan !

[Fordman]

Canada isnt going to get the work either! You Canadians make too much money too! Just ask any company and they will tell you!

Fordman