Poll: Emergency power and heating

[shardian]

With the current situation in Oklahoma, and with several of our members involved I thought it might be appropriate to bring up the emergency power and heat topic.

I only remember one time that power was out for a considerable amount of time here, and that was during the blizzard of 1993. I had to go to a friends house who had a gas oven for heating.

We also had a kerosene heater in the kitchen when I was little. That is generally not safe though, and I think I'd only go that route in a real pinch.

In my current house, I have all electric heating and appliances. I don't have any source of backup heat or power and think it might be time to invest in an emergency source.

So, I'll start a poll about what you have in your house. Feel free to add suggestions for the poll.

[tommy]

Here in South Florida Hurricanes are a very real threat every year and not having a generator is just stupid.

[ChadTower]

There in south florida you will not freeze to death.  Ever.

I don't have a specific backup source.  We have oil heat, though, and I'd bet it could be rigged to run off a backup electrical source somehow.  There are small parts of the system that are electric but I'm not sure exactly which ones.  I need to have my furnace replaced in the next year or two (24 years old) so you just gave me something to toss into the requirements.  Maybe a switchover to backup battery for the ignition or something.  I wouldn't care about the rest of the house if we had backup for hot water (also oil) and heat.

How cold does it get in your state?  If you had electric heat up here you'd be looking at many hundreds per month all winter long.  Maybe a grand in some months.

[TOK]

Generator... I'm actually considering one for the first time, since I was without power for nearly 3 days this summer. That has never happened before, and would be an even bigger disaster in the winter.
Ideally, I'd love a whole house generator with a transfer switch but it's a lot of money. A gas generator with enough power to run the fridge, TV and a couple space heaters would probably be enough to get by for a few days.

[tommy]

No we have no chance of freezing to death, but having your house roof ripped off in the middle of the night is no picnic. That along with power outages for many weeks after a bad storm is not much better.

[ChadTower]

No we have no chance of freezing to death, but having your house roof ripped off in the middle of the night is no picnic. That along with power outages for many weeks after a bad storm is not much better.

Maybe not, but when that storm is gone, the danger is gone.  Up here the danger has just started when the storm is over - people can die from hypothermia.  When your house is gone you can pitch a tent in a clear spot in the yard and you're perfectly safe.

[tommy]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

You can always run to a house next to you for shelter but all the houses here would be a hazard and are in shambles.

[ChadTower]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

24 hours is not a week or more.  I'm not saying hurricanes are not dangerous - but they are not a long term danger like -15 degree temperatures with no power.

[TOK]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

[tommy]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

He got people talking about something, anyway. Isn't that what it's all about? 

[shardian]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

24 hours is not a week or more.  I'm not saying hurricanes are not dangerous - but they are not a long term danger like -15 degree temperatures with no power.

When the dust clears in Oklahoma, there will be more than a few dead people ranging from young Children, Senior Citizens and the homeless.

[shardian]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

Yeah, no problems here. Debate away.

[tommy]

You guys should have seen the last major hurricane to hit us here, all the gas stations were full of people waiting backed up in lines way out into the main roads waiting to fill up. It was almost like the world was ending and you had to grab what you could while you could, people were even running out of gas waiting to get gas a mile away from the gas station.

[shardian]

How cold does it get in your state?  If you had electric heat up here you'd be looking at many hundreds per month all winter long.  Maybe a grand in some months.

It can get pretty cold, but lately the winters have been fairly mild. Right now it is in the 60's. Two weeks ago I was waking up to 16 degrees though.
On average in the dead of winter it usually stays around 35-40 degrees, with weeks here and there below 30.

Our house came with a new furnace, and our bill in a cold month is usually right around $100.

[shardian]

I just got an electric corner fireplace and I may consider replacing the electric unit in the mantle with a propane unit. I have a friend that has the propane unit and it works well. The only problem is that the fireplace is not on an exterior wall and I don't want to route a gas line - if that is even allowed with propane.

I am leaning towards a small generator right now.

[ChadTower]

It can get pretty cold, but lately the winters have been fairly mild. Right now it is in the 60's. Two weeks ago I was waking up to 16 degrees though.
On average in the dead of winter it usually stays around 35-40 degrees, with weeks here and there below 30.

So it's not even really that much of an emergency there in terms of the cold.  When it is still 30 outside you can get by wearing your coats and with 3 blankets and such.  It's a pain in the ass and it is unpleasant but you'd be safe with reasonable care.  We lived in a 150 year old house in NS way out in the woods - when a storm knocked down some lines it sometimes took a while to get power back.  That was dangerous as it got cold there.  We had a fireplace, though, and could all sleep in that room when there was a problem.  Wood is definitely a great backup source.

Our house came with a new furnace, and our bill in a cold month is usually right around $100.

That's not bad.  1998-2001 we lived in a basement apartment with electric hot water and waterborne baseboard heat.  We had several months where the electric bill was $500 and that was with us keeping the thermostat at 65.  At today's energy prices that would easily be a grand.

[XyloSesame]

This poll needs to have a few more options...

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

Most of the folks I know are either at a relative's house (with heat), or the two options above...

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

[shardian]

So it's not even really that much of an emergency there in terms of the cold.  When it is still 30 outside you can get by wearing your coats and with 3 blankets and such.  It's a pain in the ass and it is unpleasant but you'd be safe with reasonable care.  We lived in a 150 year old house in NS way out in the woods - when a storm knocked down some lines it sometimes took a while to get power back.  That was dangerous as it got cold there.  We had a fireplace, though, and could all sleep in that room when there was a problem.  Wood is definitely a great backup source.

Well sure a normal winter is nothing serious, but if a storm that hit like out in Oklahoma hit here and was followed by a big cold front, there would be ALOT of people in this state would be in serious trouble.

Odds are I'd buy a generator and never use it. But if there ever came a need for it, which is possible, then I'd like to be prepared. Hence the term "emergency".

[ChadTower]

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

When the fireplace is your main backup source you have to pretty much block off that room.  We had doors on all room doorways for that reason.

For an emergency generator you have to have gas on site already or be able to get it before the emergency arrives.  Like tommy said - it gets real ugly at gas stations when people are dependent on gas in an emergency.  Keep that in mind.

[shardian]

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

That ain't gonna cut it with a baby in the house that HATES blankets. Hate simply isn't a strong enough word I think.

Back in college, I briefly lived in the Co-ed dorm. The majority of the rooms had a broken heater, and a big picture window right above it. We had an ice storm that semester and the temperature was in the teens with skin piercing humidity in the air and a windchill at around 0. I slept with a hoodie, two pairs of thermal socks, two pairs of sweats, four blankets and still froze ---my bottom--- off.

So no, piling on the blankets is not a viable long term emergency option. That's what you do when the power goes out for mere hours.

[tommy]

You wouldn't think being hot in an emergency is such a bad thing but with 90+ humidity and temp it can also get very uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous stuck inside or out with nowhere to go and nothing cold to drink.

[TOK]

This poll needs to have a few more options...

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

Most of the folks I know are either at a relative's house (with heat), or the two options above...

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

This was how I've always deal with stuff and it was no problem, but having a small kid really messes up the ability to rough it. I used to kind of like the big snows and thunderstorms, but having to deal with the mess or worrying about a freezing or heat-stroking kid has sapped my pioneer spirit. 

[JackTucky]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

Yeah, Chad lives in the most dangerous place.  Don't you understand?  jeesh.

=J

[shardian]

This was how I've always deal with stuff and it was no problem, but having a small kid really messes up the ability to rough it. I used to kind of like the big snows and thunderstorms, but having to deal with the mess or worrying about a freezing or heat-stroking kid has sapped my pioneer spirit. 

No doubt. I wished for blizzards when I was a youngster. Now, the first thing that pops in my mind is "what if Elizabeth gets sick? Will we be able to get her to a doctor?"

[XyloSesame]

When the fireplace is your main backup source you have to pretty much block off that room.  We had doors on all room doorways for that reason.

We've got blankets in our doorways to block the room. Trouble is most folks we know live in drafty old houses built in the 20's; we could feel the breeze coming in, even with the drapes drawn. S'ok, though, it was still warmer than outside...

... it gets real ugly at gas stations when people are dependent on gas in an emergency.  Keep that in mind.

And dependent on coffee. There were mobs looking for both at the few stations that had power.

That ain't gonna cut it with a baby in the house that HATES blankets. Hate simply isn't a strong enough word I think.

Our three year has been sleeping with my wife and I. He has a blanket-hate as well.

The biggest problem is that he's been kicking the blankets off of us these nights (when he hasn't been kicking my nards). I think when he starts playing with matches, our blankets will be the first thing to burn. He and his 4 year old cousin (also at our fireplace-house) have been doing great; it's like a party for them. We've been grilling on our front porch to eat and they think it's just like camping...

Edit: Spellin

[ChadTower]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO Someone will die. edit by saint from advice below regarding fumes

[XyloSesame]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

I'd say no to propane inside, but only from experience. The fumes make me loooopy

[tommy]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

[ChadTower]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

[nostrebor]

We spent 11 days without power last January during an ice storm that was much like the current one. Lows in the single digits followed the storms. It was lethal to those without heat, and folks did die. We only missed this stom by a few miles, and I am grateful to be sitting this one out.

My experience with the last storm taught me a few things about heat.

1. If you have all electric heat, your screwed unless you want to buy a very large (15-20kw minimum) generator.
2. A gas furnace and a fridge can be powered by a 3000 watt generator, but that's about it.
3. City supplied water is a wonderful thing if the power goes out.

We live on a well, have gas fired furnaces, and no non-electric sources of heat. We were forced out of our home for the first 3 days because I was not prepared to deal with no power. Luckily I have family that uses wood heat and gas stoves for cooking. Bunking with 11 family members and a 1 year old is not a good time though, so we found a way to get back in our home ASAP. I had to go to at least a 7000 watt generator to run a freezer, fridge, furnace, and well pump. It will also pull a light or two and the TV, which is a big plus if you have kids.

We now own an 8500 watt generator, and a transfer switch. If the power goes I can get us back up and running in about 10 minutes. We did buy a portable unit, so fuel is an issue, but you usually know when a hurricane or ice storm is coming. With that in mind, we own (4) 6 gallon gas cans. I go fill them before the potential event and thus have a 3 day supply of fuel for the gen if needed. If we don't need the fuel, I just fill up the cars with it, so it's no big deal.

Living in a rural area on a well and overhead lines and not owning a generator is just stupid. If there is any chance of a weather related event in your area, especially if you have children, you need to be prepared.

[tommy]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

You've obviously never cooked chicken or hamburger in a room with no air going through it, it gets filled up very quickly and is not something that should be done unless there is no other option. What the food is cooked on really does not matter, the meat alone burning is bad enough, and it lingers around well after.

[nostrebor]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

There were 2 deaths here last year from folks trying to have a BBQ in their house during the ice storm. Gas grills put of huge amounts of Carbon monoxide. It's the same reason you have to vent your furnaces out of the house, so the propane or natural gas combustion fumes won't kill you.


NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

[XyloSesame]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

Yes, I have three or four propane heaters at my theater. They stink. And give headaches. And are dizzy-fying. I'd be hesitant to take them to any enclosed spaces, and would recommend others do not...

[tommy]

If anyone is ever in an emergency with chad, keep him away from the grill. 

[ChadTower]

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

Cool.  Now we know.

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

[XyloSesame]

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

I know a few vegans that would disagree.

[tommy]

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

Not in an emergency when there is no air going around or you can't open a window. Under normal circumstances people DO cook meat in a house, yes.

People trapped or bundled into a house from bad weather should not be trapped in there with smoke if possible.

[ChadTower]

People trapped or bundled into a house from bad weather should not be trapped in there with smoke if possible.

That pretty much describes December to March here.  We cook meat all the time with no doors and windows open.  There have been zero meat vapor related incidents.  Maybe you shouldn't burn your meat.  Cooking meat doesn't give off smoke... burning it does.

Xylo, why would a vegan be cooking themselves meat to begin with?  It would be kind of funny to see what happens to a vegan when they run out of Tofu, though. 

When the power went out for us when I was a kid we used to put cold but not freezable stuff outside in a cooler with some hot water in a pan.  Coolers keep cold out nearly as well as they keep it in. 

[tommy]

 We cook meat all the time with no doors and windows open. 

Are you cooking in the house right now with no air going through the house?   

[ChadTower]

Yes, but it's your house.  Your dog just fell down.  I'm not sure why.