Awning Motor

[mpm32]

I was given a motorized awning.  The house it came from was hit by lightning and the awning motor stopped working.  The awning did not get struck directly.  I hooked it up to test it and it is indeed dead.  I opened up the case and there is a control board that I assume is for limiting the travel both in the outward direction and the inbound direction.  There are no obviously cooked components. 

If I take pictures, does anyone here think they could walk me through testing so that I can see what went on it?  I have a multimeter but I don't know exactly what to test.

I like to try and fix this as a replacement motor is around $700.

I imagine that it's most likely the control board and less likely the motor portion itself.

[Ken Layton]

There's probably a fuse on the board somewhere.

What brand is this unit? Hopefully not a Chamberlain or Liftmaster as they are ---smurfs--- to deal with.

[mpm32]

It's a german motor, company begins with an 'E'.  I have the name at home.  I'll take some pictures and maybe you can guide me as to what I need to look at.  In my first cursory look, I didn't see a fuse.

Thanks for your help Ken I appreciate and respect the knowledge that you pass on around here.

[Ed_McCarron]

Pics would be worth a thousand words.

What kind of power supply?

Are the limit switches based on torque or are there external switches of some variety?

[ChadTower]

There has to be a fuse somewhere, doesn't there?  I thought UL required it on everything electronic now.  I could be wrong on that, though.

[mpm32]

I would think there would be a fuse, like I said I only took a quick look.  I had it apart on the kitchen counter and my wife was trying to make dinner so for some reason she wanted me to finish up and put it away, women - sheesh.

I will take some pics tonight.

[ChadTower]

It may not be on that PCB.  I would start at the power source and just follow it until I found the fuse.  Do you know yet if it's a DC or AC motor?

[mpm32]

it's ac and it's not hardwired anymore.  It's out of the awning tube and I wired it to a double throw switch and a plug to test.

[ChadTower]

Are you saying you took the motor out of its circuit, gave it AC, and it won't work?  That's different than what you said in the first post.

[mpm32]

To clarify, the motor has been disconnected from the house power.  There are four wires coming out of the unit.  Red, White, Black, Green.  I wired up the plug and switch according to the wiring diagram to a temporary test plug.

So, the issue is isolated to within the motor itself. Not the house circuit.

The awning came from a relative and if I can fix it, I'll put it up on my deck if not, I'll take it to the dump.

[ChadTower]

Can you define "motor" in your posts?  Is it limited to the actual AC motor or are you calling the whole device (AC motor, control board, etc) the "motor"?

If you got good power to the actual AC motor, isolated from the rest of the components of the device, and it still won't work, your issue is already settled.

[Chris]

There's probably a fuse on the board somewhere.

What brand is this unit? Hopefully not a Chamberlain or Liftmaster as they are ---smurfs--- to deal with.

Ken, is there *anything* you don't know about fixing?

[mpm32]

Ah, I see what you're looking for Chad.

I have not tried putting power to the motor by bypassing the control board yet.  I have had limited time with it so far.

I was calling the whole thing the motor.

So for future discussion I will use the following;

Motor Unit - for the whole thing

Motor - for the motor within the housing

controller board - for the electronics within the housing.

Pics will come tonight or tomorrow.

[ChadTower]

That works better.  Task #1, if you can't see an immediate potential cause (like a burned area on the controller or dead fuse), would probably be to make sure the motor still works.

[boykster]

I would also recommend sticking a fork into the outlet you are using to ensure that you have power 

[JackTucky]

I would also recommend sticking a fork into the outlet you are using to ensure that you have power 

Don't do this.  You can die!

Isolate yourself from the charge first by buttering your hand liberally with grease and standing in a bucket filled with water.  Try to take a picture of yourself before you do actually insert the fork.  For the insurance adjusters.

=J

[mpm32]

SO the fork thing worked.

Anyway, I appled power directly to the motor and it works both ways.  So it has to be something on the control board.  On the underside of the board under the two orange things on the right there is some discoloration.  I believe these are micro relays.  They are marked Schrack RE030024.  What are the odds that this is the problem?  How would I test these relays? Where would I get replacements?

[Ken Layton]

Those two orange things are indeed printed circuit board mount relays. Schrack does indeed make relays. The numbers you have given don't cross to either an ECG or NTE replacement relay though. You'll probably have to go to Schrack's website and punch those numbers (along with the voltage stamped on the relay case) in and also find a distributor that stocks them.

In garage door openers, it's common for the manufacturers to under-spec relays to just get past the warranty and then fail. Chances are yours has burnt/pitted internal contacts.

[leapinlew]

Those two orange things are indeed printed circuit board mount relays. Schrack does indeed make relays. The numbers you have given don't cross to either an ECG or NTE replacement relay though. You'll probably have to go to Schrack's website and punch those numbers (along with the voltage stamped on the relay case) in and also find a distributor that stocks them.

In garage door openers, it's common for the manufacturers to under-spec relays to just get past the warranty and then fail. Chances are yours has burnt/pitted internal contacts.

You know who you remind me of Ken? This guy

[ChadTower]

What he should do is start at the power source for the control board, IMO... find where power comes in and check the basic stuff like whatever is regulating voltage and make sure it didn't just fry the first thing it encountered.

Have you verified that whatever transformer is used is good?

[mpm32]

There's no transformer that I can see.  For a transformer to be required, the voltage required by the motor would be less or more than the motor required, no?  In this case the motor takes 110v directly.

I found the relays at Mouser $4.65 each.  On the board this is the only area that looks like it got zapped.  Think I should get them?

Relay

[ChadTower]

For a transformer to be required, the voltage required by the motor would be less or more than the motor required, no?

Erm, no?   

[mpm32]

Well, I always thought that a transformer changed the voltage either steping it up or lowering the voltage.  In this case, why would a transformer be needed if the end componant requires the same voltage going in?  Not trying to be a smartass just trying to learn.

Anyway I do not believe that this unit has one, I've seen what transfromers look like and there's no room in the housing for one.  The mains power would come in to the unit and hit the transformer first right?  In this unit the mains power goes directly to the board.

I think I'm going to take a chance and order the relays.  I think only one is blown but I'll replace both.

[mpm32]

find where power comes in and check the basic stuff

Oh, the power comes into the board and it looks like the relays are the first thing it hits.

If you look at picture three, you can see where the mains hit the board.

Also if you look at the bottom left of the picture, you can see some white plastic gearing.  I believe that this is the limit adjustment.  There is a magnet that gets turned when a ring on the outside of the housing gets turned.  What does one call this hall effect?

[ChadTower]

Actually, I was being a smartass, because the grammar makes that statement really, really awkward.

Yes, the transformer is for either stepping voltage up or stepping voltage down.  If the motor works on pure 110v then you may not need one.  I'm betting that the controller PCB does not work off 110v.

[mpm32]

I agree that the board doesn't run on 110.  It must get stepped down somewhere.  After the relays?

Here's the specs on the relays looks like they'll take 110.

=Specs

[ChadTower]

Yes, the relays would carry 110, as that would be the path from house wiring to the motor.  But the controller circuit likely isn't working off the 110v.  I'd find where the controller is getting its power and make sure that it isn't totally fried.

[Ed_McCarron]

There is a magnet that gets turned when a ring on the outside of the housing gets turned.  What does one call this hall effect?

If the boards 'upside down' in that pic, the three lead device to the left of the board does indeed look like a hall effect sensor.

Theres also a PIC on board... My guess is it either counts rotations, or looks for lack of rotation to use as a limit.  Theres something in there that requires some brains.

[Ed_McCarron]

Oh, and betcha that red critter in the middle is some kind of self contained power supply...

[ChadTower]

You mean like a battery?

[mpm32]

The red thing in the middle is actually two things with a sticker on top making it look like one. Not sure what those are.   The thing on left by my fingers (PIC?) is what resides underneath the round magnet when it is all together.  You can see the gears by the green ground wires in the lower left.  The gears turn the magnet for what I assume is the limit adjustment.

[Ken Layton]

Actually the red things look like 'snubber' capacitors to reduce arcing and current inrush to the relays.

I'd go ahead and replace the two relays anyway. That's a good price on them at Mouser.

[mpm32]

Thanks Ken.  I ordered them, I'll post the results once I get them replaced.

[Ed_McCarron]

Actually the red things look like 'snubber' capacitors to reduce arcing and current inrush to the relays.

Oh, thats two things... Yep.  Long rectangular caps.  I thought it was one box...

By PIC, I meant the multipin chip on the other side... Its a microcontroller.

[mpm32]

Ah, then what's the chip looking thing in between my fingers with the three legs?  Just curious.

[ChadTower]

It says right on it but we can't read it because the pic is too blurry.  Do a google on the part number.

[mpm32]

Dude you're funny.  I would but it's at home and I'm in the office, which is not at home.  I thought that from the location under the magnet and the general picture someone might have an idea.

[ChadTower]

Best guess is a transistor, second would be voltage regulator.

[Ed_McCarron]

I still think its the hall effect sensor.  Does that part face the magnet, or does the chip when the board is installed???

[mpm32]

That thing sits directly below the round magnet when everything is back together.

[Ed_McCarron]

My bet is on hall effect sensor.

[mpm32]

Well, I replaced the relays.  Didn't work.  So, I just bypassed the board alltogether.  The only thing the controller board did (I think) was to limit the outboard and inboard travel.  Now I will have to just watch how far it goes out and how far it travels inward before I turn off the switch.

[ChadTower]

Hell you could probably build out a little assembly to do that yourself.

[mpm32]

If I had a picture of one or schematics, I might be able to.  I'm a good copier.     I was thinking of using some switches, like the microswitches with the lever attached actuated mechanically by something on the awning.

[ChadTower]

That's what I'm thinking... leaf switches on either end of the track.

[Ed_McCarron]

Why bother?  How often will you be running it up and down?  How long does it take?

KISS.  Worse case scenario, you lose 30 seconds out of your day.  Whats that, like the time it takes to find and post one cheesecake picture?

On second thought, get to work on those switches right away.

[mpm32]

There's a long distance between the thinking and the implementation.    I'll put my money on it staying at the thinking phase.

[iknowthings]

If you or anybody else has this problem i can help you. Thanks for reading

The unit that is attached to the motor is called RECEIVER. Most probably the motor that you had at beginning was a standard motor and it had no remote controls.
This receiver sends the signal from the remote control and controls the motor wireless.  You would have different wires from the motor going into the receiver.

A standard motor has 4 wires : Ground -green, Neutral ( White), Black ( Power) and another wire usually Red.

When you connect the motor to a junction box the RED AND BLACK wires become UP and Down position of the motor.
The neutral stays with neutral
The ground stays with ground.
Power line goes directly to the wall switch + Red wire and Black wire( which are up and down!!!!)
You Connect all these wires to a wall switch ( rocker or toggle SPDT) and you can control the awning from the wall switch ( UP-=STOP=-DOWN)

If you want a wireless device with a remote control you have many many different options:

The smart way and the cheap way it would be to buy a tubular motor that is Radio. In other words it has the receiver incorporated in the motor. 

What you have is a standard motor that later on was added a receiver to convert it to RADIO-wireless operated with a remote control!!

If the receiver goes BAD....you can say bye bye to it. Its very cheap to replace, around $70-up to $100.00.pc

The motor , A radio tubular motor goes for $300-400.00 with 5 years warranty.

If you need help with your "weekend project" let me know. I can save you tons of money. 

I buy my parts from this company if it matters or if it helps.  www.tubularmotor.us

http://www.tubularmotor.us/rc006.html

[DaOld Man]

Errr, iknowthings; I think you are about 5 and a half years late on this.

Makes me wonder if this device ever got fixed?

[mpm32]

LOL, I started reading this and said to myself wait, this sounds familiar. I read through 12 posts before I realized I was the OP.  I thought the OP was pretty witty too, now I know why.

I got the motor working, I even made limit switches. Then I used it to fully extend the awning.  The canvas was too shot to make it worthwhile putting on the house. So I chopped it up with a sawsall and brought it to the dump.

My brain is like an overstuffed sock drawer - stuff new socks in and the ones in the back get pushed out.

[DaOld Man]

My brain works on the bb in the straw theory.
Put a bb in one end of the straw, and an older bb is pushed out the other end.

[Le Chuck]

Thanks to the internets my brain is now 84% cats, 13% p0rn, 1% useful knowledge, and 12% butter-ripple. 

[Howard_Casto]

I'm not sure if I even have a conscious brain anymore. 

I'm just a machine that turns Moutain Dew/Dr.  Pepper into lines of code. 

Speaking of which... I'm slowing down, better go get some Dr. Pepper. 

[DaOld Man]

Reminds me of the Juicy Juice commercial on Family Guy.
"Drink it then convert it to pee"