Arcade VGA 2 or alternative video card ?

[cmv004]

Ive built one other arcade using an arcade VGA and was pleased with the results, however I am currently building another arcade and would like some suggestions(or links to previous posts) about a cheaper and possibly better alternative to ultimarc's product. The computer has an AGP slot but it has been hard to find specs on a card able to produce the 15Khz that will work with the standard res monitor.

Yes I know this topic has probably been covered a thousands times so am sorry for the repetition.  Any suggestions or links will help.

Thanks
 

[ahofle]

The ArcadeVGA comes in both AGP and PCIe and is the easiest route.  You can also look into a software solution like Soft15khz which works with most standard video cards.  Check the sticky post at the top of the monitor forum for more info on Soft15khz.

[cmv004]

Yeah I remember reading about the soft 15Khz software when I googled for information about it.  The only drawback they seemed to report is that even in a forced video mode it would not look as authentic as would Arcade VGA on the original monitor (due to video hiccups or glitches).  I have never used the program so for those using it any relevance or experience to that claim...good or bad?

[ahofle]

That's the first time I've heard about it not looking as authentic as an ArcadeVGA. 
Since you already have a cabinet with an AVGA, I would try out Soft15khz on the 2nd one and compare the two side by side.  If you are unhappy, just get an AVGA.

[Ummon]

I think the avga has a default color scheme that is brighter than your average card. Otherwise, I think 15khz is 15khz.

[northerngames]

I just sold my arcadevga2 to try out soft15K and a radeon X1650

arcadevga can handle the boot screen safely and display them correctly

soft15k cannot handle them and possibly damage your monitor becuaseit display's in 31k mode until windows starts.

only two remedy's know to get past that safely is leave the monitor off until windows start's wich you would have to listen to your sound in order to do that.

or you can use a pci card and set it as your priority card in your bois setting and also disable it in windows and just leave it in the pci slot without any moniotr hooked up to it.

then when powered on al the bios screens go to the pci card that has no monitor hooked to it at all and then when windows starts that card goes off becuase it was disabled in windows and then your secondary card take it place wich is the card of choice in the agp slot running the soft 15K

I could tell a difference from a ati 128mb 9250 pro to a ati X1650 pro 512mb.

both methods work good the arcadevga is pretty much ready to go out of the box and is all set as is but soft 15K can pretty much do the same with some tinkering but the huge amount of extra horsepower in newer cards of choice cannot be ignored either. 

[brandon]

I have an X1550 and I've had lots of trouble getting it to do many of the lower resolutions with Soft 15khz...  you might save some money if you can get a different card to work but I'm beginning to think I should've just sprung for the AVGA to save myself headaches in the long run.. I could be doing something wrong... YMMV

[cmv004]

Yeah it is definitely the  extra power out of new video cards and the fact that an AGP x1650 you can get for lower than the outdated 9250 AVGA card from ultimarc that has me on the ropes for deciding which route to take. 

[Ummon]

I could tell a difference from a ati 128mb 9250 pro to a ati X1650 pro 512mb.

What kind of difference?

[cmv004]

Thanks everyone for the input...I've decided on a 512 ATI x1650 pro AGP for my dell 4600 with upgraded power supply.  I looked over the 15khz more and it seems to be a great piece of software so I'll give it a whirl here sometime friday and let you all know what I think.

[northerngames]

I could tell a difference from a ati 128mb 9250 pro to a ati X1650 pro 512mb.

What kind of difference?

better performance all around

better movement processing

more colors allowed

better shaders

made for pc's of this time era so everything runs smoother

alot of great pc games that would never have ran work like a charm now

[brandon]

so was the X1650 able to run all the 15khz resolutions from Soft 15khz?  I have an X1550 and it SUCKS

[Ummon]

better performance all around

better movement processing

more colors allowed

better shaders

made for pc's of this time era so everything runs smoother

alot of great pc games that would never have ran work like a charm now

So mostly things not related to retro Mame games?

so was the X1650 able to run all the 15khz resolutions from Soft 15khz?  I have an X1550 and it SUCKS

I bet his is GDDR2. I have an X1600XT (256mb) GDDR3, and have no problems.

[brandon]

This is the one I have...  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102704   It will do 15khz but it wont do any of these resolutions..

256 240 60Hz
256 256 60Hz
256 264 60Hz
288 240 60Hz
296 240 60Hz
304 240 60Hz
321 240 60Hz
321 256 60Hz
336 240 60Hz
352 256 60Hz
352 264 60Hz
352 288 50Hz
368 240 60Hz
384 288 50Hz
392 240 60Hz
401 256 53Hz

[northerngames]

better performance all around

better movement processing

more colors allowed

better shaders

made for pc's of this time era so everything runs smoother

alot of great pc games that would never have ran work like a charm now

So mostly things not related to retro Mame games?

yeah pretty much the old one's already have more then enough but newer games need more power.

so was the X1650 able to run all the 15khz resolutions from Soft 15khz?  I have an X1550 and it SUCKS

I bet his is GDDR2. I have an X1600XT (256mb) GDDR3, and have no problems.

mine is a x1650 pro ddr2 512 128

I read on a few boards that the X1550 lack's certian things where certian games will work on a X1650+ or on a lower end card then the X1550 but the lower end card will run the game fine where the x1550's are excluded from them completely becuase they are lacking certian things that the other cards have.

how true this is I dunno but I did some research before I bought my new x1650 and the X1550 is what I was after origanly but after I had read about the problems that I speak of that it had with certian games I went with the x1650 instead.

I may be able to find the forum or wherever I seen it and post a link.

[brandon]

well.. I'm thinking about getting a X700, or a Geforce 6600 or 7600... but if the X1650 will do what I need to I'll get one of those..  PC gaming isnt a major concern since the CPU is only a AthlonXP 2000+..  but I still want to be able to play older games like HOTD 1&2, GTA: Vice City and Need For Speed series..

[northerngames]

I dont know for sure but it looks like the geforce cards are having many problems with soft15k but I could be wrong but if you want a geforce I would check with the creator of soft15k to see if it is compatable or not.

[brandon]

there are several geforce cards that are compatible but there seem to be a limit with how many resolutions you can add and its a bug in the drivers... BUT  I was only able to add about 30-40 with the ATI any way so I'm not that worried about it.. I really dont think you need that many custom resolutions because the AVGA doesnt support that many and it covers all the bases so...

[brandon]

does your x1650 have a TV out??  I wonder if having a TV out has anything to do with a cards ability to do lower 15khz resolutions?

[northerngames]

the one I have for the tv part outputs HDTV / S-Video / Composite Out

it has DVI, VGA, and S-video jacks on the card. 

[Ummon]

TV out has nothing to do with it. It seems the 1550 excludes low pixel clocks and this could be driver or bios related. If not expensive, then I'd get a 1600 or 1650.

[cmv004]

Well my card didn't come today...looks like saturday or monday.  When it does get here though I will finish the build and tell you how the 15Khz soft tool worked for a variety of games. 

[brandon]

TV out has nothing to do with it. It seems the 1550 excludes low pixel clocks and this could be driver or bios related. If not expensive, then I'd get a 1600 or 1650.

but maybe they omitted the lower pixel clock in the bios because normally its not necessary for PC but wouldn't cards with TV out need lower pixel clocks because of the NTSC/PAL standards?

[Ummon]

TV out has nothing to do with it. It seems the 1550 excludes low pixel clocks and this could be driver or bios related. If not expensive, then I'd get a 1600 or 1650.

but maybe they omitted the lower pixel clock in the bios because normally its not necessary for PC but wouldn't cards with TV out need lower pixel clocks because of the NTSC/PAL standards?

Hmhmhmhm. Instead of brain-storming, why don't you look in the wiki, as well as here.