Oops! There goes another Mountain Juke Box! (*05/04/2009*) Update

[javeryh]

wow - looking good.  I love the router guides.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks JaveryH!

Ok, I got the L brackets laid out for the speaker bar.
I placed the speaker bar where it should reside and laid the L brackets where I think they should go.
I then marked the holes on the wood. Then I flipped the box over, and using a tape measure, duplicated the marks on the other side.





I then drilled the holes from the front side. I countersunk the 8/32" T-nuts so they would be below the surface of the wood. The L brackets will fasten with a screw into the T-nut.
I placed a small piece of aluminum tape over each T-nut, to keep the laminate glue out of the screw holes.
Sorry about the quality of this pic. It is very cold out in the shed and I think I might have been shivering.



I then brought the project indoors, where it is warm.
I applied the glue to the back of the laminate and the wood. I waited about 15 minutes for the glue to get tacky.
I then laid out my round wood dowels and placed the laminate on top.
I lined it up best as I could, I cut the piece about an inch too wide and too long, to give me some "play" room.
I then removed the dowels one at a time, pressing the laminate down in the direction of the next dowel. Hopefully this squeezes out most of the air.
I then used a wood biscuit rolling pin to roll it out. (I dont have a J roller).



Notice the rough edge on the laminate in the last pic? This chipped while I was cutting it out. Using the wood dowels allowed me to position the piece to leave the chipped area outside the trim zone.

I let the glue set up for about 10 minutes, then I flipped the whole box over and applied the 1/8" acrylic.
I applied it basically the same way as the laminate, except I roughed up the surface to be glued a bit with some 100 grit sandpaper. (Thanks for that tip, Mountain!)



Now it's bed time.
Tomorrow before going into work, I plan to trim the acrylic and laminate.
I am thinking of spray painting the inside of the box black.
If I have time tomorrow I would also like to cut out the holes. (Cant wait to try out my router guide!)

[Franco B]

Looking good DaOld Man 

Do you have an intended finish date?

Enjoy your sleep 

[javeryh]

Nice! For what it's worth, I used industrial strength velcro to hold my speaker bar in place.  I put a very thin strip (1/4") on each side of the flat front panel and it's not going anywhere.   I thought about brackets and drilling holes in the speaker bar but then my wife said, "why not just use some velcro?" 

[drawfull]

Looking really good DaOld Man! How long do you think you have to go til you're done?

[DaOld Man]

Thanks guys!
I overslept. Wife is at work and house is nice and quite. The dog didnt even bug me, which is unusual, but he's been by my side throughout this project so maybe hes a little tired too, or maybe hes getting old too?


Franco, my intended finish date is Dec 25, my wifes birthday.
She knows Im doing this, (it's kinda hard to hide from her), and she has already said that it's ok if I dont finish by then, but I am trying to make it.
(What did I say earlier about not setting deadlines? )

Jav, that sounds like a good idea, I guess I missed that about the velcro in your thread, I can still do that if my spring idea doesnt do right.

Drawful, I have some days off next week, so Im hoping to get some serious work done then. I would hope to get the woodwork finished in two weeks, then I will have a couple of weeks to install and fine tune the electronics.

Ive only got a couple of hours until work today, so I am going to try to spray paint the inside of the speaker box. I think I will wait about the routering until tonight. (Sorry neighbors, but hey it's for a good cause.)

What is left to do?
Cut all holes in speaker box.
Mount magnets and see how much I will need to counter sink them.
Start on top box back. (I think the front is finished.)
Apply skin.
Apply laminate to top box.
Cut T-molding slots.
Cut out hole for the Powermate (you better be good to me, PM!)
Then probably 100 things I havent thought of yet.

[Franco B]

Ah cool. Its my GF's birthday on the 31st (NYE) but im planning on giving it to her on Xmas day. Here's hoping we all get finished in time

[DaOld Man]

 

[javeryh]

Jav, that sounds like a good idea, I guess I missed that about the velcro in your thread, I can still do that if my spring idea doesnt do right.

I'm a bit behind actual progress in the thread... I lost some steam making all those mistakes so I'm kind of taking a break.   

[DaOld Man]

Ive got a feeling you are about to throw a few logs on the fire and get that steam built up again.

I worked on the juke this afternoon, since I was off work.
But first, a pic from yesterday showing the paint on the inside of the speaker box:



And here is the laminate trimmed and holes cut in the top:



Here is the back, holes cut. Hmmm, does that cutout on the right kinda look like a snowman?
May be a sign of things to come??



Ok, now the good part.
I turned my circle cutter upside down and used it like a router table.
I cut a hole in the center to allow the laminate cutter bit to stick through.
I then inserted my router guide:



Here is the bit, ready to cut:



I then just ran the bit's bearing around the router guide. I had to hold the guide in with my fingers while cutting, so I had to be extra careful.
Here is the result:



I then swapped out the laminate trim bit with the 45 degree chamfer bit and repeated the process:



It looks pretty rough. I dressed it up quite a bit with some 100 grit sandpaper. Ive got to go back and review how everyone else is polishing the edge.

Next I installed the speaker bar L brackets:



Then I inserted the speaker bar and ran a wire around it and the L brackets. I need to pick up a proper sized spring, but this is just a test fitting.



And here is the truth or dare shot:



I am very tempted to remove the paper backing on the acrylic, but no, not now.

Ok, I then removed the speaker bar and inserted the 4-40 T-nuts for the magnet cups:



And here is the magnet cups installed:



I hit a bit of a snag with the magnet cups.
I ordered 4-40 flush allen bolts for the magnet cups.
This is about the only size bolt that will fit in the cup's hole. Also it has to be flush to fit low enough to clear the magnet, so the magnet doesnt "ride up".
The bolts I ordered was 1/2" long, which I figured would be long enough, since the T-nuts go into the wood a bit.
But I was wrong. The bolts wont reach the T-nut.
So, I got to see if my local hardware store has any 4-40 bolts 3/4" long.
Im using regular bolts in the picture, to get a feel for how the magnets and the plates are going to clear.
I had to counter-sink the cups a bit. I cut out the laminate on each hole with a forstner bit. Im hoping the thickness of the laminate will be enough to allow the cups and the plates to clear.

[DaOld Man]

I temporarily installed the power entry module and the admin plate.
I took a picture, and then I noticed in the picture that I have scratched the laminate on the back.
It was probably when I had the back on the table, probably some shavings or drill chips got between it and the table. (Man I wish I had masked it all off with tape.)
Anyway, see the scratches under the admin plate?



There are more scratches around the upper edge.
Can someone please tell me how or if I even can, remove these scratches?

[drawfull]

It's looking great DaOld man!

removing scratches. First thing I thought of was (boot) polish as they're on the back, then that car wax stuff with colour in it.

I googled it too and someone mentinos car wax for removing scratches from matt black laminate... Someone else mentioned toothpaste, but not the gel kind.

Cheers

[DaOld Man]

Thanks drawful! I will try the toothpaste first since it is readily available.

I got the 4-40 bolts from the hardware store this morning. They are not allen type, but slotted, but they will work.
It hit me that what if I ever have to remove the magnets? These things are strong, and Im not sure I could get them out if need be, so I removed the T-nuts in the bottom part and used regular 4-40 nuts. This should allow me to remove them if necessary.
(And it will be, because I will have to remove them before I cut the T molding slot.)

Anyway, I installed the magnets and discs. Im not sure Im going to like the rotating. My lazy susan bearing has a lot of slop in it, which allows the bottom of the juke to tilt.
I plan to try and fix the slop like mountain did.
Those magnets are very strong. I will have to separate them from the discs even more.
I think I will try to counter sink the discs the same way I did the cups.

Im starting to wish I went with the no-rotating design like the rest of you guys did.
Its not too late, providing I can get the acrylic off the front of the speaker box.
But I have come a long way to admit defeat! Maybe too far.

[drawfull]

I will try the toothpaste first since it is readily available.

I'd try it on some scrap first, just in case.

[Franco B]

Looking good DaOld Man!

For polishing I used P120 grit where necessary (I had quite a good finish so It didn't need it every where, I used it more for blending), then P320, P600, P800, P1200 before using the Novus 3 step polishing kit. The stuff is amazing!

[DaOld Man]

Thanks guys!

Drawful, I tried the toothpaste, it didnt work. The scratches are not that noticeable, of course under a different light they may be.
They are really more like marks than scratches. I didnt notice them until I took that picture.
And they are on the back (Thank God), so I'm not going to let this slow me down.
But I may try some of your other suggestions before I get to the end.
I am considering it a lesson learned. Im taking the extra few minutes to mask off everything from now on.

Thanks for the advice for polishing the acrylic Franco! I need to get some sandpaper of those grits and that novus stuff. Id be happy if the edge of my acrylic turns out half as good as the ones on your pink juke.

Last night when I got home from work I played around some more with the rotating magnets. I decided to remove the magnet disks and just try the bolt heads, and they work a lot better. The turning motion is not as jerky, and there is plenty of clearance.
So I will have to see how it works when I get all the weight on top, but for now this is looking like the way to go for me.

A note about these magnets. They are very very strong!
I would not recommend using these anywhere near a CRT monitor. The T-nuts on top, that I installed to attach the disks with, are strong enough to hold a screwdriver when you touch it to them. And thats with the magnets about a 1/4" away from the screw thats in them.
Im kinda worried if this will affect the hard drive, but I think the HD should be shielded enough to handle it.

[javeryh]

I'll let you know what effect, if any, the magnets I ordered have on my hard drive.  I think I'm going to be OK but I am planning on installing 10 rare earth magnets to hold my back panel in place (3/8" diameter).  I will be boring some holes in the case to hold them so hopefully that will provide some shielding.  I might also use less than 10 of them depending on the seal I can achieve.  They are very strong but I want the panel to look like it is fastened in place and not just hanging there - I definitely don't want any light escaping...

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Jav.
I had an idea to improve the way the juke turns on the base and cut down on the magnetism inside the juke.
I made an armature out of a cheap pizza pan.
I first cut the rim off the pizza pan (a 12" one-- cost 3 bucks).
I then laid the flat piece under the juke bottom and punch a hole in each magnet position.
I then used a stick with a nail in each end.
One nail was used as a pivot which I inserted in the center of the metal disk.
I then used it like the circle cutter to make a mark around the outside of the screw holes.
I then moved the outer nail in 3/4" and made another mark on the inside of the screw holes.
I then used metal cutters to cut out both lines.
I wound up with this:



I attached the bottom to the speaker box and it turns a lot smoother.
It doesnt free wheel when it is between magnets.
The screws on the inside still attract a screwdriver, but they are not nearly as strong as they were before I added the armature.
The armature "shorts out" the magnet force by directing the force to the next magnet.
I also had to alternate the north and south poles of each magnet.
The armature keeps a force on the bottom throughout the rotation.
When the screws line up with the magnets. they still lock in, but the whole operation is smoother.

I also got the back cut out.
Here it is next to the front.

[drawfull]

Great idea with the armature! I would never have thought to do something like that. Keep it up, looks great!

[reko19]

Have few questions about the monitor. Looking at your pictures I have exact same model.  Was wondering what are the two twisted wires (black and red) with insulated female connectors are for. Also, the monitor appears to be always ON, is there any way to turn it OFF?  According to the manual there should be ON/OFF switch at the bottom but I don't think it is there. And lastly with the sensing wires attached to the face of  the monitor I don't think there is a way to mount it up against a black plexi. It looks like there has to be about 1/8" gap between the bezel and the monitor. Is this is how you are planning to mount it? Thanks for your help.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks drawful!

Hello Reko.
Those black/red twisted wires are for a speaker.
They go through the monitor chassis down to a circuit board on the inside, lower right corner. Im pretty sure the board is an amplifier for the speaker.
I wont be needing this function, so I unplugged the circuit board and removed it.
I cut the red/black wires from the plug and pulled them out of the chassis.

There is a small board on the side of the monitor with some small push button switches on it.
One of these switches is the power button.
I dont remember which one. I suggest you plug it up and experiment.
I need my monitor to stay turned on all the time, since I want it to come on and off with the computer. But I suppose you could solder a couple of wires to the monitor's on/off switch and use an external button to power it up. The board with the buttons is removable, I thought about taking mine off, but I figured I may need to adjust it later.
And Im not sure if the monitor would come on or not with this board removed.
Also, yes, I figured I will need about a 1/8" gap between the acrylic on the front and the monitor screen.
Im planning on using some foam stick on insulation stuff around the edge of the acrylic hole to fill the gap. (I think this is what Mountain used on his.)

[reko19]

Thanks for the reply. Just as an FYI, the manual for the monitor is available here:

http://media.elotouch.com/pdfs/manuals/008521_f.pdf

Go to download section for drivers.

I did notice that you don't have a small board at the bottom corner of the monitor, assuming it is an amplifier I'll be removing it as well.

Keep us posted with your progress.  Regards.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for the link Reko!

Ok, here are some measurements for the front and back panels.

Edited to include mm measures.
Please double check your measurements before cutting anything. I used a conversion chart off the net to enter these values and I cant guarantee its accuracy.

The back, AS BUILT:




The front, AS BUILT:



Edit: Added juke bottom. AS BUILT:

[Martijn]

and now one in the metric system 

[DaOld Man]

Ask and ye shall receive.

Check out the pictures again.

Be sure to read the warning.

I got the converts here:

http://www.gujmedia.de/_content/20/11/201144/How-to-Convert_A4-quer.pdf

But I cant guarantee its accuracy.

[reko19]

What skin are you using for the Xlobby? I downloaded BONG2 created by Baddabing.

http://xlobby.help.googlepages.com/skins

It works and looks great. But I can't figure out how to get visualization to work. I am using winamp and pressing visualization button starts it in the winamp, but it just runs in the background. The other thing that does not work is the net radio. It is just trying to connect to some IP address which is probably no longer in service. Any Xlobby experts willing to help?

Thanks.

[mountain]

Not an expert but I can tell you a little about the net radio problem. Most of the stations that come with that build are gone. I looked into and remember finding a utility that would help import current ones into Xlobby. Google should help you find it.

Keep up the good work DaOld Man!

[reko19]

Mountain,
What skin are you using?

[Martijn]

thanks for the measurements. helps me a lot thinking ahead for my build

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Mountain, coming from you means a lot. You are the guy who started this you know. (BTW, have your ears been burning, especially when Im working late and messed up a piece I had been working on for hours?  )

Reko, right now I using the default skin that came with Xlobby, I may change it to the Bong, thats the one I used on Stevies Jukebox.
Cant help you with the radio, I never got that far into it yet.

Here are a few pics to catch up on my progress.

This is the front and back temporarily setting on the bottom, just to give me a feel of how its going to look:



And here is a shot with the marquee back plate. I used 3/8" wood dowels to brace and separate the three pieces.
I laid the three pieces down flush and got them all lined up then drilled 3/8" holes through all three pieces. After I unclamped everything I found that i had the front turned backwards, so I had to clamp then down again and re-drill so the dowels would line up. Man seems like I have screwed up every time I turned around on this project.
It's just about ready for the skin. I may run some braces across the front and back, horizontally. I have vertical braces installed, with tape so they dont get glued. I will remove them later:



Speaking of screwing up... here is another. I cut out a slot in the back for an air vent. I first drilled two holes with a paddle bit, then cut out the wood between the two holes with my router.
See the boo boo in the upper left corner? I took the router just a tad too far.
Hopefully I can wood putty it up.
Also notice in this picture that I cut a relief from just below the bottom of the hole to the top? The plan here is to cut out the laminate the same shape as the hole, then slide a piece of perforated metal between the laminate and the wood.
We shall see how that turns out..



I dont have anymore pictures, but I have since glued the front and back to the bottom.
I have also puttied up the boo boo in the air vent.
Next up: Glue the wood dowels, maybe put in a horizontal brace, then apply the skin.

[DaOld Man]

Got some major work done last night before I went to work.
First, I got the marquee back properly positioned and glued to the wood dowels:



I couldnt wait. I had to test fit everything to make sure it was going to fit before I applied the first skin.
Everything fit perfect. Plenty of room for the cables:



Of course I had to fire up and play some Hootie:



I removed all the parts. (It dont take long at all). I now placed teh first skin in a test position.
Notice my high tech weights?



I had an idea about stretching the skin tight.
I stapled two blocks on each edge of the skin, one was to act as a catch to hold it against one side:



And the other end I installed some bolts that I could tighten against the bottom to stretch the skin nice and smooth.



I did a test run without any glue and it worked great.
But when I put the glue on and placed the skin back on, something didnt do right.
I dont know if I moved the skin a little (it slides easy on the wet wood glue), but I got a little pucker on one corner.
So I tightened the bolts to try to straighten it out.
I must have went too tight, cause the staples pulled out.
I was working like a mad man then.
I managed to get it all smoothed out with some C clamps and I put some serious weight on top. (An old computer and a monitor).
I just got home from work and removed the C Clamps and the weight.
It looks like it will be OK.
I am going to crash for awhile, but hopefully this afternoon I can trim it up with the router.
I will try to get some fresh pictures then.
I think the idea of the screws will work, maybe I need pieces of 2X4's with some screws instead of staples.
I got one more skin to go so maybe I will try that method again.

I am not looking forward to putting on the laminate.

[Kaytrim]

Nice save there Old Man.  When you make a stretcher system like you did you need some serious holding power.  Staples aren't made to hold that much force.  What probably happened is that you were a little off in your alignment on the glue up.  That would have caused the pucker you experienced.  Your plan for the second skin should hold nicely.

When the time comes for the laminate make sure the the first short edge is square with the long edge.  This way you have a good guide for the application of the laminate.  It would also be a good idea to do a test fit prior to applying the glue.  Once contact cement touches it is stuck good and you will more than likely ruin the laminate if you need to reposition.

Keep us posted.
Michael

[DaOld Man]

Applied the second layer of skin last night before work.
This morning I trimmed it up and here is the "size compare to a can of beverage" pic..



I used the same skin stretching method as before. Except this time I used screws in the blocks instead of staples. It worked out pretty good. I would have used the spring clamps like everyone else but I only have a couple. The old 10 ton computer and monitor came in handy again.

You know, I think one layer of skin would have been strong enough for this project, but I sized the speaker box for the two layers so i went ahead and put on the second one.

Thanks for the advice on the laminate Micheal. This will be my first time applying laminate on anything other than a flat surface. So keep your fingers crossed for me. How about stopping by and giving me a hand? 

Next on the list:
Apply laminate to bottom and trim and cut holes.
Apply laminate around skin.
Apply laminate on back.
Make rabbet cut for back panel.
Apply front acrylic.
Cut out front acrylic.
Cut out T-molding slots.
Cut out hole for the powermate.

I dont work fast like most of you guys on here, so I wouldnt bet on me getting all that done in one session.

On a side note, stopped by the hardware store today and picked up some glazing points and some 3/16" foam weather stripping.

[drawfull]

It's looking great! What are the don't-know-the-name-are-they-t-nuts? for around the monitor bezel?

Are you going to make the Dell speaker br serviceable / removable? After my experience of a blown tweeter on day two of it being complete, it would seem like a good idea.

Faster! 

[Martijn]

looking good keep it up!

[DaOld Man]

Thanks guys..

Those nuts you are talking about drawful are exactly what you called them, T-nuts.
I think lowes has some bigger ones, but to get the small sizes I need (8-32 and 4-40) I had to get them from this hobby site:

http://rtlfasteners.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

And yes, the speaker bar will be easily removable, hopefully I wont ever need too, but who knows?
I will also be able to use other speakers by just plugging them into the jack in the back, which will cut off the speaker bar.
Im sure a set of logitechs with the thumping bass would sound a lot better than the bar.
Thats why it was important to me to install that jack.
BTW that really sucks about your blown speaker. Is it going to be hard to change out?

Edit:
if the above link to rtlfasteners doesnt work, try this:
http://rtlfasteners.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=RF

Then look in the left menu and click on blind (t) nuts.
I guess those T-nuts are also called Blind Nuts.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, Ive been busting my family jewels trying to get this project knocked out.
Here is a quick update.

This is the DVD rom I am installing in this bad boy:



I got it very cheap off ebay. The guy said it quit seeing Cd's on him. I hooked it up and tried it out, so far it's doing good for me. But if it craps out I will just buy a new one and replace it.
Here is the special IDE adapter installed:



Here is the bottom laminate, trimmed and holes drilled:



side laminate applied:



back laminate laid out for fitting (not glued on yet):



Back laminate from inside. I inserted a brown paper sack piece to keep the gap for my perf metal in the air hole from closing shut:



Here is a shot of the air hole, with perf metal inserted for test view:



Here is DVD test fitted:



Here is the front acrylic applied.
Im jumping a few steps here cause I forget to take pics.
All holes are cut.



When I cut the 45 degree chamfer, something happened in that corner. I dont know if the bit pushed my cutting guide up or what, but I noticed that the corner was rounded out by the bit.
I was ready to cry.



I have since sanded it out a bit, I'm hoping it wont look too bad.

Here is a shot with the monitor test fitted. You can see in this pic that the right corner rounded a bit too. But it's not near as bad as the left corner. I think if I use a router guide system again, I will fasten it down before routing:



Here is a shot of the marquee area after polishing with the novus 3 step system.
Man this stuff does wonders. I may polish it again though, because I can still see some very tiny scratches.



In the last picture you can see where I tried spraying some Rustoleum Metallic Paint in the marquee area. I thought this would reflect the light from the led bar better.
It turned out more gray than shiny like the top on the can. I also spray painted the rest of the inside black before I cut out the front acrylic, but since it was spraying in a hole, most of the paint didnt stick, so it turned out very splotchy to say the least.

Well thats it for now.
Next I got to finish the acrylic polishing, cut the T-molding slot, and cut the rabbet cut on the back.
Then I got to construct the back panel.

[reko19]

Good progress. Have you noticed in the original Mountain's juke the cutout for the speakers and rear panel are black at the edge. I don't think this is laminated MDF, looks like a different material was used. Are you planning to paint the edge black, right now you could see MDF behind  the laminate. Do you know what I am referring to, or should I post a pic? This is one of the steps that I keep wondering about, not sure how this is done. Can't be just the laminate, don't think it is thick enough.

[DaOld Man]

Are you talking about the air hole? (sixth picture up from here.)
I hadnt noticed that you can see the MDF behind the grill, thanks for pointing that out.
I think I will paint the mdf around the hole black. That should fix it.

[reko19]

Yes, this is the one.  I was trying to figure out how it is done, don't mean to critique or anything. Hope it didn't come across this way. If you look at Mountain's pics, it almost looks like a different material was used all together for the speaker opening and rear panel.