Poll: Emergency power and heating

[shardian]

With the current situation in Oklahoma, and with several of our members involved I thought it might be appropriate to bring up the emergency power and heat topic.

I only remember one time that power was out for a considerable amount of time here, and that was during the blizzard of 1993. I had to go to a friends house who had a gas oven for heating.

We also had a kerosene heater in the kitchen when I was little. That is generally not safe though, and I think I'd only go that route in a real pinch.

In my current house, I have all electric heating and appliances. I don't have any source of backup heat or power and think it might be time to invest in an emergency source.

So, I'll start a poll about what you have in your house. Feel free to add suggestions for the poll.

[tommy]

Here in South Florida Hurricanes are a very real threat every year and not having a generator is just stupid.

[ChadTower]

There in south florida you will not freeze to death.  Ever.

I don't have a specific backup source.  We have oil heat, though, and I'd bet it could be rigged to run off a backup electrical source somehow.  There are small parts of the system that are electric but I'm not sure exactly which ones.  I need to have my furnace replaced in the next year or two (24 years old) so you just gave me something to toss into the requirements.  Maybe a switchover to backup battery for the ignition or something.  I wouldn't care about the rest of the house if we had backup for hot water (also oil) and heat.

How cold does it get in your state?  If you had electric heat up here you'd be looking at many hundreds per month all winter long.  Maybe a grand in some months.

[TOK]

Generator... I'm actually considering one for the first time, since I was without power for nearly 3 days this summer. That has never happened before, and would be an even bigger disaster in the winter.
Ideally, I'd love a whole house generator with a transfer switch but it's a lot of money. A gas generator with enough power to run the fridge, TV and a couple space heaters would probably be enough to get by for a few days.

[tommy]

No we have no chance of freezing to death, but having your house roof ripped off in the middle of the night is no picnic. That along with power outages for many weeks after a bad storm is not much better.

[ChadTower]

No we have no chance of freezing to death, but having your house roof ripped off in the middle of the night is no picnic. That along with power outages for many weeks after a bad storm is not much better.

Maybe not, but when that storm is gone, the danger is gone.  Up here the danger has just started when the storm is over - people can die from hypothermia.  When your house is gone you can pitch a tent in a clear spot in the yard and you're perfectly safe.

[tommy]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

You can always run to a house next to you for shelter but all the houses here would be a hazard and are in shambles.

[ChadTower]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

24 hours is not a week or more.  I'm not saying hurricanes are not dangerous - but they are not a long term danger like -15 degree temperatures with no power.

[TOK]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

[tommy]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

He got people talking about something, anyway. Isn't that what it's all about? 

[shardian]

Hurricanes can last up to a full 24 hours or more and there is no way being cold can be worse than having things flying at you at 150 mph or more. No food, no water, no gas in you car if your car is not damaged...

24 hours is not a week or more.  I'm not saying hurricanes are not dangerous - but they are not a long term danger like -15 degree temperatures with no power.

When the dust clears in Oklahoma, there will be more than a few dead people ranging from young Children, Senior Citizens and the homeless.

[shardian]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

Yeah, no problems here. Debate away.

[tommy]

You guys should have seen the last major hurricane to hit us here, all the gas stations were full of people waiting backed up in lines way out into the main roads waiting to fill up. It was almost like the world was ending and you had to grab what you could while you could, people were even running out of gas waiting to get gas a mile away from the gas station.

[shardian]

How cold does it get in your state?  If you had electric heat up here you'd be looking at many hundreds per month all winter long.  Maybe a grand in some months.

It can get pretty cold, but lately the winters have been fairly mild. Right now it is in the 60's. Two weeks ago I was waking up to 16 degrees though.
On average in the dead of winter it usually stays around 35-40 degrees, with weeks here and there below 30.

Our house came with a new furnace, and our bill in a cold month is usually right around $100.

[shardian]

I just got an electric corner fireplace and I may consider replacing the electric unit in the mantle with a propane unit. I have a friend that has the propane unit and it works well. The only problem is that the fireplace is not on an exterior wall and I don't want to route a gas line - if that is even allowed with propane.

I am leaning towards a small generator right now.

[ChadTower]

It can get pretty cold, but lately the winters have been fairly mild. Right now it is in the 60's. Two weeks ago I was waking up to 16 degrees though.
On average in the dead of winter it usually stays around 35-40 degrees, with weeks here and there below 30.

So it's not even really that much of an emergency there in terms of the cold.  When it is still 30 outside you can get by wearing your coats and with 3 blankets and such.  It's a pain in the ass and it is unpleasant but you'd be safe with reasonable care.  We lived in a 150 year old house in NS way out in the woods - when a storm knocked down some lines it sometimes took a while to get power back.  That was dangerous as it got cold there.  We had a fireplace, though, and could all sleep in that room when there was a problem.  Wood is definitely a great backup source.

Our house came with a new furnace, and our bill in a cold month is usually right around $100.

That's not bad.  1998-2001 we lived in a basement apartment with electric hot water and waterborne baseboard heat.  We had several months where the electric bill was $500 and that was with us keeping the thermostat at 65.  At today's energy prices that would easily be a grand.

[XyloSesame]

This poll needs to have a few more options...

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

Most of the folks I know are either at a relative's house (with heat), or the two options above...

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

[shardian]

So it's not even really that much of an emergency there in terms of the cold.  When it is still 30 outside you can get by wearing your coats and with 3 blankets and such.  It's a pain in the ass and it is unpleasant but you'd be safe with reasonable care.  We lived in a 150 year old house in NS way out in the woods - when a storm knocked down some lines it sometimes took a while to get power back.  That was dangerous as it got cold there.  We had a fireplace, though, and could all sleep in that room when there was a problem.  Wood is definitely a great backup source.

Well sure a normal winter is nothing serious, but if a storm that hit like out in Oklahoma hit here and was followed by a big cold front, there would be ALOT of people in this state would be in serious trouble.

Odds are I'd buy a generator and never use it. But if there ever came a need for it, which is possible, then I'd like to be prepared. Hence the term "emergency".

[ChadTower]

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

When the fireplace is your main backup source you have to pretty much block off that room.  We had doors on all room doorways for that reason.

For an emergency generator you have to have gas on site already or be able to get it before the emergency arrives.  Like tommy said - it gets real ugly at gas stations when people are dependent on gas in an emergency.  Keep that in mind.

[shardian]

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

That ain't gonna cut it with a baby in the house that HATES blankets. Hate simply isn't a strong enough word I think.

Back in college, I briefly lived in the Co-ed dorm. The majority of the rooms had a broken heater, and a big picture window right above it. We had an ice storm that semester and the temperature was in the teens with skin piercing humidity in the air and a windchill at around 0. I slept with a hoodie, two pairs of thermal socks, two pairs of sweats, four blankets and still froze ---my bottom--- off.

So no, piling on the blankets is not a viable long term emergency option. That's what you do when the power goes out for mere hours.

[tommy]

You wouldn't think being hot in an emergency is such a bad thing but with 90+ humidity and temp it can also get very uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous stuck inside or out with nowhere to go and nothing cold to drink.

[TOK]

This poll needs to have a few more options...

I pile on the blankets and extra socks
I freeze ---my bottom--- off

Most of the folks I know are either at a relative's house (with heat), or the two options above...

My family is mainly in the blankets-and-socks category; we've got a fireplace that effectively heats a two-foot radius directly in front of it. Not complaining, though. It's warm and is being shared by friends and family without anything.

This was how I've always deal with stuff and it was no problem, but having a small kid really messes up the ability to rough it. I used to kind of like the big snows and thunderstorms, but having to deal with the mess or worrying about a freezing or heat-stroking kid has sapped my pioneer spirit. 

[JackTucky]

Sorry about your thread, Shardian. 

Yeah, Chad lives in the most dangerous place.  Don't you understand?  jeesh.

=J

[shardian]

This was how I've always deal with stuff and it was no problem, but having a small kid really messes up the ability to rough it. I used to kind of like the big snows and thunderstorms, but having to deal with the mess or worrying about a freezing or heat-stroking kid has sapped my pioneer spirit. 

No doubt. I wished for blizzards when I was a youngster. Now, the first thing that pops in my mind is "what if Elizabeth gets sick? Will we be able to get her to a doctor?"

[XyloSesame]

When the fireplace is your main backup source you have to pretty much block off that room.  We had doors on all room doorways for that reason.

We've got blankets in our doorways to block the room. Trouble is most folks we know live in drafty old houses built in the 20's; we could feel the breeze coming in, even with the drapes drawn. S'ok, though, it was still warmer than outside...

... it gets real ugly at gas stations when people are dependent on gas in an emergency.  Keep that in mind.

And dependent on coffee. There were mobs looking for both at the few stations that had power.

That ain't gonna cut it with a baby in the house that HATES blankets. Hate simply isn't a strong enough word I think.

Our three year has been sleeping with my wife and I. He has a blanket-hate as well.

The biggest problem is that he's been kicking the blankets off of us these nights (when he hasn't been kicking my nards). I think when he starts playing with matches, our blankets will be the first thing to burn. He and his 4 year old cousin (also at our fireplace-house) have been doing great; it's like a party for them. We've been grilling on our front porch to eat and they think it's just like camping...

Edit: Spellin

[ChadTower]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO Someone will die. edit by saint from advice below regarding fumes

[XyloSesame]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

I'd say no to propane inside, but only from experience. The fumes make me loooopy

[tommy]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

[ChadTower]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

[nostrebor]

We spent 11 days without power last January during an ice storm that was much like the current one. Lows in the single digits followed the storms. It was lethal to those without heat, and folks did die. We only missed this stom by a few miles, and I am grateful to be sitting this one out.

My experience with the last storm taught me a few things about heat.

1. If you have all electric heat, your screwed unless you want to buy a very large (15-20kw minimum) generator.
2. A gas furnace and a fridge can be powered by a 3000 watt generator, but that's about it.
3. City supplied water is a wonderful thing if the power goes out.

We live on a well, have gas fired furnaces, and no non-electric sources of heat. We were forced out of our home for the first 3 days because I was not prepared to deal with no power. Luckily I have family that uses wood heat and gas stoves for cooking. Bunking with 11 family members and a 1 year old is not a good time though, so we found a way to get back in our home ASAP. I had to go to at least a 7000 watt generator to run a freezer, fridge, furnace, and well pump. It will also pull a light or two and the TV, which is a big plus if you have kids.

We now own an 8500 watt generator, and a transfer switch. If the power goes I can get us back up and running in about 10 minutes. We did buy a portable unit, so fuel is an issue, but you usually know when a hurricane or ice storm is coming. With that in mind, we own (4) 6 gallon gas cans. I go fill them before the potential event and thus have a 3 day supply of fuel for the gen if needed. If we don't need the fuel, I just fill up the cars with it, so it's no big deal.

Living in a rural area on a well and overhead lines and not owning a generator is just stupid. If there is any chance of a weather related event in your area, especially if you have children, you need to be prepared.

[tommy]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

You've obviously never cooked chicken or hamburger in a room with no air going through it, it gets filled up very quickly and is not something that should be done unless there is no other option. What the food is cooked on really does not matter, the meat alone burning is bad enough, and it lingers around well after.

[nostrebor]

Is it safe to bring a propane grill inside or are the burned fumes toxic?  If it's safe you could bring that into the kitchen, and if you're damn careful, keep the heat from cooking in the house. 

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

There were 2 deaths here last year from folks trying to have a BBQ in their house during the ice storm. Gas grills put of huge amounts of Carbon monoxide. It's the same reason you have to vent your furnaces out of the house, so the propane or natural gas combustion fumes won't kill you.


NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

[XyloSesame]

I think cooking meat would be pretty toxic on a grill in a house with nowhere for the smoke to go.

Meat makes almost no smoke.  It's the propane burning fumes you'd have to worry about.  Better safe than sorry and not doing it if you don't know for sure.  It was just a thought.

There are propane and kerosene based space heaters, yes?

Yes, I have three or four propane heaters at my theater. They stink. And give headaches. And are dizzy-fying. I'd be hesitant to take them to any enclosed spaces, and would recommend others do not...

[tommy]

If anyone is ever in an emergency with chad, keep him away from the grill. 

[ChadTower]

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

NO!!!!!!

Cool.  Now we know.

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

[XyloSesame]

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

I know a few vegans that would disagree.

[tommy]

Tommy, people cook meat in the house all the time.  "Meat fumes" don't fill the house up every time someone cooks dinner.  No one gets killed from "meat vapors".

Not in an emergency when there is no air going around or you can't open a window. Under normal circumstances people DO cook meat in a house, yes.

People trapped or bundled into a house from bad weather should not be trapped in there with smoke if possible.

[ChadTower]

People trapped or bundled into a house from bad weather should not be trapped in there with smoke if possible.

That pretty much describes December to March here.  We cook meat all the time with no doors and windows open.  There have been zero meat vapor related incidents.  Maybe you shouldn't burn your meat.  Cooking meat doesn't give off smoke... burning it does.

Xylo, why would a vegan be cooking themselves meat to begin with?  It would be kind of funny to see what happens to a vegan when they run out of Tofu, though. 

When the power went out for us when I was a kid we used to put cold but not freezable stuff outside in a cooler with some hot water in a pan.  Coolers keep cold out nearly as well as they keep it in. 

[tommy]

 We cook meat all the time with no doors and windows open. 

Are you cooking in the house right now with no air going through the house?   

[ChadTower]

Yes, but it's your house.  Your dog just fell down.  I'm not sure why.

[XyloSesame]

Xylo, why would a vegan be cooking themselves meat to begin with?  It would be kind of funny to see what happens to a vegan when they run out of Tofu, though.

Man, I know a vegan who says they can smell the meat on your clothes.

When the power went out for us when I was a kid we used to put cold but not freezable stuff outside in a cooler with some hot water in a pan.  Coolers keep cold out nearly as well as they keep it in. 

We had almost our entire fridge on the front lawn before the temps raised above freezing...

Yes, but it's your house.  Your dog just fell down.  I'm not sure why.

It's either the meat fumes or the fact that you're cooking one of his legs.

[ChadTower]

Man, I know a vegan who says they can smell the meat on your clothes.

Tell him you can smell the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- in his words.

We had almost our entire fridge on the front lawn before the temps raised above freezing...

In college in the winter I used to hang frozen dinners out the window in a bucket (6th floor).   

It's either the meat fumes or the fact that you're cooking one of his legs.

It's not my fault everything in his fridge spoiled when the power went out.

[tommy]

Meat is Delicious. Too delicious to pass on. I never understood not eating meat, i understand the meaning for people like that but not eating meat leaves you feeling all empty and not full inside.

No homo jokes please. 

[vader]

Just light your house on fire stand outside and you'll stay warm.  Make sure your homeowners policy is up to date and don't leave fingerprints on the gas can.

[shardian]

Wow, I totally missed the propane debate.

Gas grills = Do not use indoors, or even under any overhang such as in your garage or covered car port. They are horribly inefficient and spew fumes into the air.

Propane space heaters (like the ones that attach to a gas grill propane tank). Don't use these inside either. They are a tip/fire hazard and they also will put off fumes. I considered this for my garage until I did my research.
Don't use this guy in your house!!

The only safe propane/gas heat in your house are clearly marked and approved for use in-house. You can buy wall-mounted propane heaters for you house. Then you can put a larger propane tank right outside the wall for it. They aren't vented, but rather engineered to have a very efficient combustion process. They also have an oxygen sensor that monitors the level of oxygen in the air and shuts off if the level gets close to being too low. Still, it is considered a good idea to at least crack a window.
You can use this guy in your house

[boykster]

To follow up Sharidans post about BBQ's in/near homes or even garages, don't do it.  During a power outage in the Seattle area last year, an entire family died from carbon monoxide poisoning because they were cooking on their propane BBQ in the garage.  It just so happens that the furnace intake was also in the garage and the carbon monoxide spread to the entire house.  The only surviving member of the family was not home at the time.

DON'T DO IT!

[shardian]

Oh hell, since we're already on the safety subject I'll throw this out there: If you have an attached garage you should have at least one carbon monoxide detector in your house. If you don't just replace a smoke detector with a combination detector.
Those people would never have died if they had had a CO detector.

[ChadTower]

Oh hell, since we're already on the safety subject I'll throw this out there: If you have an attached garage you should have at least one carbon monoxide detector in your house. If you don't just replace a smoke detector with a combination detector.
Those people would never have died if they had had a CO detector.

Carbon monoxide detectors are legally required in Massachusetts.  This is a very recent law. 

Of course, I am the only person I know who actually has carbon monoxide detectors.  I put combo detector in in the fall because the expiration date had passed for all of our smoke detectors.  I had no idea until then that they even had expiration dates.

Added suggestion to the previous:  check the expiration dates on existing units.  They're only rated for 5-6 years.

[vader]

Chad,

Is there ANYTHING you don't have or haven't done in your lifetime ?  I swear someone could say they have a nuclear furnace in their basement and you would reply " Had one, but it caused too much heat and the radiation made my kids glow so I volunteered time a St. Judes Children's Hospital to coach for their football team.

[ChadTower]

You're welcome to come see the detectors if you'd like.   

I don't mind if my kids glow.  Makes them easier to spot in a crowd.

[vader]

You're welcome to come see the detectors if you'd like.   

I don't mind if my kids glow.  Makes them easier to spot in a crowd.

No thank you, too far of a drive and nothing to watch at your house except OTA programming.  Thanks for the invite though.

[ChadTower]

nothing to watch at your house except OTA programming.

Erm, that's not true and not sure where that info comes from...?

[vader]

nothing to watch at your house except OTA programming.

Erm, that's not true and not sure where that info comes from...?

errmmm...  didn't you say at one point that TV was bad for the kids so you woun't have cable installed.  I've may have been mistaken since there are so many things your against.  Maybe I was thinking it was cell phones your against  because they are the bane of the devil.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Of course, I am the only person I know who actually has carbon monoxide detectors. 

Now you know someone else. I have them all throughout my New England home. (Stairwells, basement and attic)

[ChadTower]

errmmm...  didn't you say at one point that TV was bad for the kids so you woun't have cable installed.  I've may have been mistaken since there are so many things your against.  Maybe I was thinking it was cell phones your against  because they are the bane of the devil.

No, that wasn't me, if anyone at all said it.     We have DirecTV.

Mr C, that's cool.  I meant RL people but I really do wish more people were putting them in.  Too people I know don't even have smoke detectors. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Mr C, that's cool.  I meant RL people...

BUT I AM REAL!!! 

j/k - I'm really just rogue code in the Matrix.

[ChadTower]

Mr C, that's cool.  I meant RL people...

BUT I AM REAL!!! 

j/k - I'm really just rogue code in the Matrix.

Is there a law in MA now that you have to have them in order to transfer ownership?  You just bought recently - all of the people I'm thinking of have had their houses a long time.  Our house had brand new detectors in it when we bought it but that was in 2001 - hence the 5-6 year expiration date I mentioned and why I replaced them in the fall.

[JackTucky]

Chad,
Is there ANYTHING you don't have or haven't done in your lifetime ? 

What are you a noob?

=J

[shardian]

Chad,
Is there ANYTHING you don't have or haven't done in your lifetime ? 

What are you a noob?

=J

 

Yep, most of us residents just accept Chad for who he is...(take that as you will)

[tommy]

Just don't let Chad go near the grill without at least an open window around. 

[CheffoJeffo]

And it's not even my birthday ... so when does USSE show up to complete the trifecta ?

 

[Ed_McCarron]

Coolers keep cold out nearly as well as they keep it in. 

Damn.  How do they know whether to keep it hot or cold?

[shmokes]

Folks.. you live in the United States, a land overly full of abundant resources.  It's not difficult to find shelter.  You have several days worth of food in your house already.  More food will be arriving at the stores in less than a week.

Tell that to New Orleans

[CheffoJeffo]

Folks.. you live in the United States, a land overly full of abundant resources.  It's not difficult to find shelter.  You have several days worth of food in your house already.  More food will be arriving at the stores in less than a week.

Tell that to New Orleans

Nicely done ... maybe PBJ is the new USSE ...

[ChadTower]

Well let's think about this a bit... how many times has something the scale of New Orleans happened in the US in the last century?  When people prepare for a storm they aren't preparing for their entire region to be wiped off the soil.  You can't do much more than run from that.  Nothing Sharidan could possibly do other than flee would help his family if something like that happened in his state, so really, all he can do to prepare is make sure he has a place to go and a way to get there.

[shmokes]

Well . . . New Orleans was kind of a perfect storm situation (excuse the pun).  Even a Category 5 hurricane would not do that kind of damage in most cities, as most cities don't sit below sea level, next to a big-ass lake with shoddy levies.

However, ice storms, hurricanes, earthquakes, heat waves, Godzilla, etc., can make things pretty freaking bad.  From what I'm told, here in Miami, when there is a hurricane coming the grocery stores are literally empty.  People make a mad rush on food, gas and home depot.  If you aren't prepared you can be pretty ---fouled up beyond all recognition---.  When the storm is over it's gonna heat up, and maybe that won't kill you, but it's gonna make things pretty tough if you don't have access to any food.  And what if the municipal water supply is compromised?

With that said, I have a 72 hour kit.  It's sealed in a coffee can.  I should have water to go with it, but don't.

[shmokes]

I'm actually not sure what you're saying . . . you're clearly implying something, but I can't tell what.

[ChadTower]

With that said, I have a 72 hour kit.  It's sealed in a coffee can.  I should have water to go with it, but don't.

You have 72 hours of supplies for three people, including a baby, in a coffee can?

[shardian]

There were more than a few people who intentionally stayed behind because they had nothing to lose and everything to gain by looting, and then letting the government take care of them.
Sad but true.

However, there were also MANY people who stayed behind because they had no way of getting out. Elderly people, people with no transportation, people with no families to go to, people with no money to afford somewhere to stay by leaving in advance. Remember the nursing home in which the workers just left without getting the incapacitated patients out? I believe a few of them are in jail now.

Anyways, I'll stop there to keep out of the P&R realm.

[shardian]

With that said, I have a 72 hour kit.  It's sealed in a coffee can.  I should have water to go with it, but don't.

You have 72 hours of supplies for three people, including a baby, in a coffee can?

I was getting ready to say the same thing.

[shardian]

I'm saying if you can't survive a week or two without electricity in a warm climate, then you're a waste of resources.

Apparently someone here has never heard of heat stroke.

[shardian]

Apparently someone here has never heard of heat stroke.

Apparently someone here thinks air conditioning has been around forever.

And little kids and elderly folks died in those heat waves too.

[shmokes]

I have one each for my wife and me.  Baby doesn't have one, actually.   

We made them at an employee retreat when I worked for the Health Dept. in Utah.  Mormons are obsessed with 72 hour kits and food storage.  Many people have six-month supplies of food in their basements there.

Really, I think you should just take reasonable precautions.  72 hour kits are inexpensive and take up barely any space.  If you never use it, you've lost almost nothing.  If you ever need to use it, you'll be really really glad you had it.  I also keep a blanket and one of these propane catalytic heaters in my car (though now that I live in south Florida I can probably take those out.

[ahofle]

Reminds me of a story my friend told me.  His neighbor (a Mormon) was always telling him about his emergency food/water/supplies stores and was constantly urging him to do the same in case of Armageddon.  He replied, "that's OK, I have guns and I know where there is plenty of food and water." 

[divemaster127]

In tulsa last night on the news over 100 people went to the hospital for running generators inside their home or building fires in their home(people are getting desperate & short tempered).  BOTH of these ARE big no no's.  A friend of mine purchased a $1,000 dollar generator & after a hour he & his wife could not figure out why the house was still cold.  They could hear the unit running so he opened the front door to check the generator & there sat a $20.00 lawn mower running.
dm

[XyloSesame]

In tulsa last night on the news over 100 people went to the hospital for running generators inside their home or building fires in their home(people are getting desperate & short tempered).  BOTH of these ARE big no no's.  A friend of mine purchased a $1,000 dollar generator & after a hour he & his wife could not figure out why the house was still cold.  They could hear the unit running so he opened the front door to check the generator & there sat a $20.00 lawn mower running.
dm

I've got a friend who has power but his neighbor does not (separate transformers). He pigtailed an extension cord from his neighbor's blower fan to his powered house so the neighbor could use their central gas heat... Desperate and short tempered is exactly correct.

[nostrebor]

A friend of mine purchased a $1,000 dollar generator & after a hour he & his wife could not figure out why the house was still cold.  They could hear the unit running so he opened the front door to check the generator & there sat a $20.00 lawn mower running.
dm

This happened regularly last January during the ice storm here. The first three days someone was stealing the generators from the railroad crossings. After the Sheriff caught the first guy (literally red-handed) and put his name, address, and picture all over the news, people stopped stealing the RR generators. We were double chaining our generator to a 500 gallon propane tank with log chains and kryptonite brand padlocks. It just didn't make sense to pay $1000 for a gen and not go ahead and drop $50 on some good locks.

[knave]

This thread has been a good read.  My question is, for those who might know...

How would I get my Gas heat to function in a power outage... 

I know it has an electric ignition, so could I use a car battery, 9 volts etc...?
Or would I have to build something more dedicated?

With no pilot is there still has to be some sort of thermocouple or heat sensitive shutoff?

Anyone here good a HVAC?

It would be possible but not plesent to use our fireplace. 


And a note about the 72hour kits...I've thought about building something like this before but I always look at the shelves full of canned goods in our pantry and forget it.  I'm much more concerned about water, we have at least a week or two worth of food not counting what's in the freezer.

[BobA]

If you have forced air gas heating you will need to provide power for your control circuits and your fan.  If you have a newer unit with a pilot that ignites when heat is required then the fan and controls must have 120V probably from a portable gen to run.   I suggest a portable gen because your fan motor requires quite a bit of power to run.  If you have the older style forced air heat with a constant pilot your controls are not as complex but you will still have to power your fan motor with 120Vac so an aux gen is probably required again.

A 1/4 HP fan motor can easily require 600W to run and much more to start.  This is considered a small furnace motor.

If you have a constant pilot then the thermocouple keeps the valve open as long has you have flame.  It does not require external voltage to operate.  This is why a gas fireplace will operate without 120V.  If the thermocouple has flame then the on switch will open the gas valve without any other voltage.   A gas fireplace can provide alot of heat if supplemented with a 12V fan.

[tommy]

Apparently someone here has never heard of heat stroke.

Apparently someone here thinks air conditioning has been around forever.

I sat around every day, all day, in 90+ degree weather for years.  Somehow I survived.

This guy has never been in any situation other than sitting in his basement waiting for his mommy to ring the bell for him to come up and eat, obviously.

[CheffoJeffo]

Apparently someone here has never heard of heat stroke.

Apparently someone here thinks air conditioning has been around forever.

I sat around every day, all day, in 90+ degree weather for years.  Somehow I survived.

This guy has never been in any situation other than sitting in his basement waiting for his mommy to ring the bell for him to come up and eat, obviously.

Whoa ... I agreed with Maxim and tommy all in the same week ...

 

[tommy]

Who would you agree with on this board that you wouldn't see it as being strange? I haven't seen anyone yet you have not said that about.

[CheffoJeffo]

Who would you agree with on this board that you wouldn't see it as being strange? I haven't seen anyone yet you have not said that about.

Normally, I wouldn't bite this bait (let's admit it ... normally you don't make a lot of sense), but let's say ...

missioncontrol

and see what you do with it.

[tommy]

I guess you're just one of those people who think if they don't agree with someone on a few or a lot of situations then there is no possible way you can EVER agree with a person from that point on. That's odd to me.

[CheffoJeffo]

I guess you're just one of those people who think if they don't agree with someone on a few or a lot of situations then there is no possible way you can EVER agree with a person from that point on. That's odd to me.

No, I just find the odds of me agreeing with MaximRecoil and you in the same 7-day period odd.

I don't agree with mission on everything he ever says, but since he doesn't make a habit out of saying completely ridiculous things, I figured that I wouldn't be surprised to agree with him (that was what you asked, wasn't it?). Same would be true for drew ... I don't agree with everything he says, but since he isn't an idiot all of the time, I'm not surprised to agree with him on occasion. Same with most people here ... I actually expect that, from time to time, we will agree.

You, PBJ and Maxim, on the other hand ... it's completely shocking to me that any of you ever actually say anything reasonable ...

 

[tommy]

I find that post very offensive and I may consider reporting it to a moderator at a later date.   

[CheffoJeffo]

I may consider reporting it to a moderator at a later date.   

Slacker .... 

[Edgedamage]

They also have conversion kits to make gas generators run off the home natural gas / propane supply.

[knave]

After looking into this a bit, I would for sure need a generator.  the blower and ignition controls would eat through any battery system...My last house had a wall furnice so it was all convection...I didn't even think about the huge blower that moves the air around the house.  That said, Someday I'll pick up a generator but I could then just as easily heat just one room with a space heater.  Plus it's not that cold here, so the fireplace would probably do. (it's actually an insert and can put out a bit of heat (in that one room.)  I'm still more worried about a fresh water supply if there were any sort of major disaster.

Something to think about.

[ChadTower]

Would you be able to function with just the ignition/control and no fan in an emergency situation?  I'd MUCH rather temporarily be forced air instead of blown than to have to deal with gas/generator/dude swapping it with a mower.

[missioncontrol]

Who would you agree with on this board that you wouldn't see it as being strange? I haven't seen anyone yet you have not said that about.

Normally, I wouldn't bite this bait (let's admit it ... normally you don't make a lot of sense), but let's say ...

missioncontrol

and see what you do with it.

I agree that it is difficult to agree with missioncontrol....

[knave]

Would you be able to function with just the ignition/control and no fan in an emergency situation?  I'd MUCH rather temporarily be forced air instead of blown than to have to deal with gas/generator/dude swapping it with a mower.

I'm not sure how much good that would do without some hefty mods to the duct system.  As it stands my impression is that without the blower the unit would overheat. Also I don't think the heat would effectively travel.  I am sure there is a way to make it work but our need is not there. 

I'm pretty sure any generator wuld be pretty safe in our backyard...but I can see that locking it up would be a good idea.  (Won't have to deal with that for a long time anyhow.)

[nostrebor]

Would you be able to function with just the ignition/control and no fan in an emergency situation?  I'd MUCH rather temporarily be forced air instead of blown than to have to deal with gas/generator/dude swapping it with a mower.

Nope. Without the fan running, the control boards will not let the unit continue to operate. Plus the fact that a forced air furnace with no fan has no means to get the heat thorough the ducts and to the people.

A small generator (1500 watt) will start and run an average forced air gas furnace. It won't do much else, but at least you could have some heat. Furnaces are typically on their own circuit, so a generator and a transfer switch can be used to power just that circuit. There are other creative ways to get power to a furnace circuit as well, but they don't meet code so I won't be discussing them here.

Fresh water was brought up. It is a huge concern over the long haul or in a situation like Katrina. In our case last January, with some searching, we could find bottled water after the first 48 hours. We could also go into the city and get water from the municipal system. When we knew that the storm was coming, we filled all our bathtubs with water and several large plastic totes with water. If you're on a well and the power goes out, you soon lose the ability to flush your toilets. Having a 3 gallon bucket and some water in reserve, will allow a toilet flush for the inevitable chong. You can also boil bathtub water to drink in a pinch, assuming you have a means to boil it.

At the end of our 11 day stint, we were getting pretty good (almost comfortable) at surviving without power and running water. Even though the experience sucked *alot* I did learn much from it.

[shardian]

You can also boil bathtub water to drink in a pinch, assuming you have a means to boil it.

1 gallon water + 3 drops bleach = drinking water

Add koolaid or other flavorings as needed.

In Iraq, or soldiers have a water truck which then has the proper amount of bleach put in to clean it. of course, the guys who run the truck don't give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- and put in too much bleach usually. That is why my buddy BEGGED everyone to send him koolaid mixes. Same thing in Korea, same thing in Vietnam, etc, etc.