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Author Topic: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow  (Read 5807 times)

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SirPeale

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Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« on: September 15, 2008, 05:55:33 pm »
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/markets/markets_newyork2/index.htm?cnn=yes

It's interesting that oil has dropped below $100 a barrel because of this.  But I somehow doubt that we'll see that in our gas tanks.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2008, 06:02:05 pm »
Nope. OPEC will just either decrease or stop production and either keep prices where they are at or have them go up. It's all about supply and demand. The US demand has slowed immensely over the past year, so stopping production will only increase demand after a while. US needs to go Green, stay away from OPEC Oil and bring gas saving technology back state side! Yes...I'm talking to you Ford!
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2008, 07:12:57 pm »
nuclear to power industry and cities,solar for your hot water and street signs/lights,water and wind to give reserves in emergency(hell texas and louisiana could have been powered for a year this week)
we need to stop the wests reliance on arab oil,more nuclear power stations please-4000% cleaner than oil or gas

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2008, 07:23:47 pm »
There's a LOT of resistance by various groups (who seem very much like the vegie heads in behavior) to nuclear. Texas has the most wind power in the country and is building more. Stuff is happening. It just takes a while.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2008, 08:19:36 pm »
The main reason I want the US to avoid building a bunch of nuclear power plants is because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Also, where does all the nuclear waste go?

Underground in barrels that will contaminate our water supplies. :dunno
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 11:02:18 pm by JONTHEBOMB »

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2008, 12:46:44 am »

You're just not thinking.  Chernobyl was both the template disaster and the forward solution.  Where does all the waste go?  Chernobyl, of course.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2008, 01:18:25 am »

You're just not thinking.  Chernobyl was both the template disaster and the forward solution.  Where does all the waste go?  Chernobyl, of course.


 ;D

not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 02:24:35 am by danny_galaga »


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2008, 08:53:14 am »
You only think your government is stable.  But it's only a matter of time until your people rise up and overthrow the government to put a stop to videogame censoring/banning.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2008, 08:55:02 am »

If we put the nuclear waste in Australia where will we put our British dissidents?

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 09:11:41 am »
Nope. OPEC will just either decrease or stop production and either keep prices where they are at or have them go up. It's all about supply and demand. The US demand has slowed immensely over the past year, so stopping production will only increase demand after a while. US needs to go Green, stay away from OPEC Oil and bring gas saving technology back state side! Yes...I'm talking to you Ford!
Supply and demand have only been part of the problem. Many economists feel that the weak dollar and speculative investment demand have probably had more of an effect.

Ford is producing a 65mpg diesel vehicle, but it won't be coming to the States.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_37/b4099060491065.htm?chan=autos_autos+--+lifestyle+subindex+page_top+stories
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 09:20:07 am »

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 09:24:52 am »

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.
This Ford uses half the amount of fuel of a regular car right? So even if the price of diesel is double that of gasoline, the fuel consumption would cost you the same. So that equasion only comes out comparable if you pay $1 per gallon of gasoline (and $2 for diesel).
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 09:33:13 am »

Diesel here is $1 more per gallon than regular gas.  Increase your mileage and take an instant huge gas price increase... it's a push.
This Ford uses half the amount of fuel of a regular car right? So even if the price of diesel is double that of gasoline, the fuel consumption would cost you the same. So that equasion only comes out comparable if you pay $1 per gallon of gasoline (and $2 for diesel).


You're leaving out the additional cost of the car.  A small car like that here would normally cost maybe $10,000 less than the price in that article.  At least it did until this current period and people haven't even come close to making the mental adjustment to the compact low power cars being the pricey ones.  They're still trying to figure out why their 2 year old 8 cyl SUV they paid $38,000 for is now worth $7,500 in trade instead of the $25,000 they would have gotten 5 years ago.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 10:22:14 am »
True, but I was responding to your comparison of mileage and "gasoline vs diesel" price difference. Indeed I'd say you'd save about $500 to maybe $1000 a year. So hardly worth the extra cost of the car. Depending on how much you drive obviously, but you won't be driving a car like this when you need to drive long distances.

Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline. So the fuel cost savings would be about double.

I don't trust diesel though. I still think it's filthy fuel. They just measure it the wrong way (total amount of soot in exhaust rather than a count of particles)
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 10:25:35 am »
Well, soot is made up of particles.

 :dunno
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 10:29:37 am »
True, but I was responding to your comparison of mileage and "gasoline vs diesel" price difference. Indeed I'd say you'd save about $500 to maybe $1000 a year. So hardly worth the extra cost of the car. Depending on how much you drive obviously, but you won't be driving a car like this when you need to drive long distances.

Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline. So the fuel cost savings would be about double.

I don't trust diesel though. I still think it's filthy fuel. They just measure it the wrong way (total amount of soot in exhaust rather than a count of particles)


True on normal diesel... but there are diesel alternatives that run clean.  A car like this might be able to run on that unmodified.  For some reason here the BioDiesel industry seems focused on corn as the main source, which is just effing the food market over.  There is a small movement here to use kudzu instead.  The stuff grows like a foot a day and provides nearly as much raw carbohydrates as corn does - plus it grows anywhere that it is warm with little maintenance involved.  Ask someone from the southeast US.  The crap has taken over several states.  If we could start using that stuff as fuel...

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 10:33:06 am »
Anyone else check their retirement account that can?  ;)

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 10:36:41 am »
Anyone else check their retirement account that can?  ;)


I almost never look at it.  I get impatient about it when I do.  I manage better when I blindly drop a % in - it matches the max match my employer provides.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 10:40:22 am »
I also get the max company match. I am sorely tempted to just drop everything into money market to protect my money. Since I'm young, I don't have a ton of money in there. Some of my coworkers near retirement age are getting screwed though.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2008, 10:43:50 am »
I also get the max company match. I am sorely tempted to just drop everything into money market to protect my money. Since I'm young, I don't have a ton of money in there. Some of my coworkers near retirement age are getting screwed though.


Age is the key.  Our accounts will bounce back.  This is all cyclical stuff.  The older people who don't already have their cash in super conservative stuff are going to have problems.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2008, 02:13:02 pm »
Underground in barrels that will contaminate our water supplies. :dunno
Yeah, let's continue to contaminate the air we all breathe instead. That's MUCH better.

Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2008, 02:16:05 pm »
Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.


Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2008, 02:16:56 pm »
Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.


Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.



 :laugh2: :laugh2:
Dude...Wait...What?!

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2008, 06:26:19 pm »
Yeah, let's continue to contaminate the air we all breathe instead. That's MUCH better.

Building some nuclear plants to provide power for people isn't bad, but I think the US should focus on solar, wind and other renewable energy resources.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2008, 09:55:13 pm »
other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2008, 10:04:06 pm »
other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.
I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2008, 10:27:03 pm »
Proper storage won't contaminate ground water. And there is much newer nuclear technology now where 90% of the radioactive material gets consumed. It's half-century old nuclear plant designs that create a lot of waste (consuming something like only 10%). So obviously any new plants shouldn't be designed on 1950's tech.


Seriously.  They run on Tiberium now.



Just wait for the hippie protestors to arrive in force to shut the tiberium plants down.  There is no confirmed proof that tiberium is dangerous to humans or all living things.  Also those mutants were there already we swear.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2008, 10:49:57 pm »
other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.
I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

I think he means that in 100 million years the rubber band you used that was a petroleum byproduct will have biodegraded and turned back into oil.  He's not serious.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2008, 04:03:02 am »
other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.
I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

I think he means that in 100 million years the rubber band you used that was a petroleum byproduct will have biodegraded and turned back into oil.  He's not serious.
Like I said, I will probably be called out on my lack of humor (ie I understand he's kidding). Still, that is not what renewable means.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2008, 07:43:33 am »

patrickl's humour is not renewable.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2008, 02:08:38 am »

If we put the nuclear waste in Australia where will we put our British dissidents?

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2008, 02:54:34 am »
Quote
Actually in Europe diesel is a lot cheaper than gasoline

In Austria and the Chech Republic diesel is more expensive then gasoline. And don't forget the higher road tax for diesel cars in The Netherlands.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 04:07:03 am by Singapura »
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2008, 05:28:01 am »
other renewable energy resources.

I hate that phrase.  Oil is renewable, you just have to wait longer.
I know I'll probably be called out on my lack of humor again, but "renewable" means that you consume less than is produced (or formed). Since we consume more oil than is produced, it's considered "non-renewable".

Yes, you will.   :P

In 100 million years, even you, Patrick, will be oil.  Rather humorless oil, but oil none the less.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2008, 08:31:27 am »
Dow lost another 450 points yesterday. :'(  It's down almost 4000 points since a year ago.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2008, 08:43:55 am »

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2008, 09:15:07 am »
canada
Canada isn't dissident.

Canada is like a loft apartment over a great party.  <stomp stomp stomp>  "Keep it down, eh?"

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2008, 01:08:38 pm »
canada
Canada isn't dissident.

Canada is like a loft apartment over a great party.  <stomp stomp stomp>  "Keep it down, eh?"

(-Robin Williams)

 :laugh2:
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2008, 01:21:40 pm »

That's changing.  With the oil reserves Canada is sitting on... and the massive amount of untapped natural resources up there... the party is winding down and the downstairs residents keep asking the loft people for help cleaning up their mess.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2008, 02:10:38 pm »
Dow lost another 450 points yesterday. :'(  It's down almost 4000 points since a year ago.
As far back as July, August or earlier, some people were already predicting an economic collapse to happen in September or as late as February 2009.  They predict the DOW reaching around 4500.

Grab your popcorn folks...
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2008, 02:12:23 pm »

There are always "experts" giving projected drops and timeframes, most of them pretty severe.  Sooner or later someone was bound to be right about a big one.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2008, 03:16:44 pm »

There are always "experts" giving projected drops and timeframes, most of them pretty severe.  Sooner or later someone was bound to be right about a big one.
Lol yeah.. There was this dutch stock "guru" who kept predicting a huge stock crash during the 90's. Of course that was when the stocks were skyrocketing. At the beginning of 2001 when things finally started going bad, the idiot actually claimed that he was "right all along". The Nasdaq had risen 10 fold, the Dow 4 fold and the dutch stock exchange was 6 times as high.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2008, 03:31:59 pm »
nuclear to power industry and cities,solar for your hot water and street signs/lights,water and wind to give reserves in emergency(hell texas and louisiana could have been powered for a year this week)
we need to stop the wests reliance on arab oil,more nuclear power stations please-4000% cleaner than oil or gas
+1

But it won't happen as there are too much interests at various people/companies/countries in the oil business.

Anyone ever thought of where we would get our plastics from if we've burnt all of it up ? And how about food  ? Artificial fertilizars......if they become unavailable, the world will have some serious food problems.

We need to stop burning it ASAP.

What I am happy about is that this financial mess the US got themselves into, again makes the dollar go the right direction (for me that is :D).
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 03:40:51 pm by Level42 »

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2008, 08:11:38 pm »
Apparently unregulated oil speculators aren't helping the gas price situation.  Dubbed the "Enron loophole."
I'll exercise patience when you stop exercising stupidity.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2008, 08:52:12 pm »
nuclear to power industry and cities,solar for your hot water and street signs/lights,water and wind to give reserves in emergency(hell texas and louisiana could have been powered for a year this week)
we need to stop the wests reliance on arab oil,more nuclear power stations please-4000% cleaner than oil or gas
+1

But it won't happen as there are too much interests at various people/companies/countries in the oil business.

Anyone ever thought of where we would get our plastics from if we've burnt all of it up ? And how about food  ? Artificial fertilizars......if they become unavailable, the world will have some serious food problems.

We need to stop burning it ASAP.

What I am happy about is that this financial mess the US got themselves into, again makes the dollar go the right direction (for me that is :D).

I'm not happy.  Just wait for the Americans to bring shoddy business practices over to the Netherlands.

I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet.  This country has become so ridiculous it isn't funny.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2008, 09:00:00 pm »
and the massive amount of untapped natural resources up there...

Beer and funny hats are natural resources?
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2008, 11:02:35 pm »
Beer

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HGPh8Hjyg8[/youtube]


I couldn't resist. :)

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2008, 03:50:44 am »

I'm not happy.  Just wait for the Americans to bring shoddy business practices over to the Netherlands.

I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet.  This country has become so ridiculous it isn't funny.

well, the dutch brought you the stock exchange and newspapers- two of the shoddiest businesses around  ;D


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2008, 08:41:31 am »
I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet. 


You've been revolting for quite a while now. 


 ;D

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2008, 08:59:57 am »
and the massive amount of untapped natural resources up there...

Beer and funny hats are natural resources?


Don't question the beer.

And yeah, Canada is practically unmined and sitting on the some of the largest unused oil reserves in this hemisphere. Western Canada is shipping so much oil to the US right now that new industries are popping up around just that.  It was already supplying most of the lumber the US gets, now it is supplying oil and minerals too.  The Canadian dollar being worth more than ours isn't only because of the sinking US$.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2008, 09:32:15 am »
And yeah, Canada is practically unmined and sitting on the some of the largest unused oil reserves in this hemisphere

Duh.  They're all too busy drinking beer to drill for it.  One of these days, there'll be a conversation like this:

"So, what should we do today, eh?"

"Drink beer."

"No, I hear we have lots of oil.  We should figure out a way to get it out of the ground."

"Take off - that'd be work.  Lets just get drunk, OK?"

"Wait, I got an idea!"
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2008, 09:56:02 am »
You don't know oilmen very well... they can do both, you know.  A few gallons of crude pays for a whole lotta beer.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2008, 10:07:04 am »
The main reason I want the US to avoid building a bunch of nuclear power plants is because of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

Also, where does all the nuclear waste go?

Underground in barrels that will contaminate our water supplies. :dunno

Hate to tell you this, but "Chernobyl" is the weakest argument possible when arguing against nuclear power plants.  The waste issue is a legitimate argument, but Chernobyl and Three Mile Island (TMI) are not.

Chernobyl was analagous to having an arc-welding business in a building made out of dynamite.  It was only a matter of time before it went.  The U.S.S.R. knew about it, the entire world knew about it, and every nuclear agency on the planet knew that it was a time bomb.  The design of the plant was such that the U.S.S.R. could extract the plutonium from the spent fuel while keeping the reactor running thus giving them a continuous supply of plutonium for their weapons manufacturing.  There was no containment for the reactor and the night of the accident all safety systems were shut down to see how long they could keep the reactor going in the case of a power loss.  The problem is that the "experiment" was conducted over mulitiple shifts and some crazily stupid things that were done by the people in the first ship weren't fully told to those in the second shift.  The physical design of the reactor was also a design deemed inherently unsafe due to the materials it was constructed out of, and once the nuclear reaction inside starting getting out of control there was no way to stop it.  The core completely melted, the hydrogen gas buildup inside the core caused a massive explosion, and that entire part of the world was forever doomed thanks to the U.S.S.R.'s greater concern of producing weapons grade plutonium rather than safe energy.

The design of the Chernobyl power plant is a design that is not allowed by any regulatory agency.  One reason is that it allows for mass production of plutonium, and the other is that it is inherently unsafe.  The TMI incident that occured here in the US was in a pressurized-water-reactor (PWR) which, by design, has an immense number of safeguards.  The reactor core itself is setup so that in the case of a system failure, the control rods which absorb neutrons and stop a nuclear reaction will smother the core.  (This wasn't the case in the Chernobyl incident).  In addition, the TMI reactor's safety systems are set up in such a way that if there is an issue with the safety system, the reactor is shut down.  Nuclear Reactors in the US are surrounded by a MASSIVE steel and concrete containment shell which has been tested to be impervious to missile attacks.  In the case of an ultimate catastrophe of every safety system in the design, the containment building keeps everything inside.

At TMI, there was no measurable increase in radioactivity outside of the reactor building.  The incident resulted in damage to the reactor core that could not be repaired safely, but the area wasn't flooded with radioactivity and in fact the other reactors at the plant were in action until about 10 years ago.  The designs of power plants not designed for plutonium production are incredibly safe.

Now as for the nuclear waste, that is an issue.  As nuclear power plant designs get better, the waste of nuclear fuel becomes less and less.  Still, you are going to have a great deal of nuclear waste that you can't do anythign with for hundreds of years because the daughter products of nuclear fission retain their intense radioactivity for quite some time.  (Uranium itself, while radioactive, isn't all that bad.  It's half-life is so long and it's radiation is so weak that it's not a threat at all.  It's the daughter products like radon, cesium-137, etc. etc. that are immensely radioactive in terms of activity and energy.  The waste can't be processed until those products have reduced).

I believe that France has close to 80% of it's electricity generated through nuclear power plants.  It'd be interesting to see what they do with their waste. 

Here in the USA, you will never see nuclear power gain acceptance.  Too many people just aren't bright enough to realize that radioactivity and nuclear power aren't things to fear, but things to respect.  VERY few people know that the accident at Chernobyl simply is not physically possible here in the USA with the plant designs we have.  They also have this internal fear (thank you mass media) of anything radioactive.  Christ, I go home every day and sitting in one of my cabinets is 10 grams of pure uranium metal.  It's not that radioactive.  (Granted, it is sitting inside a thick walled lead can as I do respect radioactivity, and it makes a geiger counter go crazy when it's near it, but the energy given off is quite weak).  You get FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more radiation exposure from being in a plane than I do from my uranium.  (The thin walled aluminum shell of the plane provides little to no protection from the cosmic rays bombarding down on the earth that you typically don't get exposed to).

Anyway, I think nuclear power is a good way to generate electricity (and it's fairly cheap.  My electricity is generated from nuclear power and the electric bill has never been a problem for me), but until the common public can grow up a bit and learn something about nuclear power, and we can find a proper method for dealing with the waste, we'll never see it here in the US.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2008, 11:05:42 am »
If only Americans were as intelligent as Frenchmen . . .
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2008, 11:16:18 am »
If only Americans were as intelligent as Frenchmen . . .

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2008, 11:16:44 am »
If only Americans were as intelligent as Frenchmen . . .


...methinks he forgot his sarcasm tags. 

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2008, 12:52:56 pm »
Hate to tell you this, but "Chernobyl" is the weakest argument possible when arguing against nuclear power plants.  The waste issue is a legitimate argument, but Chernobyl and Three Mile Island (TMI) are not.

I agree, I'm not afraid of Chernobyl happening in the US.

But I'd be worried about it happening in Iran, but that's a different argument/thread.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2008, 10:34:55 pm »
Hate to tell you this, but "Chernobyl" is the weakest argument possible when arguing against nuclear power plants.  The waste issue is a legitimate argument, but Chernobyl and Three Mile Island (TMI) are not.

I must admit nuclear energy is sounding better and better.  Right now the only thing that bugs me about nuclear energy is it's not renewable.  There is a ton of uranium left to mine, but what happens when we run out?  I believe if the world heads down the nuclear power road, we will never look back.  Solar, wind and other renewable energy sources will be passed by for cheap nuclear energy.  Then slowly nuclear power prices will start to rise, uranium will be harder to find and we will end up in a situation similar to the oil one we are currently in.  (Note: I realize we will all be long long long dead by the time we run out of uranium to mine.)

Quote from: wiki nuclear power
Reprocessing can potentially recover up to 95% of the remaining uranium and plutonium in spent nuclear fuel, putting it into new mixed oxide fuel. This produces a reduction in long term radioactivity within the remaining waste, since this is largely short-lived fission products, and reduces its volume by over 90%. Reprocessing of civilian fuel from power reactors is currently done on large scale in Britain, France and (formerly) Russia, soon will be done in China and perhaps India, and is being done on an expanding scale in Japan. The full potential of reprocessing has not been achieved because it requires breeder reactors, which are not yet commercially available. France is generally cited as the most successful reprocessor, but it presently only recycles 28% (by mass) of the yearly fuel use, 7% within France and another 21% in Russia.

I wonder if France and other countries will decide to buy the breeder reactors when they are available.  I would fully support nuclear energy as a temporary solution to the energy crisis if nuclear waste is reprocessed as much as possible and any leftovers are stored properly. 

Christ, I go home every day and sitting in one of my cabinets is 10 grams of pure uranium metal.

I am curious why you have 10 grams of pure uranium metal in your home.  Are you an element collector?

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2008, 07:34:14 pm »
Christ, I go home every day and sitting in one of my cabinets is 10 grams of pure uranium metal.

I am curious why you have 10 grams of pure uranium metal in your home.  Are you an element collector?


Bingo.   ;D  Hence my avatar.  The avatar is of the four allotropes of phosphorus.  (From left to right: White, Red, Violet, Black).  That image was actually used in a textbook, and I recently sold the rights to an image of sodium metal that I took to another publisher.  I've been collecting elements for about ten years now and have a sample of every single non radioactive element in its pure form.  I also have the Uranium and Thorium samples, a radium based watch hand, a promethium based watch hand, some thorium oxide powder which generates radon gas in tiny amounts (more helium than radium, but it is a sample of radon), an americium button from a smoke detector, a tritium key chain, and some natural uranium ore which has miniscule amounts of other radioactive elements in there.

The elements have always facinated me because EVERYTHING in the entire universe is made out of them.  It's incredible.  The collection has taken quite a bit of time to amass and I've also been adding more of each sample and upgrading lower quality samples to better quality ones as funds allow.  (I have a 5-gram sample of every alkali metal in their clean, shiny, unoxidized forms).  I've got many of my samples uploaded various places on the web.  If anybody ever wants to see a photo of one of the samples, just let me know and I'll try and get one for you.

With regards to running out of nuclear fuel, that's not a problem.  There are thorium based nuclear reactors (I think many are in use in India due to the massive amount of thorium they have) which actually produce MORE nuclear fuel than they consume!  At the end of each fuel cycle, the spent fuel can be removed and then the fissile products can be extracted and re-used.  That basically gives us an infinite amount of nuclear material to "burn".
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2008, 08:27:00 pm »
not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...

Why not Australia?  what's in the middle of the country anyway?


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2008, 09:37:32 pm »
I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet. 


You've been revolting for quite a while now. 


 ;D

Darn.   :applaud:

The problem with all the good ideas for generating electricity is they won't allow for the same level of price gouging as the current oil market.

Also the problem with Chernobyl isn't the nuclear fallout but the C-Consciousness.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2008, 10:44:34 pm »
I've read through many websites of people who lived in and around the area, or still work in the general area.  It's really odd seeing all the photos.  It is indeed a modern Pompeii as everything in that city, and the few surrounding towns, is exactly as it was on that tragic April day in 1986.  Reading through the story of how it all happened, I can't believe the level of stupidity of the people running the place, then I remembered that it was 1980's USSR and it all made sense.
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2008, 12:11:23 am »
I've read through many websites of people who lived in and around the area, or still work in the general area.  It's really odd seeing all the photos.  It is indeed a modern Pompeii as everything in that city, and the few surrounding towns, is exactly as it was on that tragic April day in 1986. 
Ya, but all of those anomalies and mutated animals sure are making it tough for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.S. to make a living there.

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2008, 05:14:06 am »
not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...

Why not Australia?  what's in the middle of the country anyway?



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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2008, 09:29:33 am »
not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...

Why not Australia?  what's in the middle of the country anyway?

Ayers Rock


Sounds like a good place to dump the world's nuke trash.


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2008, 03:07:05 am »
not so funny, some of the conservatives in australia want to entice people to ship their radioactive waste here. we are the oldest continent, and the most stable geologically...

edit: and politically stable too, that is an important consideration i guess...

Why not Australia?  what's in the middle of the country anyway?

Ayers Rock


Sounds like a good place to dump the world's nuke trash.




well, i believe there are some great spots in the US too. but its funny, whoever you ask, they say 'its a great idea, but not in my back yard'  ;)

also, the UK tested nukes in australia in the 50's and we are still smarting from that, since effectively no one asked us. the father of a woman i knew died of radiation related cancer from when he was in the navy.

I can see the irony in it. the state i come from (well, its actually a territory) is one of the biggest suppliers of uranium in the world. we just dont want it back  ;D


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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2008, 03:51:14 am »
I can see the irony in it. the state i come from (well, its actually a territory) is one of the biggest suppliers of uranium in the world. we just dont want it back  ;D
Yeah I was thinking the same. Can't they just shove it back in the same place?  :P
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ChadTower

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2008, 07:33:41 am »
I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet. 


You've been revolting for quite a while now. 


 ;D

Darn.   :applaud:


I can't take credit.  That's the oldest joke in Mel Brooks' repertoire.

protokatie

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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2008, 07:09:40 pm »
I just can't believe we haven't revolted yet. 


You've been revolting for quite a while now. 


 ;D

Darn.   :applaud:


I can't take credit.  That's the oldest joke in Mel Brooks' repertoire.

Sire! The peasants! They're revolting!


They sure ARE!

Loved that movie ;D
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Re: Massive 500 Point Drop @ the Dow
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2008, 02:55:20 am »

markets are getting shakier. for once im in the right position. ill keep saving my cash for another year or so. unless we go post-apocalyptic, the stock markets will be up and at em in that time once again. hell, even now there are people still making money. even with a global recession, ill finds me some bargains (",)


ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981