BIOSHOCK!!

[tommy]

I only have an agp slot, but after looking at your link i may be able to find a decent enough card at that price for my rig.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think any PCIe cards have Shader Model 3 but you better check that.  This game does require SM3.  I was in the same boat as you last year.  I found that even though most of my computer would be fine for playing current PC games I needed to finally upgrade to a board with PCIe slots so I could use a next-gen graphics card.   Even if I was willing to accept less performance.  It also allowed me to make a massive jump in CPU power.

Huh?  I'm guessing you meant you don't think any AGP cards have SM3, but there are plenty of them.  SM3 is on the cards GeForce 6600, Radeon x1300 or better, and it looks like available cards for AGP go up to GeForce 7950GT and Radeon X1950XT.  Maybe your thinking of Shader Model 4.0 and DirectX 10, because there are no AGP cards for those.

No, i meant that the link provided only had PCIe cards and i could only use an agp card. I can find what i need though.

[shmokes]

My poor computer.  It was so extravagant when I got it, the ATI X800 was the fastest card around.  Look what it has been reduced to.  LOOK!

So, yeah, I knew that my computer was getting to be a little bit older, but for the first time I have tried to play a game (demo) on it that it simply could not handle.  Too bad.  Looks like my PC gaming days are officially over, as I highly doubt that I will be replacing or even upgrading this machine until I'm finished with school three years from now.

Tommy, you're weird.  You act like MS is run by some evil supervillain who deliberately unleashed a defective product on the world and is now sitting back in his lair cackling like a madman.  The console simply has a design flaw, and it's costing the company millions of dollars.  They're no happier about it than anyone else.  But they seem to have taken every appropriate measure, and acted in good faith.  They're taking care of the systems that are already out there and they've redesigned the system altogether to make sure future purchasers don't have the same problem.  Why are you so agro about MS.  They made a mistake, but beyond that they do have the system with by far the most excellent games on it.  That ought to count for something with someone who presumably enjoys excellent games.

[tommy]

Tommy, you're weird.  You act like MS is run by some evil supervillain who deliberately unleashed a defective product on the world and is now sitting back in his lair cackling like a madman. 

That's not how i act, and if you read anything from me about my feelings about MS you would know that is not what i think at all. I know they don't want this to be happening, that''s just a silly thing to say, and not the point at all.

I just feel for a such a big company to put out a console with such major problems they obviously did not do their jog somewhere along the lines and i simply will not buy that console and will always try to warn people before they support a company who did not test their console enough to find a simple problem like this. MS rushed out their console to be the first one out and did not put in the time needed to find what problems could arise from prolonged use of their console. period. This is not acceptable.

[AtomSmasher]

I only have an agp slot, but after looking at your link i may be able to find a decent enough card at that price for my rig.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think any PCIe cards have Shader Model 3 but you better check that.  This game does require SM3.  I was in the same boat as you last year.  I found that even though most of my computer would be fine for playing current PC games I needed to finally upgrade to a board with PCIe slots so I could use a next-gen graphics card.   Even if I was willing to accept less performance.  It also allowed me to make a massive jump in CPU power.

Huh?  I'm guessing you meant you don't think any AGP cards have SM3, but there are plenty of them.  SM3 is on the cards GeForce 6600, Radeon x1300 or better, and it looks like available cards for AGP go up to GeForce 7950GT and Radeon X1950XT.  Maybe your thinking of Shader Model 4.0 and DirectX 10, because there are no AGP cards for those.

No, i meant that the link provided only had PCIe cards and i could only use an agp card. I can find what i need though.

I understood what you meant, I was just responding to Dervacumen.

[shmokes]

Tommy, you're weird.  You act like MS is run by some evil supervillain who deliberately unleashed a defective product on the world and is now sitting back in his lair cackling like a madman. 

That's not how i act, and if you read anything from me about my feelings about MS you would know that is not what i think at all. I know they don't want this to be happening, that''s just a silly thing to say, and not the point at all.

I just feel for a such a big company to put out a console with such major problems they obviously did not do their jog somewhere along the lines and i simply will not buy that console and will always try to warn people before they support a company who did not test their console enough to find a simple problem like this. MS rushed out their console to be the first one out and did not put in the time needed to find what problems could arise from prolonged use of their console. period. This is not acceptable.

No console manufacturer finishes their product and then shelves it for a full year to test long term viability, including Sony and Nintendo.  All you have to do is read developer interviews.  First gen software is started on PC's and then initial development kits are finally delivered that bare little resemblance to the final product, and developers tend to get final kits just a couple months before the console ships.  In fact, neither Nintendo or Sony have had their systems on the market long enough to tell if a similar fate awaits them.  It probably doesn't.  MS just had some bad luck.  But give a guy a break.  It would be one thing if the original Xbox had similar quality issues, but that wasn't the case.  Matter of fact, it was the PS2 in the last generation that had a chronic problem with the lasers in their disc drives becoming misaligned and refusing to read media.  And, frankly, I don't believe that Sony had the gumption to step up and fix the problem no matter what, regardless of warranty status.

I'm no MS fanboy.  I own a Wii, and hope to get a PS3 this gen.  I'm planning to sit MS out this time around (assuming that the PS3 drops in price and becomes a serious competitor in the next few years).  But you can't seriously take this ring-of-death thing as far as you're taking it.  It's just an unfortunate thing, and MS has been a total standup company about it.  They've owned up to their mistake and are being totally honorable about fixing it. 

[ahofle]

You act like MS is run by some evil supervillain who deliberately unleashed a defective product on the world and is now sitting back in his lair cackling like a madman. 

HAHAHAHHAHA!
Oh...wait...I thought you were being serious and talking about Bill Gates and MS Windows.   

[tommy]

Tommy, you're weird.  You act like MS is run by some evil supervillain who deliberately unleashed a defective product on the world and is now sitting back in his lair cackling like a madman. 

That's not how i act, and if you read anything from me about my feelings about MS you would know that is not what i think at all. I know they don't want this to be happening, that''s just a silly thing to say, and not the point at all.

I just feel for a such a big company to put out a console with such major problems they obviously did not do their jog somewhere along the lines and i simply will not buy that console and will always try to warn people before they support a company who did not test their console enough to find a simple problem like this. MS rushed out their console to be the first one out and did not put in the time needed to find what problems could arise from prolonged use of their console. period. This is not acceptable.

No console manufacturer finishes their product and then shelves it for a full year to test long term viability, including Sony and Nintendo.  All you have to do is read developer interviews.  First gen software is started on PC's and then initial development kits are finally delivered that bare little resemblance to the final product, and developers tend to get final kits just a couple months before the console ships.  In fact, neither Nintendo or Sony have had their systems on the market long enough to tell if a similar fate awaits them.  It probably doesn't.  MS just had some bad luck.  But give a guy a break.  It would be one thing if the original Xbox had similar quality issues, but that wasn't the case.  Matter of fact, it was the PS2 in the last generation that had a chronic problem with the lasers in their disc drives becoming misaligned and refusing to read media.  And, frankly, I don't believe that Sony had the gumption to step up and fix the problem no matter what, regardless of warranty status.

I'm no MS fanboy.  I own a Wii, and hope to get a PS3 this gen.  I'm planning to sit MS out this time around (assuming that the PS3 drops in price and becomes a serious competitor in the next few years).  But you can't seriously take this ring-of-death thing as far as you're taking it.  It's just an unfortunate thing, and MS has been a total standup company about it.  They've owned up to their mistake and are being totally honorable about fixing it. 

I bet you next time they will test it properly and not want to put their customers through hell and waste their own time and money getting it right after the fact.

[shmokes]

Yes, I imagine they will not want to put their customers through that next time.   Though, I imagine, they didn't want to put their customers through it this time.  And I imagine they will probably test it extensively and try their hardest to keep this from happening again.  Wait . . . where exactly are you going with this?

[tommy]

Wait . . . where exactly are you going with this?

Oh, i don't know, just back to my original argument that they should have made sure it was tested the first time so this sort of thing would not happen.

I will give them some credit for standing by their console but in the same sentence, if they did not stand by it they would be finished as far as console buyers go.

[shmokes]

Sony didn't stand by the PS2.  They just let people go out and buy a replacement.  And people did.  I know quite a few people who bought two PS2s over the last five or six years because their first one broke out of warranty.

[Glaine]

I bet you next time they will test it properly and not want to put their customers through hell and waste their own time and money getting it right after the fact.

O wow. This strikes me as comedy gold, because MS has been doing just this with each new OS release, in my opinion. Why else did XP have a error report button on all of it's crashed windows. Thats always said to me - "Hey, stuff crashed, but would you mind writing an error report? Cuz even though this is a finished product, you are technically beta testing it for us. " - even if I'm exagerating.

That dulls in comparison to having an expensive console just brick on you, though. I'm glad they've got that fixed now. MS is good stuff - a few years after release, when they finish making their products.

[SavannahLion]

also, this is pretty interesting

http://www.gamingbob.com/2007/08/23/bioshock-installs-rootkit-including-demo/

So I guess its not a rootkit, its a windows service that lets securom work when the user doesn't have admin rights.  It's still annoying, but no where near as bad.  Of course you could always just install the Steam version of the game and not have to worry about all of that copy protection stuff.

Oh ugh. I was really looking forward to Bioshock too. I guess I'll wait until the hack comes out.

I'm of the camp that most software, especially games, really have no need to fiddle with basic functionality of your standard PC, much less require (as some users report) you to disable both your fire wall or AVS to either complete the install or even function.

And no, I'm not getting the Steam version.

[RayB]

I just tried the demo through Steam and it DOES NOT WORK for me. My video card is a 9800 Pro, which does not support 3.0 shaders. I figured even so, I could turn all sorts of options off, and set qualities to LOW, but nope. I don't even get a mouse cursor in the menus. In the game, I see the beginning in a plane, then the screen goes black, and he's in the water (still black). I can see a ring of fire and smoke, but that's it. Everything else is black, with glitchy artifacts everywhere. OH WELL! No Bioshock for me.... :-(

[AtomSmasher]

I just tried the demo through Steam and it DOES NOT WORK for me. My video card is a 9800 Pro, which does not support 3.0 shaders. I figured even so, I could turn all sorts of options off, and set qualities to LOW, but nope. I don't even get a mouse cursor in the menus. In the game, I see the beginning in a plane, then the screen goes black, and he's in the water (still black). I can see a ring of fire and smoke, but that's it. Everything else is black, with glitchy artifacts everywhere. OH WELL! No Bioshock for me.... :-(

Have you tried using the workaround/hack that lets older video cards play it?  Last I heard its still very buggy, but the game is playable.  Mr.C linked to a page with the info on it a while back.

[crashwg]

I went through hell trying to install this game last night (drinkin me grog) but my GeForce 8300 GS 128 mb couldn't handle it even with all the GFX settings off.

Moral of the story is you'll need a beefy graphics card if you want to play this game.

[patrickl]

I can't get that silly song out of my head

[AtomSmasher]

I went through hell trying to install this game last night (drinkin me grog) but my GeForce 8300 GS 128 mb couldn't handle it even with all the GFX settings off.

Moral of the story is you'll need a beefy graphics card if you want to play this game.

At first I thought that was very odd because I assumed my video card was less powerful then yours (since I thought all 8XXX cards were), but I've never heard of the 8300 GS and looking online I can't even find any reviews for it, only specifications.  It looks like that card isn't made for gaming, but is just a cheap card to put into workstations.  A quick check on ebay (the only place I could find to buy the card) and it looks like they sell for around $10.  I bet you'll have no problem playing the game if you spent $40-50 on a better video card.

[crashwg]

good if

At first I thought that was very odd because I assumed my video card was less powerful then yours (since I thought all 8XXX cards were), but I've never heard of the 8300 GS and looking online I can't even find any reviews for it, only specifications.  It looks like that card isn't made for gaming, but is just a cheap card to put into workstations.  A quick check on ebay (the only place I could find to buy the card) and it looks like they sell for around $10.  I bet you'll have no problem playing the game if you spent $40-50 on a better video card.

Good information!  Makes sense about the not being such a good card.  Was the cheapest option on my new computer.  Picked it because the only thing I play on my computer is Diablo II.  Maybe in a little while when the $500 cards of today are $150, I'll try out Bioshock.  Until then it's not a big deal.  I'm way past the "I've got to have the latest and greatest" period of my life...

[Glaine]

I'm way past the "I've got to have the latest and greatest" period of my life...

Me too! Whats lame is no matter how many times I explain that waiting to buy the current system till the next system comes out allows me to buy most of the good games of their favorite system for less than they paid for just the system, they roll their eyes. That, and it oddly feels cooler when it's not trendy anymore, probably because no one can say you are just playing it because it's current. It's the gotta-have-it generation and anyone with patience can save a load.

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