Using a TV instead of a computer monitor questions

[cmoses]

I am planning my second project and think that I will go with a larger cabinet and use a TV for the display instead of a computer monitor.  I had a couple of questions I was hoping to get some answers on.

I have a NVidia graphics card that has a converter cable that gives me component output so I will be looking for a non wide screen TV with component in.  Will the resolution capabilities of the TV determine what resolutions I can use?  If it has 480i or 480 P, then I assume I can do 640x480 without any problems.  What about 720P and 1080 resolutions?  Do those translate to 1024x768 and 1280x1024?

I will be looking at 25" or 27" depending on the cabinet.  I am guessing most of those will not have a computer monitor input, so that is why I am thinking that the component will give me the best picture.

Any information that can be provided will be appreciated. 

[ahofle]

I was just at Best Buy the other day and they had a giant stack of new 24" standard def 4:3 CRT TVs with component connections.  I think they were under $200 too.  Seems like a pretty good MAME cabinet display candidate if it powers back on automatically and remembers the last input when plugged back in.

[Ummon]

I was just at Best Buy the other day and they had a giant stack of new 24" standard def 4:3 CRT TVs with component connections.  I think they were under $200 too.  Seems like a pretty good MAME cabinet display candidate if it powers back on automatically and remembers the last input when plugged back in.

Maybe these. Even the 20-inchers have component. The reviews for each are little curious, though.

I have a NVidia graphics card that has a converter cable that gives me component output so I will be looking for a non wide screen TV with component in.  Will the resolution capabilities of the TV determine what resolutions I can use?

By definition, yes.

If it has 480i or 480 P, then I assume I can do 640x480 without any problems.

SD TVs only do 480i.

What about 720P and 1080 resolutions?  Do those translate to 1024x768 and 1280x1024?
 

No. The first one is something like 1370x720 and the latter is something like 19--x1080. Look in the resolutions chart, think big W, they're in there; and the information on the unit will indicate it, too.

[cmoses]

Thanks for the information.  I am probably going to be looking on Craigslist for someone looking to dump there 25" or 27" TV.  Will be looking for one with component or computer input.  Hoping to find one that was "HD Ready" so that it will have some higher resolution capabilities.

They must be able to do them because some of the videos and pictures I have seen in some of the projects look very clear and sharp and better than 640 x 480 resolution. 

[Blanka]

Philips has some full HD 1080P TV's in 4:3 aspect ratio. Maybe that is something. They are quite flexible with resolutions.

[LLUncoolJ]

Craigslist is a good bet if you have time and are just starting to gather components. I bought a 27" Toshiba flat CRT for $100 on there. I have had some issues I have yet to resolve with the resolution. I just switched out my video card and I plan to switch from S-Video to component as soon as my adapter arrives. One thing I have learned is that you will not get great resolution from a CRT Television. That being said, it is fine for MAME. I wouldn't want to be working in Windows with mine, even with the font jacked up.

Another thing to consider is that a 27" is an extremely tight fit in even a large cabinet. I have an NFL Blitz 99 and I have about an inch total to spare horizontally. I think the width of my cabinet is 26" (inside sides). I had looked at a Soul Edge cabinet that was 25" and I'm glad I didn't take a gamble on it.

[cmoses]

Yes I am looking primarily on Craigslist.  Hoping to find someone that has just upgraded to a flat panel wide screen and is looking to dump their old TV.

LLUncoolJ,

Is your 27" still in the case, or did you de-case it?  I am looking at a Mortal Kombat II cabinet.  I know it had a 25" monitor originally in it.  I think the cabinet has about 25" - 26" available from side to side inside.  I think that will accommodate a 27" TV if the speakers are not on the sides.

Do you run only MAME on yours or other emulators as well?  I would like to also run, VPinball on it and not sure how it will look. 

[LLUncoolJ]

Mine is de-cased. It's not as hard to do as it looked. You need a wrench or socket set, screw driver, wire cutters, and a Saw-Zall comes in handy. The Soul Edge cabinet I looked at was 24.5" and not wide enough. You will need probably 25.5" at the bare minimum. That is assuming you go with a 27" TV...they are a lot easier to find. When you de-case it, there will be a mounting bracket in each corner. You will probably need to modify the brackets in your cabinet. Either re-drill them or as I did, add a piece of metal with a hole drilled in both ends and bolt one end to the TV bracket and the other to the cabinet brackets. You will definitely want to de-case it. Make sure you have someone help you when you go to mount it. I laid my cabinet down on it's back and dropped the tv straight in.

I haven't been able to get MaLa to cooperate with other emulators yet. I have only tried with Daphne so far, but I'd like to get Pinball going too. I'll probably stay away from the console emulators...trying to keep it arcade oriented.

[richms]

I have had a play with 2 1080i capable 4:3 CRT tvs, and both have only supported 16:9 display when getting 1080i so are largly useless for arcade use.

The panasonic 68cm I have now as my living room tv also ignores WSS often, so the remote needs to be at hand to toggle aspect between watching movies and gaming.

In the end I gave up with it, and it ended up not fitting in my cab because the tube is wider then a curved front 29" tube.

[Flake]

I have 27" Toshiba TV with component inputs, decased and mounted in a Killer Instinct I cabinet.  This is the same cabinet as the NFL Bliltz and MK cabinets.  As LLUncoolJ stated, there isnt much room to spare but it does fit.  I also have the Nvidia 8400 GS PNY video card and use the dongle to output component to the TV.  I have my resolution set at 800x600 right now but it also does 720x480 and 640x480 resolutions as well.  In my video card I believe the highest resolution it will output to a TV is 1024x720 (something like that). 

I have future pinball setup on my cabinet as well.  It is playable and I enjoy playing it but it isnt as sharp as you will get on a computer monitor so keep that in mind.

Bottom line, I feel a 27" TV with component inputs is a great, much cheaper alternative to arcade monitors, especially if you want a larger display.

[Blanka]

Most of the time when a videocard outputs higher resolutions to TV's, it still outputs a 480i signal, but it scales down a 1024x768 virtual screen down to 720x480 by bicubic downsampling it.

[Flake]

Most of the time when a videocard outputs higher resolutions to TV's, it still outputs a 480i signal, but it scales down a 1024x768 virtual screen down to 720x480 by bicubic downsampling it.

Wow......I have no idea what you just said.  If you would have said "TV's are used to display images"  I would have learned just as much as I did reading your post.   

I'm joking of course, but seriously, what does this mean in layman terms?

I noticed that when I set my resolution to 1024x768, my FE Maximus Arcade gets scrunched to a smaller viewing size although there is more TV area to display the images.  Is this what you meant?  My resolution in MA is set to 800x600.

[ahofle]

Basically what he's saying is that the TV-out circuitry basically 'downsizes' the image to 720x480 interlaced.  An analogy would be if you had a 1024x768 JPG photo and you resized it down to 720x480.  You lose some resolution/detail.

[Flake]

So is the picture smaller or the same size but with less detail?

[Ummon]

That depends on how your TV does, or is successful at doing, it. Over or underscan can be a result.

[ahofle]

It does depend on the TV, but it's simpler to think of it as being the same size (ie. filling up the entire TV screen).

[cmoses]

I have 27" Toshiba TV with component inputs, decased and mounted in a Killer Instinct I cabinet.  This is the same cabinet as the NFL Bliltz and MK cabinets.  As LLUncoolJ stated, there isnt much room to spare but it does fit.  I also have the Nvidia 8400 GS PNY video card and use the dongle to output component to the TV.  I have my resolution set at 800x600 right now but it also does 720x480 and 640x480 resolutions as well.  In my video card I believe the highest resolution it will output to a TV is 1024x720 (something like that). 

I have future pinball setup on my cabinet as well.  It is playable and I enjoy playing it but it isnt as sharp as you will get on a computer monitor so keep that in mind.

Bottom line, I feel a 27" TV with component inputs is a great, much cheaper alternative to arcade monitors, especially if you want a larger display.

I assume you feel that the 800 x 600 is giving you a better picture than the 640 x 480.  Which makes sense.  Do you think it is converting the 800 x 600 to 480i or truly showing it a 800 x 600? 

What make and model 27" TV do you have?

[Blanka]

I was saying that the videocard handles this. No matter what resolution you choose in Windows or whatever OS your running, the desktop will get that size, but the videocard will rescale it to 480i resolution (or 576i in PAL countries) for the TV output.

Which means 640x480 desktops will stay roughly unaltered (depends on the setting of black border compensation)
And it means that 600x800 and 768x1024 are downsized in the videocard first. Downscaling from bigger desktops is not possible with most cards.

[Flake]

Actually cmoses, I'm not sure I notice any difference inside Maximus Arcade or Mame between 720x480 and 800x600.  The was running 720x480 for awhile but switched to 800x600 to be able to navigate windows better.  For whatever reason I dont get a noticeable difference inside MA or Mame between those resolutions - possibly because of the reasons stated by Blanka.  I do know that there are only two resolutions possible inside the video card (800x600 and 1024x768), however I can choose several different resolutions under the advanced properties tab in the display settings on the windows desktop.  The time I've noticed a changed inside MA or Mame is when i set the videocard resolution to the 1024x768 and then the screen gets shrunk.

I dont have the make or model on my TV but I do know its a 2005 model.

[LLUncoolJ]

Actually cmoses, I'm not sure I notice any difference inside Maximus Arcade or Mame between 720x480 and 800x600.  The was running 720x480 for awhile but switched to 800x600 to be able to navigate windows better.  For whatever reason I dont get a noticeable difference inside MA or Mame between those resolutions - possibly because of the reasons stated by Blanka.  I do know that there are only two resolutions possible inside the video card (800x600 and 1024x768), however I can choose several different resolutions under the advanced properties tab in the display settings on the windows desktop.  The time I've noticed a changed inside MA or Mame is when i set the videocard resolution to the 1024x768 and then the screen gets shrunk.

I dont have the make or model on my TV but I do know its a 2005 model.

It's a Toshiba, no?

[Flake]

Yes I'm sorry I had stated in an earlier post it was a Toshiba - I meant to say I dont have the model number available.

[cmoses]

Well I hooked up a 20" 4:3 aspect ratio LCD TV to the NVidia GT 9400 card last night using the breakout cable that came with the card.  It plugs in the back of the video card into a plug that looks like S-Video but has more pins and gives component out.

I booted up with both monitor and TV hooked up first, saw that it recognized the TV and changed it to the primary display.  Shut down, disconnected the monitor and booted up with just the TV.  Worked fine, the TV showed it was displaying in 1080i mode.  Was able to use 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 modes.  640x480 seemed to be the clearest resolution, with 800x600 very close.  The higher resolutions worked but were not any clearer. 

So definitely a big difference between using a monitor and a TV.  The graphics are very crisp and clear on the monitor.  The TV had a little blurriness, but not an issue and also seemed more authentic feeling.  I think the advantages of going to a TV and getting a bigger picture will outweigh the disadvantages of a little blurriness and a lower resolution. 

[Ummon]

I bet there's a difference between an LCD and CRT in how they interact with the card.