I finally got a pin...RESTORED AND LOVING IT.

[ChadTower]

Fair enough... but it also scratches the eff out of your playfield and everything on it.

[Wade]

Ummm, I just had an accident, and I'm not really sure why or how.

I had the playfield glass setting to the side, and just now picked it up like I have many times before to put it back in the machine. Without hitting it on anything, twisting it funny, or even breathing on it, it just frikkin exploded. Luckily, tempered glass doesn't cut your hands when it goes.

Needless to say, I am a bit pissed off now.

Well, aside from the mess, you're in luck.  I have 3 or 4 spare pinball glasses I haven't been sure what to do with.  You can take one, or even 2 so you'll have a spare.  None of them are horrible but they all have scratches.  It's free anyway.

Wade

[shardian]

Ummm, I just had an accident, and I'm not really sure why or how.

I had the playfield glass setting to the side, and just now picked it up like I have many times before to put it back in the machine. Without hitting it on anything, twisting it funny, or even breathing on it, it just frikkin exploded. Luckily, tempered glass doesn't cut your hands when it goes.

Needless to say, I am a bit pissed off now.

Well, aside from the mess, you're in luck.  I have 3 or 4 spare pinball glasses I haven't been sure what to do with.  You can take one, or even 2 so you'll have a spare.  None of them are horrible but they all have scratches.  It's free anyway.

Wade

You rule!

As a side note, you should take pictures of your parts room. I think most here would be more jealous of that than your actual game room.

[Wade]

You mean the junk room??  Nothing there to be jealous of.  Unless, of course, you value broken stuff and old beat up parts.

Wade

[shardian]

Small update:

I removed the half-circle mylars protectors in front of the slingshots last night. They came up pretty easy. The glue is a pain in the butt to remove. Overall though, it was a good idea. It already looks much better.

[shardian]

I finally got back to this last night. First off, Bay Area Amusements absolutely KICKS ASS! I got my stuff in 2 days from California, they were ridiculously cheap on parts and shipping, and they gave me some Jelly Beans. 

Anyways, the two main issues I had were a sticking flipper and no displays. I now have working flippers and ALL working displays. I cut the leads to the fried knocker coil to try and resolve my sound issue. The sound worked for a game, then cut out again. I'll have to figure that one out still. Nevertheless, the game works!!

(Add pictures soon)

[shardian]

Can someone report this thread to a mod to be moved to the pinball forum please?

[Ginsu Victim]

Can someone report this thread to a mod to be moved to the pinball forum please?

(POOF! MAGIC!)

[shardian]

Some pics. Click the thumbnails for the big photos.

[BUCKETHEAD]

stopped in Radioshack to see if there were any parts I could pick up now that I could put to immediate use... Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! They don't have crap.

RADIO SHACK SUCKS !  They never have anything! 

[shardian]

We've been playing the pin every night since it was fixed. My wife is actually encouraging me to go ahead and restore the playfield. She even made a trip to the craft store to pick out acrylic paints for touch-ups. I figure I'll leave it on the market for 2 weeks, and if it doesn't sell I will go ahead and shop it out.

Have I mentioned that my wife rules? 

[shardian]

I finally took the time to 'decode' the switch matrix last night. As I've discussed earlier, only 2 of the 4 top rollovers work, and that limits several other playfield features. They were the only switches I thought weren't functioning. Well it turns out that the "C" rollovers are actually the same switch input. The other rollovers are on the same return line, so that couldn't be a problem. The strobe line is where things get interesting. The shared strobe switches are a red drop target, a white drop target, and a rollover button. Since the sound hardly ever works and I get mechanical feedback when scoring a target, I've never really noticed if these other switches scored or not. It was too late to test out last night when I learned this, but I can pretty much guarantee that they will not score. This means I just need to check the pin and trace the wire from one CPU connector to find the problem.

Pins may be a royal PITA sometimes, but the feeling of accomplishment when solving a problem is very addictive. 

[shardian]

Ok, I have an electronics question for the Guru's.

The strobe line is definitely the culprit. I continuity tested everything, and it is good all the way thru the cpu pin. The way the sys1  is wired is that all switches run to a diode bank on the bottom of the playfield. All the diodes for each return then tie together and run 1 wire to the cpu connector. I was really hoping I would find a break in continuity. Since I didn't I am stuck.

The only other possibilities are the diodes or the cpu board. Could a bad diode cause the whole row to stop responding? Wouldn't it read as a stuck switch?

If that is not the culprit, then I am left with the cpu board. There is a 7404 chip that the switch matrix feeds thru that can go bad. Can a bad 7404 chip result in a single strobe going bad?? I have a probe and am willing to go thru the hassle of using it, but I am just curious if a single dead strobe line would be caused by the chip.

[shardian]

Well in that case I will clip/check all the diodes on that line tonight. IIRC, in a jamb you can use a 1n4004 to replace those, right?

[shardian]

Good news and bad news.

The good news is that my probe definitely shows the problem is that strobe 0 is not functional on the 7404 controlling chip. The bad news is that neither input for the strobe is flashing - that means one of the spider chips are bad. I misinterpreted the results to think the 7404 was bad and I was home free. I wasted over an hour scavenging another 7404 from a dead board, and almost finished desoldering the 'dead' chip before the reality dawned on me.

All I can say is MOTHER ---smurf---!!!!ELEVENTY1

At least the board is 98% functional though. I tried my second bench booting board and there is something wrong with it. It boots in the game to 000000 displays at the proper time, but does not fire the solenoids. It the flashes a 't' in each display every few seconds after that - I can't coin up or start a game. I haven't read about that, any ideas jim. At least the z8 7404 was working...

[ChadTower]

Could it be a diode that shorts under current but reads just fine with a DMM?  I've seen those a couple of times.  I was told it's the final stage before true failure - the PN junction just can't handle current but the tiny flow that the DMM puts out doesn't cause an issue.  IIRC wear failure results in a short and overvoltage backwards causes an open but some diodes will go into a harder to diagnose intermittent state like a leaky transistor (which, of course, is just a couple diodes anyway).

[shardian]

I pulled the board and booted it on the bench. Used my pocket scope to read the inputs of the suspect chip. Each strobe line is represented by 2 pins - an input and an output. The spider chip represents the input side. If everything is normal, both pins are pulsing. If  the input pulses but no output, the TTL is bad. If neither pin of a matrix row pulses, no soup for you! In short, diodes had nothing to do with it.

I did go ahead and finish putting in the replacement chip and attached the battery pack. When I first turned the game back on, it was acting very weird! All kinds of stuff was acting funny. After a while, I realized the problem: I had switched out the game prom to the other board, and currently had a Pinball pool prom in the 'working board'. I rectified that problem and got back to mostly working condition. I supposed it is the addition of the battery pack, but the game does act up a bit more now. Pushing the start button too many times puts the game into service mode - as in the start button functions as the service button. The service button does nothing.


In the end, I now know that everything on the cabinet works except for the main board. I will keep an eye out for a tested 100% CPU, or just ask Santa for a repro cpu. I have played this game enough to think that I would like keeping it around for a while. I do like the playfield for the most part, and everyone who played it at the party yesterday loved it. At this point I just have to see it thru as a restored machine.

[shardian]

On a whim, I decided to start tearing the playfield down last night. It is a pretty straightforward process. My 18 month old girl took a keen interest, and 'helped' me a bit. I thought it was very cute until she started losing posts when I was looking away. 

Anyways, most of the metal posts are really nasty, with what I assume is crusty wax/cleaner. The plastics are all warped from the lamps. Good news though is that all posts are present and in good condition. The only thing cosmetically I really need is a set of lane guides for the top rollovers. I can live with that.

Anyone know of a good way to remove the top part of Gottlieb pop bumpers?

[shardian]

Heh, it pays to work with a bunch of hardcore hunters. I am going to be able to borrow a vibrating tumbler to polish all of my small metal parts over the weekend. 

[shardian]

Currently I'm tumbling small batches of hardware. My opinion so far of the tumbling method is 'meh'. Things that looked good to start with look a little better, and things that looked like ---Cleveland steamer--- are now clean at least. It doesn't work miracles on anything that has lost its plating, so I guess I will eventually replace my shooter assembly. The biggest plus to using a tumbler is that there is no work involved. You just dump it in, then sift it out. Picking a few chunks of media out of screw heads is far less work than hand cleaning/polishing every post/screw/small hardware.

I did a test run on cleaning white plastic posts, and it is not easy/not good results. Is there a simple, fast method to brightening these things up with Novus?

I also cleaned the plastics in prep to flatten them. Everything I read says to use windex. I instead went with Mean Green. That stuff is a kick-ass cleaner! Other than being warped, the plastics look brand new. The heat browning just melted off the back side, and the fronts looked shiny and polished.

Another poll question: Have any of you all flattened plastics? If so, what method did you use? I am leaning towards either the heat gun, or holding them over a camping stove.

[ChadTower]

I did a test run on cleaning white plastic posts, and it is not easy/not good results. Is there a simple, fast method to brightening these things up with Novus?

Depends exactly which posts you mean but in my experience a lot of the white plastic parts have gone the way of the SNES.

[shardian]

Basic faceted white post.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, if your issue is that the plastic has changed color, just replace them.  White plastic does that over time and it's not reversible.

[shardian]

Well they are now 'off white'. Honestly, I think I'll just stick with off-white if it comes down to it. All the posts are accounted for and in good condition, so it really isn't worth changing them all out for bright white. They would just stand out awkwardly then I think.

But if you say I can't buff them to brighten them, I'll just throw them in the dish washer to simplify things.

[ChadTower]

Well they are now 'off white'. Honestly, I think I'll just stick with off-white if it comes down to it. All the posts are accounted for and in good condition, so it really isn't worth changing them all out for bright white. They would just stand out awkwardly then I think.

But if you say I can't buff them to brighten them, I'll just throw them in the dish washer to simplify things.

That's what I would do too.  If it's not surface dirt you're not going to get them white again.  Wait until you find your real keeper pins to go that far with.

[shardian]

The only new cosmetic parts I plan on getting are pop bumper caps. One of them broke when I tried to take it off. That thing was pretty damn brittle. I have to replace both because replacing only one would make the other look like crap.

[ChadTower]

Bolting brand new vibrant parts onto a 30 year old game looks hideous.  You should try to freshen up the old parts as much as possible and stick with those.

It can look out of place.  I like it in fully restored games, though.

[shardian]

The playfield is getting a full restore, but the cabinet is not. I'll clean the exterior, but I'm not repainting a perfectly good cabinet with very minor wear.

[shardian]

Used Naptha for the first time this weekend. That stuff smells like ass and really doesn't work very well. I ended up switching to Mean Green to clean the playfield. It works MUCH better, smells MUCH better, and even added shine to the playfield. As far as I can tell, there is no penetration to the playfield (swelling), and I get the felling that aspect is a bit over-rated.

Other than that, I am using Magic Eraser and Alcohol to give the machine a once over. It is much more effective at removing old wax than naptha, plus it saves me step by polishing out the ball swirls.

I did run into one issue though with Mean Green. I was cleaning the shooter gauge, but noticed the Mean Green was removing the gauge ink (not the white base color). I switched to a less aggressive cleaner and the same  thing happened. The graphics are all still there, they just appear faded a bit now. I clear coated it once clean, so it shouldn't be a problem again. My main worry is the apron. It has the same style screened inks. I will start with soap/water and see if that does good enough before clear coating it too. Anyone else have experience with this?

[ChadTower]

plus it saves me step by polishing out the ball swirls.

Are you going to clear this one?  I'm not a big fan of using ME on a playfield that isn't going to get sealed off somehow.  It only makes the problem worse in the long term.

[polaris]

shardian
not sure what you mean by alcohol but have you tried this stuff

iso propyl alcohol

works well for cleaning stuff but i have no pin experience with it

chad?

[shardian]

Leave the apron alone.  They can't be cleaned with anything.

Trust me on this one.

Not even soap and water? There is some corrosion/dirt that really needs to be cleaned up on it. I guess I could very carefully spot clean it...

Even with the faded graphics, the shooter gauge looks 10x better.

[shardian]

Okay, it is time for some pictures. First up, some 'before' pictures.



As you can see, it is just overall grimy and nasty, with plenty of ball swirl and stress cracking. It did look worse before, but a few months ago I did use a magic eraser and cleaners on it in a few areas.

[shardian]

These photos are after cleaning, magic eraser, and Novus 2 buffing. As you can see, some areas have major wear. The white plastic areas I can only do so much with. I suppose I could work them over again with the magic eraser, but the return wouldn't be worth it.



I also have several wear spots in the non painted wood areas. I want to build those back up with llaquer before clear coating. There is alot of minor wear spots, but the top pop bumper is the worst area.

[ChadTower]

Make sure you look into possible reactions between lacquer and whatever clear you use... RGP has too many horror stories about that to count.

[Wade]

That looks a heck of a lot better already!  The wear is not that bad.  I don't suppose there's anything you can really do about the discoloration/cracking in the white areas, unless you wanted to go crazy with it and repaint those areas entirely.  (I wouldn't do it.)  That kind of cracking is pretty typical of older pins.  It's something that 90's pins really had an advantage over the older pins.  The automotive clear coats just hold up SO much better, fading and discoloration is rare, as is cracking.  On the other hand the ball is travelling twice as fast and smashing into things much harder, too, so it's all a tradeoff.

I'm surprised by how good that playfield looks already so I might be tempted to not even touch it up.  (Who am I kidding?) Truthfully, I find touchup one of the easiest and quickest ways to improve a pin.  I use Testors though, which is different than what most people seem to use.

Wade

[shardian]

I'll be going the acrylic route. I bought several shades for each color to come up with good matches. I am still torn as to spraying or brushing the clear on. The more I think about it, the more I think I should brush. Some of the inserts aren't true level, and brushing would probably even that up with thicker coats than spraying.

[Wade]

I tried acrylics for touchup, but I thought they were sucktastic.  They just don't cover very well, they change color when they dry, and they don't seem to dry as smooth or stroke-free as Testors.  I'd rather match the color once and be done with it.  I think the real reason many people use acrylic is because you can wipe it off and try again if it looks bad.  With a playfield that already has a clearcoat on it, this would be even easier.  So using acrylics seems less risky.  Anyway, a lot of people use acrylics and are happy with them, it just hasn't worked for me.

Are you planning to clearcoat the whole thing or just the touchup areas?  That might affect whether you want to brush or spray.  I have found Polycrylic to be fairly self-leveling when brushed on heavy, but I'm not sure I'd want to brush a whole playfield.  I would probably try to spray it.  The Polycrylic I've used has also been sandable, so it might be possible to block sand it to try to level/smooth it.

Wade

[ChadTower]

I am utterly useless at color matching.  I stay as far from that as I can.

[shardian]

I thought about the Testors enamels, but I don't have much faith in getting a good match with limited color selections. The acrylics were really cheap, so I could get multiple shades of the 4 base colors. As to clearcoating, I'll be doing the whole thing. After magic eraser-ing a whole playfield, brushing on a bit of clear coat should be a walk in the park!