Errant pixels on Wii

[SavannahLion]

A few days ago, my GF wanted to move the Wii from the 27" to the 42". "Sure, no problem!" I say. Quick trip to Fry's from some component cables then I spent about two hours diagnosing why the Wii looks like crap.

I don't mean, crap, is in the Wii can't show anything more than 480p and antialiasing is nonexistent. I mean, crap, as in, "WTF are all these flickering pixels doing all over the place?"

Checked everything over and over, even grabbed the old DVD player (which outputs 480p), swapped cables, connectors, etc and the problem is definitely with the Wii itself. A bit of Googling finally reveals the problem as rather common, annoying as hell, and fixable by Nintendo.

Apparently, the WiiConnect24 overheats the Wii (which I already knew) which in turns damages the GPU and/or video RAM (which I just learned) which in turn creates the super annoying errant pixels. They're there with the crappy composite but it's easy to think that they're just interference or crap from the TV.

This is great, I've got a first release Wii so I'm pretty much betting it's way out of warranty. I emailed Nintendo support through their website on Tuesday night to see what they say, but I still haven't received a response. I'm thinking about calling to see what I can get from them. I can't help but wonder how long I had this problem with the smaller screen and thought it was just interference from an older/smaller TV? 

OK, I'm done ranting.

[SavannahLion]

Got off the phone from Nintendo. The support guy has never heard of this problem (no surprise there) and says that to send it in is going to cost me $75+$10S&H to get it done. 

So I have the choice of living with this on the 42" while I decide if it's worth a repair or sell the unit to some place like Gamestop for money towards a 360 or PS3 or move it back to the 27" and pretend it's static/interference again.   

[Blanka]

This one had better luck:

Just call again I would say.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Hmm I had wii connect 24 on for the longest and never noticed the system draw for power going up or any heat buildup.   I just turned it off the other day actually since it never worked right for me (no Mii's in my parade and thats the only reason I had it on)

Sucks what happened, but the Wii is still a good system.

[ChadTower]

...or you can not use WiiConnect24 since it's stupid and useless.  Connect manually when you want to play one of the few games for which online play is worthwhile.  It's not worth the power your Wii sucks 24/7 or the wear on the system itself.

Of course, that's not going to help SavannahLion, but it's a damn shame to damage the system with something as stupid as WiiConnect24.

[patrickl]

...or you can not use WiiConnect24 since it's stupid and useless. 

What's even worse is that for some functions, switching on WiiConnect24 is mandatory.

[ChadTower]

...or you can not use WiiConnect24 since it's stupid and useless. 

What's even worse is that for some functions, switching on WiiConnect24 is mandatory.

Most of them require it.  That's completely stupid since they're all simple request based crap like weather and voting.  From a distributed enterprise software point of view (that's what I do for a living) it makes absolutely no sense unless there is something else going on behind the scenes that the user is not privy to.  They have to be using it for some sort of data/usage collection purpose.  The only even partially justifiable reason I can come up with is forced software updates and they don't even do that.

[patrickl]

...or you can not use WiiConnect24 since it's stupid and useless. 

What's even worse is that for some functions, switching on WiiConnect24 is mandatory.

Most of them require it. 

Really? I forgot which function actually needs it, but I always have it off and then sometimes I have to switch it back and IIRC that was on for only one thing. OS updates or maybe the store? Of course weather and news need it too, but seriously, who uses that?

When I still had WiiConnect24 on, I usually pressed the "power off" switch on the Wii itself for a few seconds so the led goes red. Then there is no Wii connect active either.

[knave]

LOL...you guys are scaring me...I've had wiiconnect on for the past two years and havn't noticed any problems...Now I'm at work and want to run home to check on my Wii. 

I do sometimes use the weather...the news not so much but I have enjoyed the nintendo channel as my daughter downloads demo's onto her DS.  I guess I'm just going to sqwirm today and wait till I get home to feel my Wii to see how warm it is. 

I got mixed results from google...some say it's only a few consoles...some say it's all. Others say adding fans to the outside blocks more air than it flows...so perhaps I'll just add some under wii cooling and hold the power button to force the wii to "off" mode.

One thought I have is to just mount a spair CPU fan into the stand that the Wii comes with...We'll see what I have and what fits...I expect it to last me forever...after all I still use my playstation one and my sega genesis.

[SavannahLion]

Of course, that's not going to help SavannahLion, but it's a damn shame to damage the system with something as stupid as WiiConnect24.

That's what really rubs my   about this whole thing. I understand wear and tear items, such as the disc drive going out. Even on older systems, I can accept that there were design issues like the front loader NES that increased physical wear and decreased the MTBF (which is easily fixed and was). But this is caused by an actual design oversight. One engineer probably decided to have three power levels (I didn't even know about the "red light" mode more than four months into owning the Wii) and another engineer probably decided to let the WiiConnect24 function while in standby, not realizing the fan (or heat sensor) is disabled in that mode. Even worse, this is probably patchable in a firmware update. Automatically shutdown WiiConnect24 in all but the "ON" state or enable the fan in the standby mode.

This is probably the first console I've owned to have a breakdown within five years. It makes the total cost of owning a Wii much less pleasant. It probably would've been cheaper to pay upfront the higher cost for the PS3

[knave]

I feel you Savanna...For overheating of anything to be an issue is a gross oversight.  There's just no excuse.

It makes me wonder thought why this isn't bigger news...like the Xbox RROD. Perhaps it will be? Or is it only a few consoles.

[ChadTower]

This is probably the first console I've owned to have a breakdown within five years. It makes the total cost of owning a Wii much less pleasant. It probably would've been cheaper to pay upfront the higher cost for the PS3

Not that the manufacturers will tell you this but it's unreasonable to expect any compled consumer level electronics product to run 24/7 for years without some sort of failure.  Consumer electronics simply aren't built to that standard.  Even "always on" stuff like Tivos only last a couple years before some component fails.  That's the difference between commercial hardware and consumer hardware.  Would anyone buy a console that cost $1000 but was guaranteed to last 8 years of continuous duty?

[patrickl]

True, which makes it all the more strange why do they force you to leave the Wii on 24/7.

[ChadTower]

True, which makes it all the more strange why do they force you to leave the Wii on 24/7.

I haven't even plugged the LAN cable into mine in months.  You don't need to leave WiiConnect on unless you care about the stupid things like Weather or voting on which is more important - peanut butter or jelly.

[knave]

Not that the manufacturers will tell you this but it's unreasonable to expect any compled consumer level electronics product to run 24/7 for years without some sort of failure.  Consumer electronics simply aren't built to that standard. 

I know some TV's that still work pretty well after 20+ years, also some stereos, and even  PC's. 

[MrMojoZ]

It makes me wonder thought why this isn't bigger news...like the Xbox RROD. Perhaps it will be? Or is it only a few consoles.

Same reasons flaws in Apple products aren't talked about. Only Micrsoft makes things that break. 

[patrickl]

True, which makes it all the more strange why do they force you to leave the Wii on 24/7.

I haven't even plugged the LAN cable into mine in months.  You don't need to leave WiiConnect on unless you care about the stupid things like Weather or voting on which is more important - peanut butter or jelly.

I didn't even know the Wii has a LAN port. I thought it was Wifi only.

True you don't really need WiiConnect for playing games (IIRC), but for Wii updates, the store or indeed using some of the online info features you need WiiConnect. When you first get the Wii you want to use those things and so you have to switch on WiiConnect. For no good reason. It should be able to download weather info on the fly like any website can. Chances are people don't mess with the settings after the first few weeks and thus loads of Wii's are left on all the time.

[ChadTower]

Not that the manufacturers will tell you this but it's unreasonable to expect any compled consumer level electronics product to run 24/7 for years without some sort of failure.  Consumer electronics simply aren't built to that standard. 

I know some TV's that still work pretty well after 20+ years, also some stereos, and even  PC's. 

Some.  Figure on the percentage of the TVs that were actually sold, though.  And how many of those PCs are working without any physical changes?  How many PCs get thrown out because one component failed?

And how many of any of those run continuous duty?  Some old PCs did but how many people have you known that had their TV or stereo on 24/7?

I didn't even know the Wii has a LAN port. I thought it was Wifi only.

USB LAN adapter.  The Wii does have USB ports on the back.  I don't have wireless at my house.

[patrickl]

Don't forget that running 24/7 adds usage dramatically faster than normal use. If the example TV was used for an average of 4 hours a day for 20 years, it would get the same amount of usage in just over 3 years of running it 24/7. So it would most likely break in 3 years.

[knave]

Don't forget that running 24/7 adds usage dramatically faster than normal use. If the example TV was used for an average of 4 hours a day for 20 years, it would get the same amount of usage in just over 3 years of running it 24/7. So it would most likely break in 3 years.

I agree. I just wish I could expect my electronics to last at least as long as my old TV and fridge. My alarmclock/clockradio is an anomaly...it has been on 24/7 for over 20 years.

[ChadTower]

That's why I specified complex consumer electronics.  The alarm clock doesn't count as it's pretty much a chip/display and a radio which isn't much more, likely on separate circuits.  Even the TV is a pretty simple device so long as you aren't looking at something like crappy Chinese caps or inferior soldering on the PCBs.


Your fridge is not electronic unless it is computer controlled.  Until recent years they were all raw AC appliances and many of them still are.

[SavannahLion]

I feel you Savanna...For overheating of anything to be an issue is a gross oversight.  There's just no excuse.

It makes me wonder thought why this isn't bigger news...like the Xbox RROD. Perhaps it will be? Or is it only a few consoles.

I think the difference is it’s really tough to miss an RROD. An RROD isn’t really something you can just ignore and keep on playing.

It's possible that most people won't notice the errant pixels on the Wii for the same reason I didn't notice for so long. I had the Wii plugged into a 27" SD CRT for the last three years or so. A lot of TV channels (yes, on cable,  you Comcast) tend to look pretty crappy to begin with. So you get used to seeing a little bit of random static. With the Wii plugged into the 27" on Composite cables, this is exactly what the errant pixels look like, random static. Feed that image into a 42" TV, swap in some component cables, and that errant static "pops" and becomes very very noticeable. Going back to the composite, you then realize what you thought was random "static" from a crap TV is actually random pixels from a crapped Wii.

Not that the manufacturers will tell you this but it's unreasonable to expect any compled consumer level electronics product to run 24/7 for years without some sort of failure.  Consumer electronics simply aren't built to that standard.  Even "always on" stuff like Tivos only last a couple years before some component fails.  That's the difference between commercial hardware and consumer hardware.  Would anyone buy a console that cost $1000 but was guaranteed to last 8 years of continuous duty?

That’s true to a degree. Most consumer electronics are operated in a reasonable and expected way and, more importantly, designed that way. Figure the average weekly usage of your TV (in an American household) to be about 30 to 40 hours a week as reasonable vs the same TV used as a menu screen in a restaurant at 12/7 to 24/7 as excessive.

With the Wii, that really isn’t the case. Nintendo specifically designed the Wii to default to the Standby state, both through the WiiMote function and panel face. You have to force the Wii into a lower “off” state through the panel. Even though it’s not exactly encouraged by Nintendo to place the Wii in standby mode, Nintendo really does very little to encourage users to power down the Wii. It’s not the default option. There is no way to make it the default option. You can’t power down to off with the WiiMote and you have to know to hold down the Wii power button on the panel to bring it to this state.

In any case, I expect wear and tear on physical moving parts such as disc drives, fans, slot connectors, etc. I also expect cap failure and even the occasional hit & miss on MTBF for the solid state components.

What I don't expect are design deficiencies causing a product to fail or behave outside of spec well before anyone expects it to fail.

In all fairness, the Wii shouldn't have this problem because it should never have been designed in that way, period. Given that there are several possible (and easy) ways to prevent this from Nintendo’s side, it makes the failure all the more annoying.

[johnnya]

I had this same exact problem with my Wii. In 480p, there were weird pixels, but it wasn't always obvious. It was really obvious in the dark areas of the lanes in Wii bowling and also in Zelda TP. I don't recall how I contacted Nintendo, either by phone or their web site, but they sent me a box, and I sent it back. Came back like a week later. Said they "couldn't find anything wrong with it." They sent me a replacement though. What do you know, the replacement didn't have the problem that they couldn't identify. Just a warning, they transfer over all of your content, but you won't be able to edit your Miis anymore. It will tell you that you have to be the creator of the Mii in order to edit them. It must work off the console ID or something. In other words, just use their web site form, and send it back.

[SavannahLion]

On my Wii, it's more noticeable on solid color areas. eg, close ups of the bowling lane on Wii Sports or the white areas of the Wii menu. It's better the darker the area. The errant pixels virtually disappear on black areas such as the Wii sub menus. Interestingly, it's really difficult to find the errant pixels on the empty channels on the Wii menu. They're there, but you have to know where to look and what to look for.

I have checked the Nintendo site and the site insists on a $75 repair fee because my serial number is out of warranty. Did the phone call thing and the same thing (+$10 for S&H). So either way, it looks like I have to pay $75 and then some. 

I'm not entirely keen on getting a "replacement" Wii. If Nintendo operates anything like some manufacturers I worked at, they simply send out someone else's Wii in place of mine in order to buy time to do the repair or recycle. My Wii shell is still baby butt smooth and it grosses me out to see some of these polished consoles (PS3 included) with scratch swirls, dirt grind and general grossness.

Our TV also has this annoying polished look and I give it shy of four months before it starts looking like those dumb ---Cleveland steamer--- cars with the bad wax jobs.

[TOK]

I didn't even know the Wii has a LAN port. I thought it was Wifi only.
 

It doesn't have an ethernet port, but they make a USB to ethernet adapter for it.
Mine has been on Wii connect 24 since I got it. I guess it's almost 2 years. I don't use any of the mii crap or voting, but I do occasionally use it to look at stuff on the internet.
It'll probably crap out now that they've finally made 2 games I like... House of the Dead:Overkill and the Williams Pinball Hall of Fame.

[knave]

I found out this weekend that you can turn the standby mode off so the Wii powers down fully and still have Wiiconnect24 on for any internet use. It should have been the default. Now if I hit the power button on the wiimote my wii powers down fully to a red light. Hopefully no damage was done in two years of "leaving it on". 

[ChadTower]

If you have Wiiconnect24 off it always powers down to red.  Mine has always been like that.  Didn't see any point in sucking current 24 hours a day for the weather and voting features.

[knave]

If you have Wiiconnect24 off it always powers down to red.  Mine has always been like that.  Didn't see any point in sucking current 24 hours a day for the weather and voting features.

Same if you turn standby to off.

[patrickl]

If you have Wiiconnect24 off it always powers down to red.  Mine has always been like that.  Didn't see any point in sucking current 24 hours a day for the weather and voting features.

Same if you turn standby to off.

Ah I better look for that setting too then. That's better then switching on/off WiiConnect24 every time I do need it, or to press the on/off switch for 5 seconds every time.

[knave]

From memory...

"wii options"
->next page...
->Wiiconnect24...
->standby mode. (turn to "off")
->"comfirm"

[SavannahLion]

From memory...

"wii options"
->next page...
->Wiiconnect24...
->standby mode. (turn to "off")
->"comfirm"

I'll be damned, I'll have to check that when I get home.

Too little too late for me though. It should be the default behavior.

[northerngames]

 I had read awhile back it is the GPU itself that is faulty sometimes and if you want to see if your GPU is faulty or not run resident evil 4 for the gamecube on it for awhile.

if it makes it with no display errors then it should be alright if it burns it up and cause's display problems then you had a faulty GPU from the get go.

 I had read that problem in multiple forums awhile back and RE4 was suggested to test and see if it had a good one or a bad one before the warrenty went out.

that way they did not get stuck down the road with a fualty one and no warrenty.

 I am not sure if that was truth or internet myth but I had read it in different forums and they all suggested that game RE4 becuase it makes the wii gpu work harder then any other game supposedly.

[ViciousXUSMC]

I do not see how wii-connect can hurt the gpu from a technical standpoint I have had mine on forever until just recently and it seems to work much like how a computers sleep mode works.

It only keeps certian parts of the system in a very low power state mode.  In this case the network chips and the memory.  The GPU should not be in any use because there is no display being powered nor any video signal being sent out.

I feel no heat from my wii when it was on, and could not sense any of the major internal functions being on.

I feel the guess just posted about some gpu's being defect from the start is more logical, that or just bad luck had it break. I mean my playstation has to play games with the system upside down! its not like they do not make consoles with defects.

The last defending factor is that GPU's are rated in incredibly high zones of tempature to be running safe, your aveage gpu wont reach thermal throttle until over 110c! and thats just the throttle point, not the shut down point and thats where it will turn itself off to prevent damage.

Its almost impossible for the gpu to be under load if there is not something be actively rendered by it.  So I have to conclude that this Wii-Connect rumor is false.

[ChadTower]

Be glad you didn't put it into one of tommy's glass coffins.   

[Level42]

Actually never thought about it. In the beginning I didn't have the Wii connected to the internet. I changed internet provider and got WiFi so then I figured I'd try it and it's fun for games like Mario Kart.

I didn't even think about the 24/7 connection, although I did realise the power led not going to red (only if I held it down manually).

Switched it off now in the settings as I simply never use any of those channels and stuff. And I don't like stuff eating power for nothing.

However, my Wii's still fine. There was a disc inside I ejected it ant it was very mildly warm, nothing serious. My room is "room temperature", 21 degr. Celsius, so normal conditions.

By the way, I just ordered the Flatmod for my Wii. No soldering !
And an R4 for my son's DS

[ChadTower]

Flatmod... is that what it looks like?  A disc swapper?

Dude, the Wii Clip works fine, and only involves soldering big pads on the clip itself.  You can do that blindfolded.

[Level42]

Disc swapper ?

I don't get it.


It's just a mod like a Wasabi or any of the others but no need for soldering. And even if I wanted to solder on my Wii, I probably can't because I most likely have the model with the epoxy layer all over.

Cheers

[ChadTower]

Ah, the video demo I found made it look like a disc swapper (put in original, stop disc, eject, put in copy).  All of the info on this one seems pretty vague from what I can tell... even worse than usual for mods.

[knave]

Level42, You'll have to post a review when you get it. It looks interesting.

[patrickl]

Level42,

Any specific reason why you went for Flatmod and not Drivekey or Wasabi DX?

[Level42]

Think I answered that question already:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90158.msg948320#msg948320

 

[northerngames]

 Not to knock any chips or start a hardmod/softmod battle but the twilight hack with the homebrew channel installed with some apps does everything chips do and then some without even opening a wii or using any tools and it works on all versions no matter what type drive is in it.

 From there you can add more extra channels to the dash and apps in each of the extra channels that most chips will never see, run, or get updated with if they do have some.

 Everything is drap drop on a SD card that goes in the front sd slot after the twighlight hack is installed so things can be changed and updated whenever really without tools or taking anything apart ever.







 

[ChadTower]

I need to do that too. 

[patrickl]

Think I answered that question already:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=90158.msg948320#msg948320

 

Ehm no you didn't, but I guess you answered it with "no" now by not realizing that all three options are installed on the flat cable

[Level42]

So I'm not checking around for a couple of weeks and now there's a working soft-mod, and all the other mod cards are installed on the flatcable now ?

Last time I looked the soft-mod didn't work 100% yet and all the other mod-cards needed soldering to a number of places. Again, I've most likely got a Wii with an epoxy layer all over to prevent soldering on the board since I only got it pretty recently. And also because of this I have the latest drive (D2E ?) that requires more soldering points than the earlier drives.

[knave]

When I googled "Flatmod" to find out what it was I found that there are at least three other modchips that connect to the flat cable like that with no soldering.

I thought these were pretty interesting...I'm in no hurry to mod my Wii but someday...perhaps.

[patrickl]

So I'm not checking around for a couple of weeks and now there's a working soft-mod, and all the other mod cards are installed on the flatcable now ?

Last time I looked the soft-mod didn't work 100% yet and all the other mod-cards needed soldering to a number of places. Again, I've most likely got a Wii with an epoxy layer all over to prevent soldering on the board since I only got it pretty recently. And also because of this I have the latest drive (D2E ?) that requires more soldering points than the earlier drives.

Lol, yeah, a few weeks ago the major solder mod manufacturers all introduced a cable mod. DriveKey was first and the other two were announced close after that. Basically it's the same people: Wiikey -> DriveKey, Cyclowiz -> Wasabi and Wiinja  -> FlatMod. There are more coming still. Wiinewz.com is usually a good source for info on these mods.

There is also FlatMii which allows you to play ISO files from your PC.

I was looking at the DriveKey myself (mostly because they were first to offer this type of mod and I liked the WiiKey), but I can't really see much difference between these flat cable mods. Guess it doesn't matter.

I don't think soft mods work. Sometimes they do, but Nintendo closes them.

[SavannahLion]

ViciousXUSMC, the general theory behind the overheating is due to the fan not operating during standby and WiiConnect24 enabled.

BTW, I did find a screen shot that illustrates the graphics problem.
img0270cs5.jpg

[ChadTower]

I hadn't seen WiiNewz yet... that's pretty good.  And actually updated regularly.  Nice.

[Level42]

Well brilliant. I ordered the R4 card plus the Flatmod together with that special kind of screwdriver you need to open the Wii. Turns out that some screws are regular "Phillips" screws, but so tiny that I don't have a screwdriver that fits.....

Anyway, focussed on the R4 and what is there to say ? It's all too easy really ! When I got it I thought, where's the software for it, ah probably have to download it from the site. Not so. You don't need any software. In fact, you simply drag the files to the games directory on the memory card. Works fine on the Mac. Wohoo, that Atari 10 in 1 game is not a bad conversion....

And Bubble Bobble DS, and SI, and.... o wait this is for my son....well OK then New SMB on there too....luv it.

[Level42]

By the way, that R4 made me think that there should be a similar cart for the Atari Lynx. Could easily fit the entire collection of games on one card I guess.

[SavannahLion]

By the way, that R4 made me think that there should be a similar cart for the Atari Lynx. Could easily fit the entire collection of games on one card I guess.

There was, I think it was part of a homebrew devkit at one time. I don't really recall too much about them other than they were ridiculously expensive since Lynx games were a pain to find on the P2P networks and NIB games were selling for pretty cheap on eBay anyways. They were pretty common on eBay at one point (how I found them in the first place, it was during my Lynx library collecting phase) but I haven't seen them since.

There was also a devkit that was(is?) available, but that required a bulky unit and a minor hack to the Lynx. I've seen it maybe two or three times, only once on eBay. I'm not sure where it comes from.

[SavannahLion]

Oh, I should mention, the Lynx cart I remember wasn't really anything like an R4. It was a one-game-at-a-time thing. I'm just illustrating that it certainly is possible.

[northerngames]

I don't think soft mods work. Sometimes they do, but Nintendo closes them.[/quote]

 Not true at all twighlight mod with homebrew channel is solid as any chip out there just dont update to a later menu version online and your good to go but that goes for any "chip or softmod" at any time though.

 There is also software to downgrade pretty much anything in no time all through SD if it even happend but I dunno if the same could be said for any certian chip as they dont have the software to do so built into them

 If nintendo makes a update that somehow did render it useless there is a work around released within days not sure if the chip teams are that fast.

 There is thousands that can work with free open source code that gets updated all the time as to somebodys secret chip info that there not sharing with anyone or writing any prgrams for and that was probably taken from a free source code program to begin with.

like I was saying prior though I am not trying to argue over what is better but the softmod options have all chips beat function wise becuase it is always getting something newer/better/upgraded/more compatible all the time and you dont even have to open it up everytime you need to change/upgrade/downgrade something.

[Level42]

The flatmod can be updated through a DVD so no need to open the Wii once it's installed.

There's a much leaner and probably cheaper dev-cart for the Lynx from Germany:
http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113219&hl=lynx%20multi%20cart




Not very expensive either (79 not sure dollars or euro's) but it will hold only one game at a time (512k max memory). You can upload games through USB but I'd still prefer a "one cart with all games" solution.

I've got a special Lynx cart that accepts a standard EPROM for some 8 years now. Bought that at some Lynx club that was still around at that time. It still has the one game on it that came with it, I never bothered getting other Eproms. Don't have a burner/eraser either.

I do apologize for completely drifting off-topic here....

[ChadTower]

The Lynx probably can't handle the type of address space you'd need to store all of the games on one card.  It's very limited.

[northerngames]

just curious I know the chips flash bios may be upgraded by disk but can the system be upgraded and downgraded for the system menu, mios, and cios and the added extra channels through the chips?

 does it allow you to add emu's as extra channels or does it already have them have them built into the chips bios and they to can be upgraded by disk if needed or do you need to put the emu's on disk only in order to run?

 if you get a dirty disk error while flashing or a fualty install it is also possible to brick the wii plus you must burn a disk each time you want to do anything custom with it where with a sd card you could put what is needed on it as many times as you need and have it all installed before the cd finish's its burn.

 I am just trying to figure out why one would go with a chip nowadays plus they cost money where the other method you need a $5.00 SD card.

 the twighlight with homebrew channel is like the PS2's FMCB soft mod ever since they released it there is no need for ps2 chips anymore for the PS2 fat systems or any reason to open them becuase the FMCB rendered them all useless as it is free and does way more then any chip out there for the ps2 and same thing the open source programs, apps, dash's, and what not are always being upgraded and improved now where most the chips are the same today as they were years and years ago and very limited on what they can offer beside just playing backups..

[Level42]

The Lynx probably can't handle the type of address space you'd need to store all of the games on one card.  It's very limited.

That can hardly be the problem. There have been tricks to adress more memory ever since the old 8 bit machines were around (like the bank-switching in the Atari 130XE).
First: I don't know how the Lynx works, but seeing that there's a regular EPROM on that card without _any_ further electronics, I suppose the Lynx simply adresses the ROM as needed. So, to have a working multi-Lynx-cart you'd need to load the game into a fixed memory area of 512KB from the "main" area.
Again, I have no clue HOW that can be done, but there are similar carts that work like this I guess like the Vectrex multi.

[ChadTower]

Okay, let me rephrase what I actually meant:  The Lynx can't do that without a complex enough cartridge that would cost so much to produce that it would sell 5 copies. 

You can't do it straight up - and there really isn't much of a Lynx following now.

[Level42]

just curious I know the chips flash bios may be upgraded by disk but can the system be upgraded and downgraded for the system menu, mios, and cios and the added extra channels through the chips?

 does it allow you to add emu's as extra channels or does it already have them have them built into the chips bios and they to can be upgraded by disk if needed or do you need to put the emu's on disk only in order to run?

 if you get a dirty disk error while flashing or a fualty install it is also possible to brick the wii plus you must burn a disk each time you want to do anything custom with it where with a sd card you could put what is needed on it as many times as you need and have it all installed before the cd finish's its burn.

 I am just trying to figure out why one would go with a chip nowadays plus they cost money where the other method you need a $5.00 SD card.

 the twighlight with homebrew channel is like the PS2's FMCB soft mod ever since they released it there is no need for ps2 chips anymore for the PS2 fat systems or any reason to open them becuase the FMCB rendered them all useless as it is free and does way more then any chip out there for the ps2 and same thing the open source programs, apps, dash's, and what not are always being upgraded and improved now where most the chips are the same today as they were years and years ago and very limited on what they can offer beside just playing backups..

Sorry, I don't understand half of what you write about. I'm a simple Wii user. Play games. Don't do much with channels and I don't even know what Cios and Mios are ?

I figure flashing the flatmod will not be needed every week, so a disc more or less. And can't the Wii read DVD-RW's ?

Really, I'm pretty green to all this. The soft solutions tend to be a bit harder to do....need to know what you're doing where the mod chips are pretty much plug and play.

[northerngames]

Mios is the main menu's OS

Cios is the custom OS overall

Cios is kinda like going from windows 98 to xp OS wise in a way.

Changing the way your desktop/main menu layout look would be the Mios part.

[SavannahLion]

The Lynx probably can't handle the type of address space you'd need to store all of the games on one card.  It's very limited.

That can hardly be the problem. There have been tricks to adress more memory ever since the old 8 bit machines were around (like the bank-switching in the Atari 130XE).
First: I don't know how the Lynx works, but seeing that there's a regular EPROM on that card without _any_ further electronics, I suppose the Lynx simply adresses the ROM as needed. So, to have a working multi-Lynx-cart you'd need to load the game into a fixed memory area of 512KB from the "main" area.
Again, I have no clue HOW that can be done, but there are similar carts that work like this I guess like the Vectrex multi.

Well... have you actually handled a Lynx I, II and cart? The Lynx I has very little wiggle room due to the placement of the cart in the right grip. Lynx II is more typical of most handhelds with the cart slot at the top behind the screen. The carts themselves are PCB thin. You can hold the cart up to the light and see the IC inside (probably held right behind the sticker). Unless the PCB fits inside the Lynx I, you'll easily alienate... ah, who am I kidding, any collector with a Lynx I will have the II so it's really a moot point.

Schematic 

[Level42]

I have both a Lynx 1 and 2 (and lots of carts) but I've always preferred the 1. The controls just feel better on that one. And I think the overall build quality is better. Yes the way the cart is in the machine is a pita though.
The LCD of the 1 is better than the 2 as well.

And indeed, the EPROM board I've got only fits in the 2, that is, it fits in the 1 but you can't close the lid and thus it's almost unplayable.

[ChadTower]

It's not so much the hardware as it is the fact that the games aren't even as good as monochrome gameboy games and there are so few that stood up to time.  I'm usually one of the last to write off an old console but this one just isn't all that much fun.   

[Level42]

I beg your pardon ?

Chips Challenge is one of the best games I've seen on any system.

Period.

That game alone justifies the system.

And how about that great shooter Gates of Zendocon.

It also has a number of great arcade translations, Ms.Pac is probably the best conversion I've seen (including great easter eggs). Joust, MC are very nicely done too although MC obviously misses the trackball.

Other great games: Shadow Of The Beast, Pinball Jam (to me the first _really_ fun pinball videogame), STUN runner,Toki and of course Klax. I haven't by far got every game, but those I've either played or own them

I never liked the Gameboy, always saw it as a child's toy. I could barely see wtf was going on on that lousy, not back-lit B/W display.  Even my 1983 LCD watch had a better contrast

The Lynx smoked it and the Sega portable, but it just was a battle it couldn't win.

Sorry Chad, but either you haven't played enough games on this system or have only seen the worse one's (which there were plenty of too of course).

Back to topic (well not really): I've installed the Flatmod and the good news is that at least the Wii is still working. Weird thing i that the red LED is not on when I switch it off though, but it runs fine otherwise. I haven't tried a backup game yet though....

[ChadTower]

At one point I had a Lynx and about 75% of the library for it... just didn't think it was that good.     Sold if off long ago since I didn't think it was worth keeping.  I think I still have one Lynx around and maybe two games.  Keep in mind this was out around the same time as the TurboExpress... vastly superior in every way and what I was usually playing. 

[ChadTower]

Oooh... I see they're starting to come out with some really good homebrew for the Wii... I see a v0.3 on what looks like an XBMC equivalent.  That would rock.

[Level42]

Well that Flatmod is not giving me much joy yet.

I've tried burning the config disc which you can download from their site. It's an ISO file so you'd expect it to be easy enough to burn and run. However I tried burning it with Toast, says it's a CD-XA iso and refuses to burn it on a DVD (which I should according the support). So I downloaded Disco and it happily burnt the iso but I only get a disc error on the Wii.

They suggested to burn on a PC, so ran Deepburner under Vmware Fusion to burn the ISO and it behaves a bit different, after a lot of disc access going on, I get a black screen telling me there was an error and to turn off the Wii.....

This sucks. WTF don't they include a known working disc for an extra buck

Will try a game next...

[northerngames]

try the recommended imageburn program

also make sure your chip or whatever it is accepts dvd-r media and puts the wii in the correct mode to read dvd-r otherwise that is the problem it knows there is a disk there but it is not going to read it if it was not made to override that function.

[patrickl]

Indeed the fact that it didn't need a config disk was the only thing that set the Drivekey apart for me. The config/update disks for WiiKey were always horrible to get done.

You need to burn disks:
- low speed (4x or something)
- a good burner (no slimline burners)
- on good media

The last item is always up for some debate. I think it should be Verbatim disks. I had lots of bad results with all kinds of brands (including Verbatim and both  +r and -r), but I now use Samsung Pleomax 16x DVD-R and haven't had a faulty disk in ages.

[ChadTower]

I haven't run into a decent brand yet that my Wii has problems with.  Occasionally I'll run into a single disc that is a little skippy but most of them read just fine. 

ImgBurn is definitely the way to go.  I use that and it does a great job.

[northerngames]

Ritek

radio shack sells disk called gigaware and they are made by the Ritek manufacture company.

they were the recommended manufacture for gamecube and also work on the wii.

 There alot cheaper then the straight up Ritek labeled ones but in reality there the exact same disk with a different label but the material is the same and there made from the same place.

they can be caught on sale for $5.00 for 25 or $9.99 for 50 DVD-r's at most radio shacks every other week.

they also have a thick black label so the laser does not protrude right through the disk like some other brands can almost be seen right through and thats not a good thing for reading on any drive.

[Level42]

Well I used the drive in my Mac Mini (Matshita DVR-UJ486) which has never done a bad job before.
I use TDK media DVD-R.


The low speed burn is a wide-spread myth. Lots of tests indicated that faster burners actually burn better at higher speeds.

Anyway, it looks like I have other problems. My wife called me today and said the Wii was giving errors while playing (original) games........

[ViciousXUSMC]

I do not want to get involved in a debate but I have a softmoded wii and have no problems.

A few important pieces of information I picked up along the way.  The wii reads dvd-r's not dvd+r's you MAY get it to read a dvd+r but its few and far between and some say it can hurt the wii by straining it to read.  I have half of my disks burned to dvd+r HOWEVER I manually changed the bookmark type of the disk into dvd-r (some programs do this automatically)

Next is burn speed, I use verbatim lightscribe disks and not one coaster yet, I use 3.2 or 4x it is proven  that this is the optimal speed for the wii.  the actual drive in the wii is a 4x drive.  the optimal burn speed is actually dependent on your media & burner.  newer stuff is designed to burn better at a higher speed while old stuff had to be done at a low speed, but there are several characteristics to a burn, if you take them all into account on average 4x seems to be the best.

[patrickl]

The low speed burn is a wide-spread myth. Lots of tests indicated that faster burners actually burn better at higher speeds.

Better for the Wii or better when put back in that DVD writer? I sure had much more misses when I burned Wii games at max speed. Or that I could hear the Wii struggle to read it.

[knave]

The low speed burn is a wide-spread myth. Lots of tests indicated that faster burners actually burn better at higher speeds.

I know for a fact that playstation games perform better when burnt at 4x. In my day I made lots of coasters trying to burn faster.

Heck, even the stock head unit (CD player) in my car wants CD's to be burnt at 4x or it has problems. It is not a myth.

[ChadTower]

What's wrong with 1x?  I still burn most things at that speed and almost never burn a coaster for anything.

[SavannahLion]

What's wrong with 1x?  I still burn most things at that speed and almost never burn a coaster for anything.

Mostly patience. It consumes quite a bit of time burning a full blown DVD at that speed. Of course, burning a bunch of costers at 4x+ speed probably makes the whole point moot.

Ritek

radio shack sells disk called gigaware and they are made by the Ritek manufacture company.

they were the recommended manufacture for gamecube and also work on the wii.

 There alot cheaper then the straight up Ritek labeled ones but in reality there the exact same disk with a different label but the material is the same and there made from the same place.

That's interesting, I'll have to check them out. I have/had this utility (can't remember the name off the top of my head) that checks your blank DVD tags and compares them against an online database of known discs. The only thing is, I checked it against a new spindle of DVD's just recently and was disappointed to find out the "service" is no longer available?? Major suckage. I have never successfully found Ritek discs in the wild. Even those that other people claim are Riteks. I always have to end up ordering them online and paying through the nose or getting someone else in a different region buy them and paying for shipping.

What is everyone using to find that information out now?

[Level42]

Well the Wii sometimes freezes while playing original games and I can't get the config disc to load whichever way I try. The third (and last) disc I burnt was on my business laptop (which is a PC) using ImgBrn as suggested, still won't load.

I've had it with this POS. E-mailed the seller for support.....

[northerngames]

Does the device you have come with dvd-R mode?

dunno if this will help but I had came across this

By default, the Flatmod’s config menu is set to RegionFree ON, UpdateBlocker ON, Multigame ON and Autoboot OFF. These can be changed by burning and running the Config Disc. It also has a “Config Express Mode”, which uses a “preinstalled secondary temporal configuration”. This mode is accessed by hitting the eject button while the dvd drive is empty. If the Wii is open, you see a blue light activate on the modchip. The default settings for the Config Express Mode are: RegionFree ON, UpdateBlocker OFF, Multigame ON and Autoboot OFF. It is designed to allow updates to run from the disc that would otherwise be blocked. The Config Express Mode is a convenient feature, saving you from having to download and burn the config disc everytime you wanted to allow an update, though I personally prefer DriveKey’s built in Config Menu.

[Level42]

Wow, you explained that better than the entire site does

Guess what.....I mailed the seller.......told me both DIP switches should be turned OFF for Europe, while what I though it was was ON in the manual.....he said it was "pretty unclear" in the manual (no kidding !).

Tried the config discs and guess what, only the very first one that I burned on my Mac worked ! HAH !.....

Now, how the heck do I select the settings in the config menu. Wii mote doesn't seem to work with it. Not that I need to change anything (I guess) I just want to know it works. Do I understand clearly that I can now still update the wii with official Nintendo updates or not ?

I guess in what you explained you are talking about updates for the Flatmod ?

Now.....I need a backup from one of my games to test......

[ChadTower]

What you want to do is keep a loose eye on the forums and wait until you get the green light to do official updates.  It's risky updating before others have taken the chance and tested.

[Level42]

Ok

Just tried a first backup and it works fine   

If only the pictures on the manual would have been a bit clearer, that would have saved me a lot of hassle....

[patrickl]

Now, how the heck do I select the settings in the config menu. Wii mote doesn't seem to work with it. Not that I need to change anything (I guess) I just want to know it works. Do I understand clearly that I can now still update the wii with official Nintendo updates or not ?

Maybe it needs a gamecube controller? Or you can try pressing the reset button. Short presses for "next" and long presses for "select".

[Level42]

I just can't imagine why something so basic isn't in the manual...

Stupid me, I should have known: OS X can do ISO burning straight out of the box with Disc Utility.....no other software necessary.

[ChadTower]

Packaged ISO burners like that tend to default to options that aren't good for consoles.  Better off using the recommended software rather than play with 45 check boxes to figure out why your console isn't like it this time.