Big win for Sony...

[shmokes]

I can buy multiple brands of underpants in several styles and shapes. 

Those things are different.  They don't create market confusion and uncertainty (which lowers overall sales -- just look at all the people waiting on the sidelines for the war to end).  You're not going to buy Fruit of the Loom and get it home only to realize that your package is only compatible with Hanes.  Also, you have to remember that it's not just the consumer that is influencing these decisions.  Two formats means much higher costs for studios in terms of manufacturing (two different production facilities) and retail shelf-space (gotta buy shelf-space twice, but you don't double your sales). 

[shardian]

If M$ would have integrated the HD-DVD player with the 360, I think this would have actually been a war instead of a skirmish.

[Daniel B.]

Most bluray players will downscale (sometimes...to 480p!) if you aren't using a hdcp token compliant hdmi cable.

So does that mean they have component outputs?  I haven't seen many SD TVs with HDMI inputs.

Chad, I have yet to try a blu-ray on my ps3, and I haven't taken a look at the specs on other standalone players. Hopefully someone else can chime in on this.

[ChadTower]

You're not going to buy Fruit of the Loom and get it home only to realize that your package is only compatible with Hanes.

You are overestimating the consumer.  We're talking Walmart shoppers.  Why do you think Fruit of the Loom sells more than Hanes?  These people shop underpants by flavor.

[DaveMMR]

Retailers don't want to purchase and stock two different formats of the same product.

I can buy multiple brands of underpants in several styles and shapes.  I have both Hot Wheels and Matchboxes.  My wife has 658 different brand bottles of shampoo.  Go to Walmart and there are 25 TVs of nearly identical function from 15 different brand names in every size.

Two formats of DVD are supposed to be any different?

Yes, very different.  When you're buying Shampoo, Underwear, etc. you can theoretically stick to one brand or, on a whim, try a different brand (for example, if on sale).   You don't need "special hardware" to buy everyday products from a different manufacturer than you are used to.   On the other hand, do Blu-Ray player owners walk into a store and buy a movie on HD because the HD version's on sale?  No, of course not.  That would be silly.  Why would a store carry something if they can't sell it, no matter what? 

[ChadTower]

On the other hand, do Blu-Ray player owners walk into a store and buy a movie on HD because the HD version's on sale?  No, of course not.  That would be silly.  Why would a store carry something if they can't sell it, no matter what? 

You'd better let cell phone companies know about that.  I had no idea PC software wasn't usable on the Mac!  Is this why my PS2 games don't fit in the Gamecube?  I never could figure that one out.  All of these compact flash cards won't fit in my Sony camera!  OMG!

There are plenty of electronics that come in multiple formats that are not compatible with each other.  DVD is not different in any way.

[shmokes]

Those are all good points, and I guess I'd say that a movie player falls somewhere in between your shampoo/underwear example, and the Mac/PC example.  A DVD is a much more mass-market device than a flash card, and even much more than a video-game in terms of the amount of time you'll use the game and how much you'll pay for it. 

Personally, I'm happy for there to be only one format.  It would be totally lame to need two players in order to watch every movie.  It would suck to say, "Man, I really want to see There Will be Blood, but I've got BluRay and it's only coming out on HD-DVD."  Maybe having only one format means that Sony will be able to charge higher royalties than they would with competition in the market, but that con, for me, is outweighed by the pros.

[DaveMMR]

On the other hand, do Blu-Ray player owners walk into a store and buy a movie on HD because the HD version's on sale?  No, of course not.  That would be silly.  Why would a store carry something if they can't sell it, no matter what? 

You'd better let cell phone companies know about that.  I had no idea PC software wasn't usable on the Mac!  Is this why my PS2 games don't fit in the Gamecube?  I never could figure that one out.  All of these compact flash cards won't fit in my Sony camera!  OMG!

There are plenty of electronics that come in multiple formats that are not compatible with each other.  DVD is not different in any way.

You're not understanding.  If a product is on a store shelf that can only be used on a proprietary piece of hardware and/or service, it's because their is sufficient demand for said item.  There's a reason I can't walk into a major chain store and buy albums on vinyl and cassette instead of only CD (actually I wish I could). 

Enough people own Macs that a store can stock their software (although it's much less space than PC software).  Same thing goes for Gamecube and PS2 games.  If the user-base for any piece of hardware (Gamecube, Blu-Ray, etc.) or service (Verizon Wireless, Sprint, etc.) is sufficient, you will be able to find their products.  The opposite is also true... which is why it makes no sense to put HD-DVDs on the shelf.

[ChadTower]

You're not understanding.

Do not mistake my disagreement with lack of comprehension.  That's just arrogant.

You're telling me that people wouldn't love to have only one format of media for digital cameras?  Are people really demanding proprietary memory cards?  Or are they buying them because they are the only ones that work with the camera they bought?

[AtomSmasher]

You're telling me that people wouldn't love to have only one format of media for digital cameras?

Hasn't the SD card become the standard format for digital cameras to use?     Every camera that I've own in the past 5 years and every camera that everyone I know owns uses SD memory.  I'm sure there are some that still use proprietary memory cards, but not very many anymore.

[Hurray Banana]

Looks like Toshiba have thrown the towel in.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSL1627196120080216

[shmokes]

Memory cards are different anyway.  99% of camera owners buy one memory card for their cameras at the time they purchase their cameras and they promptly forget about it.  The differing memory card formats cause hardly any inconvenience to the consumer at all.  In spite of that, of course, the market has chosen an unofficial standard with the SD card.  There are others out there, of course, but . . .

At any rate, like I say, it's totally different.  It would only be an apt comparison if you went to take a picture of your kid at his football game only to have your camera flash a message at you saying that only memory sticks are compatible with football games.  But then when you had a camera with a memory stick you were confronted with a message saying that memory sticks are incompatible with birthday parties.

I think there is merit to both sides of the argument.  On the one hand we get competition, theoretically bringing prices down, on the other hand we have convenience and simplicity.  In the case of a media format for watching movies, I'll take the convenience.  I don't think the competition brings much to the table in this market, but keeping track of which format each movie is released on is a pain in the ass, and having to miss a bunch of movies you really want to see (or own two different players) is an even bigger pain in the ass.

[DaveMMR]

You're not understanding.

Do not mistake my disagreement with lack of comprehension.  That's just arrogant.

You're telling me that people wouldn't love to have only one format of media for digital cameras?  Are people really demanding proprietary memory cards?  Or are they buying them because they are the only ones that work with the camera they bought?

I apologize if I came off arrogant.  Perhaps it was a poor choice of words.  But somehow my original point was lost somewhere in the shuffle of this discussion.  You were originally saying how we can have different brands of underwear, toothpaste, toy cars, etc. , so why not DVD formats. 

We all love having choices (well, in theory).  But it makes no sense for a big store to lose money stocking a proprietary format on the off chance the statistical minority will come in and buy it.   The studios aren't backing HD-DVD as much as Blu-Ray and they're going to stop selling players at major outlets, so it makes little financial sense to stock the discs.

I wasn't trying to turn this into "right, wrong, pro, con" discussion.  Just pointing out that it was an "apples/oranges" comparison.