Police pursuit ends deadly

[ahofle]

Did any of you see this? 

http://www.officer.com/videonetwork/index.jsp?showid=378811

The suspect was definitely an idiot, but I wonder if this wasn't a bit excessive for an eluded traffic stop.  Will be interesting to find out what happens to the officer that jumped up on the hood.

[AtomSmasher]

Do you have details of what happened or just this video?  Did the driver have a gun he was pointing at the cops that we couldn't see?  Is the cop under investigation for his actions or do you just think he should be from the little we see in the video?  And why was this posted in EE and not PnR?

[ahofle]

Well it's not about religion or politics specifically (and I don't have access there). 
I'm a bit confused on what actually happened (the driver was definitely not armed from anything I've read though).  I've read reports that say the suspect tried to run over the officer and he 'ended up on the hood', but to me it looks like he jumped on.
Here's one article:
http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pursuit/articles/1348970/

Another article which says the officer jumped on:
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/14012046/detail.html?subid=10101081

[AtomSmasher]

I've read reports that say the suspect tried to run over the officer and he 'ended up on the hood', but to me it looks like he jumped on.
Here's one article:
http://www.policeone.com/suspect-pursuit/articles/1348970/

Another article which says the officer jumped on:
http://www.newsnet5.com/news/14012046/detail.html?subid=10101081

To me it looked like the car was rolling forward at the cop when he jumped on the hood, the cop then pointed the gun at the driver and said don't move, but the driver didn't stop the car, so the cop opened fire.

[one2three]

Moral of the story; don't --- smurfing --- run from the cops!

Wish more pursuits would end this way.



edit: spelling and punct.

[Apollo]

Moral of the story; don't --- smurfing --- run from the cops!

Wish more pursuits would end this way. :applaud

You're an idiot

[missioncontrol]

Moral of the story; don't --- smurfing --- run from the cops!

Wish more pursuits would end this way. :applaud

You're an idiot

guess I'm an idiot too... Because the guy got what was coming.

[FrizzleFried]

That makes three of us.  If you run from the cops you get what you get...

...and I just watched the video 3 times... the officer jumps on the hood,  tells the suspect to stop...as soon as the asshat starts to drive again he pops him...bravo!  One less piece of crap to have to worry about.

[one2three]

You're an idiot

That's beside the point.   


Fact of the matter is that too many innocent lives are ended or put in harms way because some low life decides they don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

[jbox]

When a cop jumps on your car it's game over, one way or another.

That said WTF is up with all the ramming? Like three different cops all tried to ram him, and then on the radio they're all screaming "he tried to ram me, he tried to ram me" when the dude appears to be trying to do his best road-runner impersonation. Regardless of the facts of the case, it does make it seem a little suss...

[Apollo]

Since when did the sentence for failing to stop become death, you have some strange ideas over there, no wonder the rest of the world thinks your country is going to the dogs.
That video looks exactly like something that might happen in a facist nation which is where you guys are heading if you don't wake up.
The cop put himself in danger by jumping on the car, he shouldn't then be able to murder someone just because they are driving away.
The only situation in which the cop should have shot the driver is if the driver had a deadly weapon of some sort and was threatening to use it (and no the car should not be considered a weapon because the cops put themselves in danger, the driver was driving away from the cops).

[Apollo]

heh maybe this should be moved to pnr now

[FrizzleFried]

Since when did the sentence for failing to stop become death, you have some strange ideas over there, no wonder the rest of the world thinks your country is going to the dogs.
That video looks exactly like something that might happen in a facist nation which is where you guys are heading if you don't wake up.
The cop put himself in danger by jumping on the car, he shouldn't then be able to murder someone just because they are driving away.
The only situation in which the cop should have shot the driver is if the driver had a deadly weapon of some sort and was threatening to use it (and no the car should not be considered a weapon because the cops put themselves in danger, the driver was driving away from the cops).

BS...the driver puts innocent lives at risk by running.  I personally knew a girl who was hit by a car running from the police and she died at the scene.

If you run from the cops you deserve what you get...even if that is a lead bullet.

EDIT: Removed the rest...why lower myself to his level...

[Apollo]

Do the cops put innocent lives at risk by chasing people? How much blame lies with the cops when an innocent bystander is killed during a police chase?
Running from the cops = death? Interesting sort of system you have there Frizzle. What's next? Maybe people should be killed for fighting with cops even if unarmed or maybe people should be killed by the cops if the cops think they have a weapon even if the weapon turns out to be a chocolate bar or a cellphone...no wait that already happened. How about the fact that the cops were close enough to shoot the tyres of the car out and didn't bother. How about the fact that at the time he was killed the only person he was endangering was the dumb cop that jumped on his hood? How about the fact that the last time he was pulled over by a white cop at night he had ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- beaten out of him for nothing?

[one2three]

How about the "fact" that the cop may have decided not to risk pursuing this upstanding citizen, and instead went on to ticket some dangerous j-walker, then later found out that upstanding citizen went on to plow his car into a bus load of school children?

Was excessive force used? Maybe, unfortunately that's up to others to decide. As for the question of putting others at risk to pursue a ---cleveland steamer--- head, I agree that this is a debatable topic, but that’s for another discussion. However IMHO the cop(s) made their choices, just as the driver did, now they all have to live (or die) with their decisions, and we all get to breath a sigh of relief that another criminal is off the streets.

[Apollo]

Do you think he was a criminal before the cops started chasing him or after?

[one2three]

Both

By the law, when he decided to run, he was criminal.

In my opinion, he was more than likely criminal before, else why did he run? 

[Apollo]

Unfortunately we'll never know.

[koolmoecraig]

Don't run from the police you idiot.

I love how the perp is not the problem. Only the cop for chasing him.

Give it up.

[Apollo]

I never once said that the perp is not the problem, you need to pay more attention.

[danny_galaga]

i have LAME (tm) internet connection. i watched this once. wasnt there a cop before bonnet boy, standing on the ground and firing at the car?

my personal belief is that cops should consider giving chase at all. especially people who steal cars just hoping to get chased...

as apollo said, it amounts to a death sentence. but living in such a lawless country i guess you gotta do what ya gotta do 

edit: just looking for news stories. if it turns out the driver had a gun or something, then i can understand the need to shoot at him.

[shardian]

The newsnet5 article says all three cops fired their weapons.

And from the video, it does appear the cop jumped on the hood before a shot was fired. I guess his reasoning was because he slammed his car into the drivers door and could not get to the driver that way.

It may have been ill advised of the cop to jump on the hood. His actions led to his life being in danger when the guy started to take off. Still, technically the cop was defending himself.
I'm not going to go say crap like "the guy deserved to be pumped full of lead". However, I do think there should be a law that charges a person initiating a police chase with attempted vehicular manslaughter for every single passenger car they pass during the chase. It is plain stupid to run from the poice. It almost always ends bad for someone - be it the perp, a cop, or a family of 4 in a minivan.

I think the cop will be relieved of duty, but I doubt there will be criminal charges. He will be sued in civil court for wrongful death by the guys family though.

[danny_galaga]

i guess im finding it hard to understand how these cops put themselves in harms way. if your gonna be out shooting, why not shoot at the radiator? a few holes and the engine will be toast in less than one minute after a high speed run. and how dangerous could he have been when the cop was able to perch on the bonnet on one knee and fire into the car? the fact that he seemed to have climbed safely onto the car is telling...

[hyiu]

what he's doing is leading him to that dead end road...

at the beginning of the tape... seems like that cop saw him making an illegal u turn or something... then he tries to run in circles.. (and it did seems like for a moment, he's trying to hit the cop car....) and then swirl around the cop car and went on its way...

I mean... if he just stop, and get a ticket... or if he's really lucky... maybe he can even talk out of a ticket....

fact that he's running meaning he has something to hide...

and even if he does not have a gun... I would consider the car he's driving a deadly weapon..... he can easily hit some innocent people / car / house.

if it takes like 3 cops car and multiple hits on the car to stop him, I'm not surprised that the cops open fire...

[one2three]

http://www.wcpo.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=4b0e49e2-a2bc-4742-aecf-757bb372f02d
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=384a1828-eada-4264-9e6c-8def9f217708

Another news article. Note: he did have a list of priors, more than likely he was holding or just whacked out of his skull.

I feel for the officers involved, not sure how bad their injuries were, but pulling the trigger always results in some mental anguish no matter how justified. As for the family of the driver, hopefully they realized how much of a scumbag he was and wrote him off before the shooting.


Edit: added second link; turns out he was drunk and high.

[Jouster]

Am I the only one that thinks that the car was a deadly weapon?  Does he really need a gun to kill a cop?

Something similar happened around here a few years ago where the cop had to jump on the hood to avoid being run over...then he emptied his mag into the driver's seat.  Caused some issues...but the cop was in the right.

The way this idiot was driving...it's a good thing the roads were empty or could have killed someone.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Jouster

[Glaine]

I'm not going to go say crap like "the guy deserved to be pumped full of lead".

Quite right.
Reminds me of the war stories some of my friends come home with, where they say they sometimes regretted shooting down people in the field when they thought there could have been another way to handle things - only to find out upon searching them that they were primed with explosives on themselves.

I know it isn't the same thing here, all I'm saying is it's different when you are in the action yourself. I think, considering the conditions, things could have been much worse. I'm not even going to touch on the issue of right and wrong, you guys seem to have that covered. 

[patrickl]

Isn't this more something for the Politics n Religion forum?

[danny_galaga]

Am I the only one that thinks that the car was a deadly weapon?  Does he really need a gun to kill a cop?

Something similar happened around here a few years ago where the cop had to jump on the hood to avoid being run over...then he emptied his mag into the driver's seat.  Caused some issues...but the cop was in the right.

The way this idiot was driving...it's a good thing the roads were empty or could have killed someone.  Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Jouster

no, im the only one who DOESNT think the car was a deadly weapon at that point. the cops previously MADE it deadly by getting into a high speed pursuit. ill say it again, how deadly could the car have been when the cop can just hop on the bonnet and perch on one knee? and ill say it again, how is it that these trained cops ended up in a potentially dangerous situation like that when all they had to do was stay behind their cars?

[shardian]

no, im the only one who DOESNT think the car was a deadly weapon at that point. the cops previously MADE it deadly by getting into a high speed pursuit. ill say it again, how deadly could the car have been when the cop can just hop on the bonnet and perch on one knee? and ill say it again, how is it that these trained cops ended up in a potentially dangerous situation like that when all they had to do was stay behind their cars?

The cops did not make it a deadly weapon by pursuing. The driver of the car made it a deadly weapon, and he alone was responsible for anything that happens due to the chase.

[jbox]

The cops did not make it a deadly weapon by pursuing. The driver of the car made it a deadly weapon, and he alone was responsible for anything that happens due to the chase.

I agree - any damage caused by the high-speed chase would be all the runner's fault. The question is whether or not "jumping on the bonnet" is an action that is caused by a high-speed chase? 

[danny_galaga]

no, im the only one who DOESNT think the car was a deadly weapon at that point. the cops previously MADE it deadly by getting into a high speed pursuit. ill say it again, how deadly could the car have been when the cop can just hop on the bonnet and perch on one knee? and ill say it again, how is it that these trained cops ended up in a potentially dangerous situation like that when all they had to do was stay behind their cars?

The cops did not make it a deadly weapon by pursuing. The driver of the car made it a deadly weapon, and he alone was responsible for anything that happens due to the chase.

ok, put it this way. what was the reason they were chasing him? he was doing an illegal u-turn. so for an illegal u-turn they are willing to drive at up to 100 mph risking other peoples lives on the road...

[one2three]

ok, put it this way. what was the reason they were chasing him? he was doing an illegal u-turn. so for an illegal u-turn they are willing to drive at up to 100 mph risking other peoples lives on the road...

No the reason they chased him was not because he was doing an illegal u-turn, that was the reason they pulled heim over (or tried in this case). The reason they chased was that he ran, and running is illegal!

[jbox]

Everyone runs.

[Glaine]

Saying that it was the cops' fault that this person was reckless because they chased him is backwards logic. According to this wit, we should just let everyone who wants to run away from the cops do so and not even true to bring them to justice. Besides, if the report that he was drunk and high behind the wheel in the first place, he was already a weapon on the streets in the first place.

[FrizzleFried]

Do the cops put innocent lives at risk by chasing people? How much blame lies with the cops when an innocent bystander is killed during a police chase?
Running from the cops = death? Interesting sort of system you have there Frizzle. What's next? Maybe people should be killed for fighting with cops even if unarmed or maybe people should be killed by the cops if the cops think they have a weapon even if the weapon turns out to be a chocolate bar or a cellphone...no wait that already happened. How about the fact that the cops were close enough to shoot the tyres of the car out and didn't bother. How about the fact that at the time he was killed the only person he was endangering was the dumb cop that jumped on his hood? How about the fact that the last time he was pulled over by a white cop at night he had ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- beaten out of him for nothing?

I'll tell you what Apollo.  You walk in the shoes of a cop for a week then your opinion would mean a little more to me.  Until then,  I write you off as uninformed...

[FrizzleFried]

i guess im finding it hard to understand how these cops put themselves in harms way. if your gonna be out shooting, why not shoot at the radiator? a few holes and the engine will be toast in less than one minute after a high speed run. and how dangerous could he have been when the cop was able to perch on the bonnet on one knee and fire into the car? the fact that he seemed to have climbed safely onto the car is telling...

Another person I'd listen to if he'd walk in the shoes of a policeman for a week.  Shoot the radiator...shoot the tire...HAHAHA...You people aren't that dense are you?  I mean,  this is a put-on,  right?

[Apollo]

Thank god we have you to put us straight Frizzle, I don't know how you find the time for all that book learning in between the NASCAR watching, the fried chicken eating and the hub cap stealing

On a completely different subject I would totally do that girl in your avatar, she's smokin.

[KenToad]

Some crazy arguments go on in here, but there is absolutely no reason why that cop should have jumped on that car in the first place and then be forced to use deadly force to regain control of the situation.

For example:

http://www.newsnet5.com/video/14011479/index.html

here is the page before if that one fails to load:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/14012046/detail.html?subid=10101081

The video at that link shows an interview with the innocent passenger explaining that the cop jumped on top of the vehicle and, near the end of the video, you can clearly see the cop perched on his knees on the hood of the motionless vehicle.   The vehicle starts up again very quickly, placing the cop in potentially mortal danger, but why was the cop kneeling on the motionless vehicle in the first place?  I guess he saw one too many Stallone movies.   

The perpetrator obviously needed to be stopped, but this kind of on-the-spot death sentencing just can't be tolerated.  The police are there to enforce the law, not to be the judge, jury and executioner.

[FrizzleFried]

Thank god we have you to put us straight Frizzle, I don't know how you find the time for all that book learning in between the NASCAR watching, the fried chicken eating and the hub cap stealing

On a completely different subject I would totally do that girl in your avatar, she's smokin.

Don't like NASCAR...and i've never stolen a hub cap,  but I do like me some good Fried Chicken!