Gamestop = even worse than I thought

[rhoelsch]

Everyone knows they don't give you much for trades. I expected it. But, I had 20 PS2 games left that didn't sell after my garage sale a few weeks ago, and they've been burning a hole in my "more money for games" wallet ever since. So I start thinking about getting a PSP in the meantime... looking at games, checking out the hardware, everything that most people do that gets them worked up into a frenzy until you absolutely HAVE to have something. This was ok, because I was figuring netting about half of what I was asking at the garage sale. Drove around this week with the bad full o' games in my trunk, just in case I would have time to dump them during the work week. Very hyped about getting a PSP. Today, I couldn't take it any more, and took off work a half hour early and headed with my bag to the nearest Gamestop/whatever monopoly store.

They couldn't take the GTA, because it was an original "hot coffee"-modable version. Said, technically, it's rated X, not M. OK, whatever, I still had another 19 to play with.

$33 store credit total.

Here I was thinking about like $4.50 each or something, and the rest I'd just pony up. What a joke. Unrealistic expectations aside, that's f'ing highway robbery. Damn sure didn't take it.

[hypernova]

Would the GTA be a ebay-able item?  I would figure since it's no longer available commercially, that it would be a "collectible."

What were some of the other games you had?  Any Final Fantasies?

[rhoelsch]

I have a FFVII for PSX; I hear they're worth a lot, for whatever reason.  As far as eBay goes, don't you have to give them a share, and then probably sell the games off piece by piece? Seems like a hassle for that many games.

[DaveMMR]

Although I don't know what prices are going for, I'd pop the GTA on eBay.  Actually with any game, I've had better luck just selling them on eBay individually than taking them to Gamestop or similar.  Yeah, it's a hassle but you'll get more in your pocket by the end of the day. 

Secondly, I don't know what you were selling, but there's some titles that they may be doing you a favor by taking off your hands at all, esp. budget titles, sports games from previous years, Fantavision, etc.

But I'm not sticking up for Gamestop either.  Yes they're trying to make a profit so you can't be surprised when they pay bottom dollar, but as a buyer, it's annoying that many of their used titles are priced only a few dollars cheaper than the new one.   If they're paying everyone a couple of bucks and selling it for close to the same price as a new one, well, now you know why they push you to buy used so often.   

[SavannahLion]

$33 store credit total.

Here I was thinking about like $4.50 each or something, and the rest I'd just pony up.

Shops like Gamesstop will absolutely gouge you on purchases, that's how they stay in resale business. I don't know if they do it anymore, back in the late 80's early 90's, many resellers would have a price guide on new/used/buy games. I used to buy all my games through a mail order company at the time and I remember being stunned that they would pay only 50 cents for a title, but turn around and resell it for $20 USED. 50 cents a title wouldn't even pay for the necessary shipping!

[rhoelsch]

Here was the list (all good games, if not already possessed by 50% of the population)

GTA3
GTA:VC
GTA:SA
MK:DA
MK:D
MK:SM
Tekken Tag
Tekken 5
NFL 2k5
NCAA 2004
SSX3
TM: Black
VF4
Gran T. A-Spec
Intellivision Lives
MOH Frontline
Soul Cal. 2
MLB 03
NBA Live 03
Metal G. Solid

If I try to sell again, what would the lot take? Obviously I have no idea, as evidenced by my ordeal today.  I mean, $100 averages to $5 each, that's a steal, in my opinion, but maybe the whole PS2 thing is more dated than I think...

[DaveMMR]

Here was the list (all good games, if not already possessed by 50% of the population)

GTA3
GTA:VC
GTA:SA
MK:DA
MK:D
MK:SM
Tekken Tag
Tekken 5
NFL 2k5
NCAA 2004
SSX3
TM: Black
VF4
Gran T. A-Spec
Intellivision Lives
MOH Frontline
Soul Cal. 2
MLB 03
NBA Live 03
Metal G. Solid

If I try to sell again, what would the lot take? Obviously I have no idea, as evidenced by my ordeal today.  I mean, $100 averages to $5 each, that's a steal, in my opinion, but maybe the whole PS2 thing is more dated than I think...

Well that's the problem right there.  Old sports titles are not going to be sold for very much used by Gamestop so you're not going to get much for the trade-in.  On top of that, some of those titles are budget titles (that is, they can be bought new for $20, even if they originally sold for $50 and have since become "Greatest Hits" releases).   And then there's age.  You'll get more for recent releases than old releases and many of those games are from earlier in the PS2's life.

So if you were to sell the entire lot, how much would someone pay?  Depends.  If you happen to find someone who just picked up a PS2 and wants an "instant library", you may get $100 or more for it.  Me, I wouldn't pay more than $50 or $60.  And it's not because the collection is "worthless".  It's just that I wouldn't want anything more than a few titles from the list.  Many people may feel the same way.  Which is why I would suggest separate eBay auctions for each one (or small, themed, lots) if you're really striving for top dollar (and don't mind putting forth the effort).  That's the only way you'll get a minimum of $5 for each title. 

And while $33 sounds horrible, it's important to remember that everyday, mass-produced video games are not collectors items in the traditional sense (exceptions exist - no need bring the Nintendo World Championship Cartridge into this).  They're going to go for less with age, not more.  While that does mean you're not going to be getting you're investment back, ever, it also means that if you have a hankering for picking up a copy of the original Crash Bandicoot (for example), you're not shelling out three figures for it. 

[shmokes]

It's a shame what happens to games.  I honestly can't figure it out.  Movies, books, music . . . other artistic mediums retain value.  People still go to the book store to pay full-price for brand new copies of Crime and Punishment, or Don Quixote.  Books written hundreds of years ago, not just hundreds of months ago.  The Wizard of Oz and Casablanca still sell in reasonably high numbers on DVD.  Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon is still a moneymaker. 

What is fundamentally wrong with games that they practically don't exist a year or two after release?  Even before a new system comes out, most games -- even popular games -- have disappeared into obscurity.  Who is still talking about Crackdown or Dead Rising?  Trauma Center? Oblivion?  F.E.A.R.? Viva Pinata?  These games are not even old.  These are games currently out for current-gen systems.  Original Xbox games?  ---smurfing--- forget about it.  Dead.  Never to return.  Strange.

Anyway . . . yeah.  A couple years ago I decided to sell my CD collection of about 120 discs that had been gathering dust for years since the advent of MP3.  They would only buy about half of them (already had too many of the others) and I got $209 for the lot.  I couldn't believe it.  I was thinking I'd walk out with $35 or something.  Instead I walked out with half my collection (actually I gave about half of those to the store clerk cos he was a collector) and about six times as much money as I expected.  Weird that used CDs are worth more than used videogames.

[Havok]

$33 store credit total.

Wow - and that's why I always stay behind the release curve - I am now finally considering buying an original Xbox. I do the same with cars - never buy new, you get screwed...

[btp2k2]

Well that's the problem right there.  Old sports titles are not going to be sold for very much used by Gamestop so you're not going to get much for the trade-in.  On top of that, some of those titles are budget titles

Another thing that factors in is the "if not already possessed by 50% of the population" statement....

When they take in trades, they don't give a rats ass in a snow storm if it is a good game. The only thing going through their mind is "Oh great....another football game to clutter the used bin for 10 months"....

If a game is not so common, or sought after then it will garner a higher value.

[rhoelsch]

Oh, NOW I get it 

"I am skilled in the arts of war, and military tactics, Sire."   (name the movie for extra credit)

[rhoelsch]

Half credit -- Braveheart is one word.

[ahofle]

It's a shame what happens to games.  I honestly can't figure it out.  Movies, books, music . . . other artistic mediums retain value.  People still go to the book store to pay full-price for brand new copies of Crime and Punishment, or Don Quixote. 

LOL seriously?  You can't figure it out?  The guy who complains about the Wii's 'weak' processor power and 'critically important' lack of 5.1 sound?   Games now are more like a status symbol to see who can run the most frames per second at 1920x1080 or have the best pixel shader around.  Once a new 'advancement' is made, everyone suddenly thinks less of the games they used to enjoy.  Hell, people buy two overpriced SLI video cards just for a lame 20% bump in performance. 

[ChadTower]

How many other industries have a wide franchise that will buy back your used, low demand items?

[Samstag]

If you're remotely interested in also renting games, Gamefly is starting to accept game trade-ins as credit for membership fees.  Their offers are better than Game Stop, but still nowhere near what you'd get from Ebay.  And they won't have any interest in your old sports games.

I just looked up a few of your games.  It looks like they won't accept your GTA games, but they'll give you $8.28 for Tekken 5.

[shmokes]

That doesn't account for it.  360 games are forgotten . . . really great 360 games are forgotten within months.  Not just when a new system is released, but when those games are still perfectly viable on the latest-gen hardware.  This does not happen to movies.  Movies continue selling well, and sit on the new release shelves for a long time, often well over a year.  And even when they leave the new release shelf, they remain viable at retail.  Things like Hitch and Spiderman and Narnia are still doing very well at retail.  And it's not just the select few movies that transcend regular market forces.  For christ's sake, I mentioned Hitch.  I'm talking about good movies and bad movies alike.

I've been thinking about it, and I figure it probably has more to do with the time investment than anything else.  A movie is only an hour and a half or so of your time.  You're likely to watch it multiple times over the years.  But a game represents such a big time investment that most of us are forced to be very selective.  So we tend to select whatever is has been put on our radar by the media, which is whatever is new.  This doesn't explain books, so much, since books involve a similar time investment.  But maybe books simply have a MUCH larger audience.  And, of course, there's never really a presumption that newer books will have better technology under the hood than older books.  That probably does play into it, I guess.

[shmokes]

But maybe books simply have a MUCH larger audience.  And, of course, there's never really a presumption that newer books will have better technology under the hood than older books.  That probably does play into it, I guess.

Selective distortion?  I don't think so.  I already acknowledged the larger audience.  That doesn't account for it.  Companies are not just interested in profits.  They're interested in relative profits.  Shelf-space is finite, and movies are released with at least the regularity as games.  The size of the market is largely irrelevant.  If one DVD is more marketable than another, it wins the shelf-space battle.  In videogames that is based almost entirely on release date.  New titles completely displace old titles.  The old titles disappear entirely off of peoples' radars.  And by old, I mean within 6 months more often than not.

[Dartful Dodger]

Games hold up to the test of time.  PacMan or an "arcade classics" put on a PS2 CD(when PS2s were the cutting edge) sold for full-price and people paid for it.  They even sell out dated games like Mortal Kombat that plug into your TV.

The key point is those classic movies are on DVDs. There haven't been to many advances in book technology since Don Quixote was first written.  In fact if monks were writing the books by hand I don't think too many people would pay the thousands of dollars they'd cost.  I also don't think the Beta versions of Wizard of Oz are flying off the shelves and an 8 track of Pink Floyd from the 70s might be worth something, but if they made an 8 track of it now it wouldn't be worth anything.

It’s all a matter of timing.  PS2 games are flooding Game Stop and nobody’s buying them.  A friend of mine traded in his PS2 console, games and peripherals a couple of months before the release of PS3.  They gave him enough credit to buy a PS3. He still says he was raped, but he figured he wouldn't have been able to unload them after the release.

[AtomSmasher]

A good part of shelf space seems to be devoted to "Greatest Hits" titles, or best selling games more then a year old.  Once popular titles more then 6 months old don't get forgotten until the console is obsolete, they just get moved a little farther down the shelf.

[shmokes]

And you completely ignored the format comment. 

Um . . . no I didn't.  Look at the very last thing that I said in the post you were responding to.  I also made this point earlier with a list of great Xbox 360 games that may as well not even exist anymore.  I'm not just talking about games from older systems, though I am talking about that too.

And while it's easy to use that argument in the console space, how do you account for it in the PC market?  A PC (though this has changed somewhat with Vista) can largely play any game released in the last 20 years.  Yet exactly the same dynamic applies. 

[AtomSmasher]

I also made this point earlier with a list of great Xbox 360 games that may as well not even exist anymore. 

4 of the 6 games you listed are currently available at my local Best Buy (3 on the xbox 360 and 1 on the pc), and I bet Crackdown will be available again once its released as a Plantium Hit.  Older games on current systems are still taking up shelf space, they just rarely make headlines anymore so it seems like they've disappeared.  The TV show X-Play even has a regular segment called "Games for Cheap ---daisies---" where they talk about great older games available for $15-30.

[Dartful Dodger]

7 years ago I created this program for a client.  It's a simple program that lets you listen to sound effects and then save them on to your hard drive. Three months ago they started getting complaints that the application wasn't saving files to the hard drive.  We told them they’d have to pay us to update it.  They decided to stop selling it.

Maybe you can commission some monks to update the games in your 20 year old library.

Seriously most of the games written 20 years ago have been rewritten in Flash by 13 year olds.  Why would any company try and sell a game that people can play for free?

[AtomSmasher]

Maybe you can commission some monks to update the games in your 20 year old library.

Heh true.  My uncle loves playing old computer games and recently picked up the game Civil War Generals, unfortunately he wasn't able to get it installed because of some error.  I happened to have a copy of Civil War Generals 2 that I played 9-10 years ago (I never throw anything out, I even have the instruction manual for it), but unfortunately he had the same problem.  I probably could of gotten it running with DosBox or something similar, but I was never nearby to help with his computer and he's not good enough on the computer to figure out how to do it himself.

[shmokes]

I'm talking about more than just availability, though.  I'm talking about consumer behavior.  With few exceptions, when games go on sale, they sell 99% of what they will ever sell, almost immediately.  Sales then drop to something hardly above zero.

[JimmyU]

Fun Fact: 43% of Gamestop's profits come from used game sales.  Source:
http://kotaku.com/375440/majority-of-gamestop-sales-from-just-four-companies

[DaveMMR]

There's a lot of comparing of video games to books and movies.   Video Games are NOT books and movies.  Even if "John Q. Metal Gear Solid" fan wants to argue that his favorite game is like a movie, it isn't.  It's a game you watch for long periods of time.

Movies - Books - Video Games.  Different products, different mindsets.  Books and movies don't age like games do.  Gamers are constantly concerned with trivial advancements in presentation and technology instead of the core play mechanics.  Yes I'm generalizing here and the above does not pertain to many people who frequent these forums, but for the average, younger gamer who cut his teeth on the 3-D consoles, it's all about useless window dressings.  That's why old games are generally marked down significantly (even as new) while new titles are sold at the $60 price point.  Meanwhile, you'll still pay full price for a copy of Casablanca on DVD while you may be able to find Adam Sandler's Click bundled with two other random movies for $20. 

Hate to say it (and I'm about to sound old here), but a lot of the younger generation takes the classics for granted.  They'll scoff at the graphics and unforgiving difficulty of Mega Man II but spend hours talking about how great the graphics look in the new GTA.  And those who do appreciate the oldies but goodies?  Well, they're a minority in the grand scheme of things and stores aren't going to turn a profit catering to them by paying someone the actual value of Ikaruga (or even accepting anything older than a PS2 game).

[shmokes]

As someone who owns both Ikaruga and GTA: Vice City and GTA: San Andreas (though I actually paid money for Ikaruga, and pirated the other two), I will say that both GTA games were among the best games I've ever played in my life.  Between the two, as much as I absolutely love Ikaruga, I'd take GTA.  Seriously, nobody is making better games than Grand Theft Auto.  That includes Nintendo (or Treasure, for that matter).

[DaveMMR]

As someone who owns both Ikaruga and GTA: Vice City and GTA: San Andreas (though I actually paid money for Ikaruga, and pirated the other two), I will say that both GTA games were among the best games I've ever played in my life.  Between the two, as much as I absolutely love Ikaruga, I'd take GTA.  Seriously, nobody is making better games than Grand Theft Auto.  That includes Nintendo (or Treasure, for that matter).

I'll actually admit that using GTA in "how great the graphics look in the latest GTA" was a poor example since I happen to believe GTA (GFT III to be exact) was one of the last truly great (read: original) games to have come out and is, thus, more than just eye candy.   But I also needed something current and recognizable as an example.  Feel free to change it to [generic next-gen title].

[RayB]

Those games you're selling are OOOLD. What did you expect? I see used games on store shelves as low as $5.99. How much do you think they paid to be able to waste shelf space and still make a profit? There are too many PS2 games.

I was offered $0.75 for Stretch Panic !! At that price I figured I might as well let it collect dust. Post your less common games on Ebay. You'll have a better chance. Or try to negotiate a trade.

[rhoelsch]

Yeah, but you look at Gamestop's markups for used games... someone's trading them in for next to nothing, granted, but someone's buying them as well. It's not like I'm expecting $18 for San Andreas. My pricing for private sale is derived from eBay pricing, minus the shipping charge. Devaluation, sure, but the retail resale value means they're still being purchased for MUCH higher than trade value. There's suckers on both ends, and value, ultimately, is in the eye of the buyer/seller. It saddens me that people will buy a $12 game from Gamestop that they know that someone sold it yesterday for $1.20. They support these retail locations raping gamers. The gamers lose, and they just don't care.

[RayB]

IT'S A TRAVESTY!!! Call the mayor! Rally the troops! We're going on a good old boycott-strike-demonstration-protest! It's time for us to gather and fight for the extra $2 we all deserve, dammit!! 

Seriously. Buying or selling anything is an agreement between the two parties. If you don't like the terms, then don't accept them. End of story. We buy things every day for $12 that some man, woman or child in China was only paid 0.05c an hour to make for us. Why not raise a stink over that inequity?

[rhoelsch]

The travesty is that we're fostering a throwaway society. Make a sub-par piece of crap under the guise of new technology, who cares? The kids'll buy it anyway. Big business makes their bucks and we have a flood of high-priced crap in the market. I like my crap to be reasonably-priced. My conclusion being that the majority of consumers are fools, and the only way to get ahead is to have the capitol to be able to sell things to these fools. More power to those individuals. I don't count myself amongst those fools, but I am forced to live in a market that caters to them. I wouldn't have an issue with it if I had money coming out of ---my bottom---, but unfortunately, that's not the case.    What's the failure rate on 360s, by the way? They're kewl, I'll buy 5...

[shardian]

If you are desperate for a small amount of cash, then they are the hookup. A pawn shop wouldn't give you any better than them.

If you aren't in a hurry and want better prices, use the local trading journal, craigslist, or ebay. Even the workers at Gamestop will tell you that.

[RayB]

But you are one of those fools. We all are. By purchasing NEW goods (such as PSP games instead of old used GameBoy games) we're inextricably part of the "throw-away" equation. To get out, you'd have to give up most non-essential consumption altogether.

[shardian]

The travesty is that we're fostering a throwaway society. Make a sub-par piece of crap under the guise of new technology, who cares? The kids'll buy it anyway. Big business makes their bucks and we have a flood of high-priced crap in the market. I like my crap to be reasonably-priced. My conclusion being that the majority of consumers are fools, and the only way to get ahead is to have the capitol to be able to sell things to these fools. More power to those individuals. I don't count myself amongst those fools, but I am forced to live in a market that caters to them. I wouldn't have an issue with it if I had money coming out of ---my bottom---, but unfortunately, that's not the case.    What's the failure rate on 360s, by the way? They're kewl, I'll buy 5...

Those fools are the people who drive our economy. Let the masses be fools - they just make life easier for the 'enlightened' crowd.

[rhoelsch]

Yeah, tell that to the people at my office here (400+, most under 30) that haven't bit on buying my posted games for sale yet.

pricing's not unreasonable...?:

Grand Theft Auto III   $5
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City   $6
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas   $9
(original “hot coffee” version)
Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance   $7
Mortal Kombat: Deception   $6
Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks   $9
Tekken Tag   $6
Tekken 5   $10
NFL 2k5   $3
NCAA Football 2004   $3
SSX 3   $5
Twisted Metal: Black   $6
Virtual Fighter 4   $4
Gran Turismo A-Spec   $4
Intellivision Lives!   $7
Medal of Honor: Frontline   $7
Soul Calibur II   $7
MLB ‘03   $3
NBA Live ‘03   $3
Metal Gear Solid 2   $6

Final Fantasy VII (PSX black label version)   $50

Zelda: Oracle of Ages (both GBC)
Zelda: Oracle of Seasons   both for $20

[shardian]

Odds are your buddies also have these games already. looking thru your list though, it appears alot of your games are withing a $1 or $2 of Gamestop's prices. Most of the games on your list just aren't desirable and/or are oversaturated on the used market.

If you listed a bulk deal for $50, your games would be gone, and you would have gotten nearly $20 more than the in-store trade in.

[knave]

Sad as it may be, I happen to like getting used games at Gamestop.  My target price is $9.99 Some games are less that that even, and if the game is one of those "Must haves" I might even pay up to $19.99. 

This is a great thing for me.  I wouldn't have any games at all if it weren't for gamestop.

If someone is done with a title then then I see nothing wrong with them trading it in for a few $$ even if GS sells it for much more.  They are trading market price for the convenience of having a central location to go and sell games at will. No ebay, no Craiglisters showing up at your house, just a couple of bucks or some store credit. It's really convenient.

[delta88]

pfft, the night the PSP launched I traded 30 games in at Blockbuster. I got the trade in value of each game (ie: ninja gaiden brought 20) Then every 3 games got an extra 5 per game. I ended up with near 300 in store credit. score!! got that psp

[shardian]

pfft, the night the PSP launched I traded 30 games in at Blockbuster. I got the trade in value of each game (ie: ninja gaiden brought 20) Then every 3 games got an extra 5 per game. I ended up with near 300 in store credit. score!! got that psp

I remember the slickdeals thread on the Blockbuster trade in fiasco. I think at one point, people were buying $20 games from Walmart, ripping off the plastic, and trading them in at BB and ending up profiting like $20-$30 for 3 games.