New 19inch Medium Res Install help

[BALLS2THEWALL]

I have Paperboy which is run at medium res.  I took the chance and bought billabs BL19C90T 19 inch Multisync monitor.  When I powered it on, the screen was blank and it made a clicking sound every couple seconds.  Im guessing it isnt at the right frequency for medium resolution.  here is some pics:









There is also a switch on the top left of the last pic that switches from 75oms to 1koms.  Dont know what it does but when tring both, it still doesnt work.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Rickn]

Need some clear pictures of the main board. Without them I am going ahead and making a guess as follows:
Billabs is actually a WeiYa board, in this case a nother knock off of the one we use for our tri-res monitors - without he pics cannot be sure.

The clicking is likely one of a few things:
a) the monitor does not support the sink of the paperboy- is the paper boy running at 24 khz?? This is importnat because if it is running at true EGA which is 21khz, the monitor will not support it.
b) You do not have the sync connected properly, is the game composite sync- only 1 sync wire. - how are you connected to the monitor, does it have a small adaptor board?
c) Blown horizontal output?

I suggest you try connecting the monitor to a pc set to 640X480 res (31khz) using the 15 pin sub-d connector to confirm if the monitor is ok, then we can work on the connections.

By the way, what does Billabs have to say???

Please let me know how you make out.

Rick
Rick@Niemandisplays.com
niemandisplays.com

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Ok i talked to billabs and we tried a couple things.  If you look at picture 1 and 2 where the 10 pin connector is i had the red piece upside down so that the red wire on the left should of been on the right.  Flipped the red piece around and still had same problems.  Still looking a picture 1 and 2 he then told me to take the 2 yellow wires and splice the wires and put them together and put it into the 6th pin labeled H/C.  So it went from right to left: Red,Green,Blue,Black,BLANK PIN, then the 2 yellows.  Still no go.  The tech guys only reasoning for this was i had the wires improperly installed in the begining which could of caused something to go wrong on the monitor and he wants me to send it back to him to check the monitor out.  Any thoughts? 

[Rickn]

So it looks like the guy at Billabs is thinking bad syc connection.

I would suggest that you connect the monitor directly to a PC using the VGA connection on that board.

Make sure the PC is at 640X480 res, if it still has the same problem, send it back... the HOT is shorted.

Good luck

Rick

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Looks like the clicking wasnt from the monitor it was from the speakers.  Looks like that a totally another issue.  As far as the monitor goes when pluged into the arcade i get a blank screen and when i plug it into a computer with the resolution you told me to set it to, i get this:



Any suggestions on the monitor and the sound?  The sound was working perfect when i got this cabniet

[Rickn]

So, the pics look like a screen from Windows or at least some PC O/S.

The multiple horizontal images indicate that the PC's O/S is running at a frequency greater than what the monitor can receive.

As I assume the Billabs will do 640X480, then my guess is the PC is set to 1024X768 or 800X600.

Connect the game/pc to a computer monitor and set the resolution to 640X480, 31Khz.

Let me know how you make out.

Rick Nieman
Rick@niemandisplays.com

[BALLS2THEWALL]

wow. ok your right.  my home pc is down so i had my friend come over with his.  over the phone i told him to change res on his OS.  looks like he didnt.  well once i change the res to the right res i got this:



also the sound returned, yeppy!..  I can hear the game playing in the background so i know its the monitor.  When i hook it up , its just black screen.  Whats next?

[Rickn]

Ok, chances are the monitor is fine. After all it did sync on 640X480.

This seems to be a compatability issue between the game and the monitor.

Not my game, not my monitor so I am handicapped. Still here to help.

Call me at the factory tomorrow 10:00 am EST if you wat to go over the details and short circuit as much as possible.


Here is the number 519-621-1722

Talk to you soon

Rick

[Rickn]

By the way, how much do you know about the game?? Was it the original monitor in the game??

I just found a copy of a manual, perhaps you have it, looks like Atari 1984. Huge issues may be wrong polarity of sync, may be separate sync.
Maybe actualy running at true EGA which is 21khz, the aracde industry has coined mid-res and EGA as being the same - they are not.

Does anyone else on the forum know more about these issues and this game??


Rick

[BALLS2THEWALL]

yes the original monitor was in the game.  Its a Wells-Gardner 19k7635. I have the original manual of the game also.

[BALLS2THEWALL]

found some more info:

The game runs on the Atari System 2 hardware. The CPU is a 10 MHz DEC T11. For sound and coin inputs, it uses a Motorola 6502 at 2.2 MHz. The sound chips are 2 POKEYs for digital sound, a Yamaha YM2151 for music, and a TMS5220 for speech. The protection chip is a Slapstic model 137412-105


Atari System 2 hardware
Game ID : 136034

Main CPU : T11, M6502
Sound Chips : YM2151, (2x) POKEY, TMS5220

Screen orientation : Horizontal
Video resolution : 512 x 384 pixels
Screen refresh : 60.00 Hz
Palette colors : 256

[ahofle]

Maybe actualy running at true EGA which is 21khz, the aracde industry has coined mid-res and EGA as being the same - they are not.

I'm a bit confused.  I thought medium resolution games (512x384 @ 60 Hz) were about 25Khz based on the Hfreq / Vfreq calculation?  When I bring up Paperboy in MAME and run it at exactly 512x384 @ 60 Hz, my multisync reports that it is running at 24.6Khz / 60 Hz.   

[Rickn]

Yes what we call mid-res is 24.3 khz, as I mentioned earlier VESA (Video Engineering Standards association) originaly has EGA as 21khz.

That is why true EGA and Mid res are not the same, but I am not about to even try to correct everyone on it.

Rick

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Here are some pics:

Original Monitor Wells-Gardner:







Monitor from billabs:

[BALLS2THEWALL]

I called atari just to see what they would say, they wrote:

"Regrettably, Atari no longer services or supports its classic consoles
 and coin op arcade systems. However, resources exist online in which
 you can purchase legacy Atari hardware, or repair your existing
 equipment:

atariace.com
www.atari2600.com
www.atariguide.com
www.atari-garage.com

Please note that we have provided these websites solely for your
 convenience. Atari in no way endorses any of the listed websites. Your
 correspondence or business dealing with, or participation in promotions of
 merchants listed above, including payment and delivery of related goods
 or services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties, or
 representations associated with such dealings, are solely between you and such
 merchant. Atari will not be responsible or liable for any loss or damage
 of any sort incurred as the result of any such dealings with the listed
 merchants.

Thank You
Atari Support"

[ahofle]

This may be a silly question but are you sure the Paperboy works perfectly aside from the monitor (ie there isn't a problem with the game boards)? 

Also, does your camera have a 'macro' mode?  Should be a little flower icon or something similar.  Those pictures are pretty blurry.

[grantspain]

did you send the monitor back for check over?
i had a multisync hantarex do a strange thing once(not saying its the same layout on the chassis or anything but it gave a similar fault)
i could not get the monitor to run on a silent scope at 24khz but it would run on a 15khz or a 31khz game,i actually sent the monitor to hantarex for repair in the end-it turned out these monitors use a transistor to switch the frequency and the one that controlled the switching to 24khz was knackered
now i'm not saying that is your actual fault but the original monitor looks like a standard mid res 24khz monitor(same as touchmaster i think) so at some point that must have worked and i very much doubt that the monitor would have been modded to that game only(but anything is possible with wg),so maybe the freq issue is taking you down the wrong path
my personal feeling is the new monitor has a manufacture fault,i would send it back for checking first
why don't you repair the original btw?
i don't think plugging the video inputs in the wrong way round would cause this fault but anything is possible i guess

[grantspain]

one thing i am confused about is that the game is made in 1984 but i don't remember seeing any mid res games until the very end of the 80's

[Rickn]

Holey crap batman.

Grant, you just gave what could be a huge hint.

I was with Electrohome a few times... one of them 1980 to 1985. Big boom then on the G07's, G08's and even the end of the G05.

G07 standard res, the other 2 X-Y monitors.

Around 84 is when they started to play with true Vesa  EGA. This was 21Khz not the 24.3 khz that is known as medium res.


Based on the last few pics, I think this is another copy of one of the boards I use??

In that case it will not support the 21khz mode. Here is what should happen... there should be some clcking noises, these are caused by the relays on the monitor switching in and out- trying to understand what frequency the game is.

I have been in contact with "balls to the walls" by e-mail and phone, but please if anyone has more insight... jump in.

Let's try to fix he problem.

Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com

[grantspain]

hey i am not dissing anyone here,and when it comes to monitors i am 100% sure you would kick my arse rick-what i don't understand is if this game runs on a special frequency then why did a bulk standard mid res wells gardner work in the cab before

[BALLS2THEWALL]

This may be a silly question but are you sure the Paperboy works perfectly aside from the monitor (ie there isn't a problem with the game boards)?

Paperboy was working fine until monitor went to a light blue screen with horizonal lines about every 1/2 inch to a inch.  You can still hear the game going in the background. 

did you send the monitor back for check over?
why don't you repair the original btw?
i don't think plugging the video inputs in the wrong way round would cause this fault but anything is possible i guess

I am going to send monitor back today once I talk to Rick to see if he reached billabs.  Fixing old monitor could be the only option but would be temporary.

[Rickn]

Sorry, left 2 voice mails today, no call backs....

Likely due to the fact that I am a competitor, but after all I was trying to help you as their customer?


Rick Nieman
Rick@Niemandisplays.com

[Scorpion]

If you're ever going to get rid of the old one let me know, id be interested.

[Rickn]

By the way, did I miss something... did we ever get a definite ID as far as the model# of the original Well monitor??

Rick

[BALLS2THEWALL]

On the chas it says

Model No. 19k7635
Manfacured June 1988
120v 60 Hz 85w max

[BALLS2THEWALL]

I found the manual for wg monitor!Woot!Woot!

http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/library/manuals/m/wgmedres.pdf

please tell me this helps Rick.

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Talked to billabs and they had me swap some more wires around.  swaped the ground with the sync wires.  still nothing.  he blamed the game not the monitor.  And now i have to pay a 15% "stocking fee".  Doesnt make since to me.  If it was the game you would think both the old and the new monitor would be having the same display when hooked up.  But the old monitor has a bunch of horz. lines and has light blue screen while the new monitor doesnt show anything.

[Wade]

I always thought that Paperboy was 25khz just like 720 and Champ/Super sprint, other Atari System 2 games.

Wade

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Yeah thats what I heard.  Toobin is another game

[grantspain]

if you get the old monitor working it will prove where the problems lies-i bet the problem is no more than some caps/bad solder joints or trace/whatever controls the colour decoding or a colour drive transistor.
bet ken has got some tips on this chassis

[Wade]

Yeah thats what I heard.  Toobin is another game

Where did you get that monitor anywhere and how much was it?  Seems like people are always looking for 19" 25khz monitors.  I didn't know there was anyone supplying them!

Wade

[BALLS2THEWALL]

Where did you get that monitor anywhere and how much was it?  Seems like people are always looking for 19" 25khz monitors.  I didn't know there was anyone supplying them!

Wade

Paperboy already had the original monitor.  The new monitor was auto sync it said it could do 25khz.  Never got it to sync and lost about $150 on the deal.  Not too happy