Truck won't start

[paigeoliver]

Is this most likely the ignition switch?

1989 Chevy Suburban, 5.7 liter V8.

Battery has a charge, alternator and starter are both recent. The headlights will turn on, as will everything else that is wire to always function regardless of ignition position.

Putting the key in the ignition and turning it does NOTHING, it doesn't try to start at all, nor does any power go to the radio or accessories. However it will still make the warning buzz noise that it makes if you have the key in the ignition and open the door (however that function isn't related to the actual ignition switch).

Once before the truck displayed the same symptoms, but then it simply started working again the next day, the weather conditions were exactly the same this time as it was the previous time (overnight frost that had melted).

Finally, assuming it IS the ignition switch, how do you actually remove the thing? I have the chilton's manual, I did everything it said (pull the plastic dash stuff around the steering column, drop the column, etc). I can trace the activation rod to what must be the ignition switch, but I don't see the two screws that the manual mentions, nor do I see any easy way to even get in there to properly get at the thing.

Also, last minor note, car experts, remember that the 1989 Suburban is a member of the PREVIOUS generation of Chevy trucks, that they didn't change the Suburban over to the newer platform until a few years later (it seems that not even all parts manufacturers can remember that).

[AtomSmasher]

I had a similar problem with my truck ('74 Ford) a few years back (except I didn't have a buzzing noise) and the problem turned out to be a bad solenoid .

I currently have another problem with my truck which isn't letting it start, its turning and trying to start, but won't.  I've replaced most of the ignition system over the years, but the wiring is a real mess (stored it at my parents house for a while and mice got to it), so I think I'm going to rip it all out and replace it.  Of course I'm going to wait until it gets a little warmer outside before I do 

[MaximRecoil]

Have you tried jumping the solenoid? That can help narrow down the problem.

[paigeoliver]

No I haven't tried that. It was sort of raining out when I was messing with it, and I didn't want to ruin any clothes crawling underneath the thing or wherever the solenoid is.

Have you tried jumping the solenoid? That can help narrow down the problem.

[danny_galaga]

its always possible to have several problems at once. ALWAYS check the fuses first, even when you think that couldnt possibly have anything to do with it. then go from there. the starter solenoid itself wont have a fuse, but it could be the case that the starter is playing up AND you have some blown fuses for the other things not working. also, cold weather tends to bring out the worst in electrical faults. when you get a chance, try and get a jump start to help narrow it down. maybe itll start but all the other problems remain. but you wont have gotten all grubby finding that out! maybe, as you say, the ignition switch is dicky.

in short, do the easiest tests first 

[missioncontrol]

turn the key like you were starting it and short the solenoid....

[ChadTower]

Welcome back, Paige!

[NIVO]

pull the battery posts off and inspect them if you havent done so. I had the problem with the truck. You couldnt see the buildup from just lokking at it, but once pulled all the caking was everywhere. Once replaced($7) it was perfect again. YMMV.

[MaximRecoil]

No I haven't tried that. It was sort of raining out when I was messing with it, and I didn't want to ruin any clothes crawling underneath the thing or wherever the solenoid is.

Have you tried jumping the solenoid? That can help narrow down the problem.

I don't know how it is on your vehicle, but on many vehicles the solenoid is mounted right on the inside of the fender, easily accessible from under the hood. And like Missioncontrol mentioned, make sure the ignition switch is on before jumping/shorting the solenoid.

[ChadTower]

Is this the same truck you bought from Drew?   

[Ed_McCarron]

Is this the same truck you bought from Drew?   

Man, I'd be afraid that every time I sat down I was squeezing Drew farts out of the seat.

I'd never be able to buy a car from someone I knew.

[hypernova]

The truck's fine.

The real reason is he doesn't want to see Frank Grimes at work.

That's right!  We're onto ya!

[draginit]

first thing that came to my mind after reading your post is the ground. i would check the ground from the battery to the frame. and then check/clean any corrosion from the batt posts

-also, i had something similar where my solenoid was perfectly fine but the two wire connections would keep vibrating loose over a few miles. and on an 89' s-10 access to the solenoid was not easy. so i kept a braker bar extension to tap the solenoid wire thru the fender wall...pain in the ass. but easier than replacing it. haha

-anyway back on track here. im doubting its your ignition and think its just simply a loose connection or bad ground. thru my experiences. good luck

[danny_galaga]

pull the battery posts off and inspect them if you havent done so. I had the problem with the truck. You couldnt see the buildup from just lokking at it, but once pulled all the caking was everywhere. Once replaced($7) it was perfect again. YMMV.

doh! you would think being an auto electrician i would have thought of that! yeah, what nivo said (but still check fuses first etc, can still be multi probs). when you pull off terminals from the battery, get some boiling hot water and pour it over all the yucky corrosion. with a round file, clean out the insides of the terminals (if they are lead go easy) and a flat file or coarse sandpaper clean the battery posts (again go easy on the lead, you only need to see the metal shine again).

edit: also if you find the terminals have all that crud growing on it, once youve cleaned them up put a layer of grease underneath as in pic and on top once the terminal is back on. there used to be this sort of spray on wax stuff that was brilliant for corroding terminals. you just cleaned everything up and when it was back together just give it a liberal blast with this gear. it would come out something like chain lube but then harden to a wax-like state. if you can find that stuff, use it.

[DrewKaree]

Paige, does it make a little noise when you turn the key?  Not the regular click-click-click-click-click-click that is the COMMON problem when something goes wrong with the starting system, but a SINGLE click, and VERY VERY QUIET, almost miss-able if you're inside the truck?  Have someone else turn the key while you've got your head under the hood to check it out.

If you hear that almost-inaudible click, there's an ignition/starter relay that's going/gone bad.  Have another person keep turning the key until you find the "box" that's clicking.  Unbolt it, replace it.

One other possibility (in addition to the many that others have given) is to run the gearshift through and back into Park to make sure it's definitely in Park.


Worst case scenario, you'll have to replace the muffler bearings and top off the headlight fluid 

[DaOld Man]

I dont know Drew, you may be right, but I would suspect sparkplugs need rotating (85 bucks per plug) and maybe bad air in the tires. Might need a complete air change (400 bucks). Might want to rotate the seat cushions, since I heard they may be contaminated. (25 dollar special + 125 dollar federal rotate fee).

[Bones]

Put it in H!

[danny_galaga]

oh, and ignore bones and drew. they are trying to confuse you. if doing the checks ive described dont fix it, all you need to do is check the overhead underhang and maybe lubricate the fu-fu valves...

oh, and yeah. welcome back 

[paigeoliver]

Well, it magically started working again without me doing anything. Well, I did lots of stuff, but none of them did anything. About 7 hours after my final search for the ignition relay (which I could not find, where is the part, the Chilton manual doesn't even tell me) it just magically decided to start again.

The speedometer/odometer has stopped functioning now, otherwise everything is working right again.

[TOK]

Well, it magically started working again without me doing anything. Well, I did lots of stuff, but none of them did anything. About 7 hours after my final search for the ignition relay (which I could not find, where is the part, the Chilton manual doesn't even tell me) it just magically decided to start again.

The speedometer/odometer has stopped functioning now, otherwise everything is working right again.

Problems that go away are the worst, because you never know when they're coming back. Sounds like you have a ground issue based on the gauges (unless you did something to them looking for other problem). S-10's of the same year as your truck had issues with a ground under the dash. Caused gauge and light issues.

[paigeoliver]

I was all sorts of underneath the dash, so I could have killed the odometer myself. Also, I got the "Service engine soon" light on the way to work, which I have never seen before. Of course that might have very well come on because the odometer isn't working.

[danny_galaga]

I was all sorts of underneath the dash, so I could have killed the odometer myself. Also, I got the "Service engine soon" light on the way to work, which I have never seen before. Of course that might have very well come on because the odometer isn't working.

and of course you have now checked all the fuses and the battery terminal condition, right? right?

[paigeoliver]

All the fuses were fine, I can't locate the ignition relay, and I had already cleaned/sanded the battery terminals in my earliest troubleshooting. The positive terminal does build up some crud, it is completely clean now though. I may want to replace the battery cables though, as they might very well be 19 years old.

[DaOld Man]

I had a similar problem with my 94 Dodge dakota.
Except my problem was that the radio, headlights and a few more things would not come on. Motor started and ran fine.
Checked fuses and anything else I could.
I finally took it into my mechanic. He had it fixed the next day. He said he found a short behind the fuse block. (He called it a short, but I figured it was really a loose connection, because a short would have created smoke.)

[danny_galaga]

All the fuses were fine, I can't locate the ignition relay, and I had already cleaned/sanded the battery terminals in my earliest troubleshooting. The positive terminal does build up some crud, it is completely clean now though. I may want to replace the battery cables though, as they might very well be 19 years old.

dont worry about the cables, theyll be fine. just so long as the lugs/terminals on the ends of them are good...

[markrvp]

I was all sorts of underneath the dash, so I could have killed the odometer myself. Also, I got the "Service engine soon" light on the way to work, which I have never seen before. Of course that might have very well come on because the odometer isn't working.

Yeah, best to ignore the "Service engine soon" light... those always come on in error. 

[FrizzleFried]

Uh...some vehicles (not sure about 1989) require you to hold down the BRAKE to start it?

[DrewKaree]

Well, it magically started working again without me doing anything. Well, I did lots of stuff, but none of them did anything. About 7 hours after my final search for the ignition relay (which I could not find, where is the part, the Chilton manual doesn't even tell me) it just magically decided to start again.

The speedometer/odometer has stopped functioning now, otherwise everything is working right again.

IIRC, check the passenger side near the firewall.  There's a few relays there (little plastic square boxes, or perhaps the big metal kind too ).  Since the truck is old (and common), they might not show it in the ideal area in the Chilton manual.  I've had far better luck with Haynes manuals, whereas Chilton's often have stuff spread throughout the book.  Chilton's are great for tons of info that you might never need, while the Haynes is kinda the "Cliff Notes" version when you just want to wrench on your car.

[Kevin Mullins]

The best manual to locate "relays" on a particular vehicle is the owners manual.
Chilton and Haynes both suck these days. (used to be good)
The starter solenoid is mounted directly to the starter itself.
But I highly doubt either of those are the problem.

One thing that seems be getting overlooked a bit from the original post is

Putting the key in the ignition and turning it does NOTHING, it doesn't try to start at all, nor does any power go to the radio or accessories.

Also weather seems to play a factor in this as well. The cold (overnight frost) may be shrinking a connection just enough to loose it's connection.
(hence why later on it was all fine again....warmed up)
The fact that the headlights and all other non-ignition switched stuff still seems to work properly tells me the main battery cables should be fine.

Which leads me to think it's main power lead/connection somewhere in either the fuse box, ignition switch, ground, etc. Some vehicles have multiple grounds, so check anything going to and from the engine block to the chassis/body closely. Still could be a number of other things....... intermittent problems are the worst to troubleshoot.
In this case, it'll be something minor that causes such a big headache. 

[lanman31337]

If it's an auto, try wiggling the shifter.  Sometimes the lockout switch gets tired after the years.

[shardian]

It could still be the ignition switch. They are notoriously bad in my Volvo 850. Get your car started, then start wiggling around the key in the ignition in every way. If you can get the car to die without actually turning the key off, then it is most likely your ignition switch.

I also had a Corolla once that had a stuck starter solenoid. I am confused by the folks saying the solenoid is mounted in all these strange places. Is this REALLY true in your cars. I've always known the start solenoid to be physically mounted to the starter. Its purpose is to engage/disengage the starter from the flywheel. What purpose would it serve mounted elsewhere??

Anyways, I had a Corolla in which the solenoid could get stuck. When it was stuck, when I hit the ignition the whole electrical system would bog down, thus simulating a dead battery. The problem was fixed by putting the car in gear and rocking it a bit.

[lanman31337]

Ford (and AMC) had the solenoid mounted on a separate place.  For my CJ5's and CJ7 it was on the fender.  GM has it mounted on the starter, and most 350's it's going to be underneath, driver's side.  2 bolts up in and maybe a bolt to hold the rear of it and the starter drops.  GM trucks had a problem with the soleniods getting stupid when the vehicle was warm.

[Kevin Mullins]

Just to clarify....

The fender mounted style units on Fords and such are actually relays.
A relay just connects or dis-connects main battery power from the starter motor.

There is still a solenoid mounted on the starter to engage the bendix drive and pinion gear to the flywheel in order to turn the motor. (mounted to the starter itself)
A solenoid is simply an electromagnetic plunger to push or pull a mechanical device.

Other vehicles incorporate both the relay and the solenoid into the same unit. Those will always be mounted directly to the starter. When the solenoid is engaged, contacts on the rear of the solenoid make contact and act as the relay portion all at the same time.

And then there's the more complicated relay to activate a solenoid which activates a relay type cars. But lets not go there........

Besides all that, I still don't think any of this has anything to do with the problem in question for the simple fact that nothing that would normally come on with the ignition switch worked. (i.e radio, instruments, turn signals, blower motors, etc, etc)

[DrewKaree]

You're leaning towards bad muffler bearings too, aren't you?

[danny_galaga]

Just to clarify....

The fender mounted style units on Fords and such are actually relays.
A relay just connects or dis-connects main battery power from the starter motor.

There is still a solenoid mounted on the starter to engage the bendix drive and pinion gear to the flywheel in order to turn the motor. (mounted to the starter itself)
A solenoid is simply an electromagnetic plunger to push or pull a mechanical device.

Other vehicles incorporate both the relay and the solenoid into the same unit. Those will always be mounted directly to the starter. When the solenoid is engaged, contacts on the rear of the solenoid make contact and act as the relay portion all at the same time.

you are correct, but the ford style are often referred to as 'solenoids' simply because they are nearly as big as one, and it helps differentiate them from 'normal' relays. this has no bearing on paiges car, but the fords with the seperate relay/solenoid use a 'clapper' starter, which doesnt have a solenoid as such. it cleverly uses one of the pole shoes of the starter to engage the pinion. basically part of the starter is also the solenoid! its all very clever but the drawback is that if the battery isnt well charged, there isnt enough energy to engage the pinion...

[ChadTower]

One other possibility (in addition to the many that others have given) is to run the gearshift through and back into Park to make sure it's definitely in Park.

Oh man, that one got me once.  Very embarrassing!

I called AAA a couple of years ago because of a transmission problem... the guy shows up, twists the shifter button about 30 degrees clockwise, and the problem goes away.  The stupid twenty five cent plastic button broke off a little piece and wasn't pressing the safety on the shifter rod anymore but you couldn't see it.  The button was still moving normally.

 

[lanman31337]

Just to clarify....

The fender mounted style units on Fords and such are actually relays.
A relay just connects or dis-connects main battery power from the starter motor.

There is still a solenoid mounted on the starter to engage the bendix drive and pinion gear to the flywheel in order to turn the motor. (mounted to the starter itself)
A solenoid is simply an electromagnetic plunger to push or pull a mechanical device.

Other vehicles incorporate both the relay and the solenoid into the same unit. Those will always be mounted directly to the starter. When the solenoid is engaged, contacts on the rear of the solenoid make contact and act as the relay portion all at the same time.

you are correct, but the ford style are often referred to as 'solenoids' simply because they are nearly as big as one, and it helps differentiate them from 'normal' relays. this has no bearing on paiges car, but the fords with the seperate relay/solenoid use a 'clapper' starter, which doesnt have a solenoid as such. it cleverly uses one of the pole shoes of the starter to engage the pinion. basically part of the starter is also the solenoid! its all very clever but the drawback is that if the battery isnt well charged, there isnt enough energy to engage the pinion...

Exactly.  My Jeeps never had a separate solenoid on the starter itself, just the main power lug that went to the solenoid.

[paigeoliver]

Just to update. I ended up having a mechanic track it down after getting stranded again, apparently the connection at the starter itself was doing something strange under certain weather conditions and was causing all the problems. The mechanic (real old guy who has owned the shop in my neighborhood since before I was born) said it was really weird and he almost never sees anything like that.

I would have never found it on my own.