I like a good hockey fight, but this is ridiculous!

[shardian]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=3316645&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1

I found this incident to be sickening. There is no place for that in skill sports. Now to be honest, I always got a kick out of the fights when there was a local hockey team. That doesn't mean it is okay, and a semi-pro team is not exactly nationally televised NHL. I think allowing fighting is wrong in professional sports, but it brings the fans in. What happened in this video though, combined with the fact that it was Junior national level - which should have some form of class and focus on skill - I really think the Roy kid should be kicked out, and his father should be banned from the league permanently.

Why is it that fights never break out on a football field? There is just as much reasoning for it out there with all the hitting going on. The game is still entertaining without it. The same in baseball. Fights happen when called for, and the punishments are severe - so they only happen when something really, really calls for it.
I think maybe it is time to remove fighting from professional hockey. It sets a HORRIBLE example for kids who watch and idolize those guys. After all, I enjoy a brutal check just as much as a crappy fight.

[ChadTower]

That's not a hockey fight.  That's just a beating that happened on an ice rink.  Hockey fights break out during play, they are two sided, it's nothing like that.  Dude skated calmly all the way across the rink and attacked someone who was standing around.  Banning hockey fights will do nothing to incidents like that.

Why did no one mention that one of the blue team members hit a ref?  The ref comes over to try and intervene and a player knocks him totally out of the picture rather than defend his own goalie who's taking an ass beating.  That makes no sense to me.  Why doesn't the blue bench completely clear while this guy is down and not defending himself?  Something is completely wrong in this clip.  I played a lot of hockey and saw a lot of fights - I have never seen a player get beat like that on the ice without someone helping him.

[danny_galaga]

i went to the fight the other day and a game of ice hockey broke out!

[ChadTower]

I forgot to comment on shardian's question.  Football fights don't happen because guys have far less equipment on.  You really can't hurt a hockey player with a punch unless you get his helmet off and punch his head.  Everything else is covered, either by pads or by thick clothes between pads.  A football player is heavily armored around the head and shoulders but everything else is pretty much exposed.  Football players are also bigger, stronger, and more violent.  They can injure each other fast.  Frankly, there's also more respect in football than there is in hockey, because everyone on the field understands that your career can end instantly at any moment.  There is also that nine times out of ten the guy you want a piece of is lined up across from you - you have a lot of time to retaliate later in a pile or with a legal cheap shot.  Hockey players don't go straight 1 on 1 like that with the same guy 8 times in a row.

Plus in hockey you can't punch a dude in the junk under a pile where no one can see it.

[ahofle]

Fights don't happen in football because it's not part of the game.  I would argue it has nothing to do with the amount of equipment or having to line up in front of someone 8 times.  Same reason fights don't happen often in basketball or baseball where there is even less equipment to get in the way.  Hell, hockey teams have a player on the roster (enforcer) who can barely skate and who's sole purpose is to hand out beatings. 

I agree that banning fighting is not the answer to stopping cheap stuff like in that video. 

[ChadTower]

Same reason fights don't happen often in basketball or baseball where there is even less equipment to get in the way. 

Fights do happen in baseball and basketball - a lot more often than in football.  Basketball fights are the worst because those guys have no protection and they're giants.  One well landed punch in the NBA can cave in a guy's face - ask Rudy Tomjanovich about that.

In football the aggression is out in the open - there is nothing to hide at all - so the guys just accept quite an amount of stuff other athletes won't.  They accept it because they know the opportunity will be there within the next couple of minutes to reciprocate.

[shardian]

Fighting is encouraged in hockey by the fact that you only get a 5 minute penalty - one that doesn't even put your team down a man. You fight in any other sport, and you are gone for 1/4 of the season, lose that pay, AND get fined. Imagine how many fights there would be if fighting in football only got you a 1 quarter suspension. Just like hockey, teams would bring on a guy just to beat the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of a key player on the other team.

Look at even Soccer in the rest of the world. One dirty hit, and you are gone for the game AND the next one. In hockey, you get 2 minutes for possibly ending someone's career.

[CCM]

Why did no one mention that one of the blue team members hit a ref?  The ref comes over to try and intervene and a player knocks him totally out of the picture rather than defend his own goalie who's taking an ass beating.  That makes no sense to me.  Why doesn't the blue bench completely clear while this guy is down and not defending himself?  Something is completely wrong in this clip.  I played a lot of hockey and saw a lot of fights - I have never seen a player get beat like that on the ice without someone helping him.

In the clip I watched it looked to me that the blue player was trying to get to the goalie, but the ref had a hold of the front of his jersey and pulled him down on top of him.

It didn't look to me at all that the blue player was intentionally going after the ref and ignoring the beating his goalie was taking.

[CCM]

Just like hockey, teams would bring on a guy just to beat the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of a key player on the other team.

Rarely (if ever) do the true fighters in hockey go after the other teams key players.  You're not gonna see Georges Laraque just start pummeling Jason Spezza, your gonna see him square off against Chris Neil. 

That's pretty much the reason that teams have fighters, to keep the skilled players safe.  If you take a cheap shot at Crosby or Hossa, you know you're gonna have to deal with Laraque later in the game.

On the other hand there are plenty of dirty players in the league (Chris Simon) who will intentionally try to hurt someone.

There is a huge difference between the fighters that will fight the other teams goons and flat out dirty players that try to injure.

Now, all that being said, the content of that video is disgusting.  Patrick Roy should be banned for life for encouraging his son (or any player) to act that way.

[ChadTower]

Rarely (if ever) do the true fighters in hockey go after the other teams key players. 

Not as much in modern hockey, but anyone who grew up watching Bobby Orr will tell you, his knees may as well have had actual crosshairs on them.  Cam Neely, who was both a top sniper and the best fighter in the NHL at the time, used to take cheapshot after cheapshot and it definitely shortened his career.  Eric Lindros' career died a prolonged death after guys kept going after his head.  The list goes on and on - many key stars do end up injured as the result of cheapshots to take them out.

And of course there is the time after scoring a key goal in the playoffs, injuring him badly and basically ending the Islanders' season.

[chopps]

 Cam Neely, who was both a top sniper and the best fighter in the NHL at the time, used to take cheapshot after cheapshot and it definitely shortened his career. 

Ulf Samuelson... go to hell! 

[CCM]

Not as much in modern hockey, but anyone who grew up watching Bobby Orr will tell you, his knees may as well have had actual crosshairs on them.  Cam Neely, who was both a top sniper and the best fighter in the NHL at the time, used to take cheapshot after cheapshot and it definitely shortened his career.  Eric Lindros' career died a prolonged death after guys kept going after his head.  The list goes on and on - many key stars do end up injured as the result of cheapshots to take them out.

Cheapshot vs. Fight, two completely different things...

[CCM]

Eric Lindros' career died because he skated with his head down.


Head down - clean hit - concussion:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W61W4NZiRf4[/youtube]


Head down - questionable hit - concussion

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16Z7-XRPcrw[/youtube]

[CCM]

Not as much in modern hockey, but anyone who grew up watching Bobby Orr will tell you, his knees may as well have had actual crosshairs on them.  Cam Neely, who was both a top sniper and the best fighter in the NHL at the time, used to take cheapshot after cheapshot and it definitely shortened his career.  Eric Lindros' career died a prolonged death after guys kept going after his head.  The list goes on and on - many key stars do end up injured as the result of cheapshots to take them out.

Hockey is a completely different game now than it was back in Bobby Orr's day.  Hell, it's even a completely different game than it was when Neely was playing.  You said it yourself, not as much in modern hockey....

To me there is a HUGE difference between a fighter in hockey and a dirty player who takes cheapshots. 

[vorghagen]

Fights don't happen in football because it's not part of the game.

But it is a part of the game in hockey? THAT is wrong.
Why does a sport have to have fights in it just to be entertaining? A player whose sole purpose is to check other players in a solid solid way DURING PLAY, that I can understand. But for play to stop while two players trade blows should not be a part of ANY sport.

[ChadTower]

But it is a part of the game in hockey? THAT is wrong.

It is a part of Canadian hockey.  Always was.  It wasn't until the Russians started coming to the NHL that that started to change.  When the Swedes and Finns came, it got even lighter.  Some people blame Gretzky's arrival since he was the first MAJOR star that would never fight - but that's wrong.  Gretzky didn't fight because Marty McSorely skated behind him going Tito Ortiz on anyone that breathed on Gretzky.

The cheapshot and the fight are different but entirely intertwined.  The fight happens to either punish or discourage the cheapshot - establish after the first cheapshot that the result will be a bad beating and there won't be a second.  Of course, there really isn't any fighting at all until you get to the pros, hasn't been for quite some time.  The penalty in youth/high school hockey is pretty severe, much more in line with other sports.

[chopps]

the instigator rule was the death of hockey. 

  Gretzky didn't fight because Marty McSorely skated behind him going Tito Ortiz on anyone that breathed on Gretzky.

The cheapshot and the fight are different but entirely intertwined.  The fight happens to either punish or discourage the cheapshot - establish after the first cheapshot that the result will be a bad beating and there won't be a second. 

And of course because of the stupid instigator rule, this doesnt happen anymore.  Instead of a team being able to have a guy to protect the stars and stop cheapshots, you get idiots like Jordan Tootoo running around the ice, hitting everything in site, never touching the puck.   He knows that nobody is going to making him pay the because THEY will get an extra 2 mins for starting the fight.

Of course, there really isn't any fighting at all until you get to the pros, hasn't been for quite some time.  The penalty in youth/high school hockey is pretty severe, much more in line with other sports.

Not so much in the youth/high school or even the college level from what ive seen.  But alot of fighting in junior hockey, maybe more than in the NHL.                                   

[Ginsu Victim]

I just wish that article wouldn't have kept comparing it to Ultimate Fighting. UFC is nothing like that. There are strict rules and regulations, and they have to answer to the athletic commission of the state their event is in.  It's less dangerous than boxing.
Hockey is just ridiculous these days.

[FrizzleFried]

I think maybe it is time to remove fighting from professional hockey. It sets a HORRIBLE example for kids who watch and idolize those guys. After all, I enjoy a brutal check just as much as a crappy fight.

They took fighting out for a season or two...and it bombed.  Fighting IS part of Hockey...it's actually part of the strategy of the sport,  though there has been many rules put in to place over the years to put less of an emphasis on fighting.