Author Topic: No color or clear image with AVGA2 and WG 25"... suggestions? (Read 3558 times)

weasel-like_animal · « **on:** October 12, 2007, 08:44:24 pm »

I'm SO close to getting my first cabinet up and running!

I finished my CP, tested it in MAME, set options, etc... I just hooked up my new AVGA 2 with VGA breakout cable to my WG 25K7193. ** Note: I also have had my PC hooked up via DVI->VGA converter and it looked AWESOME on the PC monitor.**

My WG monitor won't display anything legible via AVGA. When I tested it in the shop before buying it it looked great, real crisp colors and minimal screen burn, only "INSERT COIN"

So I don't think anything is wrong with the monitor.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should be looking for as far as trouble points? The screen is grayed out, no color really, just some faint silhouettes of the boot process and windows when it loads. The silhouettes look like cheezy emboss filters in photoshop. I have the breakout molex plugged in right, and its hooked into the VGA port of the AVGA2... what else could I be missing?

The vertical hold is good and ive been able to adjust the size of the screen with the remote monitor pots, but still no color or even legible picture!

My digital camera broke so I can't get a picture, but this attached photoshopped shot is close to what I'm getting.

Please help! I'm SO CLOSE!! lol

Thanks

W-L_A

shilmover · « **Reply #1 on:** October 12, 2007, 09:42:49 pm »

What is your resolution set at?

bluevolume · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2007, 12:15:16 am »

Did you try adjusting the signal level? On your WG monitor there will be 2 knobs on the flyback (the transformer that the thick red wire goes into). The upper knob is focus and the lower is 'screen', which means input signal level.

You should be able to turn that up a touch and things should start looking better.

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2007, 01:40:26 am »

Thank you for the suggestion bluevolume! I'll check that out tomorrow when I'm sober

I REALLY hope its as easy as turning up the signal.

shilmover: I set the resolution at 640x480@60 hz everywhere I know how, desktop properties, the little Galaga icon for the Ultimarc software... I have the PC monitor hooked up in conjunction with the arcade monitor and its behaving just fine, its the WG that is being whack. Is there a setting somewhere that needs to be ticked for the AVGA to recognize that its hooked up to a arcade monitor?

Anyway, thanks guys. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow with the flyback.

W-L_A

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2007, 11:57:14 am »

Update: I messed with the knobs and managed to get a somewhat "useable" image, however its waaaaay off center. Increasing the screen knob on the flyback only helped marginally. Does this mean my signal needs to be amplified? The colors are totally whacked out... Btw the image should be displaying the windows desktop, with an image I took in Australia in the mountains as the background. The left side should be on the right, and the right on the left. It looks wrapped over to me. Obviously, the colors are completely off, but this is the best I could find with playing with the knobs on the chassis.

Also, I think I might not be getting signal from the VGA output on my AVGA2. This image came from when I hooked the arcade monitor to the DVI output, with a converter dongle. I can't get any image like this from the VGA-only hook-up. Faulty card?

CathalDublin · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:13:36 pm »

Do you see the bios and boot screens with the AVGA2?
plugged into the proper VGA 15khz output
If you do the card aint faulty

bluevolume · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:24:14 pm »

I would say that you should disconnect that monitor immediately, and wait for someone here to help. You should not be connecting that monitor to the DVI port, it could destroy the monitor.

But, I'm certainly not the best with arcade monitors. Let Ken or Grantspain help you.

CathalDublin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2007, 02:33:01 pm »

agree with blue volume
do not plug it into the dvi port as its not outputting 15khz

grantspain · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2007, 04:07:55 pm »

hmmm,don't like mame stuff myself
you can see from the photo that the picture is the wrong frequency and the green is missing
my advice to you is contact Andy at ultimarc as my bet is you have a driver problem but anyway he will know the exact problem

AndyWarne · « **Reply #9 on:** October 15, 2007, 05:46:02 am »

Note that the arcade monitor will not display a picture from boot if you have the PC monitor connected at the same time. You can use both the PC and arcade monitor together but only after Windows has loaded and everything is configured.
Have you tried it with only the arcade monitor connected?
Andy

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #10 on:** October 15, 2007, 08:23:52 pm »

Andy, thanks for the tip on one monitor at a time, that helped the split screen and I got a signal! I've attached some pics... it was hard to capture the screen on camera, the contrast is very low and all washed out with a green-gray color. Here is what I'm getting now. I've tried adjusting pots again, but little success.

I can play games, but barely. A round of metal slug was just enough to appease my roommate for another few days. Our apartment is COVERED in parts and tools.

Does anyone recognize these ailments based on the photos? Closer and closer. Also, how loud should a monitor be? My cabinet has the back panels off and the marquee off, and it seems pretty loud. It is emitting typical tube sounds, but louder than I'm used to with TVs and CRT monitors.

THANKS!!!

Edit: I apologize in advance for the crappy phone pics... my camera decided to just stop working on day...

grantspain · « **Reply #11 on:** October 16, 2007, 12:08:37 am »

those images seem to imply you need a video amp

SirPeale · « **Reply #12 on:** October 16, 2007, 01:45:50 am »

It would seem that way, but I've heard the K7000s don't need one. But I haven't experimented to try this.

AndyWarne · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2007, 07:40:30 am »

K7000s should not need the amp.
Its a strange problem as all 3 color signals seem to be affected if its generally dim, so this seems to rule out a wiring problem. Its as though the contrast is turned right down. Does the contrast control (on the small control board) actually make any difference when turned?
Andy

bluevolume · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2007, 09:36:11 am »

Quote from: AndyWarne on October 16, 2007, 07:40:30 am

K7000s should not need the amp.
Its a strange problem as all 3 color signals seem to be affected if its generally dim, so this seems to rule out a wiring problem. Its as though the contrast is turned right down. Does the contrast control (on the small control board) actually make any difference when turned?
Andy

I have a k7000, but the contrast is not on the outboard controls. Are there some that do have that?

If all of those controls are on the outboard, it could be a problem on that board itself. I had a bad solder joint on mine and it caused the picture to jump left and right. Maybe he could troubleshoot the outboard while the monitor was on; wiggling the connector where the wires attach is a good starting point.

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #15 on:** October 16, 2007, 10:06:11 am »

I was also under the impression that a video amp was not needed. Hopefully I can get this working without one, but no big deal if I have to order it, I'm in this for the long haul!

Andy, I tried adjusting the contrast knob last night with little success. Of course, I may have the levels screwed up in other areas so it is hard to say what the specific problem is. I will try contrast adjustments again tonight and post results. Does anyone know where I could find a generic monitor tuning guide, like how to start from scratch?

bluevolume: My cabinet is a generic JAMMA cabinet made by Dynamo. The guy I bought it from told me that it was designed to host a multitude of games and be easily serviceable (it has hosted Rapid Fire and MK2, to name a few). 6 pots on the WG board are remotely controlled so you can reach through the CP when its open and do adjustments, and don't have to open up the back of the cabinet. The ones on there are contrast, brightness, vhold, color? and a few others... can't remember right now. They are not extra or anything, just wired to a remote location for ease of access since I guess they are the most used adjustment pots on the monitor.

Good point about checking connections. I'll do that tonight as well.

Thanks guys, you've been very helpful so far!

bluevolume · « **Reply #16 on:** October 16, 2007, 10:31:29 am »

My cabinet and monitor are very similar to yours. On the remote board, I only have alignment/size controls though. That's a nice feature that yours has more -- wish mine had that.

Anyway, definitely try spinning those pots and see if anything changes on the screen. The contrast/brightness mostly. I am almost certain that you don't need a video amp -- I'm running the same video card and have no problems at all.

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #17 on:** October 16, 2007, 06:26:08 pm »

No luck with contrast/brightness. They only amplified/decreased the washed out look to darker or lighter. This may help, when I shut down my PC this is what the signal looked like (attached). Look at the tearing on the left side and general crappy quality. This is when the PC is off and there isn't a live signal coming through. Does this shed any light?

bluevolume · « **Reply #18 on:** October 16, 2007, 11:03:15 pm »

Man, something has to be wrong with that monitor. I would take it back wherever you got it and have them check it out again. I hope that burn-in isn't as bad once there's a good picture on it, that looks pretty extreme.

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2007, 09:17:10 am »

Yeah... A bummer huh. When I bought the cabinet the dude fired up the monitor and it looked really good (some burn-in but thats not a major deal to me), so I can't understand what is going wrong now.

The thing that is suspicious to me is that green screen with the tearing happens when my cpu is off, but still hooked up to the monitor. When the vga cable is unplugged and the monitor is on, the monitor goes completely black. Seems to me that somewhere from the CPU to the monitor the signal is getting corrupted. I'm thinking either the AVGA has a bad chip or something, or the breakout cable was mis-wired... both are unlikely but I can't imagine how the monitor went bad already!

Edit: Taking the monitor back to the seller isn't really an option. I don't own a car and he isn't really a monitor technician anyway. He told me he sends his monitors out for service when they are misbehaving.

What can I do to troubleshoot the breakout cable? I'm thinking that it is my problem here...

CathalDublin · « **Reply #20 on:** October 17, 2007, 05:56:34 pm »

Have you no hamma board you could plug in and try out?

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #21 on:** October 17, 2007, 10:20:33 pm »

Nope, no Jamma boards to try. The cabinet came without one, although that is a good suggestion, maybe I can get a cheap-o one for testing.

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #22 on:** October 20, 2007, 05:20:13 pm »

Ok, so I'm still struggling with this issue. I've tried to narrow down the areas that would be at fault and I'm coming up with the VGA cable, or the AVGA2 VGA output. I picked up a digital multimeter today from Radio Shack with a continuity tester and I'm trying to test the cable ends to see if its wired correctly. This is a cable I got from Ultimarc, pre-wired breakout cable with a molex connector, it's even labeled! Very nice work, but I just want to be able to rule everything out one by one and this should be easy to test.

Only problem is, I can't get the continuity tester to work on the cable!

I tested it on multiple other things like a screwdriver and a PC power cable, all with positive results, but when testing with the VGA breakout I'm only getting the .0L reading. Do these cables have some other way to test continuity? I have about zero electrical background so I'm learning how to use the multimeter as I use it. If it helps, its this model: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174&cp=&parentPage=search

I'm trying to compare to the Ultimarc cable picture

to see if the wires are going to the correct place on the molex. It also looks like my cable is upside down? In the image, the missing pin #9 is on the left side with the wide part of the plug on top. My plug has the missing pin on the left side only when the wide part of the plug is on the bottom. See pic below. Does this mean my cable is faulty? I hope so, that would save me more monitor headaches.

Do you think I'll have to make a new VGA breakout? I wouldn't mind doing that if it is the case.

grantspain · « **Reply #23 on:** October 20, 2007, 06:05:24 pm »

you need to make a new cable

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #24 on:** October 20, 2007, 06:07:28 pm »

grantspain, what are you basing that on... I'd appreciate it if you could be a little more clear.

grantspain · « **Reply #25 on:** October 20, 2007, 06:18:43 pm »

i think you have wired it mirror imaged

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2007, 07:44:17 pm »

Ah that is interesting... I wonder if that accounts for the horrible image quality. Still, how would it get any image at all? I'm sort of confused on that but I'll take your suggestion and give it a try. Thanks for the input.

Not sure though... this cable seems to match up with the diagrams on this page...http://wonkity.com/~wblock/a4000hard/vgapins.html

How can i test continuity? That is the real question I have for testing this cable. Is there another setting on the multimeter?

bluevolume · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2007, 01:40:53 am »

Wiring up a video cable manually can be a frustrating exercise. Its easy to screw up and difficult to test (bad combination). Trying to hold a probe on a single pin while checking various wires is near impossible (unless you're a pro and have the right equipment).

I decided to buy an Ultimarc breakout cable (through Divemaster), and am very glad I did. Having a k7000, it came pre-wired with the connection I needed -- I literally took it out of the package and connected one end to the AVGA and the other to the monitor.

Now that you are mentioning the possibility of a cable problem, that makes perfect sense. Very possible that this is what's causing your monitor insanity.

grantspain · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2007, 06:15:19 am »

thats a very good solution from bluevolume,in relation to the multimeter i tend to use the bleep test for cable continuity as it can be awkward to see the meter and test the cable.
put your meter onto the the bleep test and check it works by shorting the probes then you can test continuity just by listening-bleep=short,nothing=open
maybe you have something as simple as the video ground either shorting to other pins or in the wrong place

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2007, 10:29:30 am »

Well guys, I spent a little time experimenting before reposting. Here is what I've found.

bluevolume, I agree, wiring would be very frustrating. I DO in fact have the Ultimarc breakout cable, and it came attached with a female molex connector, and even had it labeled! Very nice. However I'm suspicious that something is screwy with it since I'm getting an overwhelming amount of blue-green on my screen.

grantspain, my multimeter is a cheap-o version from Radio Shack, it doesn't have anything but the very basics, no bleeps, but it does have continuity test... which I can't get to function with the cable for some reason, so identifying female side to output molex side relations is proving difficult, if not impossible.

So here is what I've done since my last post. I printed off a version of the W-G 7000 series manual and attempted to do the "white balance" procedure, where you turn all of gain or cutoff (can't recall now) CCW and then the other pots to the center, then go about a routine of lightening/darkening the screen with brightness to achieve nice grays and whites. The problem is, I cant get white!

My screen is still saturated with greens after doing the balance, however if I play with the cutoffs and gains, I can get a decent image with red only. (both attached images) The all reds remind me of that old Nintendo Virtual Boy system from the 90's!

I'll continue to test the cable. I'm in contact with Andy and he is giving me advice on what to try. He's extremely helpful!

I'll post when I have more to report. Thanks guys. In the meantime, I'll play my favorites in a very frustrated manner. lol

weasel-like_animal · « **Reply #30 on:** November 14, 2007, 04:50:52 pm »

Well I thought I'd finalize this post, for future problem solvers. I got a new cable from Divemaster, and lo and behold, it works fine.

For some reason the one I got from Ultimarc was faulty.


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