The best of the "shoot-em up" games (Xevious, Scramble)

[jukingeo]

Hello,

I was browsing through the MAWS website the other day and I noticed that in the post 1985 era, that a tremendous amount of vertical and horizontal "shoot 'em up" games were released.   While this is not my favorite arcade game genre (see why below), I am curious I am curious as to what is the best of the best of this bewildering bunch of games (outside of what I currently know about in terms of the older (pre 1985) games.

I am curious to know what you feel is the all around best shoot 'em up game.   Pick your top three favorite Horizontal Style shooters (Scramble, R-Type, Salamander), and your top three favorite vertical shooters (Xevious, 1941).

What I am interested in is an all around good game.  NOT THE HARDEST!  In fact just the opposite.  The truth is I am not very good at these games and some of them have so many projectiles flying across the screen it is hard to define them from the power ups!  I am definitely NOT interested in those games.  The game has to be playable by newbies and not just have an easy first wave and then the game get near impossible to play (for the average Joe).  Overall, I am looking for good graphics, good game play, some really nice bosses.   (I particularly like "shown damage" on the bosses when they take a good hit, not just a an explosion or "pop").   Power ups and add ons are cool too. 

I am more interested in the futuristic/bio-mechanical games over the "war plane" based games.

I am mostly looking at newer games (R-Type, Salamander), since I am already familiar with the older types.  However, if you feel Xevious is your favorite, by all means list it.

I know that this would have been great to set up as a poll, but since there are so many games like this our there, it would be a huge list.  However, I am sure there are a few that stand out from the pack and that is what I am interested in seeing.

Thanx,

Geo

[Blanka]

Horizontal is unplayable for me. I really hate horizontal. So no top three for that. Well OK, one then. Darius II for the enormous widescreen and super funky tune!

Vertical:
1944 (best of the series, with energy bar instead of instant death and lots of steroids), 19XX is close second.
Tiger Heli (nostalgia, the first shoot m up I played)
Gunlock
Armed Formation

[Ken Layton]

Romstar "Sky Shark" (called "Flying Shark" in some areas).

[FrizzleFried]

Vertical games on a vertical monitor I like the Striker series... and the 19xx series... and the Raiden DX series...

Vertical games on a horizontal monitor I like Striker... I like Mars Mission... etc...

Horizontal scrollers I like Progear... and Gradius... and one or two others.

[fronty]

.

[Ummon]

Space Harrier is an third-person shooter. I never liked it, either.

Blanka, I think the power bar thing on airplane verts started with 1943. This is probably my all-time favorite vert shooter from the latter 80s.

My favorite VS from the 90s, that I know of, is Strikers1945.

Horizontal.....can't think of one. I don't play 'em much, as I don't prefer the perspective. Oh, wait, I suppose Sidearms:Hyperdyne.

j, remember, Xevious is from '82, and Scramble '81.

[Grasshopper]

Well OK, one then. Darius II for the enormous widescreen and super funky tune!

I also like the original Darius for the same reasons. The music is superb. It's a very underrated shoot 'em up IMHO. Unfortunately, thanks to the triple monitor setup, it's very difficult to emulate in a satisfactory way.

[Xiaou2]

 The best Shooter IMOP, is  Thunderforce II.

 Its listed as not working in mame.. however, it appears to be playable now.


 Thunderforce II  was originally made on the Japanese computer system  X68000.
It was later ported to the Sega Genesis / Mega Drive.

 The Sega Genesis had an arcade unit that used timers on it.. and TFII was one of the games selectable,
which is why its in mame.

 The Sega port is much more limited.  Less layers of graphics. Less colors. Less details. Missing a few
game levels...  etc.   Still, the games plays great, and its a very good port.


 Why is TFII the Best?


 Many shooters have glaring problems:

 1) lose powerups at a high level & your too weak to survive anymore.

 2) Too many bullets on screen. Detracts from looks & ruins gameplay
 
 3) Superbombs. Too many = No need to have skill to progress.

 4) Unlimited Continues = No need for skill to progress.

 5) Restart at beginning of level.  Very frustrating, Esp without enough power to fight well..

 6) Game is a puzzle.  Only one pathway to be able to progress. Pure memorization only = poor gameplay.


 TFII solves these issues:


 1) Basic powerup level is sufficient for any level, yet game is still very challenging.

 2) Only bosses toss huge amount of bullets out. Rest of game is not supersaturated.

 3) No Superbombs!

 4) Limited number of continues possible. 

  On easy level, more continues... but game only play till 5th level. Rest are locked.
  On hard level, less continues..  yet allows completion of game.
  I believe there was also a med level with a similar restriction on levels that were available.

 5) No level restarts. If you crash.. the screen keeps scrolling & you re-appear in a moments time.
However, if you are blowing thru too many lives per a single level.. you are never going to be able to
defeat the game.

 Many games shut the player down immediately, so they could never experience the mid to higher levels without being an absolute expert.  This discourages, and makes the play a lot less fun.  In TFII, you can
get pretty far into the game as a beginner.. have a lot of fun.. yet wont get anywhere near the end
until you get good enough to be able to lose less lives per each level.

  6) Not much of a puzzle game. Can fly by the seat of your pants, and do well enough.


 The main complaint about TFII was the Top view levels.  They are a little clunky in control... and also,
most people didnt realize that the weapons in top view shots both forwards, and drops bombs on the
ground targets.  However, the bombs are close range only... so, even tho it looked like you were shooting
the ground turrets... your bombs were too far away to reach them.   The top view is also a bit of a maze, and
you can easily get lost in them.

 However, the Horizontal sections are some of the most awesome levels Ive ever played.
 
 You can skip many of the beginner levels by pressing   "A+B+C+Start"  at the Title screen, to accress
the hidden menu options.

 
 Listen to the music sections as well.  They are some of the best tunes Ive heard in a shooter.  Very
futuristic and alien sounding. 


 Sadly, TF3 and up dont compare to TF2.   TF3 took me a day to beat... where as TFII took me like
a year of off and on play... and was much more enjoyable.   The graphics on 3 were mostly too low res and
blandly repeated.  The music quality was lower (highly compressed & or lower sample speed), and
a lot less inspiring.  The powerups system was ruined... as they made your bullets too large, and spread
out all over, littering the screen.  TF4 was too hard.. and equally uninspiring, much like 3.   

 TF3 and up tried to use more organic look to them.. however, because of the Genesis's very limited color
palette... organic stuff looked horrible.


 Ive beaten the game starting from level 5.   One day Ill master the top view sections, and try
to beat the entire game from level 1.    I also have to try to beat the much harder X68000 version,
now that Ive finally got hold of it 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tdii-L1zTw&feature=related[/youtube]

[Ummon]

Really static ship maneuverability, though, much like Bosconian though at least here you can fly eight ways. Of course, in those top-view screens it's obvious you'd die right quick, and repeatedly if you had smooth 8-way movement. Definitely the 'restart at the beginning of the level' (or at least not right where you died) of most other H scrollers is lame. It's interesting that Capcom capitalized on this - and yet on Sidearms:Hyperdyne, they didn't do it.

[Xiaou2]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8BL10McKrk&feature=related[/youtube]

In case people get the wrong picture, and dont wait to see the side view stages,
heres level 2 of TFII  for genesis.

 The top view parts arent too bad actually.  Just not great like the sideview.
But they do add to the game.

 Not having speed control or realistic means of movement does create some
issues.  Static camera locked to the ship also feels a bit wrong.  Now Im interested in re-designing the top view stage control system    hehe  >.<

[SavannahLion]

I was never big on "modern" shooters in the arcades. When the local Tempest machine died, and I got snubbed with Tail Gunner, I just lost interest. I still played the console versions though.

+ Silpheed for the SegaCD. The system might have flopped but this game really showcased it.

I loved Silpheed for the SegaCD. It's technically a vertical, but it plays like it's on rails so it's not for everyone. Worth a looksee though.

Another nice game I like quite a bit is Keio Flying Squadron. It's not a particularly standout shooter, but eBay listings are going for at least $200 or more for complete packages. I bought mine without the manual many years ago on the aftermarket and I still paid a fetching price.

[jukingeo]

Horizontal is unplayable for me. I really hate horizontal. So no top three for that. Well OK, one then. Darius II for the enormous widescreen and super funky tune!

Yeah, I have seen that one in arcades.   I " tried" R-Type many times but sometimes the display gets "very busy", and it is hard to determine what is a power up through all the "flack".  Many times I end up running right straight into "da boomer" and poof! 

Vertical:
1944 (best of the series, with energy bar instead of instant death and lots of steroids), 19XX is close second.
Tiger Heli (nostalgia, the first shoot m up I played)
Gunlock
Armed Formation

1944-Energy bar...huh?  I guess I will have to look into that one.  I have 1941 & 43.  Mostly my guests play those.  I have Tiger Heli as well.  This one I do like, even though I am not good at it.  Many of the newer heli-shooters I don't particularly care for.   I do like heli "sims" though.

Not necessarily MAME-based but here are my favs:

+ Irem's Dragon Breed. Ride a serpent-like dragon (that's your ship). Collect power ups that change your dragon's abilities. A circle motion of the joystick makes the dragon curl up in a cocoon that protects the player. Part of the challenge is figuring out how to mix your dragon's offensive and defensive abilities. The game can be finished with one quarter.

+ Tiger Heli. This game is 8bit hard, but worth checking out at least once.

+ Silk Worm. Control either a chopper or a jeep. Not the best (kind of repetitive) but supports 2 player coop.

+ Not sure if this qualifies, but you might want to check out Sega's Space Harrier.

LOL, I am trying out Dragon Breed right now.  This looks to be a cool game and I might delve into it deeper.   As I said above, I have Tiger Heli, but I am not any good at it.  I tried Silk Worm the other day for a few rounds, and I got tired of it really fast.   

I AM very familiar with Space Harrier.  I have that one too.   I don't consider it a horizontal or vertical shooter, but a 3rd person pers shooter.   I always been a fan of the Sega games though: Outrun, Hang on, Turbo, etc.

Space Harrier is an third-person shooter. I never liked it, either.

j, remember, Xevious is from '82, and Scramble '81.

Well, I guess not everyone likes SH.   I will say it isn't my FAVORITE, but I like to play it.  Yes, I do know when Xevious and Scramble came out.  I was around back then (giving away my age here).  Most of those early games were much more interesting.   The newer games seem to follow a constant and "tired" formula.   Almost all the games you find in the arcades today are vert/horiz shooters, gun games, fighter games, or driving games.   It seems there was MUCH more variety in game play "back in the day".

The best Shooter IMOP, is  Thunderforce II.

 Its listed as not working in mame.. however, it appears to be playable now.

Which is it?  MAWS lists only Thunder Force II for the Mega touch/Sega system.  As you pointed out, I don't care for the megatouch games because they are not the true game.  MAWS also lists Thunderforce (no space) AC.  Is that it?

Why is TFII the Best?


 Many shooters have glaring problems:

 1) lose powerups at a high level & your too weak to survive anymore.

 2) Too many bullets on screen. Detracts from looks & ruins gameplay
 
 3) Superbombs. Too many = No need to have skill to progress.

 4) Unlimited Continues = No need for skill to progress.

 5) Restart at beginning of level.  Very frustrating, Esp without enough power to fight well..

 6) Game is a puzzle.  Only one pathway to be able to progress. Pure memorization only = poor gameplay.

Agreed, many of the reasons you outline I have noticed with many games.  For instance, I am playing Dragon Breed now and 1 & 5 are VERY big annoyances.  If you are in the middle of battling a boss and you "lose it", you have to start the stage over.  This is one of the main reason I was turned off to horiz/vert shooters.

Games like the 19xx series have a tendency to also have 2&3 being major problems. 


 

Many games shut the player down immediately, so they could never experience the mid to higher levels without being an absolute expert.  This discourages, and makes the play a lot less fun.

Bingo!  It is hard to get a "good game".  Unlike the older games like Pac Man, Space Invaders, or Asteroids, you can get a good day or a bad day.  Some days you just get "on a roll" and can get a good score and progress far in the game (not that there is too much to go with the older games!).

With these horiz/vert shooters, you just HAVE to be good at them. 


 

In TFII, you can
get pretty far into the game as a beginner.. have a lot of fun.. yet wont get anywhere near the end
until you get good enough to be able to lose less lives per each level.

   The main complaint about TFII was the Top view levels. 
you can easily get lost in them.

 However, the Horizontal sections are some of the most awesome levels Ive ever played.
 

So the game is then both a horiz AND a vert shooter?   I have seen this before on another game.  Forgot the name though.

...I checked out the video and it looks pretty cool.  The horizontal play looks by far better than the vertical play though.  I find those things spinning around your ship annoying in the vertical mode. Graphics are OK, but the screen IS far less cluttered.   However, the end boss just all of a sudden just showed all of it's damage near the end of the fight.  I like to see it when you slowly chip away at the boss and see the damage take its toll.

Anyway, thanx for the detailed insight on the game.  I will check it out, if I can find the right version.

I was never big on "modern" shooters in the arcades. When the local Tempest machine died, and I got snubbed with Tail Gunner, I just lost interest. I still played the console versions though.

Yeah, I too am mostly a "retro" gamer.  However, it is funny you mention Tempest.  I didn't like this game when it first game out.  But I developed an "aquired" taste for it later on.  I have it now, of course.

Anyway, thanx for the input guys!

Geo

[Xiaou2]

Not  "Mega-Touch".   Its   "Mega-Tech".   BIG Difference.

 Mega Tech was the Sega arcade machine, that had modified Sega Genesis hardware inside of it.   The Mega Tech operated on a timer.   The more quarters you added, the more time you got to play on it.

 You can play it in Mame, (Select the Tab key and turn off the 2nd display screen)...or more easily, you can play it on any Genesis emulator.

(or the x68000 emulator if you have the patience to set it up properly,
and dont mind the extra difficulty)


 Thunderforce AC,  was the Arcade port of Thunderforce III.  Which was
pathetic compared to TFII Imop.  TFII is a much better game in every way.
I beat TF3 in a day (and Im no shooter king. Only an average player at most
games).  Took me over a year of off and on play to defeat TFII...
And I still love playing it to this very day.

 The Mame Rom name for TFII = mt_tfor2. 
 Mame Game name =  Thunder Force II MD

[jukingeo]

Not  "Mega-Touch".   Its   "Mega-Tech".   BIG Difference.

 Mega Tech was the Sega arcade machine, that had modified Sega Genesis hardware inside of it.   The Mega Tech operated on a timer.   The more quarters you added, the more time you got to play on it.

Oops!  My bad.  Mega-Tech was what I meant.  Yeah, I know that it was a system similar to that of the NES Playchoice (but made by Sega).    I didn't care for these game systems.  Since they are a Genesis/NES respectively, you are just better off running the console game on an emulator.

Thunderforce AC,  was the Arcade port of Thunderforce III.  Which was
pathetic compared to TFII Imop. 

Ouch! That is harsh.   

 

TFII is a much better game in every way.
I beat TF3 in a day (and Im no shooter king. Only an average player at most
games).  Took me over a year of off and on play to defeat TFII...
And I still love playing it to this very day.

 The Mame Rom name for TFII = mt_tfor2. 
 Mame Game name =  Thunder Force II MD

Ok, thanx for the tip.   

Geo

[Ummon]

1944-Energy bar...huh?  I guess I will have to look into that one.  I have 1941 & 43. 

Notice that 1943 also has energy bars for each player, instead of number of planes left.

[ahofle]

My favorites:

Horizontal:
Dragon Breed
R-Type Leo
Mag Max
Prehistoric Isle in 1930
Strike Force (defender sequel, perhaps not a true horizontal shooter, but AWESOME game)
Sky Kid
Viewpoint

Vertical:
Juno First (not quite a true shooter either, but too good not to list )
DonPachi/DoDonpachi
Sky Shark
Raiden
Ajax (hard game though)
Minefield/Rescue