Snitching Good Or Bad Idea?

[ark_ader]

I work as a contractor to a large organisation, whom most of you probably have done business with at some time or another.  I work with a large team of people all dedicated to support customers on technical questions, solutions etc. for several products.  All are equals in rank and responsibility.

The team is close nit, but we have a very good morale, and we all get together and do the corporate events like softball and relays, BBQ and parties.  You could say we have a family like environment.

We have two new members of our team, that are pretty cool and know their "stuff", but being new their work habits are different, but on the surface act normal enough.

Today I noticed that one of these new guys started working on the helpdesk with us, but is browsing on the internet more than we all do. The work he does is within company policy and service level agreements. 

What I found out today by sheer chance is that this new guy is circumventing the helpdesk telephone system and not doing his job answering the calls.  We work in a cube environment so we all have some "space to work the problem out".   I noticed the proxy activity as I run the LAN.

Here is the dilemma:

Do I take the guy to one side and expose his little game and save him from getting the chop?

Do I tell the whole team and let them deal with this character as a collective?

Do I document his activity and report the issue when he will eventually get caught?

Do I quietly tell the boss?

I know if I just snitch on the guy I will look like the  jerk and the whole team will distance themselves from me as nobody likes a snitch.  But we get a bonus on customer feedback from the service we provide and this new guy is wrecking it.

What is the modern day solution?  I checked the web and it all looks bad for the grass.  But today money is more important, right?  I have no problem with the guy's personality, just his work ethic/behavior.

Its puzzling.   

[danny_galaga]

best approach seems to me to talk to him first. then if he is recalcitrant, go further. dont threaten him at first though, since the aim is to get him to ammend his ways. he wont do thatif threatened...

[shardian]

I would say discreetly talk to him about it. Explain the bonus thing, and also that if you noticed, eventually someone less forgiving is also bound to find out. His reaction to your advice will tell you what to do next.

[myntik1]

In the past I've always pulled a co-worker to the side and discussed any issues I have with them.  And generally we're able to work things out.  If it persists then pursue another course of action.  If it's a girl all bets are off.  In my experiences guys take work criticism better than women.  A woman's first response is to rally the troops against you and run you out of town.

[shmokes]

Do I tell the whole team and let them deal with this character as a collective?

That sounds ominous. 

[hypernova]

I agree with shardian's approach.  The obvious solution is to confer with him about his shortcomings.

It looks like everyone agrees that's the best course of action.  Except that's probably what you were thinking of doing in the first place, I'd bet.  So long as you do it the right way.  And the right way is so damn hard to nail down.  shardian gave one of the better ways of doing it.  We had to read a book for our company, and the one thing I took from it is when you're trying to converse with someone about something that can evoke negative emotions, you don't use the word "you" as in "You aren't doing what you need to be doing."  Instead, you must consider how to reword things in a helpful light.  As in "Is there anything that I or anyone here can do to help?"

I know this sounds really generic in my example, but work ethic today with the younger generation is sketchy.  Really sketchy.  And even though you're right, and they're wrong, you still have to approach it cautiously.

Sometimes, no matter how much you sugar coat something, a person will take offense.  This can, and should be expected.  I would recommend a few weeks at least for things to return to normal...although in this case, normal was the problem, so we'd want better than normal, as in him doing his job.

As mentioned previously, his reaction, both immediate and prolonged, will tell you what to do next.

Do I document his activity and report the issue when he will eventually get caught?

If this occurs, which I doubt you should be doing, as it's more of a task for the person's superior, not his coworker, I assume you mean document with tangible proof (internet tracking and login info and whatnot that isn't subjective.)

Do I tell the whole team and let them deal with this character as a collective?

This...can lead to an unhappy workforce.  Because then everyone knows about the person, but generally no one's willing to do anything about it, which only increases the animosity for the person.  Pretty soon, everyone's talking about everyone else behind their back.

Do I quietly tell the boss?

Your best option if your first mode of action doesn't produce results within a month or so.  And of course, professionally is the way to disclose it, rather than with emotion.

[FrizzleFried]

This thread ought to be pretty funny since 90% of us are slacking off when posting here. 

Hey!   I resemble that remark!!!

[lcddream]

write an anonymous email to the bosses. Why should you have to straighten him out.

[ChadTower]

Pull him aside, tell him you know what he's doing and that it is affecting your bonus.  I would find that unacceptable too.  Give him a chance to stop.  If he doesn't, tell the boss.  Don't give him long to do it.  It only takes a day to stop breaking rules.

[ark_ader]

Well he got found out by the team, and all is well. 

He didn't make his probation and was dismissed.

We had some angry customers saying that once they called in they were put on hold for more than an hour.  It didn't take long to find the problem.  We answer the calls in less than 20 secs

Some loud harsh words, then the boss came in and took him away. 

Heck the even boss took us out to lunch too. 

Score!     

I was realling it last night.  I know now how whistle blowers feel.

Anyway thanks for the great replies.   

[Ginsu Victim]

Everything ChadTower said. Exactly what I was going to say....

[Le Chuck]

best approach seems to me to talk to him first. then if he is recalcitrant, go further. dont threaten him at first though, since the aim is to get him to ammend his ways. he wont do thatif threatened...

Repped for using the word "recalcitrant"

[Dawgz Rule]

I noticed the proxy activity as I run the LAN.

Dawgz says to self, "I finally understand"

Up-vote to Ark for his incorrect spelling of "Snitching".   

[Thenasty]

6 years then you realize spelling error? 

[Howard_Casto]

Up-vote for Thenasty for being the voice of reason.

[Le Chuck]

Howie, Nasty, and Doggie upped for keeping it real 

[Howard_Casto]

Pity Rep for Le Chuck.... we'll dig you out of Saint's hole somehow.  (That sounded dirty.)

[danny_galaga]

best approach seems to me to talk to him first. then if he is recalcitrant, go further. dont threaten him at first though, since the aim is to get him to ammend his ways. he wont do thatif threatened...

Repped for using the word "recalcitrant"

Word

[ark_ader]

I noticed the proxy activity as I run the LAN.

Dawgz says to self, "I finally understand"

Up-vote to Ark for his incorrect spelling of "Snitching".   

So what's the correct spelling?  Ratting?

Up vote to Dawgz for making me read that long post of mine again. 

[Xiaou2]

 Its one thing to surf the net and mess around here and there...   
 but quite another, to ditch the responsibilities of your job, going so far as to rig the system.

 IMO, a person who doesnt report that, is also partially to blame for its continuance, as well as the negative effects on the Business, that results from customers getting so ticked off that they end up terminating further relations.

 It doesnt take many bad apples to spoil a whole barrel...  as many a company have been destroyed by such individuals.  As well as the people whom didnt speak up, and or the same corrupt people who were in Mgt.

 If it were me, Id have either talked with the boss... or at very least, left an anonymous plain text printed note.

 Not only do you get rid of the people whom are not worthy... but also open spots for people whom are desperately seeking... and truly deserve it.

 The negative rep they earn, is its own Karma.  They can learn from it, and grow.. or repeat it, and continue to flail and fail.

[ark_ader]

 Its one thing to surf the net and mess around here and there...   
 but quite another, to ditch the responsibilities of your job, going so far as to rig the system.

 IMO, a person who doesnt report that, is also partially to blame for its continuance, as well as the negative effects on the Business, that results from customers getting so ticked off that they end up terminating further relations.

 It doesnt take many bad apples to spoil a whole barrel...  as many a company have been destroyed by such individuals.  As well as the people whom didnt speak up, and or the same corrupt people who were in Mgt.

 If it were me, Id have either talked with the boss... or at very least, left an anonymous plain text printed note.

 Not only do you get rid of the people whom are not worthy... but also open spots for people whom are desperately seeking... and truly deserve it.

 The negative rep they earn, is its own Karma.  They can learn from it, and grow.. or repeat it, and continue to flail and fail.

Well I got promoted and ended up being the boss.  I instantly stopped all call avoidance methods, including the mute button (and walking away for a drink) trick.  Best part was making the whole team redundant and getting a bonus.  But that is another story.

[pbj]

BBQ and softball in England?

Tell us another one, pal.

[ark_ader]

BBQ and softball in England?

Tell us another one, pal.

They call it rounders, but for you guys its softball. Happy now? 

[jennifer]

     Jennifer would be all like in the big bosses office, "**Spreadsheets in hand" Dramatically pointing out the problem in sector 8.

[pbj]

My rule is I don't snitch until my workflow is personally affected three times.  People have their off days.  Coworker ---smurfing--- one of the secretaries in his office?  Don't worry, people will get sick of it eventually.

Personally I think it's hilarious that we're expected to "look busy" all the time even when there's nothing to do and everyone knows it.  Particularly when the boss says something like, "if you don't have enough to do, I will give you more to do" when she's spending 7 hours a day on Amazon because you're already carrying the department load.

I did tech support for awhile and got a "you need to look busy" talk.  My response was, "if I'm not busy that means I'm doing my job well, you are paying me for availability." 

Turned out it was an old ---smurfette--- that didn't feel like doing her job anymore and was trying to pawn duties off onto me, which would have completely interfered with what they were paying me to do.

99% of the time, it's an old ---smurfette---.

Don't be an old ---smurfette---.

[danny_galaga]

best approach seems to me to talk to him first. then if he is recalcitrant, go further. dont threaten him at first though, since the aim is to get him to ammend his ways. he wont do thatif threatened...

Repped for using the word "recalcitrant"

Word

Bummer. I finally get 'rep', and now it isn't a thing anymore 

[Grasshopper]

Best part was making the whole team redundant and getting a bonus.  But that is another story.

 

So let me get this straight, you were getting your knickers in a twist over some guy wasting a bit of time on the Internet (even though it didn't affect you personally), but you saw no moral issues in accepting a bonus for facilitating a process that resulted in a group of people losing their livelihoods?

You've got a really weird sense of right and wrong.

[Agation]

well everyone has their own ideology of right and wrong

[ark_ader]

Best part was making the whole team redundant and getting a bonus.  But that is another story.

 

So let me get this straight, you were getting your knickers in a twist over some guy wasting a bit of time on the Internet (even though it didn't affect you personally), but you saw no moral issues in accepting a bonus for facilitating a process that resulted in a group of people losing their livelihoods?

You've got a really weird sense of right and wrong.

Remember this is an old thread.  The guy was call avoiding, which damages the department's KPIs and puts in Jeopardy the business Service Level Agreement (SLA), which we were getting monitored by our client.  From a worker's point of view this can be extremely worrying.  Roll on couple of years and I am a project manager for the client.  I cut costs and sack everyone and move the call centre to Poland.

This accomplishes two things.  I help the Polish find work, and I sack the lazy Brits who are not performing their job well enough, and I reduce costs and transition the business to people who want to do the job for less money.  Everyone from BT to SKY have been doing it for years.  What is wrong with that?  I also got a bonus too.  Ka'ching. 

Heck its an American business ideology that Nike has used to full effect.

It's just good business.  Right and wrong doesn't come into it.  I'm sure the NHS is next on the chopping block. 

[Vigo]

Well, so much for the close-nit team with a family like environment. Way to sell off your team for a few thousand quid. I guess making people actually want to work hard for you was too tall of an order so why not take the easy way out. I suppose it is good business if you don't have the ability to raise up a team to a higher degree of performance than an outsourced, foreign call center. 


I may sound bitter, but I work in an office with one to many d-bags who couldn't handle the management job they were promoted to and outsourced their team as a solution. Flash forward a few years, and my office had be realigned from "Corporate HQ" down to "Support Center", and all opportunity and growth is squandered right out of the office. Our management is wondering why they are on the chopping block now, not even thinking about the fact that they are not really managing anyone. The company is grasping at straws for ideas, but there are not enough people to develop solutions to our problems. A third party is not gonna look for ways to be more efficient or cut costs through development (at least without a price). I'm not saying there is never a time to outsource, but it can often be one soft bullet to the head.

[Dawgz Rule]

A strong leader can take a poorly performing team and turn them into a high performance team.  Unfortunately, not everyone is a strong leader and many people are thrust into management roles with little to no experience in leadership.   For some reason, this seems to be common in IT where there is a tendency to believe that strong technical skills  = great leadership skills.

Anyone can be taught how to manage (or project manage).  Not everyone can be a leader.

It's just good business.  Right and wrong doesn't come into it.

No, this is not correct.  Cost is only one variable in the equation.   Right and wrong does come into it.  If the team was performing poorly, this is a direct result of poor leadership....especially if the team was performing well (minus the one person) before you took charge.

[ark_ader]

A strong leader can take a poorly performing team and turn them into a high performance team.  Unfortunately, not everyone is a strong leader and many people are thrust into management roles with little to no experience in leadership.   For some reason, this seems to be common in IT where there is a tendency to believe that strong technical skills  = great leadership skills. D

Anyone can be taught how to manage (or project manage).  Not everyone can be a leader.

It's just good business.  Right and wrong doesn't come into it.

No, this is not correct.  Cost is only one variable in the equation.   Right and wrong does come into it.  If the team was performing poorly, this is a direct result of poor leadership....especially if the team was performing well (minus the one person) before you took charge.

I totally agree but it was too late, and it was the best solution.  Management signed off on the deal and after training the new staff, they (the client) started culling in other parts of the country.  I even got around the legal issues by offering the redundant staff jobs in the post room.  Once they declined we cut them loose.

If you ever watched the margin call on Netflix, the beginning of the film brought back memories of how the staff was let go.  It would be a nice business to start an oursourcing consultancy.  Lots of money there.

[Vigo]

All I can say is that I hope your company isn't chopping its head off right now. 

[Grasshopper]

Remember this is an old thread.  The guy was call avoiding, which damages the department's KPIs and puts in Jeopardy the business Service Level Agreement (SLA), which we were getting monitored by our client.  From a worker's point of view this can be extremely worrying.  Roll on couple of years and I am a project manager for the client.  I cut costs and sack everyone and move the call centre to Poland.

This accomplishes two things.  I help the Polish find work, and I sack the lazy Brits who are not performing their job well enough, and I reduce costs and transition the business to people who want to do the job for less money.  Everyone from BT to SKY have been doing it for years.  What is wrong with that?  I also got a bonus too.  Ka'ching. 

Heck its an American business ideology that Nike has used to full effect.

It's just good business.  Right and wrong doesn't come into it.  I'm sure the NHS is next on the chopping block. 

You can't have it both ways. Your earlier comments about a "close knit" team and "family like" atmosphere ring pretty hollow now. If you genuinely value those things then you have to demonstrate it through your actions. And those actions obviously don't include taking a bonus for making people redundant.

Sure, If you're willing to ignore all ethical and moral considerations (which you clearly are), you can manage people by creating a dog eat dog environment in which everyone's expendable. But that's not the way to get the best out of people. If you treat people like crap, then you'll inevitably have problems with recruitment, retention and morale. Your staff will also have no respect and loyalty to you or your company. And that will inevitably lead to the type of behaviour that caused you to start this thread in the first place.

When it comes too business ethics, we could learn a lot from the Japanese. Over there, making people redundant is actually a source of deep shame for managers. It's a sign that they've failed both their workforce and their company. Obviously tough business decisions sometimes have to be made. But it would be practically unthinkable for a Japanese manager to accept a bonus for sacking someone. And you certainly wouldn't see them bragging about it on an Internet forum.

[mcseforsale]

just do what I did.  Set the proxy server to redirect to your local unemployment office website when he goes to his favorite hangout. 


(although I did get in trouble for that one. )

AJ

[ark_ader]

Remember this is an old thread.  The guy was call avoiding, which damages the department's KPIs and puts in Jeopardy the business Service Level Agreement (SLA), which we were getting monitored by our client.  From a worker's point of view this can be extremely worrying.  Roll on couple of years and I am a project manager for the client.  I cut costs and sack everyone and move the call centre to Poland.

This accomplishes two things.  I help the Polish find work, and I sack the lazy Brits who are not performing their job well enough, and I reduce costs and transition the business to people who want to do the job for less money.  Everyone from BT to SKY have been doing it for years.  What is wrong with that?  I also got a bonus too.  Ka'ching. 

Heck its an American business ideology that Nike has used to full effect.

It's just good business.  Right and wrong doesn't come into it.  I'm sure the NHS is next on the chopping block. 

You can't have it both ways. Your earlier comments about a "close knit" team and "family like" atmosphere ring pretty hollow now. If you genuinely value those things then you have to demonstrate it through your actions. And those actions obviously don't include taking a bonus for making people redundant.

Sure, If you're willing to ignore all ethical and moral considerations (which you clearly are), you can manage people by creating a dog eat dog environment in which everyone's expendable. But that's not the way to get the best out of people. If you treat people like crap, then you'll inevitably have problems with recruitment, retention and morale. Your staff will also have no respect and loyalty to you or your company. And that will inevitably lead to the type of behaviour that caused you to start this thread in the first place.

When it comes too business ethics, we could learn a lot from the Japanese. Over there, making people redundant is actually a source of deep shame for managers. It's a sign that they've failed both their workforce and their company. Obviously tough business decisions sometimes have to be made. But it would be practically unthinkable for a Japanese manager to accept a bonus for sacking someone. And you certainly wouldn't see them bragging about it on an Internet forum.

Japanese? Really?

That is a stretch.  Have you been to Japan?  They are not the kind of people I would look on as role models.  My Dad could have told you a thing or two about the Japanese in Burma.  They are ruthless. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.  They would sell anything to get a bonus.  They have no ethics what so ever.  I think you are confusing them with Koreans.  Now there is bunch you can learn from.  More honorable.

If you are complacent you are in danger of being kicked.  Plenty of hungry people that would like your job.  And more skilled too.  Just think of it as a unique way of matchmaking.


I went through some of my documents I had on my college hard drive and found this one which explains my reasoning behind my comments of Japanese outsourcing methods, via this document available on line at:

http://ashley-bush.com/pdf/ISTTiwanaBushTsuji2008.pdf

It is a concise research into outsourcing by Japanese IT managers, and their decision methods. 

I can try to pull up more if you wish, just let me know.   

Actually here is an earlier (good read) paper that poopoos your Japanese ethic theory in more detail:

http://ashley-bush.com/pdf/JMISTiwanaBush2007.pdf

[ark_ader]

All I can say is that I hope your company isn't chopping its head off right now. 

I'm not with them now, but last time I looked they had an extremely good year.  I would like to look at the statistics of sourcing IT back from India to the USA.  Especially with consumer confidence being an all time low, and the language barrier.  Considering now how salaries have dropped in the past 4 years.

 

[Dawgz Rule]

Just do what I did.  Set the proxy server to redirect to your local unemployment office website when he goes to his favorite hangout. 
(although I did get in trouble for that one. )
AJ

Reminds me of when I was a young network engineer and my boss told me to redirect unauthorized websites to "something that nobody would be offended by".....

I set it to pbs.org/barney

Some people found it offensive

[hypernova]

Reminds me of when I was a young network engineer and my boss told me to redirect unauthorized websites to "something that nobody would be offended by".....

I set it to pbs.org/barney

Some people found it offensive

Should've sent them to lolcats.

[mcseforsale]

badgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadgerbadger

SNAKE!

AJ