Wells Gardner SUCKS !

[Level42]

I just wanted to say that the quality of Wells Gardners 6100 PCB's S-U-C-K-S  !!!!!

I've never worked on a worse piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- than this.

I don't know where they got their PCB's from but the solder won't flow and the soldering islands/tracks come off like nothing.

Wells Gardner=HELL, Amplifone=HEAVEN.



pfff, had to get thet out. Sorry guys

[DJ Infinity]

I agree whole heartly

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81948.0

 

[qrz]

I don't know where they got their PCB's from but the solder won't flow and the soldering islands/tracks come off like nothing.

wonder if they are using that Pb free solder . it has a higher melting temp (ave +50 F) than leaded solder.
so, set tip temp around 700 F ....  and the stuff is prone to splash when over heated (>850 F)
and overheating WILL lift pads . so, be quick   

qrz



qrz

[Rickn]

Yes if they are using lead free solder it requires more heat... yeah just what you needed more heat... more lifted foils and traces.

RickN

[MonMotha]

Doesn't help that these are always cheap-o phenolic boards usually with non-plated holes and cheap soldermask.  At the temps required for Pb-Free solder reflow, the darn boards will start to delaminate, so it's no surprise that traces fall off.  Really, almost all monitors have this problem to an extent, but WG also seems to have a terrible waves soldering process that leaves cold joints everywhere requiring lots of rework.  Perhaps they just chucked Pb-Free solder in the pot without resetting anything?

A temp controlled iron is almost mandatory for reworking phenolic boards with Pb-free solder.  Don't bother with your $5 Radio Shack.

Oh yeah, boo lead free solder.  Just don't eat the leaded stuff, and you'll be fine.

Minimum I've found to re-work Pb-Free is 325C.  350C works better.  Issue is that at the lower temps, you sometimes have to keep the heat on so long that the board and surrounding surfaces heat up too much.  At higher temps, the immediate area gets too hot and falls apart.  It's much easier to find a balance with leaded stuff.

You can flow in some leaded solder sometimes to lower the melting point as you're working.  This can help out if you need to re-work the same area repeatedly as it lets you use cooler temps for the later passes.  Problem is that you can end up with lots of flux residue or just plain too much solder.

For the monitor guys: any reason they don't use FR-4 in monitors?  It stands up to heat way better.  Just a cost issue?  If so, why do people care to save maybe a buck on what are sometimes $1000+ monitors?

[ahofle]

I highly doubt they used Pb-free solder in a 20+ year old vector monitor. 

[ahofle]

While on the topic of WG, what is going on with their website?  I get warnings from google about it being an unsafe site with malicious file downloads!  Google 'wells gardner' and then click on the company website (should be first match).

http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://www.wellsgardner.com/

"Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer!"

[Ummon]

I just went there and don't get this...although, I get apparently something similar visiting the Daphne forums. Owenby explained that he didn't have the funds to get a Win license of some sort, so IE flags it. If you're using Firefox, might be something else.

[ahofle]

Well you have to go there from a google search result link (ie. don't type the URL in).

[Ummon]

I see. Take this google result, for example; search term was 'wells-gardner'. The first link (which is wgec.com) works fine. Goes righ to WG. The second link, which says wells-gardner in it, does what you say.

http://www.google.com/search?q=wells-gardner&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF

[mewyn]

I think at one time their site was compromised and their admin needs to contact google to get them off the safe browsing blacklist.  This will only happen if you're using FF3 with safe browsing enabled, or a plugin for other browsers.

[Level42]

Yeah, I was talking about the "old" Wells-Garder from the golden age.

Here's a picture to further prove my point:



A big resistor, simply NOT soldered !!! Nothing ever touched this !!! I bet this WG 6100 neckboard was NOS because I can't believe that it "just" made contact for 25 years.

So I thought this would fix the problem, soldered it, only to discover yet ANOTHER contact problem with the wiring somewhere on that print. Still have to find out where, but I guess I'm just going to shotgun it and re-solder ALL wires......sigh.....

[Ken Layton]

Umm.....I got news for you. Wells still hasn't fixed their soldering problems.

[Ummon]

Umm.....I got news for you. Wells still hasn't fixed their soldering problems.

On all models, multisyncs included?

[smartbomb2084]

As far as lifted traces go... how come nobody has mentioned the age old trick of mixing  aftermarket solder with the factory hard solder to make parts more easliy removeable?  I do this to EVERY solder joint whether installing cap kits or changing other parts and have had only a few lifted solder pads on WG monitors. 

I think the bad lead free solder rap is just a cover-up for poor soldering skills.  'nuff said.

[Ken Layton]

Lead free solder requires MORE heat. Just what foil traces don't need is more heat to cause lifting.

[MonMotha]

As far as lifted traces go... how come nobody has mentioned the age old trick of mixing  aftermarket solder with the factory hard solder to make parts more easliy removeable?  I do this to EVERY solder joint whether installing cap kits or changing other parts and have had only a few lifted solder pads on WG monitors. 

I think the bad lead free solder rap is just a cover-up for poor soldering skills.  'nuff said.

You can flow in some leaded solder sometimes to lower the melting point as you're working.  This can help out if you need to re-work the same area repeatedly as it lets you use cooler temps for the later passes.  Problem is that you can end up with lots of flux residue or just plain too much solder.

Mentioned in a lead-free context, but same idea.

And yes, lead-free sucks.  You have to get it hotter, causing lifted traces or even delamination of cheaper PCBs (like those commonly used in monitors).  It can grow tin whiskers.  The flux is NASTY stuff that some argue is worse for assembly in terms of health risk than all the exposure to lead ever was.  It's not quite as much of a disposal concern, but I sure hate working with it.  Lead at least is just a matter of "wash your hands and try not to breath the fumes too badly".  The Pb-free flux fumes are downright foul in many cases.  I'm fairly proficient at soldering (if it has leads, chances are I can get it soldered, and I can do some leadless packages, too), and I hate the lead free crap.  Yes, better soldering skills can help, but it's just plain harder to work with.  I *can* solder lead-free, but I don't like to.  It seems that many are in agreement here...

I'd still like to know why all monitor PCBs are that cheap phenolic material when FR-4 (or other higher temp laminates in the same family) stands up to heat so much better.

[Jeff AMN]

As far as lifted traces go... how come nobody has mentioned the age old trick of mixing  aftermarket solder with the factory hard solder to make parts more easliy removeable?  I do this to EVERY solder joint whether installing cap kits or changing other parts and have had only a few lifted solder pads on WG monitors. 

I think the bad lead free solder rap is just a cover-up for poor soldering skills.  'nuff said.

Hmm, I don't know. I've been soldering for a very long time and the lead-free crap irritates me. I just don't like the amount of heat I need to have going to get it to flow.

[smartbomb2084]

Beat down lead free solder all you want people...  What's harder to work with than 1980's Williams' solder?  Have you ever tried removing a 7489 RAM from a ROBOTRON CPU board?

[Level42]

No need to work on Williams' ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83897.0