Photoshop Illustrator Layers and Stuff - Help? ;)

[Stinks]

So, I think I have most of my design layed out vector wise and am now looking to add some raster images to the CPO.

I finally figured out I had to export the file from Illustrator as a PSD to maintain the layers for editing in Photoshop, but when I try to export at 300 dpi, I get "Not enough memory to save file". Theres another thread on this subject, but its from 2006 and his solution doesn't seem to apply to me (His original image was accidentally created as CMYK and once he converted to RGB it worked...but my image is already RGB).

EDIT : I've been successful at exporting at up to 190 dpi. 200 gives me the error. I'm assuming it would not be wise to send it to the printers at 190 dpi?



Anyone know what my problem is? I would assume 2GB of ram would be sufficient for this operation....but maybe I'm wrong?(I've done a lot of image editing in the past, but never 12k x 6k before)

I've tried to just vectorize the image I want to use so I can just create the whole thing in AI, but when I expand it and ungroup it to delete the white background, the colors/vectors seem to separate from themselves (see attached image). Will it print like this/be noticeable?



Picture 1 is zoomed in 3 or 400% and picture 2 is at 100% zoom.




Thanks!

[waveryder]

There is a maximum size when exporting from illustrator to psd. Last piece of sideart I created was so huge that it just couldn't be exported completely at 300dpi. That was simply a piece of lineart!! EPS is much better as you can just drag into Pshop and set your dimensions and dpi at the images load.

I've tried to just vectorize the image I want to use so I can just create the whole thing in AI, but when I expand it and ungroup it to delete the white background, the colors/vectors seem to separate from themselves (see attached image). Will it print like this/be noticeable?

Sounds like your "autotracing" without an ignore or using a generated "vector magic" image. The problem with both of these is that the pallettes are never done properly and a lot of the time the "white" covers more than just the background. Kind of a change one, change em all kind of thing.

Yes it will be noticeable WYSIWYG !!!

Bit of graphics advice: Never combine raster and vectors when creating artwork. Choose one and work within the formats limitations and benefits. The formats have completely different purposes. If your going to create a high colour piece of artwork full of "special effects" you need to stay in Pshop from begining to end. The finished result will be worth it.
Just my morning coffee £0.02 

[venkman]

how about saving a file for each layer, and re-assembling it in photoshop?
layers information is bretty huge.. i'm afraid i don't know whay you are getting that error tho.

i usually just make art in illustrator, open a new file in photoshop of whatever size/resolution and then drag and drop over into the new file from illustrator.

also, at the size you are talking about printing you don't need it to be as high as 300 dpi.
the lager you set the format, the less dpi you need.

[Stinks]

There is a maximum size when exporting from illustrator to psd. Last piece of sideart I created was so huge that it just couldn't be exported completely at 300dpi. That was simply a piece of lineart!! EPS is much better as you can just drag into Pshop and set your dimensions and dpi at the images load.

I've tried to just vectorize the image I want to use so I can just create the whole thing in AI, but when I expand it and ungroup it to delete the white background, the colors/vectors seem to separate from themselves (see attached image). Will it print like this/be noticeable?

Sounds like your "autotracing" without an ignore or using a generated "vector magic" image. The problem with both of these is that the pallettes are never done properly and a lot of the time the "white" covers more than just the background. Kind of a change one, change em all kind of thing.

Yes it will be noticeable WYSIWYG !!!

Bit of graphics advice: Never combine raster and vectors when creating artwork. Choose one and work within the formats limitations and benefits. The formats have completely different purposes. If your going to create a high colour piece of artwork full of "special effects" you need to stay in Pshop from begining to end. The finished result will be worth it.
Just my morning coffee £0.02 

Yeah, I just live traced the image I wanted to use since it kept the original quality and it was the only way I could figure out how to actually edit the image in AI. The only thing I'm using vectors for is the borders around the CPO, buttons, etc. I would have done everything in photoshop to begin with but its just SO easy to make simple shapes in AI (and when I started, I wasn't sure I'd be able to find any high res images....planned to vectorize everything...but like most things I work on, it evolved as I went).

how about saving a file for each layer, and re-assembling it in photoshop?
layers information is bretty huge.. i'm afraid i don't know whay you are getting that error tho.

i usually just make art in illustrator, open a new file in photoshop of whatever size/resolution and then drag and drop over into the new file from illustrator.

also, at the size you are talking about printing you don't need it to be as high as 300 dpi.
the lager you set the format, the less dpi you need.

I tried doing each layer but still got the same error. I'll try the dragging and dropping method. If that doesn't work, I'll see if I can cut each layer in half and reassemble in Photoshop.









Thanks again!










EDIT : Dragging and dropping worked wonders. The only problem is having to realign everything (very small problem).

[waveryder]

i usually just make art in illustrator, open a new file in photoshop of whatever size/resolution and then drag and drop over into the new file from illustrator.

So you drag and drop a raster image in to a vector program. For what reason exactly?

also, at the size you are talking about printing you don't need it to be as high as 300 dpi.
the lager you set the format, the less dpi you need.

What are you kidding 

[venkman]

So you drag and drop a raster image in to a vector program. For what reason exactly?

for lots of reasons. for example, photoshop's not good at drawing nice vector curves, but i like to use it compose my work. i like the interface in photoshop more. if it's a logo or something i'd just keep it as a vector.

What are you kidding 

sounds a little funny doesn't it, but believe me - it's true. you only need to use high dpi for smaller things in print. magazines etc. then when you start to get bigger you can reduce the dpi.

this would work from 6' tall cabinets up to those massive billboards you see. if you walk up close to them they are actually quite low dpi. obviously the dpi would go down in relation to the increaced scale of the print, and also not go so low that it looks bad. it's true waveryder 

[waveryder]

Stop it your killing me
 

[venkman]

uh, ok buddy.

[venkman]

actually no, i think you need to learn the lesson here instead of offering your impressively intelligent " "  answers.

i'm not sure you get what 'm saying. because the side of a arcade cab is so big, you don't need to print at 300dpi. you could print at 150-200 and EASILY get great results.

let's do a quick google search for "dpi for lage scale print"
and we find the following:

About Printing and DPI
It is important to understand that dpi (dots per inch) is only a setting in the image file that tells the printer how to print the image - at higher or lower resolution.

here's where you think you know it all, and i agree with (for smaller scale printing)
More pixels = better printing resolution basically.

here's where you are missing the point:
About Large Format Printing
You can print as low as 5 dpi for billboards that are to be seen at a distance to achieve sizes up to 11.25 feet x 15.00 feet with a small image.

here's a link to an article that covers this:
http://creativecurio.com/2008/03/printing-large-format/
"What is the Ideal Resolution (for printing banners and large format prints)?
The printer will probably tell you to make your image resolutions between 72 and 150 dpi. "


and if you're still convinced you know it all and everyone else i've quoted here is wrong,
let's go ask wikipedia:
"Up to a point, printers with higher DPI produce clearer and more detailed output. "
and the page links to this page on 'the myth of dpi' (he relates ot to photography but also covers printing)
"the quality of output will be determined by ... the paper dimensions you have chosen "

im sure there are a load other resources out there that confirm this.
i'm not meaning to preach waveryder, but check yourself before you try and take the piss.

cheers tho. no beef! 

[waveryder]

Well if GOOGLE and WIKEPEDIA say your right you must be!
  

[Gatsu]

I work for a print shop....and I've printed about every file format you can print......Although I work with raster stuff mostly. Vector is another animal.

DPI is part of the equation. The higher, the better. Printing 150 can sometimes be good depending on the dimensions. But you can't change an images DPI from lower to higher.....otherwise its not pretty. Same with the images dimensions.

72dpi - internet quality.....no good.

150 dpi - some print by this resolution. It works pretty well for small stuff like business cards with alot of solid colors.

300+ dpi - nothing should really be printed below this. If anything...if you can get more....do it.


Dimensions are the 2nd part of the equation. (taking into account your images are 300 dpi or more)
You need the dimensions to either be the same size as what you need or larger in order for the image to look good. Even if you try to increase a smaller image at 300 DPI to a larger size, it can look bad.

Example. Lets say someone gives me a business card that is 3.5" x 2" and at 72 dpi. Its gonna look like crap. Because the images dimensions by default are only 252 x 144 pixels. Thats nothing.

Same image, but at 300 dpi is actually 1050 pixels by 600 pixels, but still 3.5" x 2". Which will work.

Both work together.

Try printing a 27" by 40" poster at 72 dpi and see what you get. Its not pretty. In photoshop, resolution in correlation with image dimensions are everything.

Another thing to consider is file format. JPEGs to print from are usually not good. It depends.
But .TIFF and .PNG are usually whats needed since those formats are uncompressed. Or you can use the PSD in a program like Adobe Indesign.

[Blanka]

There is also a big difference between type, lines and photo's. A photo will do fine in 2 time the raster lines/inch. So in when printing at 75 lines/inch (printing dot distance, ask the print-service), 150dpi photo's are great. But with type and linework (vector images) you can even see a difference between 300 and 600dpi. That's why you better work in Indesign, Illustrator, Freehand to make a composition of bitmaps, vector and text, as all parts are handled as they should, and you don't need to bloat everything to 600dpi bitmap.

On the other hand there is the overal scale. An eye can see maybe 10 million dots. So for sideart that is 1.8m high, an image of 5400x1800 pixels will be more than enough, even though it is only 76dpi.

[waveryder]

I think the point has been completly missed here. The OP has asked a question about "exporting" a piece of artwork into PShop for editing. In this situation the dpi size makes a huge difference. Lower dpi = lower quality of image it's that simple. The required image dpi at print time is dependant entirely on the output device. Lets face it most past generation "object" based large format printers use a best guess method for scaling output anyway. When combining images from different sources; dpi makes a huge difference. When creating raster artwork WYSIWYG so the higher the image resolution the better. Required Dpi when printing is different as this will come down to the capabilities at the printers dispossal, printing media and inks and has nothing to do with the resolution of the artwork. Sweeping statements and half understood theory about 'the myth of dpi' really need to be applicable to the situation.

Now which colour system should the OP be using CMYK or RGB? 

[venkman]

thanks for getting in on this Gatsu and Blanka, and for a proper reply waveryder.

i think we covered the question and the export problem was mostly resolved by good ol' drag and drop from one app to another.

just for the record i am a graphic and interactive designer, and though i work predominantly in digital i have done and still do a good amount of print work - and work with printers often.

just to finish what i was trying to say: in my experience a printer will often request artwork that is for a large scale print at a ratio of the final size. for example a large poster or billboard advert is  often created at 1/10th the dimensions of the final output, and at 300 dpi. then the printer will scale it up to the full print size, therefore reducing the dpi.

cmyk for print rgb for screen! haha   

[Stinks]

i think we covered the question and the export problem was mostly resolved by good ol' drag and drop from one app to another.

Yep.

I've just been enjoying the show since. lol

[Gatsu]

well just trying to help. Didnt mean to come off as an ass. If I did I apologize.

[Stinks]

Lets get this back onto a friendly path! 



So, I have a piece of art that I want to use....its already like 15" high (perfect size almost) but its only 72 DPI. I import it into my 300 dpi project and put it where I want and everything and it looks pretty good. Do you think it will be good enough for print?

I'm viewing the image at ~25% assuming thats close to the actual size it will be in real life (72 screen/300 print means, correct me if I'm wrong, the monitor enlarges everything by ~4x)and it looks pretty smooth.


 

[Gatsu]

zoom in 100%. that'll give you an idea of how pixelated the final image will be.

But if you think it looks good, print it and see what happens.

[waveryder]

Lets get this back onto a friendly path! 

Sorry Stinks, Venks and all readers. Could of nipped this one in the bud quicker. Just messin' about. You know how temperamental artists can be 

Didnt mean to come off as an ass. If I did I apologize.

No Gatsu just me being an ass.

Gatsu raises a good point. Isolate a section at 100% and print it out to see if there are any jaggies thats pretty much the only way to tell. The "deal" with all artwork is simply go with what your comfortable with. If you like the way it looks its PERFECT just like that!! After all your the one who will see it everyday 

[Stinks]

Printed a portion out on my companies xerox...a little jagged around an edge or two, but overall good enough for me.

I think I can clean up most of it. The trouble spots are hard to see due to the low contrast between the white background and the edges. I think I'll put a layer of black behind it to clean it up with.


Thanks again!

[venkman]

remember to post up a pic so we can see once it's done!

  guys.

[Stinks]

Will do.


I'm working on all the technical portions of it now (art and design) since the wife is still dead set against it.....but Christmas is coming soon.

[Gatsu]

Will do.


I'm working on all the technical portions of it now (art and design) since the wife is still dead set against it.....but Christmas is coming soon.

yeah. thats how its looking for my project too. "Donations" from family members around X-mas time. lol.