Calling all Dragon's Lair/Space Ace Fans

[Steve]

Hi all,

With the release of both Dragon's Lair and Space Ace on Blue-ray/HD-DVD it got me thinking of a dedicated cabinet for them (Space Ace HD sounds good to me)

Thing is I need ideas for a cabinet, I know there are some 'bright' people here that might be able to help out 

I'm thinking of a 24" LCD screen (as I am about to upgrade my 24" Dell to the 30") I'd like a really kick --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- design too. I'd also like help with some artwork (post that is the right section) but I just want to get a design first.

I'm going to have a go and I'll post up some designs soon, but if anyone has some ideas would be great.

At the end I'll be happy to provide all plans, templates and artwork for free for anyone wanting to make one the same.

Thanks

Steve

[danny_galaga]

how about this one?



i think it might fit the theme 

[Daniel B.]

I was thinking, take the existing dragons lair cab design, and make it look a little more "high tech" and "current". This IS the HD version right? This thing should look like the marvel of technology it is!

[WCBoudreaux]

Me personally, I think the original cabinet is a work of art in itself... The 3 sided marquee is DEFINATELY a key point...

Why not do like they did with the Ms Pac-man/Galaga reunion cabinet, and use the same design, just make it a bit wider to house the bigger monitor? Just a thought, and I could give ya any measurements you may need as far as the original design concept...

Just my $0.02 on the matter...

I was actually thinking, of building some 25th anniversary cabinets... That would play Dragon's Lair, and Space Ace, but I'm sure I'd have to have some sort of license to do so... My goal was to build it in the original cab, but wider to accommodate a 25" or 27" monitor... With all new artwork, and a 3 sided marquee, but representing the 25th anniversary... And showing both games...

Probably just one of those things that will never get off the ground... hehe But you have to admit, it's a good idea...

Anyway, why not something like that?

[Steve]

Thanks for the input guys.

While I also love the original design, I have them and I think a update would be nice.

I like the idea of the 25th anniversary cabinet, while I'm not into 'multi-games' I'd like dedicated Space Ace and Dragon's Lair (and DLII)

I have some great quality clips from the Blu-Ray version of Dragon's Lair and waiting for Space Ace (my favorite)

I'm guessing the design I am thinking of would be based on the original design. I also like the Leland cabinets (my first thought was to base them on that design)

Anyway I'll try and get something together and post it up

[ark_ader]

You want to play DL or SA on Blueray in a dedicated cabinet?

Are you wanting to watch movies on it too?

This reminds me of a previous thread where one guy wanted to do the same thing.   

Well if you have money to burn and waste a perfectly good Blueray player - go for it!

[Steve]

You want to play DL or SA on Blueray in a dedicated cabinet?

Are you wanting to watch movies on it too?

This reminds me of a previous thread where one guy wanted to do the same thing.   

Well if you have money to burn and waste a perfectly good Blueray player - go for it!

Nope, not going to watch movies and I am ripping the video off the discs

[SithMaster]

You want to play DL or SA on Blueray in a dedicated cabinet?

Are you wanting to watch movies on it too?

This reminds me of a previous thread where one guy wanted to do the same thing.   

Well if you have money to burn and waste a perfectly good Blueray player - go for it!

Not really a waste since he will be able to remove the player from the cab.

[ChadTower]

What are you using as the player?  The originals were hardwired - no latency between joystick and player.  If you try to play any of the home releases they are pretty much unplayable on a DVD player.  The latency introduced by the remote control, the IR controller, and the speed of the firmware is just too much for a touchy timing based game like Dragon's Lair. 

I'll definitely be watching this thread to see what you use as a player.  I bet it can be done - I just haven't seen it done well yet.

[massive88]

If hes ripping the dvds and using a software dvd player, he should be able to eliminate most  if not all of the latency, right?

[ChadTower]

I'm not sure.  He would reduce load times for the next scene but not necessarily joystick latency.  Probably on using a software dvd player vs using Daphne too.  IIRC there are versions supported by Digital Leisure that work well with Daphne but I'm not sure that includes the new HD releases.

[hillbilly]

If latency is a concern you could always use a PS3 and hack a controller to interface to the arcade controls i would image.

you would have to like DL and SA alot i guess to drop $400 bucks on a PS3 to play them in cabinet form though.

so like
400 bucks for a PS3
400 bucks for a 26" lcd
50  bucks for the game
plus what ever the cabinet would cost to build which would be a good chunk of change i bet because why bother if you dont intend to cover it in nice DL/SA side art, marquee and CPO

if you use a 26" lcd the cabinet would have to be like 30-32 wide to accomodate it and the screen would only be slightly taller then using a 19" cga monitor. Larger would be nice but smaller is not really worth it.

this could look really nice though hopefully someone with more time and money then me will build it so i can admire it.

[ChadTower]

I guess we need to know how he intends to rip the originals onto a hard drive.  What format?  That will dictate what players are available.

I agree that the PS3 route is too costly... but then again, what does HD buy you on a 26" monitor that the regular DVD doesn't?

[hillbilly]

I think standing 2 feet from an HD picture would be noticable improvement compared to a DVD picture. It would still cost too much for the effect, unless you are hardcore about HD and DL/SA

To be fair going the PS3 route would also allow you to play other games with the wireless controllers. But then a couch is more comfortable then a barstool or standing when it comes to modern games IMO.

[ChadTower]

I think standing 2 feet from an HD picture would be noticable improvement compared to a DVD picture.

Standing 2' from a 26" LCD could easily negate all of that.

[massive88]

I guess we need to know how he intends to rip the originals onto a hard drive.  What format?  That will dictate what players are available.

I agree that the PS3 route is too costly... but then again, what does HD buy you on a 26" monitor that the regular DVD doesn't?

Id assume the plan would be to rip the disc and mount as a virtual drive.  Then find a software player that provides adequate response times from the CP.

[Steve]

Hey guys,

I am a die hard DL/SA fan 

The HD version will be ripped to a hard drive and software like Daphne will be used (still in testing) I am going to put it in a dedicated cabinet and cover it with artwork

At this stage, even converting the HD to m2v and ogg files (that Daphne requires) it looks 100% better, you do need a beefy machine to run the 1080p version.

Even my dedicated Space Ace runs via Daphne and it 100% too, scoreboard works and the skill level buttons work.

I'm just needing ideas on cabinet design 

[waveryder]

Perhaps im missing something here....but M2V and OGG HD? Surely this is not possible as Mpegs2 is restricted to 480/576 progressive output only. If your simply upscaling an mpeg2 rip to 1080p, even from a bluray disc, then surely your not getting anything better than DVD quality anyway. Wouldnt it be simpler to use a progressive dvd player with a built in upscaler. As far as I am aware Blueray rips are only usuable as H2684 files

[Steve]

Perhaps im missing something here....but M2V and OGG HD? Surely this is not possible as Mpegs2 is restricted to 480/576 progressive output only. If your simply upscaling an mpeg2 rip to 1080p, even from a bluray disc, then surely your not getting anything better than DVD quality anyway. Wouldnt it be simpler to use a progressive dvd player with a built in upscaler. As far as I am aware Blueray rips are only usuable as H2684 files

I've only captured the Blu-Ray version and converted it to m2v files for testing, I am going to see what's the best file type to use for this project.

The Blu-Ray capture has better quality than the DVD versions

[waveryder]

A

The Blu-Ray capture has better quality than the DVD versions

As Blue ray video yes but not when its compressed to M2V for daphne. What software exactly will you be using to run this?

[Steve]

A

The Blu-Ray capture has better quality than the DVD versions

As Blue ray video yes but not when its compressed to M2V for daphne. What software exactly will you be using to run this?

The converted Blu-Ray video compressed DOES look better than the DVD (if you had both m2v files playing) But I want to run it 1080p on a widescreen 24" monitor.

I'm going to talk to the Daphne guys and see what can be done.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I'm pretty sure that Daphne does not support any HD versions... at all.

Here is a quote from their website:
https://www.daphne-emu.com/mediawiki/index.php/DigitalLeisureDVD

"About Dragon's Lair HD (High Definition):
Digital Leisure also sells a High Definition version of Dragon's Lair called Dragon's Lair HD on PC DVD-Rom.
Daphne does not work with this version and we have no plans to make it work at this time."

~ DeLuSioNaL

[Steve]

I'm pretty sure that Daphne does not support any HD versions... at all.

Here is a quote from their website:
https://www.daphne-emu.com/mediawiki/index.php/DigitalLeisureDVD

"About Dragon's Lair HD (High Definition):
Digital Leisure also sells a High Definition version of Dragon's Lair called Dragon's Lair HD on PC DVD-Rom.
Daphne does not work with this version and we have no plans to make it work at this time."

~ DeLuSioNaL

That's correct for the Windows version (they are .wmv files on that disc) the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD's are different.

Anyway, this thread is about cabinet plans, once I have them sorted out I'll post up how I am going to be using the media and so on.

[ark_ader]

You want to play DL or SA on Blueray in a dedicated cabinet?

Are you wanting to watch movies on it too?

This reminds me of a previous thread where one guy wanted to do the same thing.   

Well if you have money to burn and waste a perfectly good Blueray player - go for it!

Nope, not going to watch movies and I am ripping the video off the discs

Ok so you are going to install linux on a PS3 and suck the data of the BRD.  What are you going to do with it then when the DVD version is just as good?

I think its all pie in the sky.  When you come down to earth, let us know. 

25th Anniversary cabinets are a cool idea. 

Give Bluth a shout.  He will email back saying he will ask Mr Dyer as he is the big wig at DLLC..... 

Just like I did when I asked to reproduce some artwork some 8 months ago. 

Well Rick, have you got to my email yet? 

[Steve]

Ok so you are going to install linux on a PS3 and suck the data of the BRD.  What are you going to do with it then when the DVD version is just as good?

I think its all pie in the sky.  When you come down to earth, let us know. 

25th Anniversary cabinets are a cool idea. 

Give Bluth a shout.  He will email back saying he will ask Mr Dyer as he is the big wig at DLLC..... 

Just like I did when I asked to reproduce some artwork some 8 months ago. 

Well Rick, have you got to my email yet? 

No I am NOT going to put Linux on my PS3, I am going to use my PC to do it (Blu-Ray burner to rip and software) Well after I come back down to earth   
Oh, and have you even SEEN the Blu-Ray version ? if you think it's as good as the DVD you need to take another look or check your setup 

Why should I give Bluth a shout ? I asked here for ideas on cabinet plans 

I'd be keen on seeing (or just hearing) about your artwork 

Anyway, back to the topic, here are my preferences so far:

1) Design based on the original DL
2) Design based on the Leland cabs
3) Complete new design (a bit from both?)
4) Something like 'The Act' game (see below)



Space Ace, Dragon's Lair and Dragon's Lair II (for those that don't know them)

[ChadTower]

ark_ader being a dillhole aside...

...from an engineering perspective, you're far better suited working out the technical requirements and getting them tested/running before jumping into cabinet building.  That's a mistake we see around here all the time.  Guys will be so anxious to get their hands dirty they don't bother to do proper requirements gathering or prove their concept out.  Inevitably they end up paying for it later on in one manner or another.

[Steve]

ark_ader being a dillhole aside...

...from an engineering perspective, you're far better suited working out the technical requirements and getting them tested/running before jumping into cabinet building.  That's a mistake we see around here all the time.  Guys will be so anxious to get their hands dirty they don't bother to do proper requirements gathering or prove their concept out.  Inevitably they end up paying for it later on in one manner or another.

True, but a worse case scenario is that I can 'capture' the widescreen version of DL/SA (as I have tested this) and sure it's not 1080p but it does look better than the DVD (on a Dell 24" monitor)

[Fozzy The Bear]

True, but a worse case scenario is that I can 'capture' the widescreen version of DL/SA (as I have tested this) and sure it's not 1080p but it does look better than the DVD (on a Dell 24" monitor)

Personally, mine were ripped from the DVD versions, and then cleaned up using some cartoon filter software that I have, that takes 90% of the gunky old image noise out and makes it look pretty damned good.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[ark_ader]

ark_ader being a dillhole aside...

...from an engineering perspective, you're far better suited working out the technical requirements and getting them tested/running before jumping into cabinet building.  That's a mistake we see around here all the time.  Guys will be so anxious to get their hands dirty they don't bother to do proper requirements gathering or prove their concept out.  Inevitably they end up paying for it later on in one manner or another.

That is the nice fuzzy and warm way to put it.

I'll be a "dillhole" some more and say why reinvent the wheel?

Why change something so perfect like a DL cab and turn it into something totally diferent?

Whats wrong with these DL plans?

http://www.jakobud.com/cabinetPlans.php

It baffles me when someone asks a question, which they already know the answer for and goes on a tangent for effect.  Works hard for a 20 minute game which looks great on DVD yet looks the same in Hi-Def.  Yes I have seen the difference and it looks like a cleaner version.

I also know how hard it is to clean up video and enhance it, and this Hi-Def is definately quicker alternative but to what end?

Call Digital Leisure and email the Daphne team to see if they can accomodate the new source material, or wait until MAME has a solution.  Either way its going to be time consuming and costly.  You cab idea is great for you but I would advise not going that route as it looks odd.  Great for Crazy Taxi maybe.

If you want some advice, create a DL2 cab with the same plans on that link and incorporate SA and DL and DL2 inside it.  Photoshop some artwork and get it professionally printed.  That way if you have to make some spare cash you can sell it and get a return. 

Darth Nuno has some great ideas on his site.

dillhole signing out....   

[ChadTower]

Oh, man, I missed the pic of The Act.  I was this close to buying one of their prototypes recently... but they stopped responding, must have sold it elsewhere.  The company is only like a half hour from me.

[ark_ader]

Oh, man, I missed the pic of The Act.  I was this close to buying one of their prototypes recently... but they stopped responding, must have sold it elsewhere.  The company is only like a half hour from me.

It does look nice and simple. 

I wonder how expensive it would be to have the stand made?

Add a retainer bracket for your back.......

[Steve]

Works hard for a 20 minute game which looks great on DVD yet looks the same in Hi-Def.  Yes I have seen the difference and it looks like a cleaner version.

You sure it looks the same in HD ?

[ark_ader]

Works hard for a 20 minute game which looks great on DVD yet looks the same in Hi-Def.  Yes I have seen the difference and it looks like a cleaner version.

You sure it looks the same in HD ?

Well let me be a dillhole like Chad likes to call me and say yes.

Yes it looks the same in the context that it doesn't move me to rip and play about with it for hours on end in order to make something I will play once in a blue moon.  Give me the means to tinker to play Cube Quest or Freedom Fighter and I will have nothing but praise and to offer my gratitude.

So it looks like you are going to put a PS3 inside a cabinet of your choosing with some controller hack or X Arcade dongle in order to make this a reality.  I remember a thread like this a few months back....

Coming back to my dillhole comment of you floating back down to earth and creating a cabinet that will make us drool and want to make one..... I would make it with ventilation in mind as PS3s get very warm in enclosures.

Sorry for my lack of brainpower earlier to link up your idea and that Act cabinet.  I would want something like that too to watch movies on and play Motor Storm.  With a cardboard bezel and surround I'm sure you can give that Act cabinet the Dragon's Lair look in minutes.

At least that Act cabinet looks wife friendly even with a 50" LCD 

Please let us here know how you get on with your project.  I know that many have had the same thoughts as you especially with the 25th Anniversary of DL2 coming and talk of a possible motion picture of Dragon's Lair.  News like that makes custom projects more appealing.

Good luck!   

[Steve]

Yes it looks the same in the context that it doesn't move me to rip and play about with it for hours on end in order to make something I will play once in a blue moon.  Give me the means to tinker to play Cube Quest or Freedom Fighter and I will have nothing but praise and to offer my gratitude.

So it looks like you are going to put a PS3 inside a cabinet of your choosing with some controller hack or X Arcade dongle in order to make this a reality.  I remember a thread like this a few months back....

Coming back to my dillhole comment of you floating back down to earth and creating a cabinet that will make us drool and want to make one..... I would make it with ventilation in mind as PS3s get very warm in enclosures.

Sorry for my lack of brainpower earlier to link up your idea and that Act cabinet.  I would want something like that too to watch movies on and play Motor Storm.  With a cardboard bezel and surround I'm sure you can give that Act cabinet the Dragon's Lair look in minutes.

At least that Act cabinet looks wife friendly even with a 50" LCD 

Please let us here know how you get on with your project.  I know that many have had the same thoughts as you especially with the 25th Anniversary of DL2 coming and talk of a possible motion picture of Dragon's Lair.  News like that makes custom projects more appealing.

Good luck!   

Man I'd love to get hold of Cube Quest or Freedom Fighter 

At this stage, I'm not going to use a PS3, it will be a PC and I'm going to encode the Blu-Ray footage to M2V (so I can use it with Daphne for now) and see what I can do later.
I've been a HUGE Dragon's Lair (well Space Ace is my favorite) since 1983 I have both of them in my games room (and Badlands and Cobra Command and a few others)

I know that a certain someone in the UK is going to do the 25th DLII (yes we all know who he is) and I wanted to do the same for the HD release. I must play Space Ace at least once a day (games room clears the head after a bad day at work)

I'll post up more details as they happen.

Thanks for the comments.

[Steve]

Well I've been playing around with some encoders, below are 2 shots from Space Ace. One the DVD version (cleaned up) and the other the .wmv file from the Digital Leisure website.

I now have the HD intro playing on my machine and converted to .m2v and the quality is stunning (even at lower resolution) compared to the DVD version I've been using (and the DVD version is better than the LD rip I have)

I'll do some other grabs later.

[ChadTower]

 
Nice! 

[metaHipster]

Perhaps im missing something here....but M2V and OGG HD? Surely this is not possible as Mpegs2 is restricted to 480/576 progressive output only. If your simply upscaling an mpeg2 rip to 1080p, even from a bluray disc, then surely your not getting anything better than DVD quality anyway. Wouldnt it be simpler to use a progressive dvd player with a built in upscaler. As far as I am aware Blueray rips are only usuable as H2684 files

Wrong.  He's not upscaling.  While MPG-2 for DVD-Video is limited in resolution, that's not an aspect of the compression format but more of a standard which DVD-encoders use.  If he's going to run on the desktop via Daphne or something, should be limited only by the speed of the computer he's playing it on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2

Also, it's H264 (MPG-4 or AVI wrapper), not H2684.  Like I mention below, these will give you a WAY smaller filesize but require faster processor/more ram.

(You may have been thinking of MPG-1 which I believe did have some resolution limitations that would prevent HD-res).

Steve: You may want to verify how long the biggest clip you'll have to rip is as there may be some filesize limitations you'll run into that could be avoided by using MPG-4 (if Daphne allows that).  That said, MPG-2 is less system-intensive I think.  Also I think FAT32 filesystem limits you to 2GB files so be sure your hard drive is formatted NTFS/HFS+/something else that allows big files (if it's even an issue...)

While I didn't want to get into the whole "dillhole name-calling / debate" but there's no question to me that 1080p looks better than 480i.  Anyone who disagrees needs to pull their head away from their old CRT and see what HDTV's are capable of when given something other than upsampled DVDs to play.  Those screenshots clinch it for me.  As someone who's dabbled with daphne briefly using only old VCD rips, i can't even believe the difference compared to the glory of the new release.  But if you really don't care much about Dragon's Lair, I can see where it's nothing to get all that excited about.

That said, I don't think I'd ever find myself building a dedicated cabinet for a single game (mostly becasue my wife would kill me if I had one such cab for every game I love as much as it's clear Steve loves the Bluth-animated games).


And yet as Steve points out, he's only here to get some cab suggestions not to hear everyone question his sanity   (God forbid the rest of us get our sanity questioned as I'm guessing most are dubious )

I'd say go with the original design, possibly upscaled to fit a larger monitor.  And don't discount the option to play other HD movies on it -- while you want it solely for Dragon's Lair, it would be Sooo easy to make it work for something beyond that if you want.  Though that would require leaving a BluRay or HD-DVD player in it I guess

[ark_ader]

Well I've been playing around with some encoders, below are 2 shots from Space Ace. One the DVD version (cleaned up) and the other the .wmv file from the Digital Leisure website.

I now have the HD intro playing on my machine and converted to .m2v and the quality is stunning (even at lower resolution) compared to the DVD version I've been using (and the DVD version is better than the LD rip I have)

I'll do some other grabs later.

Very Well Done! 

[Steve]

Oh I forgot to add that both the Space Ace screen shots are taken while running in Daphne and BOTH are m2v files (the HD-wmv file was converted to m2v)

This and Dragon's Lair look superb converted to plan old m2v 

metaHipster, yes I do love the Bluth games (mainly Space Ace) seeing this as a kid in the arcades was awesome 

As for a 'dedicated' machine, I have Space Ace and Dragon's Lair (and a few other non lasers) I want to put a barn style shed out back and have a dedicated games room  sure that will cost a bit but if I do it over time should be ok. I don't smoke or drink (much, but will have a fridge full of Corona's when complete) 

I work hard and this is something I really want to do, a total of about 25 games (2 pinballs) should do it and I 'might' have a Mame cab there too. But some of the games I have run Mame in dedicated machines anyway.

[metaHipster]

As for a 'dedicated' machine, I have Space Ace and Dragon's Lair (and a few other non lasers) I want to put a barn style shed out back and have a dedicated games room  sure that will cost a bit but if I do it over time should be ok. I don't smoke or drink (much, but will have a fridge full of Corona's when complete) 

Cool!  Good luck with that!  I've got the money but not the space.  When you're taking that tack it totally makes sense to get some authentic dedicated cabs of your favorites.  Far better than having to get the unauthentic "swiss army CP" most of us mame-only types have to settle for in most cases.

Keep us posted what you decide for cabinet design etc.