V-Frequency 47-90Hz Question

[Visitor Q]

I have a question about my BIOS booting on a arcade monitor that supports 47-90Hz, does that mean as long as my video card is sat somewhere between 47-90Hz I do not  run the risk of damage to the monitor? The monitor claims that it supports 1024X768 native, I am planning on running my video card at 800X600 at 60Hz, does this sound ok? Do I need to be concerned about anything else as far as the screen switching on and off during the boot into windows? I noticed that when my PC boots, it flips res. or flashes, do I need to worry about this damaging the monitor in anyway?

Thanks.

Example of current boot to OS.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHui-Ize5wc[/youtube]

[qrz]

the fast and furious series arcade units do the same upon boot up .
and not liking the frequently failing flash drives  -

constructing a ~2 minute monitor power delay would eliminate that issue .
however , you may not see any of the boot errors - should they occur

[Visitor Q]

I just want to make sure I am not doing my monitor any harm when the time comes. Does it hurt and arcade monitor to have it flash like my system does when it boots?

How can power delay the monitor?

[MonMotha]

Mode switches on multisync monitors are a somewhat hairy event (lots of nasty electrical transients involved), but occasional switching (once per startup, for example) is normally something they are designed to withstand.  Frequent switching (e.g. every time you go between a game and a shell such as a frontend or desktop) is bad and has been known to damage even well built monitors with time.

Avoiding the on-the-fly switch entirely is great, though.  There are ready-made "timer relay" solutions that can do this for you by delaying startup.  Some even have standard wall plugs.  Check your local industrial automation racket or just search online for "timer relay" and similar search terms.  It's also possible to build something that only passes desired modes to a monitor, but that's probably beyond the scope of most hobbyists.

[Visitor Q]

So you are saying that it is even bad for the monitor going from the front end into Mame and then back out again? Really no way to avoid that... 

Could you post a link of a timer delay that uses a wall outlet that you would recommend?

ps. This is the monitor I will be using.

http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271700.htm

I would like to treat my stuff the best I can, I don't mind delaying that start up of the monitor until I get into windows as I can alway hook up another monitor for trouble shooting if needed. My PC takes about 1 minuite to log into windows so a 2 minute delay would be plenty.

[MonMotha]

So you are saying that it is even bad for the monitor going from the front end into Mame and then back out again? Really no way to avoid that... 

That is far worse than the once-per-boot mode switch you talked about, especially since it's a pretty wide swing on fh if you're going CGA-SVGA and back.  I realize people love multisyncs for that because they can run their MAME frontend high res and the game native, but the monitor hates it.  That seems to be one of the most common ways newer multisync monitors die.  It's just not something most monitors are designed for.

Could you post a link of a timer delay that uses a wall outlet that you would recommend?

I didn't have any specifics in mind.  Lots of options though.  Search "timer relay" or "time delay relay".  http://www.surplussales.com/relays/RETimeD-2.html has some possiblities.

ps. This is the monitor I will be using.

http://www.happcontrols.com/monitors/49271700.htm

You know that won't do standard res (CGA) at all, right?  VGA-XGA only.

I would like to treat my stuff the best I can, I don't mind delaying that start up of the monitor until I get into windows as I can alway hook up another monitor for trouble shooting if needed. My PC takes about 1 minuite to log into windows so a 2 minute delay would be plenty.

A time delay relay will accomplish that, but won't do anything about switching between resolutions when you go into/out of a game and a MAME frontend.  Depending on the monitor design, it can help to feed it no signal for a short duration (a few seconds) in between, or it might not.  Depends on how the monitor handles turn-on and sync rate changes.

[Visitor Q]

So should I use a timer delay then or no? The link you set me, I don't see any that use AC Power. If you think the monitor will not be affected by the boot, maybe this should not concern me...

If you mean do I  know I will not be able to do native res, yes I know this.

The link to the monitor that I sent you, would you recommend running it at 60Hz 800X600?

[ahofle]

Why don't you just run everything (games + windows) at 1024x768 if you are worried about constant resolution switching?  Since you aren't bothering with true native resolutions, you should go for the highest resolution possible IMO, and your monitor is 1024x768.

I realize people love multisyncs for that because they can run their MAME frontend high res and the game native, but the monitor hates it.  That seems to be one of the most common ways newer multisync monitors die.  It's just not something most monitors are designed for.

I guess I don't understand this at all.  Clearly a digital multisync is designed to switch resolutions easier.  I have been using PC 'multisync' CRT monitors for YEARS and I've never had ANY problems with switching resolutions killing the monitor (and I do it ALL THE TIME when gaming, not to mention every time it boots up going from VGA to desktop resolution).  Even cheap crappy PC CRT monitors seem to last forever.  Why is it such a big issue at this point to support simple resolution switching on multisync arcade monitors?  

[MonMotha]

Mode switches are electrically "nasty".  When the source timings (the biggest deal is usually horizontal frequency, but number of total lines and vertical frequency can cause problems, too) change, there are lots of electrical transients as everything adjusts and settles to handle the new signal.  These transients can be pretty harsh (big voltages, for example).  The situation is usually worse the further "apart" the two modes are: e.g. switching from CGA to SVGA and back is usually worse than VGA to SVGA and back.

Your cheap crappy CRT PC monitors last forever because you're not doing a lot with them.  You turn it on, it displays stuff, maybe you switch resolutions a few times to play games, and, likely several hours later, you turn it off.  If you switched between VGA and SXGA on them every few minutes (which is basically what some people do when using a multisync arcade monitor for MAME gaming), they'd probably die within a year or possibly even sooner.

I'm not trying to say that mode switches will kill your monitor instantly.  Lots of people do it for years and never have a problem.  However, it does seem to be one of the more common things leading up to failure on newer multisyncs when used in MAME applications, and the OP seemed to be concerned about this very problem.  There is some cause for concern, but it's nothing to go nuts over.  Use the machine however you please if you don't feel any concern.

[ahofle]

Interesting.  I guess I was considering the 4-5 mode changes per day a PC CRT over a decade (I have yet to have one fail actually) or so to still be far more than the number of mode switches on a typical casual user's multisync arcade monitor which seems to die after a couple years as you said.  I would also venture to guess that your average PC gets FAR more usage on average than MAME cabinets (which is pretty much the only use for these monitors).

[Jack Burton]

Hmm, I suppose I need to figure out a way for my frontend to run in 320x240. That should at least minimize the damage right?

What would be really cool is if I could somehow set up advancemame and advancemenu to just keep the frontend in the same resolution as the last game used, that way the number of resolution changes is kept to a minimum.

[MonMotha]

OK.  Just. Don't. Worry. About. It.

People do this all the time, and very, very few have any issues.  It is known to be "hard" on the monitor, but don't get all uptight about it.  However, if you feel the need, yes, run your frontend at CGA (640x480 interlaced will work, as will 320x240 progressive) so that you don't have to switch when going into (at least most) games.

[richms]

The problem is that for the brief time that the monitor is running the wrong timeings thru the wrong circuitry (before the relay click) it is in effect driving a 31kHz signal into a 15kHz monitor or similar. Eventually that will make it go pop.

Also as the PLLs for the sweep re-settle they are possibly overloading part of the sweep circuitry. Monitors are under engineered inelegant solutions from what I have seen.

[Ummon]

Following MM: buy your stuff and use it. Don't worry about it going. If it does, you get something else - maybe an LCD if you're of such a mind.

Although, Vis Q, that you're asking the question in terms of that refresh range and those resolutions says to me you don't understand scanrates an all.

[Visitor Q]

Following MM: buy your stuff and use it. Don't worry about it going. If it does, you get something else - maybe an LCD if you're of such a mind.

Although, Vis Q, that you're asking the question in terms of that refresh range and those resolutions says to me you don't understand scanrates an all.

Cool... You want my PayPal now so you can shoot me the $500 when it craps out, oh yeah... That;s without shipping. All good if you are made of money but I'm not.

LOL! Maybe you are right cause your post is the first post in this thread I don't understand.

[Ummon]

Maybe you should read back over it, read back over your initial post, then read back over mine again?

[isucamper]

I've got a WG D9800, and I'm running Soft15-Khz for my games and my front end running at 640x480 (31khz). 

I too was concerned about all the resolution switching so I emailed the technical support guy at WG.  I specifically asked about switching from VGA to CGA and back again 15-30 times a night.  Here's his reply.

Hello Noah.

   Talking to the Engineering Staff about this switching, if it would cause premature breakdown, they said it should not have any effect on the longevity of this monitor.

I actually find this hard to believe, but at this point, I've got no reason to think I'm going to kill my monitor by doing this.