need home security system advice

[hulkster]

k so ive currently got an alarm system in my house that's pretty cheap, monitored by a local company and it works fine.  its a hard wired alarm system that connects to the phone line to dial the company in case of a break in or problem. 

i recently had the backup battery in the alarm system start beeping at me prompting me to call my alarm company and ask some questions.  i asked them what phone number they had on file to contact me and they gave me my hard wired home phone number.  problem is....i got rid of AT&T phone service a long time ago and went strictly to cell phones for my wife and myself.  soo....that means even if there is a break in, that no one would be called.  they said they could put in a cell phone receiver thingy for $395 and then it would be an extra $12 a month for that service.  crap!

so im faced with a decision. 

1.  should i call up AT&T and get a phone line just for my alarm system? 
2.  should i get comcast to give me phone service and go that way since i already have the internet through them? 
3.  should i just quit paying for the alarm monitoring service since i live in a low crime area anyway?  i'll still have the alarm for noise and stuff....
4.  is it a good time to look at another alarm company thats widely known? (brinks, adt, etc)
5.  or is there another option im not thinking of?

help!

[HaRuMaN]

5a) big dog
5b) shotgun

 

[Samstag]

If you're going to pay someone to monitor the alarm, you need to change to another provider.  If your alarm stopped reporting in "a long time ago" and they didn't contact you about it, they're not worth keeping.

I use ADT but never used anyone else so I can't make comparisons.   When the alarm goes off they're very quick to contact us by home phone, then by cell phone.  If we don't respond to either of those the police are at the door pretty quickly to check things out.  So I'm getting what I pay for.

You didn't mention whether you get an insurance discount for the alarm.  You'll want to factor that into the cost before deciding on whether to hook up phone service.  As for which phone service, I'd go with the cheapest option.

[hulkster]

if you dont mind me asking....how much do you pay for your ADT service?  my current alarm service is dirt cheap at $120 a year.  but if i factor in the phone line, ehh...i guess phone service is like $20 a month? 

[Samstag]

I think ADT is somewhere around $32 per month.   It's on the wife's credit card so I haven't seen a bill in a while.

[ark_ader]

Big Dog that barks like mad but is cute and cuddly.

Baseball Bat.

Where I live you can leave the keys in the front door lock (done this many times) all night and nobody bothers.  And I live on a busy main road.   

If all else fails.  Move. 

[pinballwizard79]

Your alarm is useless based on the options you presented.

For $12 a month you can get the CELLULAR device added to your alarm which is less than a land line & exponentially more secure (there is an upfront equipment cost as you mentioned but suck it up). 

The only time you can get caught with your pants down is if a solar flare occurs the exact same time someone breaks into your house.......as opposed to when some redneck or gangbanger cuts your cable & telephone, storms in, rips the siren down & does what ever you are most afraid of.

Get several heat/smoke sensors too (make sure you get one by the furnace, water heater & ele box), that way you, your family & pets can survive. AND even if you are at the mall with the entire family & cat the Fire department will put it out before you even know about it & since you went cellular the telephone wire melting together & closing the circuit wont knock out your communication.

Yep

[pinballwizard79]

FYI: why are you paying for alarm service when the alarm cannot call out 

PM me if you want to know which wires to unscrew to stop the beeping

Also living in a low crime area just means you are safer but not invincible.

[hulkster]

FYI: why are you paying for alarm service when the alarm cannot call out 

PM me if you want to know which wires to unscrew to stop the beeping

Also living in a low crime area just means you are safer but not invincible.

well i didnt know the alarm wasn't calling out until the day i put up the original post.  yes it doesnt make sense to pay for something that isnt working   

but my original question was whether or not to "suck it up" and pay the $350 up front and the extra $12 a month for phone line.....OR.....to go with another alarm company.  that was my original question. 

[ChadTower]

The big dog is more effective than an alarm most of the time, anyway.  Your goal isn't to detect intrusion and get help.  Your goal is to stop people from attemping to get in to begin with.  The shotgun is the worst option because now not only do you have an intruder but you have a life or death confrontation about to happen.  If that person were deterred from breaking in at all neither the alarm system nor the shotgun would be necessary.

I'm not anti-gun by any means but the odds of using it on an intruder are pretty damn low once you've unlocked it, located the ammo, and loaded it. 

Oh, and as for your original question, it was answered... the alarm company didn't even tell you the system had been disabled.  They were just taking your money and not providing you a damn thing.  Why would you even consider continuing with them?

[hulkster]

Oh, and as for your original question, it was answered... the alarm company didn't even tell you the system had been disabled.  They were just taking your money and not providing you a damn thing.  Why would you even consider continuing with them?

good point 

k so who should i go with then?  adt?  brinks?  other?

[Level42]

Being an ex-ADT employee I'm biased so I won't advice you about which company. ADT did have good quality standards though and I think they were better than many competitors..

The dog is always a funny mention. What do you do on holidays ? Leave the animal alone for 14 days ?

Your current company should have installed an alarm that sends out a test-signal every 24 hrs. When it is missed once (by the alarm company computer) as message pops up at the operator and should notify you that they have lost contact with your system.

But if the only method of contacting you was that landline......usually they require at least 3 points of contact though and I figure they had your address....so they  should have been able to inform you. On the other side, it's also your responsibility as you could have known it wouldn't be working anymore once you gave up the landline.

GSM (or wireless) connections have a lot of advantages like pinballwizard79 says, but it is not as reliable as he writes. GSM services are not up 99.7% of the time by contract or anything like that. They do go down once in a while, although yes it's rare.

For the (professional) fire alarms that are directly connected to the fire brigades over here, more and more ADSL lines are in use. These have the advantage of being continuously "open" for communication (so the status of the system and the communication is checked continuously but of course, these can fail too, so they are backed up with a GSM  connection.

Anyway, that's all way too expensive for personal use.

Can't you simply buy a separate GSM dialer over there ? That's how I do it over here. You can program it to dial your cellphone (GSM) phone and it also dials out through a GSM (cell-phone) connection.

[Ed_McCarron]

I'm not anti-gun by any means but the odds of using it on an intruder are pretty damn low once you've unlocked it, located the ammo, and loaded it. 

Who needs to load it?  The sound of cycling the action will send most intruders running.  Thats a -very- distinct sound.

[ahofle]

Can you still arm it if you disconnect the monthly service?  Just my opinion, but if you already have the system installed with signage around your house, I would just disconnect the monthly service and arm it as a 'standalone' system.  As Chad said it's more of a deterrent than anything else.  If a burglar breaks in and hears the alarm going off, more than likely he isn't going to stick around.  And if you're home when it goes off it also serves as a shotgun loading notification system.

[ChadTower]

Who needs to load it?  The sound of cycling the action will send most intruders running.  Thats a -very- distinct sound.

Did nobody ever teach you to never point a weapon at someone you aren't prepared to use?  You're right, it is a very distinct sound, and if he is armed it could cause him to do the same.  His will be loaded.

[Dartful Dodger]

3.  should i just quit paying for the alarm monitoring service since i live in a low crime area anyway?  i'll still have the alarm for noise and stuff....

The noise is all you really need, if the alarm doesn't scare them away and you're overpowered or not even home, your neighbors will call the police for you, or on you to complain about the noise.  Either way it'll be more effective than an alarm company didn't do anything when the backup battery in the alarm system start beeping.


Put half the money you were spending on them into your home insurance to cover all the valuables you'll be able to buy with the other half of that money.


You can get a fire proof safe bolted to a wall for all your irreplaceable valuables. This way they’ll be protected from a break in and/or a fire.

[Ed_McCarron]

You're right, it is a very distinct sound, and if he is armed it could cause him to do the same.  His will be loaded.

Survey says most home burglaries are by unarmed cretins who would rather not get into a confrontation.  If you don't really want to shoot at someone, it might be an acceptable risk to be able to scare them off.

Me?  I'd shoot to kill, then fire a warning shot into the ceiling.  Tough to tell which one came first.

(No, I don't even own a gun.)

[pinballwizard79]

You guys crack me up "dog, gun, safe" LOL.

A seasoned burglar will cut the cable/phone line prior to break-in, then once inside he will rip the siren down before it even goes off (you know, the same 15-45 seconds YOU the homeowner have to disarm the system is the same amount of time he has to rip down the siren) & then he will do whatever he wants in undisturbed peace & quiet.

Sure I know in this scenario the phone line wasn't even connected but it doesn't matter because now someone is in your house KNOWING its not connected because they cut it.

There are people out there too however that will find the main panel & disco the right wires & thats when your dog & gun come into play

[SteveJ34]

I have a long history with ADT primarily with office security but also home.

I do recommend the cellular system though the upfront cost is a bit to swallow. ADT is cheaper than 395 for that option at least in my recent experience with a recent office move.

As the ADT rep stated, ADT systems will self check periodically and you will be contacted in the event of an issue.

I would be hard pressed to sustain monitoring service with a provider that was completely unaware that the method by which they were to be contacted was no longer present.

[ChadTower]

Survey says most home burglaries are by unarmed cretins who would rather not get into a confrontation.  If you don't really want to shoot at someone, it might be an acceptable risk to be able to scare them off.

If you don't want to shoot at someone you don't introduce the gun.  Any gun safety officer, any police officer, they'll all tell you the same thing - don't introduce a gun unless you are 100% prepared to use it.  Don't forget that in most states you will go to jail for shooting an intruder if you can't prove he meant to harm someone.  Burglary is not intent to harm in and of itself.

[HaRuMaN]

Not in AZ and TX...  it's still the Wild West out here.   

[ChadTower]

Not in AZ and TX...  it's still the Wild West out here.   

All that means is the intruder will be armed and ready to kill.  That's not much comfort during the event.

[HaRuMaN]

Not in AZ and TX...  it's still the Wild West out here.   

All that means is the intruder will be armed and ready to kill.  That's not much comfort during the event.

True....  where's tommy and his 'friendly' pit bulls when you need them? 

[saint]

The noise is all you really need, if the alarm doesn't scare them away and you're overpowered or not even home, your neighbors will call the police for you, or on you to complain about the noise.  Either way it'll be more effective than an alarm company didn't do anything when the backup battery in the alarm system start beeping.

Counterpoints:

1. That's only if you have an outside siren. If you only have an internal sounding siren your neighbors won't know.

2. A monitored alarm system can also call the fire department if you have a fire. That's worth it's weight in gold IMHO.

Put half the money you were spending on them into your home insurance to cover all the valuables you'll be able to buy with the other half of that money.

I'll have to go check the numbers, but I get a discount on my home insurance for having a monitored alarm system. The cost of the monitored alarm system isn't very high I believe. Been a long time, I'll have to look again.

[saint]

Few more points:

1. An alarm system is a balance of security vs cost. Nothing is fool proof. What you're doing is improving the odds in your favor.

2. If you're building the house, do what we did at the advice of our alarm system installer. Have the phone line enter the house at a buried location via conduit into the house. Unless you know where to dig, you can't cut my phone line from the outside. You can cut it from the pedestal at the street, of course, but again that's fairly suspicious behavior to an observer and I'm improving the odds in my favor.

3. On my alarm system there are two modes (and I believe that's fairly common). Away mode, wherein there is a 20-30 second window to disarm it before it calls in. Home mode, wherein it calls in instantly if it alarms. You set it to home mode when you're shut up for the night.

4. The central brain of our alarm system cannot be reached in the 20-30 seconds disarm window unless you know exactly where it is and are a fast runner. If you have that knowledge I have bigger problems than a random burglar. Not even casual friends know where are system is. I'm not sure any of my friends know where ours is.

5. There are 4 sirens in my house. You're not disabling all of them. If you have an external siren it's going to be mounted up where someone can't easily get to it before it goes off.

[ChadTower]

Jim, those are defense points.  There is nothing in those laws that say cannot be charged with.  You can use them to defend yourself when charged, sure, but do you really feel like spending 6 months in court?  How about spending your life savings on an attorney?  Or the still very credible possibility that your defense is unsuccessful?

People can be as brave as they want in an internet thread but the whole point isn't "what can I do to defend my family", it is "what can I do to prevent an incident in the first place".

Here, nobody will call the police if your alarm is going off.  They will call if you are having a party, if a tree falls, if your dog is annoying them.  They will do nothing and deny having seen anything if there is an actual problem.  Your neighbors are not reliable and don't care except in that it might affect them later on.

[hulkster]

Few more points:

1. An alarm system is a balance of security vs cost. Nothing is fool proof. What you're doing is improving the odds in your favor.

2. If you're building the house, do what we did at the advice of our alarm system installer. Have the phone line enter the house at a buried location via conduit into the house. Unless you know where to dig, you can't cut my phone line from the outside. You can cut it from the pedestal at the street, of course, but again that's fairly suspicious behavior to an observer and I'm improving the odds in my favor.

3. On my alarm system there are two modes (and I believe that's fairly common). Away mode, wherein there is a 20-30 second window to disarm it before it calls in. Home mode, wherein it calls in instantly if it alarms. You set it to home mode when you're shut up for the night.

4. The central brain of our alarm system cannot be reached in the 20-30 seconds disarm window unless you know exactly where it is and are a fast runner. If you have that knowledge I have bigger problems than a random burglar. Not even casual friends know where are system is. I'm not sure any of my friends know where ours is.

5. There are 4 sirens in my house. You're not disabling all of them. If you have an external siren it's going to be mounted up where someone can't easily get to it before it goes off.

k, that sounds awesome, but how much do you pay for it?

[Blanka]

The cheapest is to get rid of the expensive stuff in the house 
(and just fill it with 200kg+ arcade cabinets)

[saint]

Few more points:

1. An alarm system is a balance of security vs cost. Nothing is fool proof. What you're doing is improving the odds in your favor.

2. If you're building the house, do what we did at the advice of our alarm system installer. Have the phone line enter the house at a buried location via conduit into the house. Unless you know where to dig, you can't cut my phone line from the outside. You can cut it from the pedestal at the street, of course, but again that's fairly suspicious behavior to an observer and I'm improving the odds in my favor.

3. On my alarm system there are two modes (and I believe that's fairly common). Away mode, wherein there is a 20-30 second window to disarm it before it calls in. Home mode, wherein it calls in instantly if it alarms. You set it to home mode when you're shut up for the night.

4. The central brain of our alarm system cannot be reached in the 20-30 seconds disarm window unless you know exactly where it is and are a fast runner. If you have that knowledge I have bigger problems than a random burglar. Not even casual friends know where are system is. I'm not sure any of my friends know where ours is.

5. There are 4 sirens in my house. You're not disabling all of them. If you have an external siren it's going to be mounted up where someone can't easily get to it before it goes off.

k, that sounds awesome, but how much do you pay for it?

Will check when I get home.