I'm amazed at how many people have the wrong idea...

[tommy]

African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?

That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.

[ratzz]

I'm a fine dog owner and a fine person, thank you. 

I'm sure you are, and as such I think you'll just have to agree to disagree with other peoples opinions of pitbulls.

I have to add though, that if one of my 5 year old daughters friends wanted a playdate at their house, and I knew they had a pitball, there would be no way she would be going. Ever.

Ratzz

[shardian]

African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?

That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.

First off, are you SURE black peopleoutnumber white people in prison?Maybe you're just a racist.

Anyways, please stop comparing animal behavior to human behavior. That is a ridiculously bad argument and you just end up looking stupid.I'm tryin to help ya' little pup.

[tommy]

African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?

That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.

First off, are you SURE black peopleoutnumber white people in prison?Maybe you're just a racist.

Anyways, please stop comparing animal behavior to human behavior. That is a ridiculously bad argument and you just end up looking stupid.I'm tryin to help ya' little pup.

It's the same concept, man. Do you get the idea and concept? 

[CheffoJeffo]

So, you just like to have your little answer about things and all is ok with your life? No matter if it's true or not?

[tommy]

Come on jeffo, say something in your own words about this topic.

I have a feeling you agree with me in some small way.

You can't go on all your life quoting such a great writer as myself. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Read the thread, tommy ... I have said plenty (something about the intellectual capacity of your dog ?)  and you seem to disagree with me on the one point that I consider key ... EVERY dog has the potential to attack because they are ANIMALS.

Anybody who ignores that basic fact is a fool and, in the case of someone who owns a dog that can do permanent or fatal damage, a complete (and criminally irresponsible) idiot. People like this can be identified by such ridiculous statements as "I've trained my dog so that they are completely obedient".

You also seem to misunderstand the purpose of the TommySwami(tm) ... it allows me to provide an ability-matched opponent for you. After all, who else could come up with

I guess we all just need a warm safe place to lay our head and feel safe in our own mind.

It's a good thing that place is too small for a pitbull to sneak in ...

[patrickl]

African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?

That's how ridiculous your pit bull argument is. It's all nonsense.

That race vs breed nonsense argument is what is completely ridiculous. African Americans and Caucasians are almost identical apart from the skin color. A pit bull and a poodle are worlds apart.

You really cannot tell the difference between a pit bull and a poodle? Why not keep a poodle instead then?

A puma and a housecat are both cats. In fact a puma is just as easy to domesticate as a housecat. Would you keep a puma in your house? Or lions. Another cat. In the circus they keep them just fine. Lions are so friendly you can put your head in their mouth. Just because one bad lion ate a person is no reason to ban all lions. Completely ridiculous indeed.

[tommy]

That's not what i said and that's not the concept.

There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.

Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.

[HaRuMaN]

Latest news:

CNN Video: Two Good Samaritans prevented a pit bull from killing an Ohio boy.

[tommy]

Is a story about a pit killing someone supposed to mean something special to anyone?

It's a sad story that someone got hurt or died, but it really has nothing to do with these dogs that anything else that is living could not also do givin the right circumstances, or wrong circumstances.

These dogs that hurt people have owners that wanted the dog to act that way and so, it does. Then when you get enough idiots with these dogs that want to have them act this way you get a bad rep. It could happen to anything big enough to cause harm..

[AtomSmasher]

That's not what i said and that's not the concept.

There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.

Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.

Heh, seems like a much smaller difference then the one between a domesticated dog and a human, which is the comparison you are often making.

[rovingmind]

My wife HAD a domesticated dog.  It was a trained Jack Russell Terrier that she had since it was 8 weeks old.  

We have a 1 year old daughter.
Said dog bit said daughter on the face.  

He was watched constantly from the moment she was born, they were introduced slowly and the potential clash between girl and dog didnt happen until food was involved.  

She walked up and took a chewie out of his mouth.  A typical child action.  Were this a pitbull i would no longer have a child.  

I dont support a general Ban on anything.  But, if a neighbor of mine gets a pitbull, a rottweiler or a doberman I would have no qualms about removing it from my property in a garbage bag, if it were acting vicious at all.

A dog is an animal, not a member of the family.  

I'll chase it home with a broom once, maybe twice depending on my mood.  After that the problem will quietly go away.

[tommy]

There is nothing more i can say. We all know a small caliber gun would cause less damage then a bigger one, but in the right hands there would be no chance of even being shot. This is all moot.

[patrickl]

That's not what i said and that's not the concept.

There is a difference between a wild animal held captive in a human environment to a domesticated dog.

Don't be silly and go to the other end of the spectrum.

A puma can be domesticated just as easily as any regular house cat and circus lions are pretty domesticated too.

The reason we don't hold these animals in our homes (apart from the size of course) is the same as why pit bulls are so dangerous. Even though they may appear friendly and obedient, it takes just one mistake where they bite (or in the felines case claw) and you are in deep trouble. A well trained pit is very unlikely to bite someone, but if it does bite then the damage is severe. You can never completely prevent accidents with animals. So there always is a risk with bites and with pit bulls doing that much damage it's just too much of a risk to take with your own and other people's limbs/lives.

It's not the individual character or behavior of a dog that's in question. There you might argue that a friendly dog is less worse than an aggressive one. Obviously that is true. The point is the physical difference between a pit bull and a poodle which makes the bite of a pitbull so much more devastating than that of a poodle.

This severe damage is what makes the "actuarial risk" of a pit bull so much higher than that of other dogs.

[rovingmind]

yes and a poorly trained pitbull, is a high caliber gun in the hands of a trained killer on pcp.

ie.  deadly, and unpredictable

[patrickl]

There is nothing more i can say. We all know a small caliber gun would cause less damage then a bigger one, but in the right hands there would be no chance of even being shot. This is all moot.

Guns don't kill people, people do. So do dogs. On their own.

[patrickl]

Is a story about a pit killing someone supposed to mean something special to anyone?

It's a sad story that someone got hurt or died, but it really has nothing to do with these dogs that anything else that is living could not also do givin the right circumstances, or wrong circumstances.

These dogs that hurt people have owners that wanted the dog to act that way and so, it does. Then when you get enough idiots with these dogs that want to have them act this way you get a bad rep. It could happen to anything big enough to cause harm..

There you go again. Denying the statistical truth.

Pit bulls and their mixes are responsible for 1182 (54%) of attacks that were included in the study, 521 (46%) of the attacks upon children, 410 (62%) of the attacks upon adults, 110 (42%) of the deaths, and 636 (48%) of the maimings

In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question.

Sure a poodle COULD kill a person, but they just DON'T. What's the point of these claims?

[tommy]

You know what you can do with your stats. I'm living it 24/7 and see it all to be lies and false truths.

See ya.

[shardian]

See ya.

Smartest thing you've said in the whole thread.

[rovingmind]

A good test of Tommys dogs training would be for him to put on a bacon coat and do some off-leash work while crouching down.

[shardian]

A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.

[rovingmind]

A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.

yeah but i wouldn't want his neighbors to have to risk their lives for the test. 

[patrickl]

You know what you can do with your stats. I'm living it 24/7 and see it all to be lies and false truths.

That's is exactly the problem. You are unable/unwilling to understand statistics. It's not a fact that a pitbull will attack and maime someone. It's the risk that it might maime someone and you cannot see that from one example.

In fact your example fits in with the statistics perfectly. If your dog does ever attack then you will be with the 424 other owners who also stated their dog was a nice dog and then claimed their surprise to the fact that their dog just maimed someone.

I seriously hope you will never have to say to someone that you thought it was such a nice dog.

[patrickl]

A better test would be giving his dog free roam of the neighborhood and see just how friendly his dog is without "master's hand" nearby.

I lived in/near Amsterdam and knew some people in the lower tax brackets there too so they tend to have pits as well. I can attest that these were all very friendly dogs indeed. Not a bark or a growl. Still, 2 thirds of the fatal attacks comes from these friendly dogs.

[CheffoJeffo]

You know what you can do with your stats.

It takes even less brain power to be an idiot

[rovingmind]

You know what you can do with your stats.

It takes even less brain power to be an idiot

LMAO

[HaRuMaN]

You know what you can do with your stats.

It takes even less brain power to be an idiot

The quote-fu is strong with this one... 

[CheffoJeffo]

Iif i take the time to read a thread and see someone being an ass i will tell him all about it in detail.

[tommy]

Iif i take the time to read a thread and see someone being an ass i will tell him all about it in detail.

 

That's one of my best ones yet.

[CheffoJeffo]

I agree, but talk that makes sense would be nice.

[CCM]

Saw this on the local news this morning:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/14595454/detail.html

The owner said the dog is trained and has no idea why this happened.

I just can't believe that a trained pit bull would bite someone... that's just unheard of...

[CheffoJeffo]

The owner said the dog is trained and has no idea why this happened.

I just can't believe that a trained pit bull would bite someone... that's just unheard of...

Must be misinformation ... p33pz n33dz 2 chi11z ...

 

[ChadTower]

African American people populate the worlds prisons far more than Caucasians do. Does that mean we need to do something about this race of people, maybe get rid of them so we have less crime in the world, and i guess since the majority of the prison population is black there is no chance that you will ever run across a nice black person or one that has never been in trouble in his or her whole life and is a good person?

If you follow tommy's cause-effect logic, he just said that this country has a problem with untrained black people that have bad owners.

[SithMaster]

It's so sad that in this day and age that Tommy is so ignorant as to STILL lump things that seem dissimilar all in one group and STILL not know that all things are NOT created equal. How can you not know that when people combined with circumstance's interact with things on this earth there are good results and bad, that's all.

Tommy guys is so lost it's not funny. If you can judge this one idea so badly i have to think that you are living a life in an ignorancefull bliss.

i forgot how good this thread was.

dont worry guys when tommy tries to take a chewie out of the dogs mouth i have a feeling we wont be seeing much more of him here.

[Dartful Dodger]

dont worry guys when tommy tries to take a chewie out of the dogs mouth i have a feeling we wont be seeing much more of him here.

Don’t listen to him tommy.  After they sew one of your big toes onto what's left of your hand, you’ll still be able to out type your thoughts.

[tommy]

My dog bows down to people after what I've taught him, there is no situation to where he thinks he is in a position to try to be the boss. My pit knows what his role is in life and that role does not include disobeying a person who tells it what to do or trying to defend itself in any situation.

I don't want to say he is scared of humans ( kinda like we just know that a bear is not something we want to mess with, he feels that way towards us) but for lack of a better word that is the case in a sense of him ever doing anything that can cause harm towards my family or anyone who he comes in contact with.

EDIT, added to response.

[rovingmind]

so youve trained your dog to obey all commands from you even if your in a position of non dominance, ie: kneeling, or sitting flat on the floor so that your at or below his eye level?

Lay on the floor with a raw steak sitting on your stomach and have your dog obey a six year old while off leash without you giving any commands  , video tape it and post it on youtube and I'll believe you.

[shardian]

so youve trained your dog to obey all commands from you even if your in a position of non dominance, ie: kneeling, or sitting flat on the floor so that your at or below his eye level?

Lay on the floor with a raw steak sitting on your stomach and have your dog obey a six year old while off leash without you giving any commands  , video tape it and post it on youtube and I'll believe you.

All he's gotta do is let his dog out of the house for a few days to see how quick his "years of training" will fly right out the window.

[patrickl]

or subject the dog to loud noise for a while and see if it still behaves as friendly as before