Pinball Bartop finished - working on pedestal

[Dizzle]

I've been playing a lot of Future Pinball on my machine lately and I'm thinking about making a dedicated dual-screen bartop for it.  Nothing too fancy -- I'm thinking the main playing field would be a 22-24" widescreen monitor with a smaller 4:3 monitor as the backglass.  

I did a quick conceptual sketch -- it doesn't include speakers or the bezel and I'll have to re-do it once I make a final decision on the size of everything, but I attached what I was thinking.

Comments welcome...

[IG-88]

Interesting. I like the idea. What's your specs for the pc and monitors?

[sean-o-mac]

Dizzle, if you should decide to do this project, anyway you could make the designs available?

I wouldnt mind doing one too....

[BobA]

I think you would get more of a pinball feel by lowering the height of the back to reduce the angle of the sides.  The smaller 4:3 could then have a bezel that made it look more like a back box. 

If you have not seen them the September 2008 issue of GameRoom had a great spread on Future Pinball and the October 2008 issue featured a Mini-Pin and other FP pins from the FP forums.

[thatitalian]

Very very intersting. What is more interesting is that you have 2 screens, which makes it perfect for this:

[javeryh]

Very very intersting. What is more interesting is that you have 2 screens, which makes it perfect for this:

I've seen that video before - what does it take to get set up like that (front end, emulator, software, etc)?  Does the emulator and software automatically split the signal to two screens?  It would be really sweet to build something like this.

[cmoses]

Very interesting indeed.  I have been thinking about doing something similar as a project once my MAME machine is done.  I was thinking of a more traditional shape of a pinball machine, minus the legs.  Mounting the speakers under the 4:3 display.

[thatitalian]

what does it take to get set up like that (front end, emulator, software, etc)?  Does the emulator and software automatically split the signal to two screens?

Pretty much, yes. The emulator (hyperpin) basically is an FE specifically for pinball emulators. Future pinball allows you to split the screen, although it isn't really splitting the screen. It just allows you to display the scores on one output and the game on another. The FE just makes it look ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- hot!

[billpa]

I've seen that video before - what does it take to get set up like that (front end, emulator, software, etc)?  Does the emulator and software automatically split the signal to two screens?  It would be really sweet to build something like this.

Yup the desktop is not shared. They are two independent monitors. You need to set that up in your gfx card program.

Basic set up would be two monitors. You want a widescreen for your playfied. For the backbox, you can use 4:3 or 16:9 but you will see most people using 4:3 monitors. Your computer will have to be pretty fast if you are using HyperPin as it's processor intensive...although you could opt out of using videos for the playfield and just use a large hi-rez png file. I believe this cuts down on the processing a lot. Future Pinball needs a fast graphics card to play in dual monitor mode. I think most people are using Nvidia 9800 series or ATI Radeon 4800 series. I just built a rig just for pinball. It came in around 375 bucks but I had a few things on hand like a hard drive and disc drive. I also went with AMD products and held out for deals. I picked up a ATI Radeon for 104 after 30 dollar rebate. The video cards are dropping in price because of newer models coming out soon so its a good time to buy a gfx card.

The biggest price will most definitely be monitors. I can't afford to spend the money on a large HDTV so I am building a mini version. A good combo is somewhere around a 24" widescreen for playfield and a 19" 4:3 monitor for the backbox. If you end up building a full size machine, your backbox monitor will end up being smaller so you would have to build/create some sort of translite frame around the monitor much like the UltraPin machines.

HTH,
billpa

[billpa]

I've been playing a lot of Future Pinball on my machine lately and I'm thinking about making a dedicated dual-screen bartop for it.  Nothing too fancy -- I'm thinking the main playing field would be a 22-24" widescreen monitor with a smaller 4:3 monitor as the backglass. 

I did a quick conceptual sketch -- it doesn't include speakers or the bezel and I'll have to re-do it once I make a final decision on the size of everything, but I attached what I was thinking.

Comments welcome...

BTW, looks great! I like the style....definitely different. Where are you planning on putting it? I would think that the size would make it less than ideal for a bartop.

[Dizzle]

You're right, it's going to end up being way to long to be a bartop, but I've got the perfect spot to put it in the man-cave.  Otherwise, I might construct a simple pedestal for it later on down the road.

Right now, I'm running Future Pinball on a Windows XP machine with 3.0Ghz and 2 gigs of RAM.  It's an nVidia graphics card, but I honestly am not sure which one.  It runs FP in dual screen mode pretty well, but it is pretty sluggish on a table like Three Angels.  That fact, and considering that both monitors on my current set-up are 4:3 and only at 1024x768, leads me to believe that I'm going to need a much beefier rig to run everything smoothly in arcade render mode.

I'm leaning towards the 24" widescreen for the playing field, and like billpa said, about a 17" or 19" monitor for the back.  A 42" plasma table would be nice, but I have neither the money or the space for that. 

Sean-o-mac, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna give this baby a shot -- I'll definitely make plans available although I'm sure there are better examples out there 

[rooter]

Very very intersting. What is more interesting is that you have 2 screens, which makes it perfect for this:

I was thinking about doing that with a 46" monitor and dropping it in an actual pin ball case.  A 46" monitor measures 42 x 24.6 x 5.1 which I think would be the perfect width.  If I had to go down, a 40" screen I was looking at measures 36.2 x 22.4 x 13.  I want to put a black bezel over the monitor and fill in the empty space with real pin balls back lit by LED's and possibly some classic pinball artwork.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Can you buy a blank pin ball case?  Would it be easier to buy an old machine, gut it, and restore it?

Sorry if I jacked the thread, I'll start a new one when I begin the project.

[Hazzard]

Hey!

I digg your design, it looks futuristic and fresh 

I`m almost done with my own bartop pinball cab. Slightly different design, but hey, its pinball and that kicks ass! 

[billpa]

I was thinking about doing that with a 46" monitor and dropping it in an actual pin ball case.  A 46" monitor measures 42 x 24.6 x 5.1 which I think would be the perfect width.  If I had to go down, a 40" screen I was looking at measures 36.2 x 22.4 x 13.  I want to put a black bezel over the monitor and fill in the empty space with real pin balls back lit by LED's and possibly some classic pinball artwork.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?  Can you buy a blank pin ball case?  Would it be easier to buy an old machine, gut it, and restore it?

Sorry if I jacked the thread, I'll start a new one when I begin the project.

Best bet is build one from scratch. A pin cab is pretty simple. 46" screen is going to be too big. 40" is as big as you want to go. To keep the same size ratio for the playfield, you will have some empty space. You can keep it mostly up front and cover that area with a bezel or you can shorten the length of the cab, but then it will be shorter than a real pinball cab.

Here are some pics of BadBoyBill's cab for reference. You can see that he opted for a thicker bezel up front, but he used the real estate for some instruction cards.








Look for a HDTV that has a uniform thin bezel. Most of them have a bezel that is thicker at the bottom which is going to make your cab wider because you will have to offset the TV so that the physical screen is centered.  Samsung makes a line that has a pretty thin uniform bezel. I think I saw a few Sonys at BB that had them as well but they were 37 inches (still very large).

Check out the HyperPin forums for some other cabinets in progress. http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=32

[Dizzle]

I finally started working on this thing.

I changed the design a little though.  The more I looked at it, the less I liked the idea of the backglass monitor just sticking out of the cabinet.  So I modified things to keep everything contained.

Anyone have any suggestions on how many buttons are really needed for pinball simulators?  Are there a lot of Future Pinball tables that really use all of the buttons there are options for?

[Pinball Wizard]

From my tiny experience that I have of Future pinball, all you should need is 2 flipper buttons, a start button, and some method of a plunger, wether that be a push button or a real plunger is up to you.

[BobA]

2 nudge buttons would also give you some extra area of game play. The ball sometimes gets stuck and these can be really handy.

[Pinball Wizard]

You could get fancy and put in an accelerometer.

[Franco B]

It's looking great so far 

You could get fancy and put in an accelerometer.

Yup, the [U-HID G] would be ideal. I'm going to use one when I get round to building mine.

[Dizzle]

So I haven't been working on this as much as I'd like to...  Besides work and family time, there's the fact that it's been 115 degrees out here which makes working in a garage pretty unbearable.  However, I had some time on my hands yesterday and got a little more done.

The playfield is a Hanspree 23" widescreen monitor (1920x1080).  Picked it up for $179 at Best Buy.  I tested it out to see what the picture looked like and Future Pinball at that resolution looks pretty sweet.  The backglass is a 15" monitor I had laying around.

I decided to go with 10 buttons.  2 flipper buttons, 2 nudge buttons, 1 coin, 1 start, plunger, exit, special 1 and special 2.  I'll go with the traditional pushbuttons for the flipper and nudge buttons, but I'm thinking of doing something different for the rest of them (especially special 1 and 2 on the top).  Maybe lighted buttons?  Anyone hear about getting Future Pinball or PinMame to work with the LED drivers on the market?

I'd also like to hook some type of feedback device up inside to give a little knock when the flipper buttons are pressed but that might be a little too much for me to figure out.

I still don't know what color I'm going to paint it, but I'd like to go with a finish similar to what you'd find on an electric guitar.  Any tips on achieving that type of finish?

Hope to work some more on it over the weekend.

[Dizzle]

Just a little update in case anyone's interested...

I finally picked up a router.  This is the first time I've used one, but wish I had one for my first two projects.  I picked up the slot cutter and chrome t-molding from tmolding.com.  Routing the edges went real quick.  DHL also dropped off my order of chrome Ultralux pushbuttons.  (I'm going to go with a basic glossy black and chrome color scheme) 

As far as speakers go, I wanted a set that sounded really good without a subwoofer and would fit on either side of the backglass monitor.  I went with the Bose Companion IIs (got a pretty good deal) and I'm real happy with the way they sound.  The volume knob up front is a little off-putting, so I'm going to hide the speakers behind speaker grille cloth for a cleaner look.

Got a few more structural things to do and then I should be able to get started painting, which I'm gonna take my sweet time with.

[vertygo]

Looks really good, happy that you posted some more pics.

I tried getting the software to work awhile ago, but I couldn't. 

Definitely on the to-build list someday tho, and your design looks perfect.

[drventure]

Does the Hannspree have any issues being viewed from the side at that angle?

I've noticed there are lots of panels out there that don't look good from the sides like that.

I got lucky in that the first panel I bought was a Dell 2405, which just happens to use a good wide angle panel

Excellent design though! I love the look

[Dizzle]

I tried getting the software to work awhile ago, but I couldn't. 

Future Pinball was the easier program for me to get working.  What kind of problems were you having?  I must have tried 4 different times (although not recently) to get Visual Pinball/PinMame to work but never had any luck.  I'm sure I'll give it one more try since I've heard it supports portrait mode too now.

Does the Hannspree have any issues being viewed from the side at that angle?

I've noticed there are lots of panels out there that don't look good from the sides like that.

The viewing angles on the Hanspree are actually excellent.  I was pleasantly surprised about that from a monitor at that price point.  Things still get a little washed out if you move to the right of the bartop, but for this application, that shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks!

[Dizzle]

Ok, so it's not really primer.  I couldn't find spray primer so I used a few layers of Krylon flat black to get the surface ready for painting.  One more sanding and I'll start spraying the gloss (also Krylon).  I taped the edges so paint didn't get in the t-molding slot -- not sure if that was really necessary.  The legs are temporary -- only there to make painting easier.

Any Future Pinball fans out there that can suggest a good computer to run this setup?  I purposely waited until the last minute to buy one so I wouldn't rush the construction.  I've heard the nVidia graphics cards are best for the dual monitor setup, but I didn't know if anyone had any other suggestions for additional specs.

[slasherman]

Cool project, any news?

[SpaceHedgehog]

Man this is coooool! My wife just said I can make one for her. Need to finish of my current project first though.

[HaRuMaN]

Ok, so it's not really primer.  I couldn't find spray primer so I used a few layers of Krylon flat black to get the surface ready for painting.  One more sanding and I'll start spraying the gloss (also Krylon).  I taped the edges so paint didn't get in the t-molding slot -- not sure if that was really necessary.  The legs are temporary -- only there to make painting easier.

Any Future Pinball fans out there that can suggest a good computer to run this setup?  I purposely waited until the last minute to buy one so I wouldn't rush the construction.  I've heard the nVidia graphics cards are best for the dual monitor setup, but I didn't know if anyone had any other suggestions for additional specs.

Are you looking for a custom PC build, or are you looking for a consumer PC (Dell, etc.)? 

[Epyx]

Ya, can't wait to see this one done.  This would make a great addition to any private arcade.

[billpa]

Any Future Pinball fans out there that can suggest a good computer to run this setup?  I purposely waited until the last minute to buy one so I wouldn't rush the construction.  I've heard the nVidia graphics cards are best for the dual monitor setup, but I didn't know if anyone had any other suggestions for additional specs.

Go with an Nvidia card...a newer one...at least 512mb of memory...1G even better. I am running a 512mb 9800gtx+ and it works well. I know you say you are only going to run Future Pinball but you should check out VP as well. The gameplay is better imo. Future Pinball is great too. I wouldn't have one or the other...best of both worlds.

With a beefy graphics card, you are going to need a good psu...minimum of 400w but most likely want to get something in the 600w range. Any decent core 2 duo will do for a proc. 2G Ram min...probably end up with 4G just because of how cheap memory is. hard drive and mobo is really up to you as long as it is compatible with the other parts.

I built my rig for around 400. It works well...plays everything well with the exception of some of the hi rez texture VP night mods. Occasionally I have to rez down some of the textures to play them.  Definitely check out HyperPin for a front end. It simplifies all of the launching and exiting in a nice interface...and you can sort tables by manufacturer, emulator, etc. as well as have a mixed favorites list (FP and VP on the same wheel)

Looking really good! Can't wait to see the final product.

[Dizzle]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone... 

Thanks for the advice billpa.... Where did you order all of your parts from?  I definitely plan on using it for VP also -- it won't be exclusive to Future Pinball.

I got the painting done over the weekend.  It came pretty close to what I was envisioning -- not quite the mirror finish that Hazzard has on his Pro-Pinball bartop  , but it is a nice smooth, shiny finish.  I've also got the t-molding on and the speakers installed.  I changed the speaker system to the Logitech Z4s -- they don't sound as nice as the Bose system, but I liked the way they looked in the cab better.  (The Bose system is currently being put to good use in my 4 player setup)

I decided that I'm going to build a pedestal for this thing after I get everything else done.

Now to get started on the bezel....

[billpa]

Man it is really looking nice!

I got most of my parts from newegg. I still haven't built my cab...shooting to have it completed by christmas (for my son). But I took some time to find some deals on some parts as I am on a tight budget.

[Dizzle]

I took some time off of this project for a little while but am getting back into it.  I've got the minipac installed and have the bezel cut.  The bartop is basically finished (I just need to cut the plexi) and I've moved on to building a pedestal for it since it's kinda big.

I was thinking I was just going to go with a simple pedestal -- painted just like the mini-pin with chrome t-molding.  But I wanted to see if anyone had any cool design ideas for it.  Or should I just go plain?  The front panel of the pedestal hasn't been attached so I can still work on it.

[Turnarcades]

I'm really into the idea of building a pin table or Bar-Top pinball similar myself, however I've always had issues trying to set the emulators up properly, particularly with a front-end. I love the idea of doing it but as I've always managed to squeeze game performance out of low-end PC's for arcade games, I'm wondering if there is a way to do this with a pin emulator? Can anyone recommend a good emulator/frontend combo that is not too resource-hungry and maybe has a tutorial somewhere online for setting up both the emulator and the front-end?

[JohnEDollar]

I'd recommend Atomic FE -->  http://www.atomicfe.com/

It's completely customizable, runs with ANY emulator, has great support, and is FREE!!!

It's the frontend I'll be using for my MAME cabinet.

[Dazz]

I'm really into the idea of building a pin table or Bar-Top pinball similar myself, however I've always had issues trying to set the emulators up properly, particularly with a front-end. I love the idea of doing it but as I've always managed to squeeze game performance out of low-end PC's for arcade games, I'm wondering if there is a way to do this with a pin emulator? Can anyone recommend a good emulator/frontend combo that is not too resource-hungry and maybe has a tutorial somewhere online for setting up both the emulator and the front-end?

Virtual Pinball has become the emulator of choice for the pinball emu scene.  Future Pinball is also available, but lacking rom support keeps a lot of the table builders away.  There are some awesome tables on both of the emulators that warrant having both installed.

As far as the front end...  HyperPin is THE front end for virtual tables. Nothing else out there even remotely comes close to doing what HypePin does as far as a pinball specific front end goes.  Previously Maximus Arcade was what most of the virtual pinball scene used.

[billpa]

I love the idea of doing it but as I've always managed to squeeze game performance out of low-end PC's for arcade games, I'm wondering if there is a way to do this with a pin emulator? Can anyone recommend a good emulator/frontend combo that is not too resource-hungry and maybe has a tutorial somewhere online for setting up both the emulator and the front-end?

You really can't get away from using a higher end pc for building a pin cab, whether mini or full size, unless you were running on a 4:3 screen with the table in perspective and using an older version of a pin simulator like Visual Pinball 8. However, it doesn't look good imho.

There are only two pinball simulators...Visual Pinball and Future Pinball. Both require a good pc to run them in full screen cab mode. And there is only one really good front-end specifically built for them, HyperPin.  When you download HyperPin, there is a help file that covers a lot of the initial setup.  However, the HyperPin forum is the best place to get help.

Here is a basic FAQ we have for beginner pin cab builders: http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4764

One of our members came up with a nice little Cabinet Guide here:

http://pinacolada.danielpotter.com/cabinet-parts-guide/

And there are tons of pin cab projects listed here:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5082

If you have any questions, feel free to drop by the HyperPin forum and ask away. There are lots of members that will chime in and help you out.

[spystyle]

Super nice