Arcade Light Gun Interface comming

[vitalsfading]

I am having Hagstrom electronics give me a quote on building a Arcade light gun interface for usb. from what i am getting from them so far they can build it to the standard happ gun and emulate the input in the computer as a mouse. they it shouldn't be a problem. when i get the price quote i will let you guys know. if there is anything you guys can think of that i should tell them to  add to the interface let me know. i know there are other solutions to this problem as far as using a wiimote or usb pc light gun, but there is nothing like an authentic arcade light gun. this is what i am striving for in my arcade cab is a more authentic feel. i have used the pc light guns before but they just don't got the feel of a regular arcade gun. besides unlike r0r3 guys these guys answer e-mails and really seem interested in this project and will build it to work the way i want it to.

[Xiaou2]

 One problem will be that CRTs will not be around much longer.
(arcade lightguns dont work on lcds, nor pc monitors)

 Tracking on the LCD topguns is excellent.  Only problem that some have is that it
needs a certain distance range away from the screen.   Adjusting that problem,
and it would be near perfection.

 The only reason Arcade lightguns seem better is simply heavy duty construction
of the gun.    The internal tracking itself is not complex at all.

 Arcade guns are also very expensive.  Partly because they are built well.. and partly
because they sell to the arcade industry and have little/no competition.

 I think it would be better to get  the LCD topgun people to mod their existing hardware,
and make a better 'heavy duty' arcade version of the gun with real arcade coil feedback.

 Or, to get hagstrom to make an inferred tech that rivals the lcd topguns tech.

[wbassett]

 One problem will be that CRTs will not be around much longer.
(arcade lightguns dont work on lcds, nor pc monitors)

 Tracking on the LCD topguns is excellent.  Only problem that some have is that it
needs a certain distance range away from the screen.   Adjusting that problem,
and it would be near perfection.

 The only reason Arcade lightguns seem better is simply heavy duty construction
of the gun.    The internal tracking itself is not complex at all.

 Arcade guns are also very expensive.  Partly because they are built well.. and partly
because they sell to the arcade industry and have little/no competition.

 I think it would be better to get  the LCD topgun people to mod their existing hardware,
and make a better 'heavy duty' arcade version of the gun with real arcade coil feedback.

 Or, to get hagstrom to make an inferred tech that rivals the lcd topguns tech.

I am interested in  this as well as some of the work being done with trying to get Wii motes working.

As far as the tracking on the Topgun, I haven't tried the latest drivers yet (but will be very soon because I have a new MAME PC I am swapping) but I would say the Topgun is good center screen, and marginally okay at the outer edges.  It works fine for a point and shoot game where you only have to hit a large area to register a 'kill', but for other games like Police Trainer it isn't that accurate, at least with the current drivers I have.

LCD is going to replace CRT, that's inevitable.  If there was a gun as reliable as the CRT guns that worked with LCD then I'd definitely go that way but right now my verdict is still out on them.

There is also this... http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm  I haven't seen any reviews on it or heard of anyone that has actually used one, but if it does what they say then it also allows the use of genuine arcade guns to be used with MAME.  It's a bit expensive though.

Keep us informed of what Hagstrom says and how much it will cost.

[vitalsfading]

well i will ask them to see if they could make something like that with less range(as far as the lcd top gun) but i am going to go ahead with my original idea. as far as the crt's being replace by lcds that ain't going to happen for a long time simply for the fact that crt's have such a long live span and in an arcade environment (unless using realy big screens) are going to hold up so much better. and also for the simple fact that crt's are cheaper to make, you are not lickly to see crt's disapear now what you will see is lcd's more abundent but crt's are notgoing to disapear as fast as you think. besides i want a gun i won't have to worry about for a long time and if i need to fix something i can replace stuff piece by piece and not have to buy a whole new gun. imho i think its better to spend the money the first time to get not only what i want but something i am not going to have to replace 5 times

[Xiaou2]

 Well, Act labs made a TV gun  and it was horrible.   1" off in multiple directions was normal under
perfect calibration with my tv.   Completely unusable.

 Turns out that some CRTs are not supported (though they dont tell you that until its
too late).   As some TVs (mine - a newer model panasonic w/ 480 capability)  use different display technologies.

 Their PC monitor version was also awful.   Very poor accuracy,  random positions fired...etc.
The Topgun I have seemed to have near flawless tracking.  Ill have to retest them as I unhooked
them until I built a proper cab. 

 Maybe your gun was having trouble with the surrounding light in your room that was interfering
with the LEDs.  Try in complete darkness.   Make sure the lens is clean too.

 
 The Wii  only uses one bar, so I do not think the accuracy would be as good as the topguns
which uses two bars for triangulation?

[Xiaou2]

 
FYI - I think they already ceased production of 19" arcade monitors.

 Not many new arcade machines coming out, but I believe the new Street Fighter is
LCD or plasma.   

[vitalsfading]

thats what strayed me away from doing the whole gun con thing is everyone says you need to have the brightnes so far up that its almost not worth doing. i was looking though happs catalog they even have an optical ampliefier board for monitors that have lost brightness. my only problem with the lcd top gun is the simply the range. i got a 30 inch crt in my cab and don't want to stand back 60+ inches from the screen. i doesn't sound like allot but i would rather be able to stand where i want especially when i put a pedal for some game reloads or such i want it to be on the cab not 4 feet back lol.

[vitalsfading]

not realy go look at happs website from what i am seeing there are about the same amount of manufactures make both crt's and lcd's. besides if you needed a 25 monitor(arcade) would you buy a crt or lcd. lcdis probly going to cost you aproox. another 300 to 500 more dollars


btw i am not in doubt that lcd's will take over as the primary arcade monitor style what i am saying is that crt's more then likely will not go away for many years to come

[vitalsfading]

i just thought of something maybe i could  see if they could do something with the sega style gun setup that uses the ensors around the screen (similar to the lcd topgun) i think and was supposed to look into this althought the cost  would be higher than the the normal gunsetup i was planing. ti might be a very accurate at all points on the screen setup

[AndyWarne]

i just thought of something maybe i could  see if they could do something with the sega style gun setup that uses the ensors around the screen (similar to the lcd topgun) i think and was supposed to look into this althought the cost  would be higher than the the normal gunsetup i was planing. ti might be a very accurate at all points on the screen setup

That Sega system was renowned for being inaccurate and unreliable.
Also any system which uses a standard arcade gun (not the Sega system) would need to hook into the video signal in order to make the screen white when the trigger is fired.
There really is nothing to be said in favor of arcade light guns. They are basically a very expensive phototransistor. Thats really all there is in them, apart from a lens and trigger switch. All the intelligence was built into the game board.
Andy

[wbassett]

not realy go look at happs website from what i am seeing there are about the same amount of manufactures make both crt's and lcd's. besides if you needed a 25 monitor(arcade) would you buy a crt or lcd. lcdis probly going to cost you aproox. another 300 to 500 more dollars


btw i am not in doubt that lcd's will take over as the primary arcade monitor style what i am saying is that crt's more then likely will not go away for many years to come

I agree that whatever CRTs are out there now will be around for a few years but it is starting to get harder and harder to find larger size CRTs.  Of course companies like Wells Gardner has them as do some other companies, but expect the prices to go up as the supply starts to go down.

I'm in this boat myself right now.  I have a 21" computer monitor in my cab and although it works fine, it looks a bit small for the cab.  You used to be able to get large size PC monitors or CRT 4:3 'HDTVs' that had VGA connectors on them so they also could be used for monitors, but they are very hard to find now.

I called many places and one company told me they actually blew out all their 27" monitors for $5-10 or for free to whoever would come get them.  They said nobody wanted them because of thier size and weight and they were taking up valuable warehouse space.  So yes, I may be able to land a deal on one of those if I get lucky, otherwise it will only leave WG or Billabs as the main choices.

I don't have a problem going that route, but was hoping to get something that had a VGA input as well as video inputs so I could also connect a game console to my cab. 

As far as prices, I've actually seen LCDs cheaper than some of the available 27" monitors out there, it all depends on where you look.  I think for now I will stick with the 21" trinitron and do some more looking around and see which way looks like the best option for what I want to do.  Depending on which way I go will dictate what type of gun I use.  Right now I do have a Topgun, so at least I can use that on either as long as it continues to work.

As far as the Wii mote only having one sensor bar, the Guncon 3 that comes with Time Crisis 4 uses two 2"x2" sensors that sit on the top of your set.  Basically it's the same as having one sensor bar like the Wii but is in two small housings rather than one long strip.  The gun is very responsive and accurate on my 55" HDTV, so if anyone can get the Wii motes working in MAME as a gun, that will be a very viable option too.

[FrizzleFried]

CRT's will be produced for many years to come...don't be fooled to believe otherwise.  There are many companies still making them and they will continue to make them until demand subsides.  Currently there is way way way too much demand for CRT's to stop making them.  Wherever "X" heard they stopped making 19" CRT's,  I dunno,  but it's completely INCORRECT.

I assume he is mixing up the news that Sony and Panasonic have stopped CRT production somehow?  Sure,  the big boys will stop production or have stopped production,  but there will always (at least for the foreseeable future) niche manufacturers that will produce these things (VisionPro, Betson, Neiman, etc).

You can easily purchase a 19", 25", 27" CRT now as you ever could.  Of course the 25" monitor is now called a 24.75" monitor I do believe,  but that aside...they are quite easy to come by.

It's not like the vector monitor situation...where there were only a handful of games that used them.  THOUSANDS of games use CRT monitors.  These same games don't look anywhere near "authentic" with an LCD in their place.

[u_rebelscum]

I am having Hagstrom electronics give me a quote on building a Arcade light gun interface for usb. from what i am getting from them so far they can build it to the standard happ gun and emulate the input in the computer as a mouse. they it shouldn't be a problem. when i get the price quote i will let you guys know.

I'm interested.

[vitalsfading]

well they e-mailed me back today and need an example of the happ gun i want to use so looks like i need to dig up one.
i sent them the tech specs from happs website. they said this may due if not they want an example gun before they can give me a quote.

[vitalsfading]

CRT's will be produced for many years to come...don't be fooled to believe otherwise.  There are many companies still making them and they will continue to make them until demand subsides.  Currently there is way way way too much demand for CRT's to stop making them.  Wherever "X" heard they stopped making 19" CRT's,  I dunno,  but it's completely INCORRECT (likely the same source where he obtained the "death train" idea?!)

I assume he is mixing up the news that Sony and Panasonic have stopped CRT production somehow?  Sure,  the big boys will stop production or have stopped production,  but there will always (at least for the foreseeable future) niche manufacturers that will produce these things (VisionPro, Betson, Neiman, etc).

You can easily purchase a 19", 25", 27" CRT now as you ever could.  Of course the 25" monitor is now called a 24.75" monitor I do believe,  but that aside...they are quite easy to come by.

It's not like the vector monitor situation...where there were only a handful of games that used them.  THOUSANDS of games use CRT monitors.  These same games don't look anywhere near "authentic" with an LCD in their place.

i think were everyone is getting this idea from wells discontinued one of there 'models; of 19 inch crt

[vitalsfading]

just got another email from hagstrom they said the are sure they can interface it but was asking me about the software how i wanted to detect position on the screen he suggested that the light gun trigger flashes the screen and activate certain points on the screen and the software will determain position

[Xiaou2]

 Well, mame on most gun games is going to flash automatically when the trigger is pressed.
However, positonal guns wont work that way obviously.


 I think there may also be issues with multiple  resolutions/refresh  switchings too?

 Will they be for Arcade monitors only?  Lowres?  Med res?  Multisync?  Hi-res?
 (Im not too savvy on monitor tech, but know that it will be a challenge to be able to
support such varied differences)

 And or will it support Component input on CRT TVs? 

 Have you mentioned to them the need for dual guns in operation simultaneously?  As that
may also effect outcome costs and technical changes that may have to be considered.

 And finally... will mames system interface well with it?   If the timings are off, it could result in
accuracy losses.  You might want to ask a Dev some technical questions about the best
way to approach this.   Also, a Dev might be a good technical contact for them to
bounce questions off of frequently.


 Id heard the CRTs were not being produced from fellow collectors.  Maybe I heard wrong, and was
only one company who stopped making them.   However, demand isnt exactly high, and
since they can last decades when new... its hard to really say how much longer people will
keep producing them... especially when the other display tech is gona get even cheaper and better
in years to come.

 I agree that these games dont look very good on LCDs.   However, I also must accept the
hard reality that we might not always be able to get what we want.

[Paul Olson]

I am interested in buying one of these if they are produced. Until there is something like a topgun that works perfect for this application, I want to use the original guns.

[TPB]

Has anyone tried this ?

It's been mentioned on BYOAC in the past, but AFAIK nobody's actually tried it :


USB Optical Light Gun Interface Board

http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm

[FrizzleFried]

That looks like it does exactly what we want!   Unfortunately,  it looks like it supports VGA or better.

[vitalsfading]

well here is what i am trying to have hagstrom do is to make this interface campatable with mame the r0r3 youcan get that but the everyone that has emailed him says that the guys says that it is not compatable with mame out of the box i want hagstrom to make it compatable out of the box maybe i should bring that up that some of the games flash in the software also what the tech said to me i n the last email is that most of the arcade light gun games when the flash they only light up certain sections of the screen not like the old duck hunt where they light the targets. he also said the way the arcade guns work also it flashes then the game finds out were the gun was pointed on the screen not what it  was pointed at if that makes sense. maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.

[u_rebelscum]

I'm very suspect that the original game flashing in mame will not be enough.  In the original hardware, the game flashed when the trigger was pulled, and then the mainboard (or I/O board) timed the gun sensor and calculated the screen location.  However in mame, the game flashes when mame tells the game the trigger was pulled, and mame does not emulate the gun sensor timing part, but instead relies on the OS to give a mouse location.

Let's assume the original game sends the flash at the start of the next frame, and expects the location to be calculated within three frames (~3/60 sec, or ~1/20 of a sec) of the trigger pull.  This is conservative, as I'd think most expect it during that flashed screen, or at average of 1.5 frames, or max of 2 frames (finish of current frame + flashed frame).  The time to finish the current frame and the time for drawing the flash screen is there no matter what, which leaves 1 frame for the firmware (or driver or software) to calculate the location, send to mame, and mame to send to the game.  And mame polls inputs only once per frame; if mame polls too early, no luck.  And that's assuming mame's -dual_light hack isn't enabled, as this requires the location to be sent at the same time as the trigger pull.  Add if the game expects it within 2 frames, there is no way it can be done (err, without emulating the original location calculating hardware AND adding a new raw sensor input type AND writing a driver that lets apps see the raw sensor data signal ).


So the interface:
* Needs to be able to flash the screen itself, so the interface can send the location with the trigger pull.   It might be left an option for games already bright enough, and/or be able to adjust the brightness, so tinted glass will be bright enough, but untinted won't be blinding bright.
* It would be best for mame if the interface would send a location of (0,MAX_Y) or (MAX_X,MAX_Y) for offscreen shots.  OTOH, other games want mouse button 2 with last shot location, and mame has hacks to translate that to IIRC (0,MAX_Y), so it's not a needed feature.
* For mame, the interface can send real screen location (example: a 1280x1024 screen, 1-1280 and 1-1024), or fixed (example: 0-64000 for both X & Y, no matter what res it's running at).  OTOH, other apps probably want the real screen location.
* For mame, the interface needs to be either a RawInput able mouse (not a problem for drivers, AFAIK), or an analog joystick.  OTOH, IDNK of any other app that uses RawInput, and all lightguns that works in mame act like a mouse.  (Others will say it won't work if a joystick, based on the one lightgun that was a joystick at didn't work in mame, but it wasn't because it was a joystick.)
* The firmware or driver or software needs to calculate the location, as mame doesn't.  One note about software, it's a lot harder for them to be RawInput able.  (The other option of sending the sensor signal to mame will need some big changes to mame, mentioned earlier.)

Also, are you asking someone to supply a happs gun to Hagstrom?  I might have one to loan.

the r0r3 youcan get that but the everyone that has emailed him says that the guys says that it is not compatable with mame out of the box

This is more info on that than I've heard of before.  Any more details?

... maybe i should bring that up that some of the games flash in the software

Won't help as mentioned above.  And sounds like he is aware of it already.

also what the tech said to me i n the last email is that most of the arcade light gun games when the flash they only light up certain sections of the screen not like the old duck hunt where they light the targets.

Err, usually arcade games flash the whole screen, or only the dark parts.  But yes, the old duck hunt only lit the targets.

he also said the way the arcade guns work also it flashes then the game finds out were the gun was pointed on the screen not what it  was pointed at if that makes sense.

Yup.  If you aren't clear on what happens, try wiki and howstuffworks.  Or maybe I can explain it different way if you need.  (If you understand already, great.   I wasn't sure from what you wrote.)

maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.

Impossible without hacking the ROMs (if that's what you're taling about).

[vitalsfading]

rebel that is why hagstrom is building and i am not lol as far as supplying a gun to hagstom, i still haven't found the box with mine in it. so if i can't by the end of the week maybe we can work something out if you don't mind of course i am sure by what they are telling me that they are just going to use it for software testing. like i said i told them i am using it in mame. they told me interfacing the harware won't be a problem they just need tofigure out what they need to do about the software btw what model happgun is it

[vitalsfading]

Quote
maybe it would be as simple(although probably not) just to have a setting in the software to turn the flash the software would normally produce off.

Impossible without hacking the ROMs (if that's what you're taling about).

i wasn't talking about the roms i was talking about the software interfacing the guns

this is what was part of the last email i got

In the typical gun game, the point on the screen activates, and then the output from the gun is analyzed to see if it was pointed at that area.  In your case, (if I understand correctly), you want the screen to activate different parts and determine where on the screen the gun was pointing.

that is why i said maybe there could be some kind of work around with the software or something. i would assume that they have an in house dev team considering that they build arcade to pc  interfaces so hopefully they can pull this off

[AndyWarne]

In the typical gun game, the point on the screen activates, and then the output from the gun is analyzed to see if it was pointed at that area.  In your case, (if I understand correctly), you want the screen to activate different parts and determine where on the screen the gun was pointing.

This actually is not how they normally work.
Normally when the trigger is pulled the video is blanked and then a new complete frame of white is drawn. The phototransistor in the gun knows when the electron beam in the CRT has reached the point where it is directed at. It then calculates the position as it knows the number of lines which have already been drawn, by counting horizontal sync pulses, and it also knows the time interval from the last horizontal sync pulse.
The guns need a direct interface to the video signal, to be able to detect sync pulses and blank/white the screen. This cant be done in software. Then, once the position is known this info can be fed to the PC and the driver does what it needs to do, to work out the actual position using its stored calibration settings.
The problem with the Guncon driver project was that it didnt have any video control, so relied on the gun being able to guess the location, relying on the screen being reasonably white, which few games are.
But all of this is obsolete technology and not worth developing a new product around. It would be better for someone to make an arcade style gun which can accomodate a Wii-mote even if it means hacking it and removing the PCB and wiring it in. Apart from all the other benefits its wireless. Very few people would prefer an arcade gun with its hosepipe over a wireless arcade gun.

[vitalsfading]

iam sure they can handle the video interface as well andy, besides like i said i don't want a wii mote even if it is in a light gun shell i don't feel like replacing battery's and if it was such an old technology then why is it that real arcade matchines are still using it and not wii motes

[vitalsfading]

sorry about the  flame andy just having a bad day i guess lol but what i could look into is maybe getting a set of happ gun halfs relocating the ir sensor on the wimote to the fron of the gun and maybe using the hoseing to supply power constanly to the wiimote

[vitalsfading]

I sent an e-mail to the mame dev team today when i here back i will letyou know what they say. i asked them if the flash is during emulation is a product of the actual game or just the emulator. the reason i asked them this is looking at the source code of lets say lethal enforcers(the source for what apears to be differnt games or system video drivers) there apears to be a section in thecode that ether handles the flash or creates it so i am waiting for them to get back to me.

[TheShanMan]

Very few people would prefer an arcade gun with its hosepipe over a wireless arcade gun.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'd rather not have to hunt around the house for my guns because my kids decided to play with them. The battery comment also applies to me.

[vitalsfading]

the wiimote gun wouldn't be a bad idea  if it was like i said but in a happ gun with a hose with the power being constanly supplied. andy maybe you could build a few while i do this with hagstrom

[Turnarcades]

I'm still waiting for a decent light gun solution at all. I've got some LCD Topguns and they look the nuts with loads of buttons and a mini-stick on the back, but setting them up is a pain and I've all but given up, what with different settings for Windows (PC) games and for all different versions of MAME.  

[DJ_Izumi]

All this hard work is why I'm looking at instead, building a PS2 cabinate that while having an arcade control panel, will also  have standard PlayStation game ports, memory card slots, USB ports and composite video jacks (Guncon ports) on the front, about where the coin mech would be on a standard cab.  Then I can use it for the countless ports of arcade games and just connect in the Guncons for Namco's gun games.

[vitalsfading]

now before i say this cause i have been thinking i still am going to go with my original plan with the original arcade guns but if they can get mame to use the guns,  i kinda had an brilliant stroke of genius. not alot of people like the wiimote cause of the wireless and the look i was kinda of looking around the net for someone that has put one in an arcade gun when i cam across one article about putting a wiimote into a nes zapper. now the only thing that can hinder this plan is the length of the wires(if they will degrade the signal).here is what you do disassemble the wiimote de-solider the ir sensor(camera what ever it is lol). get your self to gun half's,trigger assembly,and hoses off of haps web site what ever style.solder leads to the sensor and mount it into the happ gun halfs near the front. run the leads thru hose and solder them back to the wiimote. you will probably need a button on the side of the gun for the button that hooks the gun to the computer(blue tooth) mount the hoses to the cabinet and setup up some kind of power supply to power the wiimote  with out battery's. if i had to use a wiimote thats is how i would do it i probably would end up getting the two 45's with the soliends or the kanomi style guns with moving slides.

btw just an update i can't  find were i put my happ light guns so if someone has one they would want to loan to hagstrom to get this going it would be much appreciated. PM if you can do this i will check with them on the particulars. i know that they will not disasemble the gun i would guess that they need it for testing an such

[AndyWarne]

The Wii sensor specs are documented on the web, and it does send location information directly. But you would not be able to just de-solder it and fit it into another gun. It needs a microcontroller and other circuitry. So you would have to go with the whole PCB. Connecting power to it would be easy though to avoid the batteries.
But are the Happ gun halves really that desirable? The ones I looked at were available either in pink (!) or bright blue. A kids toy gun would make a neater gun than these. Maybe there are other variations.
If the sensor in the Wii-mote ever becomes an off-the-shelf part, I will start development of a gun immediately. It was developed especially for Nintendo though.
I do have some good contacts at one particular chip manufacturer though, I will give them another prod.
Andy

[TPB]

I do have some good contacts at one particular chip manufacturer though, I will give them another prod.

Andy,

Please do !   

[vitalsfading]

The Wii sensor specs are documented on the web, and it does send location information directly. But you would not be able to just de-solder it and fit it into another gun. It needs a microcontroller and other circuitry. So you would have to go with the whole PCB. Connecting power to it would be easy though to avoid the batteries.
But are the Happ gun halves really that desirable? The ones I looked at were available either in pink (!) or bright blue. A kids toy gun would make a neater gun than these. Maybe there are other variations.
If the sensor in the Wii-mote ever becomes an off-the-shelf part, I will start development of a gun immediately. It was developed especially for Nintendo though.
I do have some good contacts at one particular chip manufacturer though, I will give them another prod.
Andy

ok i wasn't talkin about using it with  another gun setup i was talking about desoldering it for the wiimote adding in leads and soldering the leads to the sensor and the wiimote google wii nes zapper


and btw yes i fo think that the happ guns are desirable maybe you should find out wh t people want before you tell themwhat they want(not intended to be rude) i am a business owner and its usually a good idea to find out what your customers want  before you start selling stuff. i do belive that the happ guns are disarable simply because they are the real deal

[stan2323]

What I really really really want is the 29 inch HAPP pump action shot gun to work well with Mame or even regular computer games.  That would be totally awesome.

[Turnarcades]

All this hard work is why I'm looking at instead, building a PS2 cabinate that while having an arcade control panel, will also  have standard PlayStation game ports, memory card slots, USB ports and composite video jacks (Guncon ports) on the front, about where the coin mech would be on a standard cab.  Then I can use it for the countless ports of arcade games and just connect in the Guncons for Namco's gun games.

Already done that, even hard-wired the controls to joypad hacks so the arcade controls could be used. This was one of my first projects, and is soon up for sale too.

[vitalsfading]

nice cab  btw, ok just got an update from hagstrom they can build it but they warn me that an interface like this using mame may effect playability from a stand point of graphics because they said the would have to redraw  the screen to put the trackers for there system on so you would have multiple flashes,although they did say it would work no price as of yet. but i told them if they can find a better way of doing it i am open to suggestions, i did mention to them maybe they could build the interface to use the happ guns using hardware/software to triangulate screen position using an ir array, basically something similar to the lcd top gun but using arcade quality hardware. which seeing that there is pretty much a slim to none chance of removing the flashes from mame itself. this might be the best compromise of both technology's to suit my needs and get the arcade guns into the hands of home arcade builders an players. i will update as they should be e-mailing me back today. but also i am still going to experiment with the wii into a happ gun project to see if i can pull it off to my satisfaction.

[TPB]

Vitalsfading,

Have you considered trying this interface ? :

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80261.msg838484#msg838484


It allows you to use Happ lightguns on your PC via a USB connection.

The benefits ... it's an off-the-shelf solution, that's already being manufactured, and is available right now.


The drawbacks :

* It's a bit pricey, at $159.95

* To date, no-one's reported using this product, so there's no guarantee it'll function as claimed.

* Given it interfaces the Happ lightgun to a PC, it should be recognised by MAME ... but until someone's tried it, there's no guarantee.

* As mentioned by Frizzle above ... from the spec's of this product, it appears to only work at VGA resolution or better, so it'll only work with PC monitors ... it won't work with Arcade monitors that have a lower resolution and frequency.

* It mentions it's WINDOWS 98/ME Compatible, but no mention of Windows XP (which most of us are using for MAME installs), or other Windows versions such as 2000 or Vista.


That's a rather substantial list of drawbacks ... but still worth a thought, as an alternative to having Hagstrom develop an entire new interface "from scratch" on your behalf.