Arcade Light Gun Interface comming

[wbassett]

I'm still waiting for a decent light gun solution at all. I've got some LCD Topguns and they look the nuts with loads of buttons and a mini-stick on the back, but setting them up is a pain and I've all but given up, what with different settings for Windows (PC) games and for all different versions of MAME.  

Nice cab in your other post!

I have a Topgun too and finally did get it to work, but recoil is worthless and I don't use it.  It was a pain to setup and what made it worse was I had a hardware problem (broken wire in the sensor bar).  It works now but still doesn't track well at the edges.  I am setting up a new PC for my cab so I'll be trying the newest drivers that are supposed to finally work.  Even if everything works with the new drivers, I have read lots of people say the guns aren't that durable and can break easily.  It seems like when they work for people they work great, but for those that have problems, they can be a real pain.

I'm looking for an alternative and interested in this thread and the one on the Wii mote.  If they get it working with a driver that supports the sensor bar, I'm game!  I'll be one of the nutballs that will be taking the Wii mote apart and mounting it inside one of these...

[vitalsfading]

yeah the r030 i can't get the guy to e-mail me back besides i think it would have the same problem as the first one i asked hagstrom build,playablity simple for the fact the flash would problyhave to be longer like i said i am having them look in into build an interface uninspired buy the wiimote using an arcad light gun and a simple ir array to tianglate position on the screen

[wbassett]

Maybe I missed this, I'll go back and check but was it said how much this will cost if they can get it working?

I don't think anyone is against spending some cash within reason if something works and works well, but even something like the Act-Labs PC gun at around $100 is a bit much just to 'test'.  I already went down that road with the TopGun, which is at least usable now, but I personally think it's a lot of money for the Topgun considering they can be so buggy and even break for some people under normal use.

What's appealing about the Wii mote project is it will be pretty inexpensive.  I read somewhere (and will see if I can find the link) that the Time Crisis 4 gun is based on the same technology as the Wii mote.  If so, then I can attest it is pretty accurate and responsive.

As far as taking the Wii motes apart and extending the sensor, it's been done and does work.
http://kotaku.com/gaming/wii/a-bangin-homemade-wiigun-233839.php

Here is another one, pretty crude, but shows it can be done.
http://www.acidmods.com/forum/index.php?topic=6040.msg51144#new

Here is one where a guy made his own sensor for a laptop.



Has anyone used one of these?
http://keen-top.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008822524891/pdtl/Computer-game/1004452833/PC-Light-Gun.htm

It looks like some sort of similar version along the lines of Act-Labs, but they sell for around $11 (before shipping from China plus import tax).  I have a co-worker that is from China and he said today he can probably get one for me.   If not now, he goes home once a year and he'll pick one up then.  (Could be interesting getting it through customs though).
It connects to the VGA connector and then the monitor connects to the other side of the passthrough connector, pretty similar setup like  Act-Labs has.  Then you plug it into a USB port.  Like I said, I have no information on this one.  If anyone has one or has used one any feedback would be most excellent!

I'm definitely following this thread to see how it pans out.

[vitalsfading]

no price as of yet , i am having them change the interface a bit, but because i can't wait i got a wii mote setup going but its not bad but the accuracy leaves a little to be disired but its not abad setup but heres the problem looking at the recipts ok you have 40 per wii mote 30 dollars for the bluetooth adapter and 15 dollars for a light bar. total 125 dollars that is going to take me a little to setup ohh and i forgot depending on your bluetooth adapter you have to buy a 20 dollar program so the way i look at it there is no realy "cheap" solution but i just hope hagstom can pull this off for us. i would like to ask every one a ? if for instance the interface would cost 100 to 150 and hagstrom setup up there hardware/software to work with mame out of the box. given that you would have to get light guns who would accually buy this. i know i would

[Blanka]

I think going with the Wiimote is no option. Did you ever try the Wiizapper? It's like shooting on a fancy fair with way too many beers in your body. Nothing compared to the old NES Zapper, which was dead-accurate (and used the black screen with white-box method).
I think the only way to achieve an USB absolute positioned wacom-like input and good acuracy is by working with a infrared dot or screen-boundary sensitive webcam, a microcontroller and 4 or more infrared leds when the infrared mode is used. The microcontroller determines the position based on the posisition of the web-cammed dots or the seen screen rectangle, and turns it into a mouse coordinate as if it was a 1:1 tablet-screen device.

[AndyWarne]

I think the only way to achieve an USB absolute positioned wacom-like input and good acuracy is by working with a infrared dot or screen-boundary sensitive webcam, a microcontroller and 4 or more infrared leds when the infrared mode is used. The microcontroller determines the position based on the posisition of the web-cammed dots or the seen screen rectangle, and turns it into a mouse coordinate as if it was a 1:1 tablet-screen device.

I totally agree. This would be an improvement over the Wii-mote as it would add accuracy by having dots at each corner.
I looked at this possibility a while back but could not find a camera module which outputs separate H and V sync. They are all composite video. This would mean a sync separator and delays etc affecting the accuracy. There are "bare" camera chips which send separate sync but then it would need a lens assembly etc.
A microcontroller alone would not be fast enough to count the H sync pulses or do the timing, but it could be done using external circuitry. The best method of all would be a custom image chip, with everything on-board. This is perfectly possible technically (as the Wii shows) but not sure if practical in relatively low volumes. I will try to find out though.

[wbassett]

I think going with the Wiimote is no option. Did you ever try the Wiizapper? It's like shooting on a fancy fair with way too many beers in your body. Nothing compared to the old NES Zapper, which was dead-accurate (and used the black screen with white-box method).
I think the only way to achieve an USB absolute positioned wacom-like input and good acuracy is by working with a infrared dot or screen-boundary sensitive webcam, a microcontroller and 4 or more infrared leds when the infrared mode is used. The microcontroller determines the position based on the posisition of the web-cammed dots or the seen screen rectangle, and turns it into a mouse coordinate as if it was a 1:1 tablet-screen device.

No I haven't tried it.  I have tried a Gyration Gryotransport and it works as a mouse as intended, but is useless as a 'gun'. 

I'm still looking for the article on the Guncon 3 that comes with Time Crisis 4.  Whether it really is using Wii mote technology or not, it is a pretty nice gun as far as responsiveness and accuracy.  If the Wii mote is out, then the Guncon 3 should be looked at as far as getting a PC driver going.

no price as of yet , i am having them change the interface a bit, but because i can't wait i got a wii mote setup going but its not bad but the accuracy leaves a little to be disired but its not abad setup but heres the problem looking at the recipts ok you have 40 per wii mote 30 dollars for the bluetooth adapter and 15 dollars for a light bar. total 125 dollars that is going to take me a little to setup ohh and i forgot depending on your bluetooth adapter you have to buy a 20 dollar program so the way i look at it there is no realy "cheap" solution but i just hope hagstom can pull this off for us. i would like to ask every one a ? if for instance the interface would cost 100 to 150 and hagstrom setup up there hardware/software to work with mame out of the box. given that you would have to get light guns who would accually buy this. i know i would

People can check their computers.  A lot (not all) newer PCs already have Bluetooth.  I have a Bluetooth adapter already, so in my case that's a none factor.  $30 is too much for one, they can be had for much cheaper than that, I'd look around if that's the price you see.

The Wii mote... yeah $40 retail.  Then you have to buy the 'gun' for another $15-$20.  Sensor bars can be bought or made.   GameStop usually sells used gear.  It depends on your area though I guess.  In my area a used Wii mote is $34.  Down in PA my son can get a used one for $20.  I know myself and others would feel better about tearing apart a $20 used one than a $40 new one.

Here are some camera based guns like you guys were mentioning...
I'm not sure if this one works with a PC
http://www.iconic-corp.com/gaming/g1/index.html

This works with a PC and is supposed to be the most accurate (but also the most expensive) and uses the same technology developed by the military and used by them and police forces for training.  It also is camera based.
http://www.cabelas.com/hprod-1/0022706.shtml
I'm not even sure how well it would work with a CRT monitor since it is designed to be used with a projector.  It's really a moot point though because at $2000 I doubt anyone is going to be running out to buy one for an arcade.

Here are my thoughts though.  We know the Guncon 2 works, and so does the Topgun when you get it setup.  I'm reading of success reports with the Wii mote, including using two of them- but I also hear some people say they aren't very accurate, yet others say they are.  Then again, I hear the same thing about the Topgun's.

My thoughts are that we have guns already so I am one that likes keeping things as simple as possible.  I don't know if changing code in MAME is an answer.  That could cause other things that currently work to blow up until all the bugs are worked out.  We know certain things work and certain things don't... and then there are the items that are questionable, mainly because there are no drivers for them.  Drivers and existing guns seems like the best approach in my opinion.

[vitalsfading]

man you ever look back on one of your posts and realized that you seemed like you were drunk. anyways no new news  yet. like i said i have been playing around with the wii mote, buti really am starting to dislike it. i guess i coderight some code to improve the functionality of it. the problem with the wii mote is that it needs a script that not only will get the aim right but adjust that aim the further you get from the screen,but like i said i am realy not happy with it at the moment .I am just hoping that hagstom can build this interface. 

[Paul Olson]

$150 is certainly on the high end of what I would pay, but if all of the gun games played arcade accurate, I think I would buy it.

[vitalsfading]

no reply yet probably here back from them after the holidays if not i e-mail them back

[wbassett]

no price as of yet , i am having them change the interface a bit, but because i can't wait i got a wii mote setup going but its not bad but the accuracy leaves a little to be disired but its not abad setup but heres the problem looking at the recipts ok you have 40 per wii mote 30 dollars for the bluetooth adapter and 15 dollars for a light bar. total 125 dollars that is going to take me a little to setup ohh and i forgot depending on your bluetooth adapter you have to buy a 20 dollar program so the way i look at it there is no realy "cheap" solution but i just hope hagstom can pull this off for us. i would like to ask every one a ? if for instance the interface would cost 100 to 150 and hagstrom setup up there hardware/software to work with mame out of the box. given that you would have to get light guns who would accually buy this. i know i would

Are we talking $150 just for the interface and then you still have to buy a couple Happ guns?