stupid pit bulls

[ChadTower]

http://www.sunchronicle.com/articles/2007/10/10/news/news1.txt

This crap happens way too often in our area.  Very fortunate it didn't turn on any people...

[Jeff AMN]

Just yesterday my co-worker was telling me how sweet her pit bulls are and their brand new puppies. It was all I could do to keep from rolling my eyes. Have you ever noticed that when you ask a pit bull owner what kind of dog they have it goes just like this:

"My dog...(something about their dog)"
"Oh, what kind of dog do you have?"
"He's a pit bull, but he's the sweetest dog ever."
"I'm sure he is..."

Every time they say they own a pit, they IMMEDIATELY follow it up with "he's the sweetest dog ever!" Yeah, well, he may be, but don't ever expect me to bring my kid around your organic time bomb.

[ChadTower]

It's a recurrent theme in my local area... seems like ever 3 months or so somene's pit bull gets loose and goes on a killing spree.  Luckily only about half the time is it people getting attacked.  The other half it has been dogs, turkeys, a pony, and a bike (that had a kid on it but the kid ran off and the dog only attacked the bike for some reason).

[polaris]

Just yesterday my co-worker was telling me how sweet her pit bulls are and their brand new puppies. It was all I could do to keep from rolling my eyes. Have you ever noticed that when you ask a pit bull owner what kind of dog they have it goes just like this:

"My dog...(something about their dog)"
"Oh, what kind of dog do you have?"
"He's a pit bull, but he's the sweetest dog ever."
"I'm sure he is..."

Every time they say they own a pit, they IMMEDIATELY follow it up with "he's the sweetest dog ever!" Yeah, well, he may be, but don't ever expect me to bring my kid around your organic time bomb.

indeed, whenever my daughter goes near a dog i get nervous, the owners are always saying 'oh hes fine dont worry' never found a dog owner who'll say 'watch him mate he'll bite your daughters face off' even though its all so much of a reality that it could.
im sure pitbulls are illegal in this country now(uk) , it would make sense to me to stop them being bred, its not like theyre a species, just something we've created.
my friend has a cross pit bull , bred specifically for pit fighting(not by him he rescued it from that life) and it is a sweet dog, but ill never fully trust him, playing to him could be dangerous thing to others so easily, he bites through 4x2's like its butter.

[grantspain]

i love animals but pit bulls are killers,only bred to kill-they should be shot on sight along with their brain dead owners
my dog is really hard-tossers

[CCM]

i love animals but pit bulls are killers,only bred to kill-they should be shot on sight along with their brain dead owners
my dog is really hard-tossers

That's a little extreme.  My neighbors have a pitt bull which is very friendly.  I've played with the dog on several occasions when they are walking it.  They always keep it on a leash and it has never gotten away from them.

I certainly don't think my neighbors or their dog should be shot.

If you are a responsible owner and the dog was raised correctly, I see no problem with them.

We have 2 Chihuahua's and a Boston Terrier and I've never worried about my neighbors pitt bull.  Hell, my Chihuahua is probably more likely to bite someone, admittedly he wouldn't do much damage, probably wouldn't even break the skin.

[bfauska]

32 stitches in my face from a poodle when I was 2 1/2 years old.

I've met many Pit-bulls, and their close relatives and never seen a well treated/ well raised one do anything I wouldn't expect from a less media-abused dog.  You notice the pit-bull attacks in the news because they put them in the news.  Do you honestly think that every dog attack makes it into the news and not just the ones the press thinks you will sit through another commercial to hear about or flip past a couple more printed ads to read about?  They were bread for fighting so they are damned good at it when the do it, but if they are raised right and treated with the respect any dog should be treated with they are not likely to lash out at a human.  Part of their breeding also has to do with a desire to please their master, handy to get a dog to fight but, also a very nice trait in a well owned dog.  Pit-bulls are not more likely to bit than other breeds, they are just more likely to cause damage when they do.

Getting rid of a breed is treating the symptom not treating the disease. Most of the posters in this topic sound like they have a fair understanding of how to treat dogs, but much of society does not.  Raising and treating dogs properly is the only solution to the number of accidental dog bites each year.

[CCM]

Damn!!  That must have been one hell of a poodle!

[TOK]

I'd never own one because a pet capable of killing me doesn't seem like the smartest thing to have, but the main problem with these dogs is that they appeal to idiots. My wife worked for a vet for almost 10 years, and dealt with a lot of irresponsible Pit Bull owners. There are many other terrier breeds that have similar dispositions and strength to Pit Bulls, but don't get the bad reputation because they don't appeal to the demographic least qualified to own a dog (Rottweilers are second in appeal).

My young daughter had a very scary run-in with an aggressive collie. Somehow, if that dog managed to hurt either of us, I doubt it would have made regional news like a Pit Bull attack always does.

[Jeff AMN]

Well growing up my neighbor across the street owned a pit bull. They raised it responsibly and the dog was really friendly. It never had an issue until one day it just snapped and locked onto my friend's face. It took 120 stitches and plastic surgery to fix him up. The dog cracked his skull, punctured his skull, and about tore his face clean off of his head. It was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen in my life and I'll never forget it. The dog didn't even growl or make any inidication that it was poised to attack. We were just out front with the dog running around and it walked over and clamped down on his head and locked on. We had to beat the dog half to death to get it to release.

I'll never trust a pit bull. I don't care how sweet natured it seems to be, I know how they can just snap and attempt to kill.

[shmokes]

CCM, not all poodles are toy poodles.  A normal poodle stands taller than your average pit bull, I'd wager.

There's truth to both sides.  pit bulls are more dangerous than your average breed, but a german shepherd is a lot more dangerous than a golden retriever. And the media just LOVES pit bulls.  Why do you suppose that when you ask someone what kind of dog they have, they never say, "A rottweiler, but he's the sweetest dog ever," when rottweilers turn on their masters and attack humans more than pit bulls? 

The pit bull thing is both true and overblown.  A pit bull, minus affirmative maltreatment is perfectly safe.  He may turn on you, but the likelihood is so low as to be negligible. 

For what it's worth, Jeff, my family's dalmatian did the same thing to a little seven-year-old girl we babysat.   

[shmokes]

Dogs are dumb and ---smurfing--- obnoxious anyway.  Get a cat.

[Jeff AMN]

Dalmatians actually bite a lot too. They're too inbred, much like pits. Rottweilers are actually probably the most dangerous breed because one bite from them and you're in trouble. When I was in Chile they were debating a national ban on the breed because they are notorious baby killers.

All breeds of dogs bite if they're provoked, but Rotts and Pits are far more capable of killing than other breeds. I just wouldn't want my kids around such a capable animal.

[CCM]

CCM, not all poodles are toy poodles.  A normal poodle stands taller than your average pit bull, I'd wager.

 

Good point!  I always forget about those big goofy-looking poodles and always just think of the little goofy-looking poodles.

[polaris]

Dogs are dumb and ---smurfing--- obnoxious anyway.  Get a cat.

dogs are fascists too, never seen a police cat.

[bfauska]

It was a sissy little poodle, but I was a chubby little toddler with easy to tear-open cheeks.

The demographic of owners comment was valid too, it is so difficult to accurately place responsibility for any dog attack because of all the variables, it also makes it tough to gather any worthwhile statistics.  Every situation has it's own set of parameters.  I just don't think it is right to make a blanket statement that any one particular breed is outright evil or dumb.  Unless of course you just don't like any dogs, you old cat-lady.

[Samstag]

Rabbits are where it's at these days.

Mine will only bite your face off if you're asking for it.  So don't mess with his favorite blanket if you know what's good for you.

[Jeff AMN]

Rabbits are where it's at these days.

Mine will only bite your face off if you're asking for it.  So don't mess with his favorite blanket if you know what's good for you.

Follow. But. Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived. Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

[grantspain]

sorry if i sounded a bit extreme but pit bulls in the u.k are only owned for 2 purposes,to fight other dogs or to make their drug taking thug owners look really tough whilst walking down the street
dogs behave how the owner trains them and 9 times outta 10 a pitbull will be trained to aggressive
there was a recent killing by a pitbull of a 3 year old,the owner was a typical scum shite-he needs to put on a murder charge
if i had a rifle i would without question shoot one on sight

[polaris]

if i had a rifle i would without question shoot one on sight

thats definitely a less extreme view.

i dunno bf , the thing is pit bulls have been bred for a reason, killing other dogs, and dogs see humans as dogs really, their pack leader. the fact that they are bred for a purpose means the aggressive traits have been looked for and bred in from other dogs. its not possible to really say as you said ,but the fact that they are killing machines does have an influence on their nature. i love all animals truly so am not against dogs, but i would criticize someone for owning a husky as a pet, its a working dog bred for a reason,  i feel its just as innapropriate to own one and not work it, as it is to have a killing machine as a pet.

[ChadTower]

I always hear "it's not the dogs, it's the owners" as a rationalization for having pit bulls, but the whole "don't ban pit bulls, ban bad owners" argument is moot when you note that you cannot ban owners without banning pit bulls. 

I'd ban other dogs from stupid owners, but basically, there are only a couple of breeds that when owned stupidly have the ability to kill people.  Pets that can kill are a stupid thing to have, and sadly, they rarely kill the stupid owner.  It's always some random person who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[bfauska]

You may not be able to ban stupid people from having the dogs, but you could hold them more accountable for the harm a poorly raised dog causes.

[BobA]

if i had a rifle i would without question shoot one on sight

Was that the pit bull or the typical scum shite that deserves shooting on sight?

[ChadTower]

You may not be able to ban stupid people from having the dogs, but you could hold them more accountable for the harm a poorly raised dog causes.

I would like to see that happen.  Last year here a pit bull that was leashed attacked a woman walking down the street and nearly ripped her arm off, tearing half the flesh off her ribcage.  The owner was hit with a $300 fine.  The woman will have years of surgeries and physical therapy and will never fully recover.  The only reason she survived is that some guy stopped his car and beat the dog with a bat.

I love hearing people say "I keep my pit bull on a leash!"  Like anyone short of the WWE champion could control an enraged pitbull on a leash.

[BobA]

There is always civil court to make the owner more accountable.  Maybe a huge law suit is required to help pay for the injuries caused by stupid people with uncontrolled dogs.

[polaris]

its all well and good saying about legal accountability , but it does nothing to repair the damage done in the first place. all well and good suing someone , but it wont affect them if they cant afford to pay the damages you sue them for.
im sure any parent who lost a child in such a manner would not feel compensated

[ChadTower]

A huge lawsuit is only useful when the defendant has something worth taking.  In this area it always seems to be some unemployed loser about to be kicked out of a hole in the wall apartment that is the dog owner.

Besides, I'd rather not lose my ribcage to begin with...

[FrizzleFried]

Fact:  There are more Golden Retriever bites reported each year than Pit Bull bites,  they aren't as dramatic so they don't get news coverage...

...I don't own a Bull Terrier nor am I interested in owning one but to label the entire breed as "evil" is ludicrous.  It's the owners who are the asshats.
 

[ChadTower]

Fact:  There are more Golden Retriever bites reported each year than Pit Bull bites,  they aren't as dramatic so they don't get news coverage...

So?  How many of the Golden Retriever injuries are permanent and debilitating?  We're not talking about bites.  We're talking about attacks.  How many golden retrievers are there in comparison?  Find a per animal type stat and it will mean something.  What % of pit bulls attack vs what % of golden retrievers?

...I don't own a Bull Terrier nor am I interested in owning one but to label the entire breed as "evil" is ludicrous.  It's the owners who are the asshats.

Yes, the owners are asshats.  Now solve the problem by means other than banning the dogs.

[grantspain]

Fact:  There are more Golden Retriever bites reported each year than Pit Bull bites,  they aren't as dramatic so they don't get news coverage...

...I don't own a Bull Terrier nor am I interested in owning one but to label the entire breed as "evil" is ludicrous.  It's the owners who are the asshats.
 

i would call the owners wankers as it gets round your censor(sorry peale),but pitbull owners are wankers full stop(TOSSERS/TWATS/---punks---/DIVS/CHAVY'S/)or any other bad word i can think of

[boykster]

Fact:  There are more Golden Retriever bites reported each year than Pit Bull bites,  they aren't as dramatic so they don't get news coverage...

...I don't own a Bull Terrier nor am I interested in owning one but to label the entire breed as "evil" is ludicrous.  It's the owners who are the asshats.
 

Fact: there are a hell of a lot more golden's than there are pit bulls, so I would bet that as a % of dog bite/attack reports, the pit bull owns a larger % based on total population.

I do agree however that it is the owners who are the asshats, and not the dogs.  Especially when it comes to a dog breed like pit bulls; they ARE aggressive by nature.

Dogs are dumb and ---smurfing--- obnoxious anyway.  Get a cat.

Don't even get me started on cats.....

[bfauska]

My suggestion of stiffer penalties was not as a re-reimbursement for the attacked or family's thereof.  The suggestion was to set a precedent that the asshat dog owners of the future would hopefully pay attention to.  Similar to punishment for any crime, while some would argue that the idea is rehabilitation,  many of the people who would commit a crime in the first place are deterred by the thought of serving jail time.

[shmokes]

Rabbits are where it's at these days.

Mine will only bite your face off if you're asking for it.  So don't mess with his favorite blanket if you know what's good for you.

My wife's grandpa is missing half of one of his fingers, which he lost while reaching for a rabbit that he had chased into a hole in the ground.   

[vorghagen]

Don't even get me started on cats.....

So, boykster, every considered getting a pet cat? I hear they're lovely to have around...

[shmokes]

I think that a fairly reasonable approach would be to require liability insurance to own any animal designated as a "dangerous animal" (maybe with a component for automatically designating other animals as "dangerous" once they've attacked/bitten someone).  Then you could impose strict liability on owners of "dangerous" animals, so if their dog attacked someone there would be no question of whether the dog was provoked, or whether the owner was really great, but this was just a freak accident.  The liability would be automatic.  This would then need to be enforced with criminal penalties of fines and jail time if a person's dangerous animal attacks and the person isn't insured.  It would also make it so that people who are attacked will generally not be left with no way to recover damages simply because the dog's owner was an unemployed piece of white trash.

It seems like this would solve most of the problems.  White trash people really are commonly attracted to pit bulls specifically for that dog's violent nature, and they will breed aggression into the dogs.  Much of this would stop, though, and demand for dogs like this would go down.  It goes without saying that insurance for a rottweiler or pit bull would be more expensive than for another breed known for aggression like cocker spaniels, because the payout for the damage done by a pit bull is so much greater.  Fewer people who can't responsibly train and care for a dog would get a pit bull because it just wouldn't be worth the cost.  And it goes without saying that insurance companies would now have a lot of say in what dog you could buy.  An owner whose dogs have bitten in the past would probably become uninsurable and could therefore only own pets not designated as dangerous, without facing stiff criminal penalties.  Or maybe insurance companies would require significant investments in professional obedience training and things of that nature.

Anyway, it seems like this would be a better solution than an outright ban.  Aggression can be deliberately bred into any type of dog.  If people can't have pit bulls and rottweilers, they'll simply corrupt some other breed.


edit: really strange typo.

[tommy]

Don't drag all pitbulls in the same sentence as ones who kill other dogs and bite people or love to fight other dogs. Blame the owner on how the dog turns out and behaves not the breed. I had a stray mutt that had a bad life and bit my pitbull and he didn't do a thing back to the dog after he was bit. My dog didn't have it in him to bite back after he grew up with me as his owner.

My dog was trained right and is as smart a dog as you'll ever find and would never go after anyone and try to cause them harm.

[shmokes]

Lulling you into this false sense of security is just a component of their diabolical nature, Tommy.   

[tommy]

If all pitbulls are man-eating dogs then all black people love to rob and steal. It's a silly thing to think let alone post on a forum.

[TOK]

If all pitbulls are man-eating dogs then all black people love to rob and steal. It's a silly thing to think let alone post on a forum.

You are definitely not qualified to own a pit bull.

[tommy]

What's that supposed to mean?

[bfauska]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, now I have to rethink my stance on this.  I seem to largely agree with Tommy and that can't be right. 

Follow. But. Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived. Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

I am off to see Spamalot later tonight, I hope I make it out alive if they have a live evil rabbit.

[tommy]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, now I have to rethink my stance on this.  I seem to largely agree with Tommy and that can't be right. 

Oh it's right buddy, you better believe it. 

If some of you don't get the message... i say what i feel and say what i think, it may not be the best analogy but you get the idea.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

dogs are fascists too, never seen a police cat.

YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT!!   

[danny_galaga]

on my postal round there are quite a few agro dogs. most of them just enjoy something to do, but a few seem genuinely viscious. the other day the gate was wide open at a place with a viscious dog and the *&!#%$# came right at me- and then stopped where the gate would be and kept barking! ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?---...

[ChadTower]

It seems like this would solve most of the problems. 

It wouldn't solve a thing.  The pit bulls that attack are unlicensed, often loose, living in completely unsuitable locations.  How would a law requiring anything solve that when the owners don't follow the existing laws?

tommy, answer this question:

How do you ban bad owners?

[polaris]

It seems like this would solve most of the problems. 

It wouldn't solve a thing.  The pit bulls that attack are unlicensed, often loose, living in completely unsuitable locations.  How would a law requiring anything solve that when the owners don't follow the existing laws?

tommy, answer this question:

How do you ban bad owners?

didnt you get the message chad, you put them in jail with all the black people tommy mentioned
nice reference btw tom

[ChadTower]

I guess so.  This is one of those "crimes" I'd really like to see preempted rather than punished after the fact.  You only have to witness one bad dog attack to understand why.  I'm usually the first person to stand up for personal freedoms and accountability but this is a case where that just doesn't work.

[Jeff AMN]

Here's my dog, by the way. We adopted him from a local shelter (he had been seriously abused).



"I've never bit anybody, but if they shove one more stupid thing in my mouth for another photo op...I just might."

[ChadTower]

When I was a kid my cousin adopted a pair of dogs much like that one... they were only a few months old and had already been abused so freakin' badly that they'd go all fetal and whine loudly if anyone even went near them.  They did eventually live a happy life but neither of them ever really got over the "if he raises is hand too fast I'm going to get hurt" view of the world.

[mountain]

If all pitbulls are man-eating dogs then all black people love to rob and steal. It's a silly thing to think let alone post on a forum.

HUH?!? 

How about this one: Remember when the Ford Explorer had the recall on the tires because they were failing and causing accidents that killed a “few” people? Odds are I wouldn’t have had a fatal accident, but I sure didn’t think twice about replacing them for a more reliable tire. Not worth the risk.

I let my kids (13 and 10) play with firecrackers on the Fourth of July, (with supervision) knowing that there is a remote chance they could get hurt. I would never do the same with a stick of dynamite though.

Pit Bulls should be illegal to own, and breed. Who would this hurt anyway?

[tommy]

You can take any dog and leave it outside with no food or water for days and abuse the dog and it will react the same as any pit bull.

Why should i have to suffer when you guys want to outlaw these dogs when I'm responsible with the breed and understand how to treat them and train them so they can act like any other fun loving dog you see everyday?  These dogs are the smartest dogs I've ever been around when you treat them well.

I think the main reason dogs act badly is when they are left outside for long periods of time with nothing to do and they forget how to interact with anything that comes near it.

[bfauska]

If all pitbulls are man-eating dogs then all black people love to rob and steal. It's a silly thing to think let alone post on a forum.

HUH?!? 

How about this one: Remember when the Ford Explorer had the recall on the tires because they were failing and causing accidents that killed a “few” people? Odds are I wouldn’t have had a fatal accident, but I sure didn’t think twice about replacing them for a more reliable tire. Not worth the risk.

I let my kids (13 and 10) play with firecrackers on the Fourth of July, (with supervision) knowing that there is a remote chance they could get hurt. I would never do the same with a stick of dynamite though.

Pit Bulls should be illegal to own, and breed. Who would this hurt anyway?

Should we make dynamite (or other high-explosives) completely un-available and dispose of every piece left, or continue allowing people who know how to use it responsibly to have access to it and use it when appropriate?

I do see the similarity, between the dynamite/firecracker analogy to the dog debate, but I have a strong opinion against rules that treat symptoms instead of causes.

[Jeff AMN]

You can take any dog and leave it outside with no food or water for days and abuse the dog and it will react the same as any pit bull.

Why should i have to suffer when you guys want to outlaw these dogs when I'm responsible with the breed and understand how to treat them and train them so they can act like any other fun loving dog you see everyday?  These dogs are the smartest dogs I've ever been around when you treat them well.

I think the main reason dogs act badly is when they are left outside for long periods of time with nothing to do and they forget how to interact with anything that comes near it.

I don't buy it. The same dog that about ripped my friend's face off was a pampered, well-trained, indoor dog. The thing just snapped, plain and simple.

[shmokes]

The dynamite thing is kind of funny, cos it just so happens that dynamite is regulated in a way similar to what I laid out above.  People can use it, but it has strict liability.  It doesn't matter if you know, or should have known that it was going to cause some crazy ass damage.

And Chad, the difference is the criminal penalties.  Owning a pitbull without liability insurance would be illegal.  People would get away with it all the time, but when people started doing six months in jail after their pitbull bit someone, you can bet they'd never own another pitbull again.  And neither would their friends, I'd wager.  And the people who did have them would be damned careful about keeping them out of trouble.  It would have some effect.  What is the alternative?  Banning all pitbulls?  Perspective!  Start with alcohol.  It causes a helluva lot more violent deaths than pit bulls do.  More per capita too, I'd wager.  The vast majority of pit bulls are just well behaved dogs.  Tommy's right about them being smart (though they've got nothing on border collies).  It just don't make sense to ban pit bulls outright because you can't keep yourself from watching the 10:00 news.  It is not the crisis that your local news station would like you to think it is.

[tommy]

You can take any dog and leave it outside with no food or water for days and abuse the dog and it will react the same as any pit bull.

Why should i have to suffer when you guys want to outlaw these dogs when I'm responsible with the breed and understand how to treat them and train them so they can act like any other fun loving dog you see everyday?  These dogs are the smartest dogs I've ever been around when you treat them well.

I think the main reason dogs act badly is when they are left outside for long periods of time with nothing to do and they forget how to interact with anything that comes near it.

I don't buy it. The same dog that about ripped my friend's face off was a pampered, well-trained, indoor dog. The thing just snapped, plain and simple.

People act crazy and kill all the time.

We don't put all people in jail when a few get out of control. You need to act accordingly on a case by case basis just like anything else.

[mountain]

Acting accordingly after the Pit Bull nearly rips off the face of small child doesn't seam to be the answer. You cannot prevent an animal like that from attacking. All you can do is minimize the probability. Is it really worth it?

I find it hard to believe that one would suffer from not being able to have a Pit Bull. I think a person who had a Pit Bulls powerful jaws locked on their head or neck suffered a bit more.

[ChadTower]

And Chad, the difference is the criminal penalties.  Owning a pitbull without liability insurance would be illegal.  People would get away with it all the time, but when people started doing six months in jail after their pitbull bit someone, you can bet they'd never own another pitbull again.

Laws only apply to people who follow laws.  I'm not interested in punishing the violators.  I'm interested in preventing the attacks.

tommy, show me an instance of a dog like shown above going into such a rage, unprovoked, that it mauls a pony to death.  That happened here two years ago.  Sure, any abused dog is going to be a problem, but there are only two or three that can kill with ease.

[ahofle]

Why should i have to suffer when you guys want to outlaw these dogs

Suffer?  Does your pitbull provide you with any more dog ownership satisfaction than any other breed?  I just don't understand why anyone would oppose the stoppage of pitbull breeding. 

[tommy]

You people don't have the right to decide what's right for other people. If you don't want a pit bull then don't have one, that's the only choice you can make.

There are irresponsible people in this world and there is little to nothing you can do about it. Some people let their dog get to a point that it becomes a danger to the public. Some people own guns and play around with them and end up shooting them self in the foot. Some people beat their kids and they end up growing up with low self esteem and are insecure their whole life.

I don't know what to tell you, all i can say is that we can't take only the bad examples of things and think that's the only way it is.

[ChadTower]

You people don't have the right to decide what's right for other people. If you don't want a pit bull then don't have one, that's the only choice you can make.

And you have the right to decide it is right to put your neighbors at risk? 

Stop comparing pit bulls to guns.  Guns don't run away and shoot people on their own. 

[tommy]

You have no more need to worry about my dog then you do a well behaved poodle. Even so, my dog is always in the house except when he has to go out, he is even supervised when he does his deed and then he's back inside. There is no time when he is not watched by me.

I would do this if he was any kind of dog because dogs have no reason to be wandering around on their own without a responsible person nearby, just like you would do with a child.

[mountain]

When a Pit Bull snaps, it can and will break free from its owner, jump a fence, etc. I'm not saying that the authorities should come to your house and destroy your dog. I would like to see the following:

• Have a registration for existing owners so they can be tracked
• Destroy any Pit Bull where the history is unknown
• Have current owners sign a contract stating they understand the law (state laws vary, Ohio law states that Pit Bulls must be contained indoors or in a covered cage when outside, as well as some type of liability insurance I believe) and that a pre-determined penalty (hopefully severe) will be incurred if the dog creates any type of injury to a human or other animal
• Ban Pit Bulls
  
  Eventually the breed would go away.
  
  EDIT - spelling
  
  

[tommy]

I'd rather people who are ignorant and have a closed mind go away.

[bfauska]

Just out of curiosity, how often do you think "pit bull" attacks are actually the act of verifiable Pit Bulls.

How long does it take you to [urlhttp://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html]find the Pit Bull in this quiz?[/url]  Now, how many people do you think accurately identify the dog that bit them?  Or even with the owners input if the dog is a mixed breed or rescue from a shelter how often do you think the owner accurately knows the dog is a Pit Bull?

[polaris]

dunno,
my daughters mothers family have jack russels and i didnt like them being around her when she was little, but at no point could those dogs have got her whole ---smurfing--- head in their mouths unlike a pit bull, which lets not forget is specifically bred to kill other dogs

[ChadTower]

"I keep my pit bulls in the house."

Yeah, that sounds like a good healthy life for a large active dog.

And BTW, even a small dog can get through a screen when it's angry.  A couple of years ago, during trick or treating, a small terrier tore through the storm door screen on one house and jumped right on my son.  Ripped his costume clear off and tore his shirt.  I had to kick the thing hard to get it off.  That was a 15lb dog.  Do you really think a screen would hold a pit bull?

Every time I have ever seen a person bit by a dog it was preceded by the owner saying exactly what tommy just said.  "My dog doesn't bite / my dog is perfectly safe / there is no need to worry about my dog."  I've found the only time people ever say that is when they're actually unsure about it.  People who are sure don't feel the need to reassure themselves.

[tommy]

Nothing is going to change some of our minds about this breed.

For those of you who are following this thread i ask who are you going to believe, a bunch of people who do not own the dog and are forming an opinion from a few horror stories, or a guy who owns the dog and really knows how they act on a day to day basis. It's a pretty obvious answer there.


Many of you are in no position to even be commenting on this breed with the little to no first hand info you have on these dogs. All you can say is, i knew a friend or, i heard a story when....

There are no facts involved in your opinions at all, all you know is something bit someone somewhere and you have no facts or details about it, oh and, someone mentioned pit bull at the time. 

[ChadTower]

I have first hand experience with pit bulls.  I've seen what they can do when enraged.  If anything, the media doesn't get that across enough.

[tommy]

I'll try to say this for the last time and maybe this will make some sense to you now.

Crazy man, does crazy things.

Good man, does good things.

Crazy dog, does crazy things.

Good dog, does good things.


It's that simple.


I guess me having my pit bull for over 8 years with not one time where he bit me or anyone else, or showed aggression towards anyone is what, luck? How do you explain this? I'm not dead and i have not been mauled and will never be.

Either my dog training worked or i have the only dog sent from heaven that is a safe dog.

[ChadTower]

And yet there are many instance of good pit bull snaps for "no visible reason".  Sure, it happens with other dogs, but other dogs don't kill people when it happens.  So are all of those owners lying when they say they treated the dog well and they don't understand why the dog went nuts one day?

I would not allow your dog around my kids or my house no matter what its history.

[tommy]

And yet there are many instance of good pit bull snaps for "no visible reason". 

The dog was not trained right or at all. Most people don't know how to train a dog. Training a dog is not getting him to give you his paw and sit, so now that means he has been trained? Nope.  Trust me, if these dogs were trained they would not be acting this way.

You should invest some time in the show "The Dog Whisperer" and you will learn alot. Then come back and talk to me.

[lokki]

Fact:  There are more Golden Retriever bites reported each year than Pit Bull bites,  they aren't as dramatic so they don't get news coverage...

So?  How many of the Golden Retriever injuries are permanent and debilitating?  We're not talking about bites.  We're talking about attacks.  How many golden retrievers are there in comparison?  Find a per animal type stat and it will mean something.  What % of pit bulls attack vs what % of golden retrievers?

...I don't own a Bull Terrier nor am I interested in owning one but to label the entire breed as "evil" is ludicrous.  It's the owners who are the asshats.

Most Severe Bites By Breed. (Chow Chow and Golden Retriever are at the top)

http://www.dapbt.org/bite_statistics_study.htm

But to be fair
Pit bulls take the lead on Fatalities.

http://enhs.umn.edu/6120/bites/dogbitefatal.html

[ChadTower]

The dog was not trained right or at all. Most people don't know how to train a dog. Training a dog is not getting him to give you his paw and sit, so now that means he has been trained? Nope.  Trust me, if these dogs were trained they would not be acting this way.

You should invest some time in the show "The Dog Whisperer" and you will learn alot. Then come back and talk to me.

When I was a kid my family bred and trained hunting dogs.  Duck tollers.  There is a breed/type that is universally credited as having been developed by my great grandfather and we were still breeding and training them when I was a kid.  I have a lot of experience training dogs.  Dozens of them.

I agree that most dogs are very poorly trained.  That is not usually the issue when a normally docile dog snaps viciously for no reason.  That's just the dog having a mind of its own that we don't have insight into.  A single bite is bad training.  A sustained attack, which is usually the case with pit bulls, is the dog being independent and proper training isn't going to prevent that.  It reduces the risk but you cannot eliminate the nature of a breed.

lokki, you know why pit bulls aren't on that list?  They don't bite.  They attack.  There is a difference.  A bite is like a punch... an attack is beating the piss out of someone.

[tommy]

You can prevent attacks from even getting into the dogs mind. I trained my dog since he was 6 weeks old, it's not in his nature anymore.

A junkie would reach for a needle out of habit or from that's all he knows. Would you do that if you never had the chance to try it? Same difference. You wouldn't know or care what it's all about if you never had the chance. Same thing with dogs and attacking. It was stopped from day one and it is no longer a part of his brain.

I had my dog around an aggressive Shepard, the Shepard was not trained well and he was all up in my dogs face growling and just way too close it would seem to be in a pits face, but my dog would not do a thing, nothing wrong was going on in his mind to make him act any differently.

Trust me man, you think i wold have this dog in my house if i was not sure about him.

[shardian]

My neighbor has a Pitt Bull...well it appears he has two now. Anyways, it is close to a year old, and it is a very sweet dog. It plays with their little boy and is super gentle with him, even though the kid is pretty much beating the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- out of the dog. I can't help but feel uneasy around that dog, because you never know what will set it off. There is no leash law in my area, and the dog just hangs around the block.

I understand the fact that any dog can snap, but there are two things that make Pitt Bulls a special case.
1. A normal breed of dog usually is set of for a reason. Pitts can just go.
2. When a normal dog snaps, odds are you can defend yourself, or get out with minor injuries. When a pit snaps, you are almost guaranteed to be severely injured - maybe even killed.

Needless to say, I like the people, but will be glad when they move and take their "nice" dog out of my neighborhood and far away from my little girl in about a year. If a loose Pit bull - or any dog for that matter - ever harmed my kid and I happened to know whose dog it was, that person is gonna feel the pain ten fold.

[lokki]

lokki, you know why pit bulls aren't on that list?  They don't bite.  They attack.  There is a difference.  A bite is like a punch... an attack is beating the piss out of someone.

Not sure I agree, I agree more with the theory that when they do attack they are very good at it.

I would more worried about  being bitten by a Rottweiler (more likely) than being killed by a Pit Bull (less likely to happen).

[ChadTower]

Rottweilers definitely have a worse record but they can stop themselves.  They have a middle ground - a bite and back off - that the pit bull just doesn't have.  When a pit bull goes it goes all out - you have to injure or kill it to stop it.

Man, I don't know how I'd handle a loose pit bull around the block.  I feel for you on that one.  I'd probably be harrassing selectmen to enact at least a leash/enclosure law on dangerous breeds, and if there is no dangerous breed distinction, I'd be lobbying for that too.

tommy, I trust that you believe what you say.  I would never trust that the dog actually is as safe as you believe.  No one wants to believe their dog can harm someone.  Every animal, people included, have a basic nature.  You can train that animal to suppress certain parts of it but it is never truly gone.  Any competent trainer would tell you this straight out - don't ever expect training to fully eliminate the nature of the beast.  It just happens that part of the basic nature of a pit bull is extreme violence.  Not all of it but it is there and it will always be there no matter how well you train the dog.

[ahofle]

Instinct cannot be 'untrained' in one animal's lifetime. 
You may well have a well-trained pit bull that will never snap, but using your own logic how can that possibly translate into all other pit bulls not being dangerous?  You're telling everyone not to make blanket statements about pit bulls, and then use your one example to make a blanket statement that they are not dangerous dogs.

[ChadTower]

The thing that scares most people about pit bulls is the random nature of how they snap - you don't know why it happens.  They don't attack their owners or people they are familiar with (most of the time).  It will happen when you're walking down the street and some person passes by... the dog will just go off and start mauling the person.  Maybe the person has the scent of another dog on him, maybe the person is giving off a confusing scent himself, but you just don't know why it happens. 

[shardian]

Man, I don't know how I'd handle a loose pit bull around the block.  I feel for you on that one.  I'd probably be harrassing selectmen to enact at least a leash/enclosure law on dangerous breeds, and if there is no dangerous breed distinction, I'd be lobbying for that too.

I live in a subdivision with a homeowners association. A few of us have discussed the loose dogs with the President, and it basically comes down to this: Since a leash ordinance was not in the original Association rules, it will be near impossible to add it because 75% of the homeowners would have to show up and vote on it. We barely get 20-25 people to show up for the annual meeting to vote and set fees.

And yeah, the guy is like most Pit Bull owners. he just doesn't fathom why people would be uncomfortable with a Pit bull running around unchecked.

Side story, we did have one dog in the neighborhood that was territorial and aggressive to passersby. He was a mix breed, but I could see some rott in him.  He almost attacked me on the way to the mailbox when we first moved there. I brought this up to the owner one day hoping he would get the hint that an aggressive dog should be on a leash. His response: "eh, he's a good dog once you get to know him. Just call him by name sternly when he growls and approaches." What a ---smurfing--- tard ass. Does he not realize that if the wrong person walks by and smells a lawsuit, they will sue his ass after getting attacked? Anyways, I did eventually earn the dogs trust and even got the point he'd walk up wagging his tail and let me pet him. Still, he bit some lady one day that didn't know how to respect his turf. As the president of the HOA said, he just "disappeared" one day after that.

[ChadTower]

The homeowners' association would be superseded by town law, yes?  I wouldn't even bother with the group - people in those groups are usually extremely petty and care more about flowerbeds and noise than safety.

[shmokes]

Chad.  10:00 news.  Stop.  Think about what you're saying.  Do you really think that a pit bull never just bites someone and leaves it at that?  You really think that every time a pit bull goes aggressive on someone, one or the other is gonna die?  They are a relatively dangerous breed of dog.  But they aren't relatively dangerous.  What I mean, is that lightning poses a FAR greater threat to your safety, but you don't lay awake nights thinking about it.  So the occasional pit bull goes off the deep end.  It's rare.  The vast majority are perfectly fine.  It's not sensible regulation. It's not sensible to restrict freedoms further than necessary.  Pit bull attacks just aren't nearly common enough to warrant such a harsh reaction.

Tommy's gun analogy is really more apt than you give him credit for.  Sure, anybody can go nuts and violent, but not all of those people KILL when they do.  Just the people with guns.  Make it so there aren't any more people with guns, and there will still be attacks, but far fewer fatal attacks.

[shmokes]

Also . . . I can't follow your reasoning that the laws I described would have no deterrent effect.  You can't tell me that the prospect of going to jail does not decrease the number of armed robberies.  I will buy that there will always be people who cannot be deterred in any way (like people who still murder even with the prospect of life in prison or death penalty), but short of the sociopaths, surely it would have a deterrent effect.  Of course it would.

[shardian]

The homeowners' association would be superseded by town law, yes?  I wouldn't even bother with the group - people in those groups are usually extremely petty and care more about flowerbeds and noise than safety.

Our subdivision isn't in city limits.

[Tiger-Heli]

Clouseau: Does your dog bite?
Hotel Clerk: No.
Clouseau: [bowing down to pet the dog] Nice doggie.
[Dog barks and bites Clouseau in the hand]
Clouseau: I thought you said your dog did not bite!
Hotel Clerk: That is not my dog.

On-Topic - A friend of mine's brother had a pit bull.  Dog would wag it's tail and growl at me at the same time (not a playful growl), never trusted them.

[tommy]

Clouseau: Does your dog bite?
Hotel Clerk: No.
Clouseau: [bowing down to pet the dog] Nice doggie.
[Dog barks and bites Clouseau in the hand]
Clouseau: I thought you said your dog did not bite!
Hotel Clerk: That is not my dog.

On-Topic - A friend of mine's brother had a pit bull.  Dog would wag it's tail and growl at me at the same time (not a playful growl), never trusted them.

Thanks for clearing that up for us. I guess we need to shoot, kill, do away with, ban, drown, put away anything that has a possibility to go wrong in our lives, no matter how good it has a possibility to be, even love and friendship.

[FrizzleFried]

A tiny little Palmeranian killed a baby back in 2000...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/

LETS BAN PALMS!!

Asinine to even suggest it.

Anyone who does get a +1 on the ---meecrob--- scale from me...

[BobA]

More people kill people then all dogs combined. 

[The 80s Man]

Pit Bulls are the number one choice of dog by most low-life Thug looser Wannabes.

and of course there are some good people who own them but they are few and hard to find.