Black Hawk Down...um, what?

[Ummon]

I've seen people mention this movie as something they liked. Finally, I decided to check it out and see what they were talking about. I couldn't. What's the big deal?

[SNAAKE]

best war movie ever?? american troops saving random foreign country is automatically considered awesome. AND it was based on real life events. BHD on blu ray is awesome too.

you just dont understand. its about the men next to you (lol..)

[DaOld Man]

I liked it too, but I wouldnt pay big bucks to see it..

[TOK]

This is one of the few movies that had a scene that made me squirm... When they're trying to help the soldier thats bleeding to death by closing the artery in his leg.

Great movie, no desire to see it again.

[Lecithin]

I enjoy and own this movie. I'm not sure exactly what it is but something draws me into it. In all honestly I get hooked by most movies

[shardian]

Never saw it, but know the real life story.

I have seen Red Sleigh Down.

[Ginsu Victim]

Haven't seen BHD, but to me, Band of Brothers is the best ever.

[pinballwizard79]

I didnt like it either.

No plot............& no I wasnt expecting it to be The Golden Compass, I just wanted more dialogue.

[daywane]

Never saw it, but know the real life story.

I have seen Red Sleigh Down.

i must check " Red Sleigh Down" out
Thanks

[shmokes]

Yeah . . . I thought it was really lame.  It wasn't even a movie.  More like a tech demo for war special effects. 

[patrickl]

As far as the poor plot goes, I think the trouble is that they are trying to make a "victory" movie out what was basically a horrible defeat. In the end it just doesn't work and it kills the plot. But then if they just show the true story then no one is going to watch the movie either.

I thought the movie does a good job of showing the horrors of war. In most action/war movies the heroes just walk through a hail of bullets and never gets shot. Here they show the reality that these guys often take several hits.

The audio is good too. Not just the audio effects, but the music really fits with the scenes.

[massive88]

I saw it in the theaters, and I remember not liking it very much.

When my buddy who sat next to me said he liked it, I simply asked, "What was the main characters name?"

He didn't know, neither did I, and we just left the movie.  To me it just failed at telling a story, nice special effects though.

[AtomSmasher]

I thought it was quite good.  Not the best war movie ever, but very entertaining.
8/10

[orion]

I saw it and I own it. I remember when this whole thing happened, and I thought it was a shame.

[shmokes]

Not the best war movie ever . . .

Hah!  That's one way to put it. 

Off the top of my head . . . Das Boot, Full Metal Jacket, Schindler's List, Slaughter House 5, Life Is Beautiful, Platoon, Braveheart, The Pianist, Apocalypse Now, Catch-22, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, Saving Private Ryan, Forest Gump (in a manner of speaking), Lawrence of Arabia, The Great Escape, Ran, Hotel Rwanda, Letters from Iwo Jima . . .

So, another way to put it is that it's not even remotely close to being in a list of best war movies ever.  Still another way to put it is that it sucks.   

[AtomSmasher]

Not the best war movie ever . . .

Hah!  That's one way to put it. 

I was referring to the earlier quote

best war movie ever??

[SavannahLion]

Off the top of my head . . . Das Boot, Full Metal Jacket, Schindler's List, Slaughter House 5, Life Is Beautiful, Platoon, Braveheart, The Pianist, Apocalypse Now, Catch-22, 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, Saving Private Ryan, Forest Gump (in a manner of speaking), Lawrence of Arabia, The Great Escape, Ran, Hotel Rwanda, Letters from Iwo Jima . . .

So, another way to put it is that it's not even remotely close to being in a list of best war movies ever.  Still another way to put it is that it sucks.   

I haven't seen all of those movies (The Pianist?), but of the ones I've seen or know about, most of those take place before most of us were even born. There's this sort of disjoint, I guess, from most of those eras. Ask an average kid under the age of 18 about the Holocaust or Vietnam, you might get some interesting answers. I think most people like BHD because it's something that's, "so close to home." It happened within most peoples lives and it's something a lot of people can relate to.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that most people today are utter ---smurfing--- morons. I remember hearing about a woman who was so traumatized by the collapse of the Twin Towers that she tried to convince anyone who would listen that the event never happened... after watching the movie, Planet of the Apes.

Is it something I like? Meh. I saw the film on DVD. It's an OK flick, but not one I would purchase or watch again.

[knave]

I liked the film...It gives an entertaining recount of a crappy situation...

[Dartful Dodger]

The problem is it's not an action/war movie.

It's like saying Hotel Rwanda isn't even remotely close to being the best drama or as a thriller United 93 sux.

The less you care about what really happened the less you’ll like the movie.

[shmokes]

The Pianist is a film from 2002 that was nominated for best picture and won best actor, best director and best screenplay.  It won best picture and best actor at the golden globes.  You may remember one of the all-time classic Oscar moments when Adrian Brody went up to the stage to accept his award for best actor from Halle Berry and he just grabbed her and started making out with her right there on stage.  Hilarious.  Anyway that was for The Pianist and it is a fantastic film.  See it.  BTW, Roman Polanski couldn't accept his Oscar for the film cos he had a little trouble with allegedly having sex with a 13-year-old like 30-years ago.  He fled the country and has never been back.  If he'd come to America to pick up his awards he would be taken into custody the moment he stepped off the plane.  He also doesn't visit countries that are likely to extradite him to the U.S.  

[Kevin Mullins]

What's the big deal?

 

The people I knew that liked it were all military, retired military, or wished they had been in the military.

Yeah, there's a deeper meaning behind it other than just that it was a "war movie" or a "flick" as some keep describing it.

The problem is it's not an action/war movie.
It's like saying Hotel Rwanda isn't even remotely close to being the best drama or as a thriller United 93 sux.
The less you care about what really happened the less you’ll like the movie.

Thank You.

There's a huge difference between a "war movie" and something more of a documentary nature. (re-enactment if you will)
I can't believe the term "plot" has been used in this thread in reference to something like Black Hawk Down. There is no "script" in war, you don't adjust the dialogue and characters to make it more "entertaining", it is what it is.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but dang, at least distinguish the difference between a "movie" and something that actually happened.
And yes, it's generally the nature of things that have actually happened to not be very "entertaining", especially in relationship to war.

Phew.... I feel better..... gonna go watch Family Guy now.....

[patrickl]

I can't believe the term "plot" has been used in this thread in reference to something like Black Hawk Down. There is no "script" in war, you don't adjust the dialogue and characters to make it more "entertaining", it is what it is.

The movie doesn't simply tell the story like a documentary. They tried to add some form of plot. Or maybe it's just that the movie exaggerates of certain events that happened. I think they wanted to add a bit of "feel good" to the story. For instance, the hummer convoy with an immortal loon in charge or the dumb and dumber duo that gets lost and goes deaf.

[Kevin Mullins]

I kinda thought about that a bit afterwords and I can see them having added some filler and fluff to stretch it into a "movie".
But you can only do that so much before it just becomes fake and no longer tells the reality side of it.
So no, I guess it didn't turn into quite the "entertaining movie" people were looking for.

I don't mean to offend anyone, just some of the comments were starting to veer away from the fact that this particular movie is based on something that actually happened.
Those people that don't "get it".... never will. 

[shmokes]

The problem is it's not an action/war movie.

The problem is that it is an action/war movie.  And it's a bad one.  It is a dramatization of true events (aka just like pretty much every war movie ever made).  Every line of dialogue is invented by a writer.  And every line is delivered by Hollywood movie stars.  It's a Hollywood picture based on a true story.  It's just not a very good one.

[Ummon]

I saw it in the theaters, and I remember not liking it very much.

When my buddy who sat next to me said he liked it, I simply asked, "What was the main characters name?"

He didn't know, neither did I, and we just left the movie.  To me it just failed at telling a story, nice special effects though.

Exactamundo.

I can't believe the term "plot" has been used in this thread in reference to something like Black Hawk Down. There is no "script" in war, you don't adjust the dialogue and characters to make it more "entertaining", it is what it is.

The movie doesn't simply tell the story like a documentary. They tried to add some form of plot. Or maybe it's just that the movie exaggerates of certain events that happened. I think they wanted to add a bit of "feel good" to the story. For instance, the hummer convoy with an immortal loon in charge or the dumb and dumber duo that gets lost and goes deaf.

Mmmmhmmm. Yes.

That's the whole thing. It's not one or the other. It's simply a depiction of a situation that happened to be a class eleven clusterfuck.

[shmokes]

 BTW, Roman Polanski couldn't accept his Oscar for the film cos he had a little trouble with allegedly having sex with a 13-year-old like 30-years ago.  He fled the country and has never been back.

Allegedly??? He confessed to drugging and raping a 13 year old and has been convicted - done deal.  He fled when he thought the judge would send him to jail rather than let him off for time served.  

Different strokes for different folks but I found The Pianist rather tiresome.  Around the part where they threw the grandfather out the window, I was more or less done.

He was accused of, and charged with drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl.  He plead down to unlawful intercourse with a minor.  Imagine what lies ahead of you if the state has decided to try and prove to a jury that you raped a 13-year-old girl and see if you can't think of any reason aside from guilt that a person might be inclined to make a plea agreement.  I ain't saying he didn't do it.  I haven't the slightest idea.  But I suspect neither have you.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  I was born in 1978, so it's not like I actually remember any of this.  But I don't think he ever actually admitted to anything in any meaningful way.

[Dartful Dodger]

The problem is that it is an action/war movie.  And it's a bad one.  It is a dramatization of true events (aka just like pretty much every war movie ever made).  Every line of dialogue is invented by a writer.  And every line is delivered by Hollywood movie stars.  It's a Hollywood picture based on a true story.  It's just not a very good one.

If you're interested in the story and you want to see it played out you'll like these stories.

Hotel Rwanda is a drama based on true events.  One group of people kill off another group of people while another group of people ignore it.

As a story it seems ridiculous and it shouldn't have happened.

Some people want to learn from these mistakes and not let it happen again, so they liked that movie.



Most ("the good") war movies that are based on true stories follow the usual good guys are overcoming bad guys.  It's a simple formula that everyone can get behind.

Black Hawk Down is about an American president caring more for how he looks to the UN then the safety of American troops.

As a story it seems ridiculous and it shouldn't have happened.

Some people want to ignore Clinton's mistakes, so they hated the movie.

[shmokes]

 

Dartful, your argument just doesn't hold up.  Hotel Rwanda is in my list of good war movies.  What your argument boils down to is that it would be impossible to make a bad film about those attacks in Somalia.  I'm sure that when framed like that even you see how absurd that position is.

Take Pearl Harbor, for example.  Are you telling me that if a person wants to learn from those mistakes and not let that attrocity happen again he is going to enjoy Michael Bay's piece of ---Cleveland steamer--- of a movie?  That's ridiculous. 

Look at the very first entry on my list of good war movies.  Das Boot.  One of the best movies ever made.  Now notice the absence on the list of U-571.  That's no accident.  Now how can I possibly think that Das Boot is one of the best movies ever made while U-571 is lame?  They're both war movies that revolve around a particular German U-boat . . .

Maybe it's cos in spite of the interesting subject matter, the movie sucked.  Hmm . . . like Black Hawk Down.

[shardian]

Even though there isn't alot of "war" scenes, Pan's Labyrinth struck a strong chord with me on the human/civil war side of the plot.

[massive88]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but dang, at least distinguish the difference between a "movie" and something that actually happened.

So, the one that was shot in a controlled environment, using actors, scripts, special effects, and was distributed in movie theaters and on DVD/Bluray, was that one a movie or did it actually happen?

[Dartful Dodger]

Look at the very first entry on my list of good war movies.  Das Boot.  One of the best movies ever made.  Now notice the absence on the list of U-571.  That's no accident.  Now how can I possibly think that Das Boot is one of the best movies ever made while U-571 is lame?  They're both war movies that revolve around a particular German U-boat . . .

Maybe it's cos in spite of the interesting subject matter, the movie sucked.  Hmm . . . like Black Hawk Down.

A movie is good or bad is all opinion.  What I'm saying is, if you like the subject matter the movie was based on, you'll like the movie.

It's funny you mentioned Das Boot.  I was in 6th grade when I saw that movie.  My friend’s mother who was a child in Germany during WWII rented that movie for us to watch because she saw it multiple times in the theater and didn’t think the R rating should stop us from watching it.  My friend had a Beta deck and it was the only movie I ever saw on Beta... Why is this important, because I don’t remember anything about that movie all I remember is it was painfully slow to watch and it was on Beta.

Das boot was in theaters when World War II survivors were going to movies. So the movie had more meaning to the audience.  Since it was a big deal when it first came out that influences how people look at it today.


Just look at the break down of people who agree that Black Hawk Down was a bad movie.  They're either too young to care about what happened, or they don't want to know.

It’s all relative to how you feel about the subject matter.

[TOK]

A movie is good or bad is all opinion.  What I'm saying is, if you like the subject matter the movie was based on, you'll like the movie.

He just gave you a point that disproved your comment... Das Boot and U571 are about the same subject, one done well, one done poorly.  I enjoy WWI and WWII history, but Pearl Harbor and Flyboys were both absolute crap.

If anything, knowing/liking the subject matter makes a lot of people more critical of movies. I saw a history fanatic logically pic Saving Private Ryan apart.

[massive88]

I have also seen movies about boobies that I liked, and others that I didn't, and it doesn't get more basic of a pro/con then boobies.

Subject matter is only a small part of making a good movie, or is every remake of a movie the exact same "goodness" as the original?  I mean, the subject matter is the same.

The position that those who didn't like the movie are too young or naive to take the subject matter seriously enough is ridiculous, it wasn't even a documentary.

[Dartful Dodger]

He just gave you a point that disproved your comment...

I pointed out that it was timing and relevance that made one movie better than the other.

It's also been pointed out by others that good and bad are just opinions.

It's just funny that the people who tend to hate Black Hawk Down, love Clinton.  Everyone else has an honest opinion about it.

I have also seen movies about boobies that I liked, and others that I didn't...

Wanna know how I know you're g@y?

   - There're boobie movies that you didn't like.

[ChadTower]

Wanna know how I know you're g@y?

   - There're boobie movies that you didn't like.

I saw one once where the youngest woman was like 85.  They ain't all good...

[massive88]

[ They ain't all good...

Not everything can be as good as Zombie Strippers.

[shardian]

I saw one once where the youngest woman was like 85.  They ain't all good...

I think I know what movie you are speaking of (Calendar Girls), and most moderately intelligent men knew NOT to watch that. 

[Dartful Dodger]

Not everything can be as good as Zombie Strippers.

I just added it to my DVD queue and moved it up to position #1.

[massive88]

I just added it to my DVD queue and moved it up to position #1.

We watched that the night before I had an arcade tournament, and it was pretty unanimously a favorite.

[SNAAKE]

lol tough crowd here. what do you really expect from movies? BHD is easily one of the best war movie if not the best. no reason to "walk out" on it.

PS: zombie stripper was surprisingly funny(and random).

[shmokes]

It's just funny that the people who tend to hate Black Hawk Down, love Clinton. 

Dartful, I know that logic isn't really your strong suit, but think really hard.  Think really really hard.  If this is true then what is the flip-side of the coin that must also be true.  Oh . . . right . . . ---Cleveland steamer--- . . . that means people who tend to like Black Hawk Down hate Clinton.  Is that what you're saying?  You'll like any movie so long as it paints Clinton in a bad light?

Most hilarious is that the thought never even occurred to me before Dartful brought it up.  It's funny too, cos I've made clear about a bazillion times that I think Michael Moore is an idiot and I dislike his movies (Actually, I thought Bowling For Columbine was good aside from the unethical ---Cleveland steamer--- pulled on Heston, and the only other one I saw was F-911, which I thought was a piece of ---Cleveland steamer---).  I loved Frasier, which was a TV show with the raison d'etre being to make fun of the elitism and hypocrisy of the far left.  At any rate, if your comments are showing any irrational political bias coloring a review of BHD, it is your own.

By the way, if it's just timing and relevancy, how did Schindler's List get on my list?  How about 30 Seconds Over Tokyo, which is about America's response to the Pearl Harbor attacks?  Good lord, how did Braveheart and Ran get on my list?  Oh yeah, and how do so many Vietnam War movies make it into my list?  The Vietnam war doesn't exactly leave the beloved JFK or Lyndon B. Johnson smelling like roses now, does it?

LMAO . . . I'm starting to think that maybe Black Hawk Down just sucks.

[ChadTower]

Not everything can be as good as Zombie Strippers.

I just added it to my DVD queue and moved it up to position #1.

Take a look at the top two billed people.  How can you go wrong with Jenna Jameson and Robert Englund?  The two probably make up a double digit percentage of my total movie watching time even without Zombie Strippers!

[patrickl]

LMAO . . . I'm starting to think that maybe Black Hawk Down just sucks.

No it doesn't. You just love Clinton.

[ChadTower]

LMAO . . . I'm starting to think that maybe Black Hawk Down just sucks.

No it doesn't. You just love Clinton.

I'm still trying to figure out who the beloved Lyndon B Johnson is!

[Dartful Dodger]

Take a look at the top two billed people.  How can you go wrong with Jenna Jameson and Robert Englund?  The two probably make up a double digit percentage of my total movie watching time even without Zombie Strippers!

Nuts!  I didn't read anything past the title and I thought that was Pamela Anderson on the cover.


Every once in a while I log on to NetFlix with my friends and/or girlfriend, so now I'll have to add some documentaries and foreign films to my queue before the soft-core titles start showing up on my movies you'll love page.

On a positive note, I'll have Zombie Strippers by Saturday.

[Ummon]

When BHD real events were happening, I was almost out of the service. So, no, I don't think so. In fact, it seems to appeal to those who were too young to be in, but were inundated with it via the media and anything else social and familial, who think it's something worthwhile.

Further, the relevance comment is the subjective part. There's an interesting aspect about 'history'. It tells you about where you came from (to some degree anyway) and shows you some things you might do, and others you might not. Not that I think it's totally necessary, mind. There are tools that transcend culture....but one must be inclined to discover them....and most are not. Regardless, if one is TELLING A STORY, then there's a certain obligation to the form....or, rather, certain conditions by which one does or can.

[Dartful Dodger]

When BHD real events were happening, I was almost out of the service. So, no, I don't think so. In fact, it seems to appeal to those who were too young to be in, but were inundated with it via the media and anything else social and familial, who think it's something worthwhile.

Further, the relevance comment is the subjective part.

I think the subjective part is a person's opinion of the overall the movie.

The relevance just guides their opinion.

Maybe it appeals to those who were too young to understand it, because they were just watching it for the entertainment value.

I don't think the movie mentions the president by name, so to them it's like any other war movie where a fictional president gets caught up in the politics of a situation and soldiers are left to fend for themselves.

[patrickl]

What does Clinton have to do with the movie? I saw a documentary about a raid on Faluja and it was exactly the same type of stuff. Soldiers are always fending for themselves.

Lol it really does sound like the only reason you like the movie is because you hate Clinton. Why though? You blame him for that helicopter being shot down? Or for Bush sr sending US troops to Somalia? Or do you blame Clinton for Bush listenening to the UN to send in troops? Or do you blame Clinton for trying to take out Aideed (to try and end the conflict).

The only serious blame I can come up with is that the retreat made the US look weak, but that has no bearing on "Black Hawk Down". It's a result that came afterwards. I'd say it makes sense for Clinton to saying "---fudgesicle--- this! Let the Somali's rot in their own misery if they don't want our help" after that incident. Killing a thousand Somali in an effort to resuce the downed airmen had made accepting US help impossible anyway.

[TOK]

What does Clinton have to do with the movie? I saw a documentary about a raid on Faluja and it was exactly the same type of stuff. Soldiers are always fending for themselves.

Lol it really does sound like the only reason you like the movie is because you hate Clinton. Why though? You blame him for that helicopter being shot down? Or for Bush sr sending US troops to Somalia? Or do you blame Clinton for Bush listenening to the UN to send in troops? Or do you blame Clinton for trying to take out Aideed (to try and end the conflict).

The only serious blame I can come up with is that the retreat made the US look weak, but that has no bearing on "Black Hawk Down". It's a result that came afterwards. I'd say it makes sense for Clinton to saying "---fudgesicle--- this! Let the Somali's rot in their own misery if they don't want our help" after that incident. Killing a thousand Somali in an effort to resuce the downed airmen had made accepting US help impossible anyway.

Take this crap to P&R.

[shmokes]

I'm still trying to figure out who the beloved Lyndon B Johnson is!

Obviously it goes without saying that the adjective applied only to JFK   

[hypernova]

He shocked Santa's balls.