Looking for New Video Game Ideas

[SavannahLion]

Regardless, being one of the programmers myself, I'm not too concerned about all of our programmers being incompetent   
*waits for joke about how I will probably be the only incompetent programmer on the team*

That feeling will go away real fast after the first refactor and you start dipping into the other programmer's code. Either you'll develop a seething hatred for the incompetency of the other programmer or your competency will grow in leaps and bounds as you witness new coding tricks.

[RayB]

And once again Xiau2 launches off the deep end...

AtomSmasher: I hope you don't consider me one of those "holier than thous" you mentioned. But I do have 15 years of game related experience under my belt... 

[AtomSmasher]

Regardless, being one of the programmers myself, I'm not too concerned about all of our programmers being incompetent   
*waits for joke about how I will probably be the only incompetent programmer on the team*

That feeling will go away real fast after the first refactor and you start dipping into the other programmer's code. Either you'll develop a seething hatred for the incompetency of the other programmer or your competency will grow in leaps and bounds as you witness new coding tricks.

Hehe, very true.  Actually I just got a very good sign from the other main programmer, he sent me a document titled "Coding Standards and Best Programming Practices" which covers things like naming conventions and standardizing code across a team.  I'm really glad thats one of the first things he's thinking of and I'm equally glad that one of the first things the document says is don't use Hungarian notation     I've only glanced through the document so far, but it looks pretty similar to the notation I already use, so it won't require much for me to adapt to it.

[AtomSmasher]

AtomSmasher: I hope you don't consider me one of those "holier than thous" you mentioned. But I do have 15 years of game related experience under my belt... 

No, I was strictly refering to Mr.X with that statement.

[SavannahLion]

Regardless, being one of the programmers myself, I'm not too concerned about all of our programmers being incompetent   
*waits for joke about how I will probably be the only incompetent programmer on the team*

That feeling will go away real fast after the first refactor and you start dipping into the other programmer's code. Either you'll develop a seething hatred for the incompetency of the other programmer or your competency will grow in leaps and bounds as you witness new coding tricks.

Hehe, very true.  Actually I just got a very good sign from the other main programmer, he sent me a document titled "Coding Standards and Best Programming Practices" which covers things like naming conventions and standardizing code across a team.  I'm really glad thats one of the first things he's thinking of and I'm equally glad that one of the first things the document says is don't use Hungarian notation     I've only glanced through the document so far, but it looks pretty similar to the notation I already use, so it won't require much for me to adapt to it.

Is this it? Interesting, Hungarian and CamelBack were one of the first things ever grilled into my head in my early school days. I almost always stick to CamelBack, but Hungarian seems to vary on what environment I'm in.

Never really noticed Hungarian was falling out of favor. I was always noticing that two or more programmers can't ever meet on the same standards. TBH I wouldn't give a flying ---fudgesicle--- if variables and functions were in German with Japanese prefixes and French Sigils as long as it was consistent. 

[ClubNinja]

I've always wanted to write a street hockey game based on the way we actually used to play as a kid... varying arenas. 

The street arena should include the added challenge of having to carry the nets to the sides without getting hit when a car rolls through. 

[AtomSmasher]

Is this it? Interesting, Hungarian and CamelBack were one of the first things ever grilled into my head in my early school days. I almost always stick to CamelBack, but Hungarian seems to vary on what environment I'm in.

Never really noticed Hungarian was falling out of favor. I was always noticing that two or more programmers can't ever meet on the same standards. TBH I wouldn't give a flying ---fudgesicle--- if variables and functions were in German with Japanese prefixes and French Sigils as long as it was consistent. 

Yup thats the one.  The Pascal and CamelBack notations are the ones I was originally taught and the ones I always used.  We learned Hungarian briefly in one of my classes, but I never really used it or liked it.

[RayB]

A tip from a veteran:

http://games.greggman.com/pages/self_documenting_names.htm

[Xiaou2]

Heh, so have I, but unlike you I don't count it as experience unless the games actually get made.

Feel free to continue crapping gold until you make your fortune, and I'll continue trying to have a good time instead of worrying about money.

Honestly I was hoping you were going to avoid this thread as I've seen your modesty about your game development skills in past threads and frankly anyone with a holier then thou attitude irritates me.

 Not everyone has a sports car and nice big cozy house,  as well as a good
paying career such as would seem via your self absorbed/boasting website. 
Its a lot easier to have fun when you actually have the money to burn to do so.

 Im the typical underdog,  with very little going for me, that could end up living in a
cardboard box, unless I can use one of the only talents I have to pull me out in time
before things get really bad.   Maybe if I was born with a brain that had good
memory retention, and worked a lot better period... Id have something to at
least fall back on.   Sadly, that is not the case,  and unless science has some
revolutionary breakthru,  Im stuck with  "486 inside". 


 Also... making a game is hard work.   Ask Anyone who has made anything
significant.   Its one of the reasons why I couldnt get people to stick around on the
MM project.   They get all excited about things... then they realize just how much
sweat equity that they have to put in, and its Quitten time.   

 They also are going to want to do things their way.  Which isnt always the
best way.  Their way is somewhat more fun to them...  any other way is
too much work.   I cant tell you how many artists sent me some very horrific
substandard crap that simply wouldnt even match the games look.  Or
an animation that looked awkwardly unrealistic.  Or ideas for a game that
would have wrecked it completely. 

 I do have a certain joy in creation, but make no mistake...   
Its strenuous hard work.

 
 And finally, I could list here pages worth more experience in Design, Building, and Art..
than you could probably list in 'partially programmed' efforts.   Ive spent years 
locking myself in my room entire day/night, several days a week, for months at a time, straining my brains for ideas, designing and drawing concept sketches..  and falling
asleep with pencil in hand amongst the many scattered filled pages of material.
Its not to brag.  Its simply truth through accumulated efforts.

 That of course doesnt even list partially working Demos Ive had made with
others... or the direction of Marble Insanity..  for which I directed and designed
pretty much all the artworks... including doing a bunch of art myself (such as the
actual marble graphic itself).  (Much of which isnt on the site itself, which I also
had made..)


 Annoying as I may be to you... does not mean that I do not have game designs that
really are revolutionary.   I could be modest, and tell you that Im Ok... and that
wouldnt change a thing.  The proof is in the pudding.   You see the design... and then
you would know for sure. 


 But as said... Im not going to hand over a design that I fought with for weeks worth
of efforts, coming from years worth of previous efforts...  all for nothing.   And Im sure
as hell not going to watch my design get stolen by some big company... watch them
ruin it by poor implementation... and watch them get rich and take extended
vacations while I bust my *** just trying to keep my beat up car from dieing all the
while living with relatives cause of instability of funds/jobs...  and wondering how the
hell Im gona come up with the  $10,000 to fix my worsening (painful, as well as ugly)  crooked teeth and jaw that need to be broke and pushed backwards. And thats
just the start of a long list of growing troubles that seems insurmountable, and are
getting very Urgent in my aging life.

 
 Anyways.. as stated.. I dont even know if you are capable..  so Im very far from
begging you to program my game(s).

[AtomSmasher]

Not everyone has a sports car and nice big cozy house,  as well as a good
paying career such as would seem via your self absorbed/boasting website. 
Its a lot easier to have fun when you actually have the money to burn to do so.

You mean the website that hasn't been updated in 2 years that doesn't show that being in the real estate industry I'm now driving a Saturn Ion and have $20 left in my bank account after paying my mortgage each month without knowing if I'll get enough work to pay my bills next month?  Ya, I need to update that site. 

Sorry, but this is as far as I read of your giant post, so it's the only paragraph I'll be responding to.  I've learned from past experience its not worth my time to continue reading any further then that.

*edit* against better judgement I did skim through the rest of you're post and I'm glad I did because it was hilarious.  The self-rightous insanity reminds me of reading the TimeCube webpage.  Good times.

[protokatie]

Sorry, but this is as far as I read of your giant post, so it's the only paragraph I'll be responding to.  I've learned from past experience its not worth my time to continue reading any further then that.

Ive found that on any web forum post that if the topic wasnt of intense interest to me and the person did not form the introductory paragraph in a compelling way, that I simply speed read through it (or dont if it is an overly long one). I have nothing against "Mr X" (love that nickname for him, reminds me of Brand X) but it is sometimes difficult to read through his posts... It would be nice if Mr X was more concise, but you have to admit that he atleast uses paragraphs... 

[RayB]

But as said... I'm not going to hand over a design that I fought with for weeks worth
of efforts, coming from years worth of previous efforts...  all for nothing.   And Im sure
as hell not going to watch my design get stolen by some big company... watch them
ruin it by poor implementation... and watch them get rich and take extended
vacations while I bust my ***

Then your game will not get made. Ever. (Unless you teach yourself to program or partner with someone).

It is paranoia to think your idea is so golden and obvious that anyone could or would take it and make a mint. The fact is most established companies are too risk averse to even try ideas from within their own ranks. Independants are more interested in their own ideas, than somebody else's unproven concepts.  Take a look for example at Kyle Gabler's experimental games: http://www.experimentalgameplay.com/ (sorry, site doesn't seem to be working right now).  Anyways, he releases Tower of Goo something like 2 years ago (for FREE). Everyone raved about it, and then you'd think that there would be a dozen or so clones of the idea, but no. NONE. He then releases "World of Goo" (2 years later), a full fledged independant release, priced at $20 (PC, $15 on Wii). Accolades all around.

All he did was partner with one programmer. He handled the art, game design and music. The programmer coded and was there to "knock heads" with on design ideas or problems.

If your ideas and creativity really is on par with Kyle Gabler's, then just do it. You will be too brilliant to rip off. On the other hand, if your idea is so simple that it can easily be ripped off, then... that says a lot about the idea. But even then, there are ways to protect yourself; Contracts and Non-Disclosure Agreements for example.

Here, do some reading: www.indiegamer.com

[Ummon]

I've read of a similar thing in writing, where a person will hoard their idea for a story, or maybe (conversely and perhaps perversely) try to hawk it to a published author. It's generally not the idea but how it's done.

[Xiaou2]

Ray,

 What I meant was that I will not give my designs over without an NDA being
signed firsthand.   

 I have paired myself with programmers before... yet sadly,  this hasnt worked out
well due to the programmers lacking in abilities... as well as conflicts in design goals.
(IE: Programmer wants ideas really badly... then decides that his ideas should be
installed instead)

 As for brilliance being ripper off...  While it may have worked out for some... its not
always the case for others.   New gameplay methods are only New until released
in the wild.  Then they become fair game for others to copycat.

 If you have a good team behind you,  and can get work done well before anyone can
attempt a copycat.. then your golden.   However,  if you release the info too soon,
and others with complete and well funded teams take note...  You may have just
wasted a lot of time and efforts.

 Anyways...  Im taking a break for a bit.  Gathering the strength needed to take the
plunge back into design mode again... and finish this one up.

 When its completed.. which shouldnt be too long..  Ill consider my options a bit more
aggressively than in my past.


 Btw - You have some nice artworks on your pages.

[IG-88]

...."just trying to keep my beat up car from dieing all the
while living with relatives cause of instability of funds/jobs...  and wondering how the
hell Im gona come up with the  $10,000 to fix my worsening (painful, as well as ugly)  crooked teeth and jaw that need to be broke and pushed backwards. And thats
just the start of a long list of growing troubles that seems insurmountable, and are
getting very Urgent in my aging life..."

If life is getting this tough for you maybe it's time to get a new career? One with benefits to get your teeth fixed. Taco Bell is always hiring.

[Xiaou2]

If I had the brains, I probably would have had a career.

 Taco bell.  Yeah, umm... sure buddy.  Are you like 8?!  Fast food work isnt a career.  Its a part time first job... or a last resort before walking the streets with an empty cup.

 Even some of the best jobs Ive had...didnt carry dental.   The ones
that did... didnt pay for crap,  and didnt pay for such things unless you were
a kid that was under 12.   They consider such things "cosmetic"   unless maybe its life threatening.  Probably wouldnt even consider the TMJ  forming, unless its already at a state of extremity.

 Im not crying.  Life is tough, and there are a lot of people out there in worse
positions than me.  I simply wont give my hard work away for free..
especially when I REALLY need it to pull through.  And really, I do deserve to
succeed for all the hours Ive put in over my lifetime.

[protokatie]

I had a dream a few nights ago about a Wii game that doesnt exist (I was playing it on a Wii in the dream, even though I have never played one, odd) and thought it would be a good idea of a dual trackball (or trackball and joystick) cab.

Basically, the "playfield" was a 3-d "ball of string" or similar. You controlled an orb/ball that could move along the string, and when two parts of the string were close enough and you had a special power up, you could jump to the other part of the ball of string. The objective would be to catch up with these little sparkles that moved along the string (that could also do the "jump" depending on what the AI told them to do). Once you caught up with one, you would press and hold the button and proceed to "fish it off the string" and catch it (this aspect of the game would be similar in controls to a fishing game, where you had to constantly "fight" with it).

The controls would be simple. Left trackball to move your ball, right trackball/joy to rotate the 3-d ball of string and a button that did dual duty as the jump and pull/fish button. Simple little game that would be easy to code and could be addictive.

[SavannahLion]

.... You controlled an orb/ball that could move along the string, and when two parts of the string were close enough and you had a special power up, you could jump to the other part of the ball of string. The objective would be to catch up with these little sparkles that moved along the string (that could also do the "jump" depending on what the AI told them to do). Once you caught up with one, you would press and hold the button and proceed to "fish it off the string" and catch it (this aspect of the game would be similar in controls to a fishing game, where you had to constantly "fight" with it).

It's almost like some of the tracks in Kirby's Air Ride. At some points in the game, the track will switch (or have alternate routes) to rails that "lock" the racer onto a particular course. When the rails travel parallel and are close enough to each other, the racer can jump to different tracks.

I think you've got an interesting idea. It would be something I would give a try if the illusion of speed was kept up. I would think it would be pretty boring if the game just plodded along as you traveled around looking for sparkles.

[AtomSmasher]

I thought everyone might like an update about what happened and whats going on, especially since I have some exciting news (more on that later).

The team I initially joined with to make a game started off pretty good and we had a great group of people with only one exception...the leader.  He was dragging his feet at every chance possible, talked in a demeaning way to people for no reason, and shortly after he missed the first meeting without giving a single excuse, everyone who was at the first meeting quit and formed a new team.

Our new team quickly decided on the type and setting of game we were going to make and let our designer figure out the details.  After a couple weeks he had a nearly completed design doc, and the rest of us then got started creating the game.  We've currently made good progress on the game engine, have a couple music tracks finished, and a fair amount of concept art completed.  Things are going well.

That brings us to last week where I got an unexpected phone call from a local game company who want to hire me.  You see a few months ago I had applied at their company and completed a programming test, but they were between projects at the time and not hiring.  They said they would keep my resume and test results on file and contact me when they were hiring again, so I figured I'd never hear from them again (I think we've all heard the "We'll keep your resume on file" line before).  Well, I was wrong and last week they let me know that they just signed two new game contracts and are hiring again.

I just got confirmation from the company (www.wayforward.com) that I'll be starting work as a Junior Programmer this coming Monday.   

The bad news is that I'll be making less money then I am now and will have to work a second job on the weekends (which will actually be my current job with a reduced workload), but I figure this is something I've always wanted to do, so a little hard work to get my foot in the door should be worth it.  This also means I'll have little time to work on my other game project since I'll have little free time, but I've let them know I'll still do what I can.  Since the mail goal of our team was to gain experience to be able to get a job in the game industry, they all seem to understand and are wishing me luck.

Now I can't wait to see what the first professional game I'm going to help create is going to be.  Let's just hope it's not Barbie Princess Adventures 

[AtomSmasher]

Yesterday was my first day at the video game company and it was pretty surreal to have virtually every conversation within earshot to be about video games, star wars, battlestar galactica, etc.  So far it looks like it'll be a great company to work for and should be a pretty awesome job 

[RayB]

Congratulations. Your job, which now pays less, will not be to "make a game" but to code some little "cog" in the game-making machine, like for example, maybe your job will be coding up the functions that handle loading graphics. Wheeee!!! 

Let me know when the disillusionment settles in.
 

[AtomSmasher]

Heh, ya I know I'll be working on smaller stuff, but we'll be using engines that are already competed, so I'll mostly be doing gameplay and graphical stuff.  For example I might do something (this is an exact example they showed me of something I'll likely be doing) like getting a fire effect to play right and do damage correctly (it's all hand drawn 2D animations, so it's just a matter of manipulating the animations and variables).

Anyways, they have done a large number of forgettable titles, but have also done a few really good ones (like Contra 4).  Now that I've seen the games they're currently working on, they have a couple new ones that look really good as well.  They're also starting to take advantage of the downloadable games and making their own original IP, such as LIT (and another one coming up I'm not sure I can talk about), which all look pretty cool.  Of course they also have one I'm not real excited about.

Regardless, it's all very cool   Its always nice to have an office job where I can work whenever I want, as long as I put in 8 hours a day, can wear whatever I want, and can relax playing ping pong, foosball, or playing video games in the lounge 

[AtomSmasher]

Congratulations. Your job, which now pays less, will not be to "make a game" but to code some little "cog" in the game-making machine, like for example, maybe your job will be coding up the functions that handle loading graphics. Wheeee!!! 

Let me know when the disillusionment settles in.
 

Well I got my actual assignment today and was switched off of the initial project I thought I would be on (it's still in the design stage, which is too early in development to need programmers), and I've been handed a big load of responsibility.  Looks like I'll be solely responsible for 2 minigames in an upcoming 3D Wii game (I know what your thinking, a minigame collection is exactly what the Wii needs right now).  Okay, so technically I'll only be making 1 and a half since the first one is already half done, but I get to use the half finished one to learn the engine and how everything works.  The programmer I'm taking over for is leading up a new game they're starting, so he's also walking me through what he's done so far.

This is far more responsiblity then I expected, but it's also far cooler then I expected 

Good times.

[protokatie]

Looks like my beloved (IE picked on) AtomSmasher is looking at a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- wagon that not only carries ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- but is also MADE of it...

Atomsmasher; please ask for payment daily, and in cash. I do hope the best for you, but I have this niggling little feeling that you just got ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the long term. Best of luck.

[AtomSmasher]

Looks like my beloved (IE picked on) AtomSmasher is looking at a ---Cleveland steamer--- wagon that not only carries ---Cleveland steamer--- but is also MADE of it...

Atomsmasher; please ask for payment daily, and in cash. I do hope the best for you, but I have this niggling little feeling that you just got ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- in the long term. Best of luck.

Heh, why do you think that?  This company has been around for over 15 years and had some actual hits over the years.  (Contra 4 is the highest rated DS game made by an independent developer).  I also overheard that we currently have so many projects going that we had to turn down a Batman DS game because we wouldn't be able to devote the resources to get it finished on time.  Tommorrow our company is being interviewed for the Nintendo Channel on the Wii.

Theres one upcoming game that I really want to talk about because it looks awesome, but a search online looks like theres only been speculation that this game is in development, so I'm probably not allowed to say anything about it.  Let's just say I have no worries about this companies immediate future....and if for some crazy reason it didnt work out, then I can easily go back to my old job.

Also, I said that I'd be working two jobs, but I didn't mention that the other job will only take about 4 hours a week in order for me to be making more then enough to get by.  My old job (real estate appraiser) pays really well, but business has been so slow for so long and with upcoming legislation killing the last of our business (although lawsuits have already began to overturn this legislation), it was a good time to jump ship to another profession.  I just figured out how much I made last year and it looks like I'll be making slightly more as the low paid programmer then I did last year, so the extra work I'll be doing will mainly be so that I can start paying off my credit cards instead of watching them continue to rise.

[RayB]

Despite what I said, congratulations.   
 

[AtomSmasher]

Despite what I said, congratulations.   
 

Heh, no worries.  And thanks   

Today I got to show off what I've got working so far and then shared a few ideas on ways to make the minigame I'm working on more fun (and more of a challenge), and they liked my ideas, so now I'm working on the improvements I came up with 

Tommorrow should be a bizarre day, the Nintendo TV crew is going to be here all day and they're bringing a fog machine.

[AtomSmasher]

Update on Pony Trot Trot Step Adventure?

I'll pitch it at the next meeting 

[SavannahLion]

Update on Pony Trot Trot Step Adventure?

I'll pitch it at the next meeting 

At least you'll get a PA pitch.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/1/9/

I'd rather play this one though.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/5/26/