Rebuilding the Moon

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Behind the counter of an abandoned McDonalds lie 48,000 lbs of 70mm tape the only copy of extremely high-resolution images of the moon.

These tapes were recorded 40 years ago as part of the Apollo program to map the lunar surface to plan landing spots for Apollo 11 onward. They have never been seen by the public because at the time, they were classified as they reveal the extreme precision of our spy satellites. Instead, all we have ever seen are the grainy photo-of-a-photo images that were released to the public.

The spacecraft did not ship this film back to Earth. Instead, they developed the film on the Lunar Orbiter and then raster scanned the negatives with a 5 micron spot (200 lines/millimeter resolution) and beamed the data back to Earth using yet-to-be-patented-by-others lossless analog compression. Three ground stations on Earth (one was in Madrid) recorded the transmissions on these magnetic tapes.

Recovering the data has proven to be very difficult, requiring technological archeology. The only working version of the Ampex tape player ($300K when new) was discovered in a chicken coop and restored with the help of the original designer. There is only one person on Earth who still refurbishes these tape heads, and he is retiring this year. The skills to read this data archive are on the cusp of disappearing forever.

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/02files/Lunar_Orbiter_Tapes_Found.html
http://www.moonviews.com/

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The news anchor commentary is horrible though. I wish they'd just report, instead of trying to be clever.

[SavannahLion]

This sort of thing is exactly what I argue for when it comes to saving and preserving legacy hardware (and software). I can accept that technology marches on, what I can't accept is the nonchalant ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- a vast majority of the population has when these technologies are deemed obsolete.

I spent nearly a year as part of a project to preserve (not John) Kennedy files. I spent months searching all over the U.S. for a machine that can read the audio ribbons we had (turns out one was hidden in a museum store room behind an early radio facsimile machine) and casual conversation at a dinner party unearthed it. Story was many of these machines were literally tossed out of windows to be smashed on the asphalt below when they were deemed obsolete.  Now that the economy has gone to hell, this project and others like it are being swept under the rug again.

The videos are a nightmare all unto themselves and a project I never managed to complete. 

[ChadTower]

Nevermind even the idiocy of the technology issue... how the hell does our gov't spend many millions of dollars only to make a single copy of the results and then store it for decades in an abandoned McDonald's?  Didn't anyone stop to think "gee, the taxpayers paid a hell of a lot of money for this data, and it is unique in all of the world, maybe it would be useful to put it someplace climate controlled along with the machine to read it"?

You've got people who will spend half a lifetime rebuilding a boat.  A cutting edge extraterrestrial survey of the moon?  Meh, put it by the frylolater.

[Ed_McCarron]

I got the impression the folks that were retrieving the data were using the McD's as an office - not that the tapes were found there?

[Kevin Mullins]

I got the impression the folks that were retrieving the data were using the McD's as an office - not that the tapes were found there?

Right.

This project started in the late 1980's when the National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) discovered a cache of the only known remaining set of Lunar Orbiter tapes in existence stored in a "salt mine." The story there is that there are abandon salt mines that store government records, as the temperature and humidity are stable.

What does bother me is the term "discovered".
Meaning there is still lots of stuff like this that has been "stashed" away and literally someone just happens to come across it somehow. Many, many government funded programs seem to have a knack for putting stuff by the way side when the next big project comes along. (along the lines of what Chad was saying)

Great project though... look forward to seeing more of what they recover from the tapes.

[ahofle]

What does bother me is the term "discovered".
Meaning there is still lots of stuff like this that has been "stashed" away and literally someone just happens to come across it somehow. Many, many government funded programs seem to have a knack for putting stuff by the way side when the next big project comes along. (along the lines of what Chad was saying)

 

[SavannahLion]

This project started in the late 1980's when the National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) discovered a cache of the only known remaining set of Lunar Orbiter tapes in existence stored in a "salt mine." The story there is that there are abandon salt mines that store government records, as the temperature and humidity are stable.

What does bother me is the term "discovered".
Meaning there is still lots of stuff like this that has been "stashed" away and literally someone just happens to come across it somehow. Many, many government funded programs seem to have a knack for putting stuff by the way side when the next big project comes along. (along the lines of what Chad was saying)

It has a lot to do with politics and time. Someone starts a project, a bean counter decides the project isn't all that important, someone higher up orders the project shut down, those involved with the project do what they can to save what they can (eg store it in a salt mine), years pass as "management" of the storage facility changes hands, records are lost, people die or change jobs, another bean counter deems the facility an unnecessary expense and it's abandoned, sold, sealed or worse.

You people have to realize that these kinds of stories are a result of actions (or inactions) through a political process. For example, the project I assisted with was shoved onto the back burners because those higher up actually felt that the hardware and staff time would be better suited for document scans. Both projects had different hardware requirements. The document project uses cloud storage while the Kennedy project used all independent, portable and physically storable hardware. So diverting the Kennedy hardware to be used in a project that used cloud storage? The drives are now sitting in storage just collecting dust alongside the very files they were supposed to archive.  Me? I've moved onto a better paying job. As much as it breaks my heart to see my projects die without me, I have no intention of going back without better compensatory pay. What do you do? 

There's a dark cloud over this project too. Notice the YouTube video at http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/02files/Lunar_Orbiter_Tapes_Found.html was broken? Looks like that Dennis guy didn't like unauthorized video footage of him so he forced it be taken down. Good way to kill public interest in a project buddy.

[Ummon]

I saw something about this maybe a month ago....

[Dartful Dodger]

Instead of trying to work with that tape, wouldn't it be cheaper to just send a trained monkey to the moon with an HD video camera?

[Xiaou2]

Having 3 billion gigs worth of baron rock photos is basically useless.  A real waste of taxpayer dollars.

[SavannahLion]

Having 3 billion gigs worth of baron rock photos is basically useless.  A real waste of taxpayer dollars.

So it's true, you have been there?

[Kevin Mullins]

Having 3 billion gigs worth of baron rock photos is basically useless.  A real waste of taxpayer dollars.

Taxpayer dollars aspect, I agree.

But scientifically and technologically you have to step back and visualize when these images were taken. There are two immediate points I see.....
1. The moon had been unexplored in any detailed manner up until then.
2. There haven't been any images as clear as these taken even with today's technology.

I'm no Sci-Fi buff or anything, but I can respect the archival project.

[Ed_McCarron]

Having 3 billion gigs worth of baron rock photos is basically useless.  A real waste of taxpayer dollars.

Yeah.  They could put that money to better use constructing death trains or something...

[ChadTower]

Having 3 billion gigs worth of baron rock photos is basically useless.  A real waste of taxpayer dollars.

Yeah.  They could put that money to better use constructing death trains or something...

Seriously, I bet a buch of diplomats could use some more time in $5000/night hotels.

WTF is baron rock anyway?  Is that a German pop group or something?

[RayB]

I know a guy that makes a fortune to study "moon dust".  Not actual moon dust, mind you, just ground up volcano rock that's supposed to approximate the composition of lunar soil.  (frankly, I find that a rather amazing assumption given how limited our sample base is)

He dumps some chemicals on it, occasionally throws a seed in it.  Works 3 hours a day, and aspires to get a true NASA job (he's a civilian contractor like the majority of their workforce) because "then the expectations are REALLY low".  PhD from a solid school - it's just disgusting.

Knew another one that made $20/hr scanning documents and converting them to PDF.  She had 2 years to get through about two thousand pages. 

She married a guy that works for them, he waddles around to offices, discusses their database needs, and waddles back to his office where he proceeds to do nothing because they're still in the "gathering information" phase.  10 years, ~$80k a year each for 4 guys - plus expenses.  Not too shabby.

Someone sounds bitter...

[ChadTower]

So, jim, get your PhD from a solid school and maybe you too can contract for NASA.

[Ummon]

WTF is baron rock anyway?  Is that a German pop group or something?

That's a joke, right?

[ChadTower]

WTF is baron rock anyway?  Is that a German pop group or something?

That's a joke, right?

No, not sarcastic at all.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Baron Rock was once the Duke of Jazz.

[Ed_McCarron]

Baron Rock was once the Duke of Jazz.

I thought he was the prince of pop?

[HaRuMaN]

"Barren" rock, not "baron" rock...

lol 

[Ummon]

"Barren" rock, not "baron" rock...

lol 

Right. Wasn't that obvious? I guess not to some.

WTF is baron rock anyway?  Is that a German pop group or something?

That's a joke, right?

No, not sarcastic at all.

Well, ---fudgesicle---, it shoulda been.

[ChadTower]

Well, ---fudgesicle---, it shoulda been.

<sarc>Suuuuuuuure... second post wasn't either.</sarc>

Maybe we need a designated sarcasm font here?  Works well on other forums.  It's usually something like italic red.

[SavannahLion]

Well, ---fudgesicle---, it shoulda been.

<sarc>Suuuuuuuure... second post wasn't either.</sarc>

Maybe we need a designated sarcasm font here?  Works well on other forums.  It's usually something like italic red.

Like this?

I don't think I've ever really seen that.... Not for sarcasm anyways.

[ChadTower]

Like this?

I don't think I've ever really seen that.... Not for sarcasm anyways.

Yep.  Some forums even have BBcode tags for it.