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Author Topic: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???  (Read 3071 times)

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Lilwolf

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soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« on: April 27, 2008, 07:01:50 pm »
Ok, I have a betson 27" multisync monitor.   Have soft15khz running GREAT (especially now that I removed all the interlaced modes)...  But I have some questions.

I'm trying to run vertical games on it.  But MAME is kinda screwing them up a bit.  It seems like mame isn't taking the aspect ratio into account when it figures out the resolution. 

So, tell me if I'm wrong.  Upndown, runs native at 224x256... Is mame finds the closest resolution that matchs (256x256)... Trouble is that after the aspect ratio is taken into account, the 256 native width wont work with the 224, so it stretchs it anyway (and it looks like its stretching down).  Shouldn't it pick a resultion which is wider so if it can?

Or is the problem that I'm letting MAME stretch, and it gets to the closest resolution it can, even if it has to stretch down?   could force the resolution, but it will probably take some creative coding to get it working on all vertical resolutions, but it seems like this isn't the best solution either.

Any advice?

What settings are people using with soft15+betson+vertical games?

btw, everything looks great horizontal! 

Thanks!

ahofle

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 10:56:58 am »
I removed the 'square' resolutions like 240x240 and 256x256 for just that reason.  I use 352x256 for any 256 line vertical games and 384x288 for 288 line verticals.  Then use the horizontal size controls on your Betson to get it to a proper 3:4 aspect ratio.

BTW, with Soft15khz you can have these two very useful modes for newer vertical games with 300 or 320 lines (add to a custom 25khz file):
Modeline "432x324@60" 13.4 432 440 496 536 324 326 330 351 -hsync -vsync
Modeline "416x312@60" 13 416 424 480 520 312 314 318 338 -hsync -vsync

For me, those 2 modelines made this software way better than using an ArcadeVGA.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 10:59:15 am by ahofle »

Lilwolf

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 01:02:01 pm »
Thanks!  I'll try that.

Ummon

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 03:47:05 pm »
Or, another way, you have to increase by some integer value the horizontal resolution. Check out easymamecab. It pretty much explains it all.

As well, this page claims an easier (if not similar) way of thinking about it:

embedded mame
Yo. Chocolate.


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northerngames

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 08:28:00 pm »
I run mine with the same settings that was used with the arcade vga card I swapped the card and used the soft15k tool but did not change any other settings and left them the same as the arcadevga settings and everything seems fine to me both vertical and horizonal type's.

Lilwolf

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 02:28:48 pm »
I know thats the solution, the trouble is that it needs to be done for every game seperately.  I still say its a mame bug for trying to find the best resolution before it takes into account for the aspect ratio.  It should rotate, get aspect ration, find minimal resolution with the blank areas, THEN find the best resolution.  Whats happening now is that it rotates, finds the best resolution, then creates the blank area and stretches down :(

Seems like it should be automatic, and should always look for the next bigger size when it can.  Stretching larger is better then loosing resoluiton.


Or, another way, you have to increase by some integer value the horizontal resolution. Check out easymamecab. It pretty much explains it all.

As well, this page claims an easier (if not similar) way of thinking about it:

embedded mame

Ummon

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 08:08:36 pm »
I think you're not getting it. However the following things, I think, are why it's confusing:

1. horizontal refresh tells you almost nothing.

2. lines drawn is inversely proportional to pixels drawn - ie: a resolution of 640x480 pixels is 480x640 lines.

3. CRT displays draw lines, whereas games are coded in pixels. (This is probably the biggest factor in confusion, translating pixels to lines drawn.)

4. CRT displays draw the same - the length of the monitor, across, then down - regardless of physical orientation. Lines drawn are always given in the same order.

5. because games are coded in pixels, the order of the resolution values will change.


(Anyone correct me here if needed.)


For vertical games displayed horizontally, this page really addresses it:

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/monitor8.htm
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

Lilwolf

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 10:58:08 pm »
ok, 640x480 is now 480x640...  But when you have keep aspect ratio, it will now add some space around the 480 for the black space.   And it will add enough so that the ratio is correct.  Now you have a 4x3 monitor and trying to draw a 3x4 in it... you could easy calculate how much to add (don't have paper here) but i'm guessing it will be a little less then double.  So maybe 900x640... that is what it wants as a size. 

The trouble is that its picking the resolution that is closest to the 480x640, not the 900x640.  So then it is stretching down.... Or at least this is what seems to be whats happening.

as for the 15hz... yes, this doesn't matter... but soft15khz adds a bunch of resolutions by default.  I have removed a few and some people have talked about removing others just so they aren't used in vertical mode.

northerngames

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2008, 09:57:51 am »
I gotcha I dont think you are running the ultimarc avgain tool

http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip

DL that and follow the directions.

this tool will set all the mame games at the correct res's where instead of doing them one by one there all done in one shot.

this will save a few months of configuring  :cheers:

Ummon

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 08:32:35 pm »
I gotcha I dont think you are running the ultimarc avgain tool

http://www.ultimarc.com/avres.zip

DL that and follow the directions.

this tool will set all the mame games at the correct res's where instead of doing them one by one there all done in one shot.

this will save a few months of configuring  :cheers:

I tried that. But some didn't work for my monitor, or some games' geometry conflicted with one another. I don't have more than 300 or 400 games so I went and did it manually. Actually, that's why I love Advancemame, it picks for me.


ok, 640x480 is now 480x640...  But when you have keep aspect ratio, it will now add some space around the 480 for the black space.   And it will add enough so that the ratio is correct.  Now you have a 4x3 monitor and trying to draw a 3x4 in it... you could easy calculate how much to add (don't have paper here) but i'm guessing it will be a little less then double.  So maybe 900x640... that is what it wants as a size. 

The trouble is that its picking the resolution that is closest to the 480x640, not the 900x640.  So then it is stretching down.... Or at least this is what seems to be whats happening.

as for the 15hz... yes, this doesn't matter... but soft15khz adds a bunch of resolutions by default.  I have removed a few and some people have talked about removing others just so they aren't used in vertical mode.

Again, that's why I love Advancemame. Just as and experiential tool it's very helpful.
Yo. Chocolate.


"Theoretical physics has been the most successful and cost-effective in all of science."

Stephen Hawking


People often confuse expressed observations with complaint, ridicule, or - even worse - self-pity.

northerngames

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Re: soft15kz + horizontal multisync + vertical = ???
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2008, 10:49:56 am »
what type of video card are you using?

it may be the same set-up like mine whee it has a low res's it cannot handle but sailor has a file for it you place in the soft15k folder and then you click on the soft15kinstall instead of the custom usermode one.

perhaps you used the custom usermode stuff instead?