Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow

[SirPeale]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/markets/markets_newyork2/index.htm?cnn=yes

It's interesting that oil has dropped below $100 a barrel because of this.  But I somehow doubt that we'll see that in our gas tanks.

[punxrus]

Nope. OPEC will just either decrease or stop production and either keep prices where they are at or have them go up. It's all about supply and demand. The US demand has slowed immensely over the past year, so stopping production will only increase demand after a while. US needs to go Green, stay away from OPEC Oil and bring gas saving technology back state side! Yes...I'm talking to you Ford!

[grantspain]

nuclear to power industry and cities,solar for your hot water and street signs/lights,water and wind to give reserves in emergency(hell texas and louisiana could have been powered for a year this week)
we need to stop the wests reliance on arab oil,more nuclear power stations please-4000% cleaner than oil or gas

[Ummon]

There's a LOT of resistance by various groups (who seem very much like the vegie heads in behavior) to nuclear. Texas has the most wind power in the country and is building more. Stuff is happening. It just takes a while.

[JONTHEBOMB]

The main reason I want the US to avoid building a bunch of nuclear power plants is because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Also, where does all the nuclear waste go?

Underground in barrels that will contaminate our water supplies.

[ChadTower]

You're just not thinking.  Chernobyl was both the template disaster and the forward solution.  Where does all the waste go?  Chernobyl, of course.

[danny_galaga]

You're just not thinking.  Chernobyl was both the template disaster and the forward solution.  Where does all the waste go?  Chernobyl, of course.

 

not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...

[shmokes]

You only think your government is stable.  But it's only a matter of time until your people rise up and overthrow the government to put a stop to videogame censoring/banning.

[ChadTower]

If we put the nuclear waste in Australia where will we put our British dissidents?

[bishmasterb]

Nope. OPEC will just either decrease or stop production and either keep prices where they are at or have them go up. It's all about supply and demand. The US demand has slowed immensely over the past year, so stopping production will only increase demand after a while. US needs to go Green, stay away from OPEC Oil and bring gas saving technology back state side! Yes...I'm talking to you Ford!

Supply and demand have only been part of the problem. Many economists feel that the weak dollar and speculative investment demand have probably had more of an effect.

Ford is producing a 65mpg diesel vehicle, but it won't be coming to the States.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm?chan=autos_autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories

[ChadTower]

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.

[patrickl]

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.

This Ford uses half the amount of fuel of a regular car right? So even if the price of diesel is double that of gasoline, the fuel consumption would cost you the same. So that equasion only comes out comparable if you pay $1 per gallon of gasoline (and $2 for diesel).

[ChadTower]

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.

This Ford uses half the amount of fuel of a regular car right? So even if the price of diesel is double that of gasoline, the fuel consumption would cost you the same. So that equasion only comes out comparable if you pay $1 per gallon of gasoline (and $2 for diesel).

You're leaving out the additional cost of the car.  A small car like that here would normally cost maybe $10,000 less than the price in that article.  At least it did until this current period and people haven't even come close to making the mental adjustment to the compact low power cars being the pricey ones.  They're still trying to figure out why their 2 year old 8 cyl SUV they paid $38,000 for is now worth $7,500 in trade instead of the $25,000 they would have gotten 5 years ago.

[patrickl]

True, but I was responding to your comparison of mileage and "gasoline vs diesel" price difference. Indeed I'd say you'd save about $500 to maybe $1000 a year. So hardly worth the extra cost of the car. Depending on how much you drive obviously, but you won't be driving a car like this when you need to drive long distances.

Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline. So the fuel cost savings would be about double.

I don't trust diesel though. I still think it's filthy fuel. They just measure it the wrong way (total amount of soot in exhaust rather than a count of particles)

[M.Lanza]

Well, soot is made up of particles.

 

[ChadTower]

True, but I was responding to your comparison of mileage and "gasoline vs diesel" price difference. Indeed I'd say you'd save about $500 to maybe $1000 a year. So hardly worth the extra cost of the car. Depending on how much you drive obviously, but you won't be driving a car like this when you need to drive long distances.

Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline. So the fuel cost savings would be about double.

I don't trust diesel though. I still think it's filthy fuel. They just measure it the wrong way (total amount of soot in exhaust rather than a count of particles)

True on normal diesel... but there are diesel alternatives that run clean.  A car like this might be able to run on that unmodified.  For some reason here the BioDiesel industry seems focused on corn as the main source, which is just effing the food market over.  There is a small movement here to use kudzu instead.  The stuff grows like a foot a day and provides nearly as much raw carbohydrates as corn does - plus it grows anywhere that it is warm with little maintenance involved.  Ask someone from the southeast US.  The crap has taken over several states.  If we could start using that stuff as fuel...

[shardian]

Anyone else check their retirement account that can? 

[ChadTower]

Anyone else check their retirement account that can? 

I almost never look at it.  I get impatient about it when I do.  I manage better when I blindly drop a % in - it matches the max match my employer provides.

[shardian]

I also get the max company match. I am sorely tempted to just drop everything into money market to protect my money. Since I'm young, I don't have a ton of money in there. Some of my coworkers near retirement age are getting screwed though.

[ChadTower]

I also get the max company match. I am sorely tempted to just drop everything into money market to protect my money. Since I'm young, I don't have a ton of money in there. Some of my coworkers near retirement age are getting screwed though.

Age is the key.  Our accounts will bounce back.  This is all cyclical stuff.  The older people who don't already have their cash in super conservative stuff are going to have problems.

[RayB]

Underground in barrels that will contaminate our water supplies.

Yeah, let's continue to contaminate the air we all breathe instead. That's MUCH better.

Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.

[ChadTower]

Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.

Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.

[punxrus]

Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.

Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.

 

[JONTHEBOMB]

Yeah, let's continue to contaminate the air we all breathe instead. That's MUCH better.

Building some nuclear plants to provide power for people isn't bad, but I think the US should focus on solar, wind and other renewable energy resources.

[Ed_McCarron]

other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.

[patrickl]

other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.

I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

[SithMaster]

Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.

Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.

Just wait for the hippie protestors to arrive in force to shut the tiberium plants down.  There is no confirmed proof that tiberium is dangerous to humans or all living things.  Also those mutants were there already we swear.

[shmokes]

other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.

I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

I think he means that in 100 million years the rubber band you used that was a petroleum byproduct will have biodegraded and turned back into oil.  He's not serious.

[patrickl]

other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.

I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

I think he means that in 100 million years the rubber band you used that was a petroleum byproduct will have biodegraded and turned back into oil.  He's not serious.

Like I said, I will probably be called out on my lack of humor (ie I understand he's kidding). Still, that is not what renewable means.

[ChadTower]

patrickl's humour is not renewable.

[danny_galaga]

If we put the nuclear waste in Australia where will we put our British dissidents?

canada

[Singapura]

Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline

In Austria and the Chech Republic diesel is more expensive then gasoline. And don't forget the higher road tax for diesel cars in The Netherlands.

[Ed_McCarron]

other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.

I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

Yes, you will.   

In 100 million years, even you, Patrick, will be oil.  Rather humorless oil, but oil none the less.

[shmokes]

Dow lost another 450 points yesterday.   It's down almost 4000 points since a year ago.

[ChadTower]

canada

Canada isn't dissident.

[HaRuMaN]

canada

Canada isn't dissident.

Canada is like a loft apartment over a great party.  <stomp stomp stomp>  "Keep it down, eh?"

(-Robin Williams)

[punxrus]

canada

Canada isn't dissident.

Canada is like a loft apartment over a great party.  <stomp stomp stomp>  "Keep it down, eh?"

(-Robin Williams)

 

[ChadTower]

That's changing.  With the oil reserves Canada is sitting on... and the massive amount of untapped natural resources up there... the party is winding down and the downstairs residents keep asking the loft people for help cleaning up their mess.

[RayB]

Dow lost another 450 points yesterday.   It's down almost 4000 points since a year ago.

As far back as July, August or earlier, some people were already predicting an economic collapse to happen in September or as late as February 2009.  They predict the DOW reaching around 4500.

Grab your popcorn folks...

[ChadTower]

There are always "experts" giving projected drops and timeframes, most of them pretty severe.  Sooner or later someone was bound to be right about a big one.