Best. Missile Command. Ever.

[shmokes]

[ahofle]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, that is maybe the best remake of a classic game ever.
Needs to be a little harder though. 

[mountain]

Damn! That is so cool. How many missles per level do you get anyway, like 35,000??

[bleargh]

oh yeah!  I want me one of those... 

[patrickl]

Lol, that's silly.

Off the related video's, I came across a link to a 3d tracker using two Wiimotes:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT6aQN-lwmo[/youtube]
Now that would be cool for gaming. Combine two IR camera's (on top of the TV) and the current Wii setup (with an IR led or two in the Wiimote) and you could accurately locate the Wiimote in space and the direction of the Wiimote itself. This should make for much more accurate light gun games.

[shardian]

Lol, that's silly.

Off the related video's, I came across a link to a 3d tracker using two Wiimotes:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT6aQN-lwmo[/youtube]
Now that would be cool for gaming. Combine two IR camera's (on top of the TV) and the current Wii setup (with an IR led or two in the Wiimote) and you could accurately locate the Wiimote in space and the direction of the Wiimote itself. This should make for much more accurate light gun games.

There was another vid on youtube of a guy that used the wiimotes to develop a true 3-d target shooter that tracked his head and modified the field of vision on screen. You know how you always wanted to "get a better view" on some shots of the wimmins in movies? Well this technology would make it possible.

Now the only question is:
Now that nerds all over the place are discovering how easy it is to use the Wiimotes to develop this stuff, did the Nintendo engineers also realize this and plan ahead for the Wii?

Star Wars lightsaber battles pops into mind here.

[patrickl]

There was another vid on youtube of a guy that used the wiimotes to develop a true 3-d target shooter that tracked his head and modified the field of vision on screen.

Indeed. Since the Wiimote can track 4 LEDs they could put two on your head and two on the gun and then track both. Pretty cool.

[Bones]

No, This is the best Missile Command ever.

[shmokes]

I kept waiting for it to intercept another, much larger missile.  It did not happen.   

[ahofle]

Lol, that's silly.

Off the related video's, I came across a link to a 3d tracker using two Wiimotes:

Another (even more related) video:


This should theoretically make that missile command game a reality on a projected screen.  Nintendo needs to hire the hell out of this dude.

[shardian]

Lol, that's silly.

Off the related video's, I came across a link to a 3d tracker using two Wiimotes:

Another (even more related) video:


This should theoretically make that missile command game a reality on a projected screen.  Nintendo needs to hire the hell out of this dude.

You know what the most ironic thing is about this:
This guy just used a $50 controller to blow millions of dollars of M$ research money right out of the water.

[patrickl]

Another (even more related) video:

This should theoretically make that missile command game a reality on a projected screen.  Nintendo needs to hire the hell out of this dude.

You know what the most ironic thing is about this:
This guy just used a $50 controller to blow millions of dollars of M$ research money right out of the water.

This is nothing new though. There are plenty people who already coupled a projector and an IR camera to copy MS Surface or multi-touch projections. The Wiimote does make this easier to some extent though.

BTW the MS surface and the screen shown in the Missile Command clip works without having IR leds taped to fingers. That's a lot more user friendly.

[ahofle]

BTW the MS surface and the screen shown in the Missile Command clip works without having IR leds taped to fingers. That's a lot more user friendly.

It's also $5000-$10000.  I'll stick with the $40 wiimote solution and my old beat up projector, thanks.

[patrickl]

BTW the MS surface and the screen shown in the Missile Command clip works without having IR leds taped to fingers. That's a lot more user friendly.

It's also $5000-$10000.  I'll stick with the $40 wiimote solution and my old beat up projector, thanks.

Or use a much cheaper webcam instead of the Wiimote.

[ahofle]

Now you're talkin!

[NiN^_^NiN]

Lol, that's silly.

Off the related video's, I came across a link to a 3d tracker using two Wiimotes:

Another (even more related) video:


This should theoretically make that missile command game a reality on a projected screen.  Nintendo needs to hire the hell out of this dude.

The guy is pretty smart turning something so simple and using it differently than it was ment to be used

There was another vid on youtube of a guy that used the wiimotes to develop a true 3-d target shooter that tracked his head and modified the field of vision on screen. You know how you always wanted to "get a better view" on some shots of the wimmins in movies? Well this technology would make it possible.

Now the only question is:
Now that nerds all over the place are discovering how easy it is to use the Wiimotes to develop this stuff, did the Nintendo engineers also realize this and plan ahead for the Wii?

Star Wars lightsaber battles pops into mind here.

He was the one that started the whole thing his name is Johnny Chung Lee

The website with all youtube vids
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/

Here is the forum for people to post their projects/ideas
http://www.wiimoteproject.com/

He also did a speaking spot at TED which is worth a look

There was another vid on youtube of a guy that used the wiimotes to develop a true 3-d target shooter that tracked his head and modified the field of vision on screen.

Indeed. Since the Wiimote can track 4 LEDs they could put two on your head and two on the gun and then track both. Pretty cool.

Actually it would be hard to use IR leds for head tracking and gun shooting (making the led turn on n off for shooting brings problems when you can't see one side of the headtracking)

Altho using a wiimote in ur hands will work as the led streams wont cross or a wireless nunchuck would be better altho it isn't released yet

Another (even more related) video:

This should theoretically make that missile command game a reality on a projected screen.  Nintendo needs to hire the hell out of this dude.

You know what the most ironic thing is about this:
This guy just used a $50 controller to blow millions of dollars of M$ research money right out of the water.

This is nothing new though. There are plenty people who already coupled a projector and an IR camera to copy MS Surface or multi-touch projections. The Wiimote does make this easier to some extent though.

BTW the MS surface and the screen shown in the Missile Command clip works without having IR leds taped to fingers. That's a lot more user friendly.

Well you should say MS copied them as they had multitouch tables before microsoft even reveled their Surface project to the public

The missle command could be easily down if you have a huge sheet of plastic/glass and do the leds that way

quote author=patrickl link=topic=80071.msg836339#msg836339 date=1210719076]

BTW the MS surface and the screen shown in the Missile Command clip works without having IR leds taped to fingers. That's a lot more user friendly.

It's also $5000-$10000.  I'll stick with the $40 wiimote solution and my old beat up projector, thanks.

Or use a much cheaper webcam instead of the Wiimote.
[/quote]

Funny enough i did the Whiteboard one on my wall and let my nephew and niece draw on the wall it worked out great the projector size was big enough for the 2 kids and the led pens didn't create a problem (i made my led pens so when pressure was applied to the tip it turned the led on so the kids didn't have to pus a button it made it more natural for them )

I also did a quick headtracking test in doom to see how it worked and it wasn't to bad actually i tried to use it in Quake 3 Arena but my pc keeps rebooting as it has some problems so i didn't get to give it a really good test but im gonna try it projectoed onto the wall and use the led glasses to headtrack and see how that goes i think it should be quite cool

[Xiaou2]

best?!  How so???

 Because its multi touch and multiplayer?   That does not make a game the best.

 There is obviously No skill or challenge involved in that version - which means..
there is no real gameplay or replay vaule. 
 
 Its merely a Novelty.

 There are plenty of missile command clones which would totally own this.

[Xiaou2]

 A comment made on the site  Engadget:

"I got bored watching it. It just looks like you're playing a vertical version of whack a mole. If you still have fun at Chuck E. Cheese, then I guess you're in luck."


 

[Xiaou2]

 Laser Missile Command is at least more playable:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDHCkkN5jzo&eurl=http://blog.insightvr.com/?p=12[/youtube]


 Of course, if you have ever played  "Missile Defense 3D"  for the Sega Master System... that game
is awesome.  Much better than either of these shown demos.

 
 Hmm,  can the LCD topgun   be used in missile command?  Havnt tried that.  Would be
a great hack.

[shmokes]

best?!  How so???

Don't be a dork.  It's awesome.  It's hilarious.  It's over the top.  It's awesome.  Any classic gamer who doesn't watch that vid and get a gigantic smile on his face has no soul. 

[Xiaou2]

 If you want to say its cool.. then fine...  I can agree with that to a degree...

 But  "Best ever" ?  Not even close man.    Thats like a slap in the face
to the creators of the Original.     You know... the guys who slaved over their computers for
18+ hrs a day for months at a time.  Tweaking, balancing... pushing the limits of
limited hardware.  Inventing sounds rather than stealing/tweaking premade stuff.
Making a game thats both fun, and yet had great challenge and replay value...


 People like me, (real game classic lovers)  get real grumpy when they see that there hasnt
been more than a handful of games in the last 20 yrs that is worthy of buying or playing.

 That there is literally no challenge or difficulty in games. (nor originality)   Its basically all gimmicks.

 If anyone actually put forth a real effort... and didnt make all those lame Zero gameplay 'gimmick
games'... our arcades wouldnt have became extinct.


 IMOP,  Id say you got it in reverse.  Its gimmicky crap like this thats so lame, that it sucks the soul
right out of  'Video Game'.  (of course, this is way better than something like Namco's Alpine racer,
or even worse.. that river raft paddle simulator game they had made. uggg )


 Missile Command will live on forever.   The gimmick will be forgotten shortly.


 Whats more amazing... is that even big companies tried to remake the game, and failed
horribly.   Its such a simply game... yet they tweaked the gameplay to make it the worst
playing version that Id ever had touched.   Simply boggles the mind how poor development
quality is in these modern times...  Especially given that we have so much more power
at out disposal.

 

[RayB]

Thank you for protecting the original creators of Missile Command from such insulting use of the common phrase "best ____ ever".
 

[koolmoecraig]

 If you want to say its cool.. then fine...  I can agree with that to a degree...

 But  "Best ever" ?  Not even close man.    Thats like a slap in the face
to the creators of the Original.     You know... the guys who slaved over their computers for
18+ hrs a day for months at a time.  Tweaking, balancing... pushing the limits of
limited hardware.  Inventing sounds rather than stealing/tweaking premade stuff.
Making a game thats both fun, and yet had great challenge and replay value...


 People like me, (real game classic lovers)  get real grumpy when they see that there hasnt
been more than a handful of games in the last 20 yrs that is worthy of buying or playing.

 That there is literally no challenge or difficulty in games. (nor originality)   Its basically all gimmicks.

 If anyone actually put forth a real effort... and didnt make all those lame Zero gameplay 'gimmick
games'... our arcades wouldnt have became extinct.


 IMOP,  Id say you got it in reverse.  Its gimmicky crap like this thats so lame, that it sucks the soul
right out of  'Video Game'.  (of course, this is way better than something like Namco's Alpine racer,
or even worse.. that river raft paddle simulator game they had made. uggg )


 Missile Command will live on forever.   The gimmick will be forgotten shortly.


 Whats more amazing... is that even big companies tried to remake the game, and failed
horribly.   Its such a simply game... yet they tweaked the gameplay to make it the worst
playing version that Id ever had touched.   Simply boggles the mind how poor development
quality is in these modern times...  Especially given that we have so much more power
at out disposal.

 

Great points.  Agree 100%

[patrickl]

I'm pretty sure shmokes didn't mean "best" in a literal sense. Hence the valley speak.

Geez, get a sense of humor already.

[shmokes]

Jesus . . . the voice of reason.  LMAO

Again, Xiaou, stop being a dork. 

A #1, the Missile Command developers were not ---smurfing--- working 18+ hours per day for months on end.  Don't be a drama queen.  B #2, there have been hundreds (or at least dozens, but probably hundreds) of games released in the past 20 years that were worth buying.  Again, don't be a drama queen.  C #3, gimmicky games did not cause the death of arcades, home consoles did.  Gimmicks were a response to the death of the arcade, not the cause of it.  Arcades needed to be able to provide an experience that couldn't be had at home.  They did this by using big gimmicks like skiing or poking a giant plastic finger into a butt-hole -- things not easily duplicated on home consoles.

And D #4, it's the title of a thread meant to bring people in to see an awesome, hilarious video, not an essay about the merits of trackball missile command vs. multi-touch surface Missile Command (and it's a figure of speech, for christ's sake).  So, yeah, don't be a dork.

That goes for your supporters too.   

[Xiaou2]

A #1, the Missile Command developers were not ---smurfing--- working 18+ hours per day for months on end.

 Ive heard/read many documentary's about games developed at that period, and their hours
were just that insane.   The programming methods back them were a lot more difficult.
They also had insane timeframes to get things produced.  And finally, they had to balance the
gameplay perfectly... because a game too hard would turn people off... and too easy would
cause Op's to lose profits.   They spent a lot more time and effort where it mattered
most: in gameplay.  (something thats extremely rare today)


B #2, there have been hundreds (or at least dozens, but probably hundreds) of games released in the past 20 years that were worth buying.

 That would be your opinion.   Sure, I may have exaggerated a 'little'..  but overall, its
dismal and disappointing.

 
gimmicky games did not cause the death of arcades, home consoles did.  Gimmicks were a response to the death of the arcade, not the cause of it.  Arcades needed to be able to provide an experience that couldn't be had at home.  They did this by using big gimmicks like skiing or poking a giant plastic finger into a butt-hole -- things not easily duplicated on home consoles.

 Just listen to yourself.   You really believe that sticking a giant finger in a butt is going
to pull people in, and or away from their home system?!  get real.     
 
 As for Skiing... it Might have been cool IF it would have been done right.  However,
they DUMBED it down so that it was so pathetically unskilled as to be a snore fest.
Its a one time play.  A disappointing one time play... which is what most of those machines
were.  There was one in the arcade I managed..  and it made like 5$ a week.  Was pathetic.

 Same for most of the newer arcade games.  They dumb them down to the point of
it having no challenge or skill needed.  Its merely like a movie instead of an actual
game...   a very Boring movie...



 In the past, arcade companies always kept well far ahead of the technology that
was in consoles.   However, they got lazy and cheap, and decided to keep a bare
minimal lead.    They also did not capitalize on things like motion cockpits for
example...  as all driving games should have had them to maintain the needed
draw.   Other technologies like 3d visors should have been implemented.

 The arcade companies also brought the games to the consoles too quickly.  That
was their choice.

 But also, it wasnt just the gimmicks,  nor the consoles.  It was originality, fun,
and challenge that was missing.    If I see a Robotron when Im out.. I will play it.  Even
though I could play it at home.  Heck, even some consoles play it ok.  However, its just
one of those games that is so good..  you cant resist wanting to play it.   That is what
is missing.  That is what ultimately Killed the Coinop industry.

 
 This missile command isnt a game.  Its an interactive demo.   Just like most so called games today.  "missile command madness"  would have been a more suitable title.   Seems like
there is an entire generation that thinks that a game like super mario is Way too hard...
because they are so used to dumbed down games that require no skill whatsoever. 
Seeing a post that says 'best ever'  just yanks my passionate string.. as I really miss the
old skool dedication to proper game development.   While you may not have been
serious in your quote.. Im almost willing to bet that some people actually Would think
that demo was better...  which is quite sad indeed.


 I dont think anyone has made a better version of missile command to this date.
Hopefully someone, someday, will actually be able to pull it off.   Till then, there is always
mame.


 btw - if you are a follower in Jesus,  then use of his name in the way of an
explicative (or negative way) is really a poor thing to do.   If you dont believe... then its just plain stupid to say it.   And its disrespectful to people who do believe...  And to yourself too.

[AtomSmasher]

 Seems like
there is an entire generation that thinks that a game like super mario is Way too hard...
because they are so used to dumbed down games that require no skill whatsoever. 

Have you played Super Mario Bros. recently?  I remember thinking how tough it was as a kid, but when I played it again a few years ago I made it through the first several levels without dying once and pretty easily made it all the way to the final castle where I couldn't remember the exact route through the maze part.  It's a much easier game then I remembered it being.

It was pretty obvious that smokes wasn't actually saying it was the best missile command ever, but just that it was a pretty awesome take on the game and a cool use of the touch screen.  Obviously the challenge of the game is removed when you have infinite missiles (which is exactly like the laser one you posted, so I don't know why you think that one is more playable).  Although it is entertaining how seriously you took the title and you're rants always make me laugh, so I guess good times were had by all 

[shmokes]

 btw - if you are a follower in Jesus,  then use of his name in the way of an
explicative (or negative way) is really a poor thing to do.   If you dont believe... then its just plain stupid to say it.   And its disrespectful to people who do believe...  And to yourself too.

Again . . . figure of speech.  Also, Jesus is such an easy target that I can't help but blaspheme almost constantly.

 Just listen to yourself.   You really believe that sticking a giant finger in a butt is going
to pull people in, and or away from their home system?!  get real.    
 

Jesus non-existing Christ, you're such a riot.  When did I say anything of the sort?  I said that those games were a response to the death of the arcade, not that they were any good.

[bishmasterb]

This is the BEST. THREAD. EVER.



[Silently waits for Xiaou2 to point out the weaknesses of this thread, and provide examples of many other fine threads which are amazingly better, and then prove that this is indeed the worst thread ever.]   

[Level42]

I agree with Xiauo this time.

That's a demo. It looks fun, but they have to LEAVE the game to get a "Game over" !

The unlimited missiles is not the only spoiler. The mere fact that you can point and launch a defense missile at 10 (or more) spots at the same time completely kills the game. Even whack the mole is harder !

In reality there were horrible and great games then, and there are horrible and great games now. Even Atari was guilty of it in some cases (trying to spit out a "game" with as low number of chips possible).
But yes, in the golden era, there were a number of brilliant people who took the effort and time to balance a game to the ultimate.
All games of that day had pretty simple concepts. The trick was to find the balance. Asteroids is another perfect example. Dead simple concept, but it's never been improved. Tweaking the speeds, the numbers of shots, the length of the shots etc. etc.

Those guys did make long days, but hey, they were playing games, smoking illegal stuff (that is, in your country)  and taking health spa-baths.....I can make long days too that way
But without all that, we wouldn't have those brilliant games now.

So I was thinking, what was the last NEW arcade game I kept wanting to play over and over ? It was Let's Go Jungle from Sega. Yeah, I know it's another rail shooter, but I enjoyed every second of it and it really made me put in more money to go further...


[Edit] With some (a lot ?) tweaking, that demo could be turned into a fun game though....

[ahofle]

I think some of you are seriously missing the point.  It would probably take two minutes to fix the unlimited missiles problem if you had the source code and make the difficulty more like the original.  The simple fact that you can play *coop* missile command by pressing on the screen where you want to fire the ABMs is just plain awesome.  I imagine if done properly and on a large enough screen it would be a nice little aerobic workout.  I'm not sure why anyone would dismiss this concept just because the demo looks too easy or because the original Missile Command programmers worked 23 hours a day shackled to desks in unlit dungeons? 

[NiN^_^NiN]

The problem with limited missles is if your playing co-op then it wouldnt be a good ratio for each player when they touch the board

Altho if you had unlimited touches but only something like 3 missles where u touch that would probably work better

Missle command could be a great tabletop game one is sending the missiles at the city and the other is defending

Anyway whats cool is that anyone could easily build the setup they have all you need is a projector a wiimote and a piece of plexiglass 1 frosted 1 not and IR leds to create what they have and it's pretty cheap too the plexi is the main problem really but i have done this i used a projector and used the shower door to play space invaders (i turned the hot water on and let the steam steamup the glass door so the projector would showup.

Hell you can do it with a fog machine aswell with some dry ice and make it like the projector in seaquest DSV

[Xiaou2]

 A better example of 2 player missile command might be to have 4 bases.   1 player
controls only 2 of them and protects their cities... and or can help to protect the other
players cities as well.   Limited missiles of course.

 And needing dual trackballs,  or use of wimote like pointers (or lightguns).   Touch screen is just lame IMOP. Part of the fun and challenge is rolling the trackball to the correct spots in time.   Simply
touching an exact spot can be done too fast to be any challenge at all.

 
 Also, the idea that simply limiting the missile's per player will totally fix the demo in
2 minutes time is not even close to reality.    Balancing a games difficulty can
take months of tweaking to get it right.     (For examples, look for classic game 'clones'
and compare to originals)

 The game has to get progressively harder as time goes on and the player gets more skilled.   Too easy for too long = snore fest. Too hard too fast = players get discouraged and dont want to play at all.   Level 5's projectiles travel too fast?    Players not earning enough points for extra men needed?
Getting too many extra men?  AI too difficult by level 15?

 

[ahofle]

Also, the idea that simply limiting the missile's per player will totally fix the demo in
2 minutes time is not even close to reality.    Balancing a games difficulty can
take months of tweaking to get it right.     (For examples, look for classic game 'clones'
and compare to originals)

 The game has to get progressively harder as time goes on and the player gets more skilled.   Too easy for too long = snore fest. Too hard too fast = players get discouraged and dont want to play at all.   Level 5's projectiles travel too fast?    Players not earning enough points for extra men needed?
Getting too many extra men?  AI too difficult by level 15?

OK that may have been an exaggeration, but I don't think it would take long to make it MUCH better.  Limiting the total number of missiles, putting a cap on the maximum number of simultaneous missiles on screen, and increasing the speed of the incoming IBMs would immediately make that game better.  Fine tuning would of course take much longer.  I like the touch screen aspects of the coop play because you would more than likely find yourself running into your partner around the middle of the screen, which would be funny. 

[NiN^_^NiN]

Well the video could be a upper level and not the first level?

To fix the trackball problem they could have an icon on the screen where the person has to drag that around the screen to shoot the missles where he wants instead of touching the screen this would give you a better style of play and also could make it harder (it shrinks every few levels?

Still there are alot of different things you could do to make it better but thats a good game to show the ability of multitouch i think hell they might of only did the game in a few days

[Xiaou2]

 The line draw is certainly a much better idea for control.


 
 I just had another interesting Idea for a 2player remake...

 
 Not sure about this...  but maybe a network or dual monitor version.   Basically,
you launch missiles against each other.    You can either shoot others missiles down,
or fire them up towards the other player... which will then rain down on them at the angle you launched them at (horizontal screen wrapping *like asteroids*  is on)

 The missiles might have to be a tad faster because of the changes.

 A player might gain additional missiles for bonus points (UFO targets? Powerup Refils?)?  Or from an award system of better accuracy.   Or from not losing as many cities?   

 Player controls 3 guns as usual, and 6 cities.
 

 There could also be Bosses and other odd enemies as well.

 May be a set "reload" time period to help keep players from ratteling off too many
shots per time period.