Problem with Harbor Freight Rotary Tool

[massive88]

About 2-3 weeks ago I bought this from Harbor Freight:  http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92880

After charging it, it was a champ doing what I needed it to do.  I cut off the ends of 3 screws, then grinded them flush to my surface.  Worked just fine.

Then a week later I pick it up to use it again, and the battery is toast.  Thats odd, it shouldnt drain just sitting there but whatever, so I charge it overnight.

Next day, it fires up and works great, for about 30 seconds.  After that it gets weak, and has no power.  I can grind it to a halt easily when trying to cut something.

So I have to plug it in for a half hour to use it for 15-30 seconds, then rinse and repeat.  I have yet to use it for more than a 30s no matter how long I let it recharge.  I takes me all day to do the same 3 screw cut and grind that I did in minutes the first time.

Now Im not expecting top quality when I pay $30 for a rotatry tool, but this cant be the expected performance.

I no longer have the receipt, should I try to bring it back to Harbor Freight and explain the problem?  Has anyone had experience bringing things back there?  Or is it just a waste of my time and I should go buy a corded rotary tool?  This was the first thing I have bought from them, and so far I am very underwhelmed.

[KDOG]

It is there brand so I wouldn't see a problem with exchanging it for the same.

[facesmiths]

I know some one who has a dad that insists on buying from these types of stores and everything he gets tool wise is inferiour so I would say just go with a real dremel or royobi though I would stick with dremel. my complaint on dremel is they changed their design so now I cant get a replacement for the minimill I built to hold it.

you could just go with a real rotary tool made for metal work (gunsmithing, jewelry making that sort of thing) they are called a foredom though you can can pay quite a bit for one so if you are not seriously going to use the tool then I would say dremel.  But it is what I am getting as soon as I have the money for one.

[Xiaou2]

 It seems that Harbor Freight uses inferior battery technology.   That is... unless they
are just plain selling used batteries as new.  (or selling rejects)   Hard to say really.

 I had a similar problem with their regular rechargeable AA's.   Wouldnt last for crap
compared to standard brand name rechargeables.


 Btw - I do have one of their cheap corded dremels and it works just fine.

[ChadTower]

HF is great for a lot of things... small electric tools like this isn't one of them.  The rotary tool is such a great piece of awesomeness that it is absolutely worth buying a good one.  I use mine all the time on all sorts of random things. 

In short, it's worth spending for a Dremel.

[facesmiths]

not saying you never get anything good from harbor freight just that it is more hit and miss type of buying. if you are the lucky sort then go for it. as for exchanges I dont think they would give any trouble just that you might spend a lot in gas going back and forth you know. and yeah the guy I was talking about has had a lot more luck with corded tools from there than the cordless ones. again though if you are going to use lightly it does not matter much but with a hand rotary tool I think you will find it useful in so many ways that you might want to look into one that has replaceable bearings and bushings cause you will not want to buy a new unit every time those go out. That is the thing about the foredom is that it is entirely rebuild able and they have not changed the design nor will they as far as I know (and it is waaaay more powerful and versatile. up to 1/4 inch collets and they have everything in 1/32nd increments down to 1/32" collets) down side to a foredom is that they do not make a battery powered version so...

oh and if you are looking for affordable stuff the cheapest place I know of to get quality is:
 http://www.wttool.com/
unfortunately there are only I thin 7 locations nation wide thus far?

but you can get anything you need there. even big mills and lathes

[Chadwick]

Get a Dremel.  When it comes to power tools, you get what you pay for.  If you pay 30 bucks for a tool that HF buys by the boatload  from China....  well, set your expectations low.

[Xiaou2]

 You think Dremels are made in America ?!

 China makes plenty of high quality (expensive) things that we use or have used in
our lifetime.   

 Just like anywhere else in the world... there are the good manufactures, and the bad.


 And Ill restate, the Corded Dremel from HF that I have works great.  Ive had
it for years.


 However,  I will say,  that its not the most used tool in my shop.   Dremel tools
are mainly used for tiny work... as for example... you are not going to be cutting thick
steel pipes with those tiny 1" cutting disc.   It would take you forever.  (as well as
needed several of those discs)   You also arnt going to Polish an entire silver vase
with it either.   Youd need a ton of those tiny buffing wheels... and it would take
something like an hour to do a single pass on a small vase.

 For those, you would instead use a buffing machine (or fullsize buffing wheel attached
to a drill press)... and to cut thick metal:  either a metal cutting bandsaw,
a Fiberglass wheel for your tablesaw or grinder,  a plasma cutter, etc.

 Dremels are more or less useless with the exception of tiny things.. and or
where you cant easily get into tight areas with larger tools (and or are too lazy to
take everything apart)

 The attachments are ridiculsly overpriced as well.   Especially considering how long
they will last.   Luckily HF sells them dirt cheap - as they should be.

[Chadwick]

I sell industrial tools for a living.  I can get into a debate about the quality of tools that comes out of China if you would like.  Dremels are made in China?  Pretty sure Dremel is owned by Robert Bosch GmbH.. a German company who bought Dremel in the 90's.  Prior to that, they were made in Wisconsin (in America!).  No not everything made in China is crap.  When it is made in China AND comes with a price point that low?  it is probably crap.


Do you think you're going to get a good quality tool that costs 30 dollars after distributor's markup?

Don't mean to sound like a dick, but I see this daily.  People want the cheapest possible price, then complain when the $20 tool doesn't perform like the $100 tool...DUH!

[Xiaou2]

 I never said that HF tools were on par with higher priced tools.    In fact, many of
their tools have some sort of defect to them... hence their price.

 However,  it ticks me off to see wide sweeping generalizations such as
 
"If it came from China,  its Garbage".

 Its just plain ignorance.


 Ohh, and BTW,  from what Ive read.. the Ipod is made in Chinese factories.
The high cost is passed to the slave wage workers.  Its mostly pocketed by big
corporate fatcats.

 The high quality, is merely an issue of good design, and good management.

--- edit ----

 From further research:


Pods are made in Longhua,China.

In fact, the town in which they are manufactured is referred to as "iPod City". There are even concerns about the working conditions for the people who work there, according to a news article in Businessweek.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/c...

    * 2 years ago

Source(s):
http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&...
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news...

http://www.idont.com/

[HaRuMaN]

However,  it ticks me off to see wide sweeping generalizations such as
 
"If it came from China,  its Garbage".

 Its just plain ignorance.

Who said that?  No one said that.

[shardian]

The main reason HF is cheap is because their tools have a marketing budget of ZERO. They pass that savings directly to the buyer.

[massive88]

Don't mean to sound like a dick, but I see this daily.  People want the cheapest possible price, then complain when the $20 tool doesn't perform like the $100 tool...DUH!

I appreciate the discussion, but seeing as I am the original buyer, lets not put words into my mouth.  I never expected the $30 HF rotary to compete with a $100 Dremel.  I however, have a very minimal and small scale use for a rotary tool.  As I stated originally, the HF Rotary did it perfectly and beautifully on the initial charge.  In fact I have no problems with the tool itself, only with the battery.

I do not think however, it is an unreasonable expectation, for the battery to
A) Hold some amount of a full charge when not in use for a week
B) Not run out of power after sufficient charging in 30 seconds of use

If you think those two expectations are ones that should be reserved for Dremels or similar quality tools, I think thats ridiculous.

[HaRuMaN]

For $14 extra, you could have had this.

[massive88]

For $14 extra, you could have had this.

Apparently its even cheaper, its $39.99 at my local Lowes.

At the time I bought the HF one, the cheapest Dremel in store was $70, I know because I looked at Lowes first, then went to HF.

Again Ill stand by that my intention would be at most to get 1 hour total of work out of the tool in its lifetime, something I thought the HF should be capable of.  But apparently I was wrong, or I got more of a lemon than should be expected, even with a $30 price tag.

[scotthh]

 Ohh, and BTW,  from what Ive read.. the Ipod is made in Chinese factories.
The high cost is passed to the slave wage workers.  Its mostly pocketed by big
corporate fatcats.

 The high quality, is merely an issue of good design, and good management.

[rant]
What's high quality about an iPod? The fact that the supposedly non-user-replaceable battery dies after 2 years and you're supposed to throw the whole thing away and buy a new one?  I am amused by this one the box: "Designed by Apple in California   Assembled in China" The fact that the thing is meant to be disposable is California's fault, not China's.

I recently purchased a bunch of interior flood lamps. Both the Phillips and GE bulbs are made in China. I had about a 20% dead-on-arrival ratio. Phillips immediately sent me new ones. GE sent me a $10 coupon. While back at Home Depot, I shook the bulbs, I would guess almost 1/2 the bulbs were dead. I had to make up a 3 pack from others, as I couldn't find one with 3 good bulbs. Is this due to shoddy manufacturing? Shipping? Or some dolt dropping the pallet? I don't know. But the manufacturers are willing to deal with it (and replacing dead ones no-questions-asked) because people will only buy the cheapest bulbs on the shelf.
[/rant]

As long as we want cheaper and cheaper goods, manufacturers (and retailers) will seek out cheaper manufacturing. After shipping a $30 rotary tool 1/2 way across the world, leaving profits for the manufacturer, the importer and the retailer, how much could it have cost to make? Corners had to be cut.

It is my experience that top-of-the-line stuff is made in the home country of the maker, with cheaper stuff made where labor and production costs are cheaper. For example camera equipment: my more expensive camera and lenses were made in Japan. Cheaper lenses and accessories were made in China, my latest camera was made in Thailand. That said, the best (and cheapest) lens available is the 50mm, mine was made in China, cost me $90 and although the fit and finish is inferior to the top-of-the-line lens, it takes as good pictures as any $900 made-in-Japan lens (but doesn't zoom).

[rant #2]
If you have a problem with slave wage workers, shouldn't we have a bigger issue with the Communist Party of China than "corporate fatcats"?
[/rant]

[mcdubbin]

to answer the question at hand, It never hurts to shoot them a email and just see what they say.


steering from being off topc here......

[padstack]

Just take it in and explain.  If they refuse, buy a new one, save reciept and take crap one back for refund.  If it really is like you explain, you aren't screwing anyone, just getting a replacement.  If it craps out too, you're pretty much out of luck.  I own a ton of orange tools.  NEver had a real problem wiht them or at least exchanging.

If I made my living on them, then yeah I'd buy higher quality to avoid down time.  I don't.  I have a sawzall that I bought from them that has survived some of the most damage you've ever seen one go through and it runs like a champ.  Just MO, but they've served me well thus far.

[Chadwick]

Hi guys

I've been in Atlanta at the International Woodworking Fair for the past 4 days and haven't had a chance to revisit this thread until now.

First, let me say that I am sorry if I have offended anyone by my previous posts.  I had no malicious intent and was not trying to pick any fights, so I apologize if anyone was offended.  I have been helped by so many people on these forums, and I just want to give back with knowledge that I specialize in.  You will find most of my posts are in the woodworking forum because I spent 10 years as a residential construction supervisor.  During that 10 years, I supervised over 250 projects and had the opportunity to become a very competent carpenter.  I am a licensed builder in the state of Michigan.  A few years ago, the new construction market took a nosedive nationwide.  West Michigan was hit very hard and I found myself with less and less work.  This precipitated my decision to get out of the construction business and find a new career.

I went to work for a friend at a company called Active Machine and Tool as a sales and service technician.  Active Machine and Tool is a company that distributes, manufactures, and services (sharpens) industrial woodworking tools.  We manufacture our own line of solid carbide CNC tooling and also fabricate custom tools such as saw blades, profiled inserts, carbide-tipped router bits with custom profiles, custom shaper cutters, and many other custom tools.  Active has been around for over 50 years.  There are maybe 3 or 4 shops in the entire United States that have the capabilities, knowledge, services, and products that we have under one roof.  Our customer base is world wide and includes everything from the hobbyist to 4 out of 5 of the world's largest office furniture manufacturers.

I'm not writing this to shill for my company, but rather to establish my experience and credentials when I speak of such things.

To the OP: I never meant to imply that you were wrong in your complaints.  You tool is defective and is clearly NOT working as intended.  I meant my comment about the $20/$100 tool as a generalization, and not about you specifically.  I acknowledge that it reads as though I am referring to you.  I apologize, I should have expressed myself more clearly.

I also did not intend to insult any Chinese members of our online community.  I don't dislike Chinese people and believe it or not I have a high appreciation for many aspects of Chinese culture.  I apologize if I offended you.

That said, there are some things about Chinese manufacturing practices that are not just my opinion; they are fact.  I am not saying these things to pick a fight.  These are not my personal beliefs, they are well known and well documented facts.

I just returned from something called IWF2008.  That is the International Woodworking Fair.  It is held every 2 years and is the single biggest trade show in the world for all aspects of the woodworking industry.  My company was an exhibitor in the show and I spent 10 hours a day for 4 days at the show.

At an IWF show a few years back, there were an uncharacteristically large number of Chinese who attended the show.  They took many many photographs of the products at the show.  A year or so after this happened, a lot of manufacturers found EXACT REPLICAS of their tools appear on the market with one small difference... they had "MADE IN CHINA" on them. (country of origin must appear on all imported products).  These were not subtle copies; they were straight up duplicates.  In some cases, right down to the packaging and custom cases/boxes that the tools were in.  Consequently, photography is no longer allowed at IWF shows. 

One of the companies we distribute for, a U.S. company that makes high quality boring bits, was one of the victims of this.  The owner of the company told me in person, how a customer had called her and complained that they were breaking bits left and right and were very unhappy with the product they received.  She told them to send them to her and they would examine the bits and send the customer new ones.  When she got the bits they appeared to be genuine right down to the custom wooden box that this set of counterbores came in.  Then they found the made in China stamp and could not believe what they were looking at.

This is just one example.  You can find many more with a little googling of your own if you wish.  The Ipod example is not a good one because those are manufactured to Apples specifications, using products and components specified by Apple as well.  That example is simply subcontracted labor.

What I am referring to is products designed (I use that term VERY loosely) and manufactured in China by Chinese companies that are knock-offs of established products.  The HF rotary tool is a clear and simple knock-off of a Dremel; a tool that was designed and manufactured in Wisconsin, U.S.A.  When I say that HF is buying them "by the boatload from China", I mean that quite literally.  They are made with inferior (cheaper) components to inferior (cheaper) standards so that an ethically-challenged distributor (HF) can flip them to the end user at an inferior (cheaper) price.  They don't care if 20-30% fail.  They know that even if 20-30% fail, only a percentage of THAT percentage will actually seek restitution.  They'll just ship you another one and still be ahead.  Why will they still be ahead?  Because  of low overhead costs such as not spending a lot on marketing and advertising, buying in bulk "by the boatload" to get the cheapest possible per-unit cost, selling direct to the end user and not having to sell at a discount to retailers.  Their profit margin is so good that they could probably send you 4 replacements before it actually starts to cost them money.  It is simple math to them; and the math says that even with a 20-30 percent defective product rate, they're still going to make money.

Send that rotary tool back because it is clearly defective.  Maybe the next one will last 10 years, but it might last 10 days as well.  That's the risk you take with a $30 tool that probably cost the manufacturer less than 10 bucks to make.  They are betting you'll just say "Oh well, it was only 30 bucks and it's not worth the hassle".

I'll finish the way I started; When it comes to good tools, you get what you pay for.  The three biggest factors that contribute to achieving good quality results when constructing something (anything), is to use good quality tools, to use the proper tools for the application, and operator (craftsman) knowledge and skill.

[massive88]

Just to update, this weekend I finally got a chance to take it back, with no receipt I walked in with the tool, battery, and charger.  Manager got a new box, broke it open and swapped out my parts, without checking credit card or anything.  Like I said, I didnt have the receipt.

Had a short use of it yesterday, dont know yet if I will have the same problem as my original one, both worked just fine on the first charge.  It was great that the manager was willing to swap it out without any real hassle though, Ill give them that.  I dont think Ill by any other wireless tool from HF, no matter how minimal my needs are.

[DaOld Man]

If what Chadwick is saying is true, and I have no reason or data to dispute him, then I can only imagine how much landfill is being taken up by these practices. Not to mention the natural resources being wasted.
I dont buy a lot of stuff from HF, but I did buy some wood clamps from them. (The ratchet type). It didnt take a lot of use until they either broke or just came apart. Into the trash they went because they were too cheap to travel 30 miles to return, and I couldnt think of any other use for them.
You have to watch what you get from Walmart too. I bought a bag of assorted clamps (spring type) from them.
Some of the clamps broke while holding the two pieces of wood together. One of the jaws breaks and goes flying away. More landfill and a disgusted Old Man.

[massive88]

I had a clamp from HF break as well. 

The trigger-handle is held to the casing by plastic tabs.  I guess my kung-fu grip overstressed the tabs and the handle snapped right off.

I bought some #10x1" bolts, and drilled a hole through the casing and threaded the handle back on through the bolt, so now the handle is bearing on steel.  It may still eventually have ductile failure if the bolt bites into the wall of the casing in bearing, but its a much stronger design, and thus far has worked great for me.  And it wont be a brittle failure again unless the whole casing cracks, which I cant imagine will happen.

87 cents for a 4 pack of bolts and nuts and my clamp was back and working, and probably better than ever, so Im still happy with my clamps.  I almost drilled out my other HF clamp to make the same adjustment, but I figured Ill just wait until it breaks as well, if it does.   

[ChadTower]

A failure like that is a lot more permissible in a $4 clamp vs a $20 clamp from Lowe's that isn't much better quality.

[DaOld Man]

When you have spent hours on a project, and you have your work at risk of being ruined because a tool fails, no manufacture failure is permissible. period.

[ChadTower]

When you have spent hours on a project, and you have your work at risk of being ruined because a tool fails, no manufacture failure is permissible. period.

So don't spend $4 on a clamp.  Buy a better one.  It makes no sense to buy low end tools and then get angry when they fail. 

[DaOld Man]

That was my point exactly, Im glad you figured it out.
You learn from your mistakes, or at least you should.