Monitor connection VGA to D9 display settings question

[gatordad]

I was rushed for my new years eve deadline and just used the s-video, to get it working.

Now I want to get better picture quality than s-video.

My monitor supports rgb analog and TTL ( I don't know what TTL is) and scart, I'm in the US.

I purchased the necessary cable connection converters to go from 15 pin to a d9. (VGA to RGB)
I quickly tried to hook it up but the screen just flickered with no distinguishable picture, but like I said I was in a rush for my new years eve party. so I went with s-video because it worked first.

Now I am ready to spend some time to figure this out.

It should be set to analog right?

What should I have the sync set to? + or -

What display settings in windows should I use for the D9 to work?
I think it's 480 X 600 32bit 60 or should I use something different?

Will I still be able to play PC games through this connection? (it works now w/ s-video)
This monitor supports resolutions above 480 X 600 I remember seeing 800 X 600 and 1024 X 768.

I also want to try soft 15 after I get it working. any advice on that.........

Thanks
GD

[ahofle]

You may have to hack your own cable.  I had a presentation monitor which had a DB9 RGB input similar to that one, but a DB15 to DB9 cable I bought did not work (when I cut it open, most of the pins were dead ends!).  Do you have any specs on that monitor or at least a pinout of that port?

As far as what resolutions it supports, you really need to post the specs of the monitor for us to answer. 

[gatordad]

Thanks for Taking a look, here is what I have for spec's, I have a Hantarex 28 in monitor that was used in video walls, I'm not sure if the spec's are similar to the presentation monitors. 

I Never hacked a cable before.

[northerngames]

should be - sync

640X480 32bit-color 60-HERTZ

on a arcade monitor anyhow.

[ahofle]

Well that's good for the pinouts of the DB9, but I am not seeing anywhere listing horizontal scan rate(s) (ie CGA, VGA, EGA).  Is there another page to that?  Are you sure it's VGA?  If it's not, you should probably be careful booting into windows at a high resolution.

[Silver]

TTL is 'Transistor-Transistor Logic'. This is an old digital signal, which you definitely don't want - you want RGB analogue.


The specs (assuming you have the right monitor) gives you the pinout of the 9-pin RGB d-type. "hacking your own cable" means creating your own VGA->9pin cable, either by opening up the cable at one end and moving the wires around and soldering (less common these days as more and more cables are moulding plastic and impossible to open without lots of damage) or getting one made up for based on the pinout you have. (More expensive).


The specs also say that the video bandwidth is '8MHz'. This is not enough for VGA. As far as I can see, this monitor will only support 15Khz which means it can be used as an arcade monitor but its not going to work in windows/games without either an arcadeVGA card, or a utility to drop the resolutions (powerstrip/soft-15Khz).

[gatordad]

TTL is 'Transistor-Transistor Logic'. This is an old digital signal, which you definitely don't want - you want RGB analogue.

Got it thanks

The specs (assuming you have the right monitor) gives you the pinout of the 9-pin RGB d-type. "hacking your own cable" means creating your own VGA->9pin cable, either by opening up the cable at one end and moving the wires around and soldering (less common these days as more and more cables are moulding plastic and impossible to open without lots of damage) or getting one made up for based on the pinout you have. (More expensive).

Instead of hacking a cable to route wires to thier appropriate place would a solution like this work
link
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5fid=3403&sku=02458

The specs also say that the video bandwidth is '8MHz'. This is not enough for VGA. As far as I can see, this monitor will only support 15Khz which means it can be used as an arcade monitor but its not going to work in windows/games without either an arcadeVGA card, or a utility to drop the resolutions (powerstrip/soft-15Khz).

Will soft 15 be seemless after installed or does the user have to choose resolutions say for a pc game.
I read most of the info for soft 15 and it supports most of the resolutions my pc games run at?

Thanks for helping me with this
Regards
GD

[ahofle]

The specs (assuming you have the right monitor) gives you the pinout of the 9-pin RGB d-type. "hacking your own cable" means creating your own VGA->9pin cable, either by opening up the cable at one end and moving the wires around and soldering (less common these days as more and more cables are moulding plastic and impossible to open without lots of damage) or getting one made up for based on the pinout you have. (More expensive).

Instead of hacking a cable to route wires to thier appropriate place would a solution like this work
link
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5fid=3403&sku=02458

Almost certainly not.  Your best bet is to buy a straight-through DB9 cable and get a VGA breakout cable from ultimarc.com.  Cut the DB9 in the middle and use a multimeter to connect the VGA breakout cable wires to the appropriate wires on the DB9 cable using the pinout as a guide.

The specs also say that the video bandwidth is '8MHz'. This is not enough for VGA. As far as I can see, this monitor will only support 15Khz which means it can be used as an arcade monitor but its not going to work in windows/games without either an arcadeVGA card, or a utility to drop the resolutions (powerstrip/soft-15Khz).

Will soft 15 be seemless after installed or does the user have to choose resolutions say for a pc game.
I read most of the info for soft 15 and it supports most of the resolutions my pc games run at?

Thanks for helping me with this
Regards
GD

As long as your PC games don't go above 640x480 you should be fine.

[Silver]

Will soft 15 be seemless after installed or does the user have to choose resolutions say for a pc game.
I read most of the info for soft 15 and it supports most of the resolutions my pc games run at?

Note that the powerstrip/soft-15K route only starts working after windows has booted. This means you will get no video/nasty flickering during the time your PC posts/boots. This is probably not great for the monitor - most protect themselves from out-of-range signals, a few do not. ArcadeVGA gets around this completely, but then it costs $$$. Some people just live with this/ignore it, some turn on the monitor only after windows has booted.

[gatordad]

[/quote]

As long as your PC games don't go above 640x480 you should be fine.
[/quote]

Sorry if its a dumb question
Could you please explain why won't higher resolutions work?
I have used other resolutions above that already (on s-video), 800x 600 for windows navigation and 1024 x 768.

Thanks again
GD

[gatordad]

Will soft 15 be seemless after installed or does the user have to choose resolutions say for a pc game.
I read most of the info for soft 15 and it supports most of the resolutions my pc games run at?

Note that the powerstrip/soft-15K route only starts working after windows has booted. This means you will get no video/nasty flickering during the time your PC posts/boots. This is probably not great for the monitor - most protect themselves from out-of-range signals, a few do not. ArcadeVGA gets around this completely, but then it costs $$$. Some people just live with this/ignore it, some turn on the monitor only after windows has booted.

Looks like I'm luckier than I am smart
I have my cab wired so the pc is seperate from all the other power. (monitor lights and speakers on a switch) pc hot all the time.

[ahofle]

As long as your PC games don't go above 640x480 you should be fine.

Sorry if its a dumb question
Could you please explain why won't higher resolutions work?
I have used other resolutions above that already (on s-video), 800x 600 for windows navigation and 1024 x 768.

Thanks again
GD

When you use S-Video, your video card bastardizes the signal to an NTSC interlaced (480i) image, no matter what resolution you have selected in windows.  In other words, you aren't really running 800x600 or higher which is why it looks horribly fuzzy.  When you run an RGB signal, you are passing the actual signal straight to the monitor which cannot handle it.

I don't want to confuse you even more, but I should add that you can actually run an 800x600 interlaced image to a CGA monitor, but it will most likely be cut off severely on the top and bottom.  My personal opinion is that you should just get an ArcadeVGA card which will handle everything for you, including the boot screens as Silver mentioned.

[gatordad]

As long as your PC games don't go above 640x480 you should be fine.

Sorry if its a dumb question
Could you please explain why won't higher resolutions work?
I have used other resolutions above that already (on s-video), 800x 600 for windows navigation and 1024 x 768.

Thanks again
GD

I don't want to confuse you even more, but I should add that you can actually run an 800x600 interlaced image to a CGA monitor, but it will most likely be cut off severely on the top and bottom.  My personal opinion is that you should just get an ArcadeVGA card which will handle everything for you, including the boot screens as Silver mentioned.

Too late, I am confused.......... but.... I am persistent, and I am willing to learn things outside of my comfort zone.
If I were to use the soft 15 solution at 15mhz it has many low res options available as well as 800x600 and 1024x768

From soft 15 website

# Resolutions in Detail
Here is a list of resolutions currently used.

    * 15KHz
          o 240 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 256 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 256 x 256 @ 60Hz
          o 256 x 264 @ 60Hz
          o 304 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 321 x 240 @ 60Hz *
          o 321 x 256 @ 60Hz *
          o 336 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 352 x 256 @ 60Hz
          o 352 x 264 @ 60Hz
          o 352 x 288 @ 50Hz **
          o 368 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 384 x 288 @ 50Hz **
          o 392 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 401 x 256 @ 53Hz * **
          o 448 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 512 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 512 x 288 @ 50Hz **
          o 632 x 264 @ 56Hz **
          o 640 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 640 x 288 @ 50Hz **
          o 640 x 240 @ 60Hz
          o 512 x 448 @ 60Hz Interlace
          o 512 x 512 @ 60Hz Interlace
          o 640 x 480 @ 60Hz Interlace
          o 720 x 480 @ 60Hz Interlace
          o 800 x 600 @ 50Hz Interlace **
          o 1024 x 768 @ 50Hz Interlace **

      * "Fake"-Resolution to avoid DirectX-Problems.
      ** Says 60Hz in Windows.

Do you mean only some of those be available to me with RGB?
I am under the impression that they all should be available, and would be available to a pc game as well as mame.
 or am I way off the mark on this?

Please advise
Regards
GD

[ahofle]

In a nutshell, a CGA monitor only has around 300 horizontal lines max.  If you'll notice on that list, every resolution with more than 300 lines is listed as 'interlaced'.  This means that odd and even lines are drawn separately (so as to remain within the 15khz limitation of the monitor).  So yes, they should be available to you in Windows and any application/game you run (although the higher resolutions will be interlaced).  The one possible exception is the 1024x768 mode.  I have no idea how that one is possible, even interlaced, on a CGA monitor.  Also, as I mentioned you will have to adjust the monitor for 800x600 because it will usually overscan quite a bit.  I never bothered with anything over 640x480 for that reason.

[Silver]

It's worth pointing out that there is not much (IMHO) to be gained at seeking to be able to run 800x600 or 1024x768 (interlaced or not) on your monitor - it's not like a PC monitor where increasing the resolution will show you more of the game screen or more detail - in your case you are limited by the monitor itself.

If I had you monitor, and was looking at using soft-15Khz, I'd not use anything above either 640x480i or 800x600i depending on how they looked.

Also note that your windows desktop will look a lot uglier than the games themselves when in interlaced mode. (Personally, I'd not run windows interlaced at all if I could help it).

[gatordad]

Thanks guys, I will make a custom cable soon. I have plenty of extra VGA cables. I have to pick up a d9 cable.

So after the cable is made I should

1. Install soft 15 (just the 15 khz mode correct)
2. change resolution to 640x480 32 @ 60
3. Shut down


4. What changes do I make to my mame ini ? (I want mame to swich res automatically)
any other changes to the ini. using rgb over other video connections?



5. Connect new hacked cable.
6. Reboot
7. Enjoy arcade low res glory

Did I miss anything?
Thanks again
GD

[gatordad]

Ok So I started to hack my cable but I have 2questions.

On the DB9 pinout from above pin 1 says common.....but my d9 cable pin 1's wire is not grounded
what should I connect to pin 1 on the D9 from the vga cable?

a vga pinout has pin 5,6,7,8,10 as ground, Do I need to ground these to the shield on the D9 cable or where?

I'm slightly confused
any help is apprieciated
Thanks
GD

[ahofle]

I believe you connect all 5 VGA grounds together and then connect them to the ground 1 pin on the DB9.

[gatordad]

Can anyone confirm this? Is pin 1 common where I should connect all the grounds, even though pin 1's wire is not grounded within the D9 cable.
Thanks Much
GD

[northerngames]

all the output grounds go to your monitor input ground.

[gatordad]

I thought that my monitor had died but a new slow blow fuse got me back up and running.

I finished my cable hack, installed soft 15, set my desktop res to 640 x 480 (did this in ATI settings not windows), shutdown,  hooked everything up, switch my input selection on the back of monitor, rebooted but all I got was a loud buzz out of the speakers when the video cable was plugged in, no distinguishable picture it just rolled very fast.

Questions

What would cause the audio buzz when the video vable gets connected?

I know I'm really close but What else do I need to do to get the RBG thing working?

[northerngames]

check this pinout and see if you have them set right.



http://www.ultimarc.com/monfaq.html#monitorcable

[ahofle]

I set my desktop res to 640 x 480 (did this in ATI settings not windows), shutdown, 

Are you sure you are using 640x480 interlaced?  I'm not familiar with Soft15khz, but hopefully it replaces the true 640x480 windows resolution with an interlaced one like the ArcadeVGA.

[gatordad]

I set my desktop res to 640 x 480 (did this in ATI settings not windows), shutdown, 

Are you sure you are using 640x480 interlaced?  I'm not familiar with Soft15khz, but hopefully it replaces the true 640x480 windows resolution with an interlaced one like the ArcadeVGA.

My RGB through the D9 connection is still not working yet and I am going to give it another go, so I wanted to follow up on a few things,

A couple of  questions

When I tried this last (few weeks ago) I recieved a very loud humming noise from my cab's speakers when I plugged the hacked breakout cable into the monitor. (I will take it apart and double check the pinouts accordingly)
Whats up with the loud buzzing is it a ground issue?


As with any task on a computer there is like 3 different ways to do something, so my question is.

Where exactly should I change the resolution from, or does it not make a difference? I have quick res  loaded on my box.

How do I tell if I am choosing interlaced?

Regards
GD

[northerngames]

use the quik res tool and it will set the ati and windows to the same setting.

as for the buzzing I have no clue why your monitor would make any sounds through your sound unless you have a speaker wire hooked to the monitor chassis