Mr. Asterik (aka Barry Bonds) breaks the record

[ChadTower]

Cheating on the "public" is entirely different than cheating on your peers.  The old players hate him mostly because they couldn't do what he did - no steroids.  His peers won't talk because they did it too.  And given the results anyone who says that in his shoes they wouldn't have done it is a liar.

[Texasmame]

  Bonds*

Thank you, drive thru.

[Guaranos]

As far as Barry and steroids go, I'm split on it. I guess I'm not as hyped up on the steroids = cheating thing. Is it because steroids allow you to improve muscle mass more than you could naturally? If so, what other unnatural improvements should be outlawed in baseball? Lasik? Tommy John surgery? Doesn't weight lifting in general increase your body mass to an unnatural state? If you want asteriks next to names, you could find reasons for anyone at any time (pitching records in the dead ball era or back when the mound was 15" high, hitting records pre-1940's back when they used pocketless gloves and the pitcher who threw 90+ was rare). I will say that Bonds cheats in one way, his armor. That arm thing should not be allowed.

Steroids are chemically enhancing, not fixing something that is broken.  Beyond that, and more importantly, they're illegal (except in cases where legit medical conditions warrant a prescription) and dangerous.  As soon as Lasik and TJ surgery become illegal like steroids they should become outlawed in baseball. 

As for the armor, I agree that it gives him an unfair advantage.  I can understand allowing something like that for a couple of months after surgery on the covered body part, but that's about it.

[ChadTower]

Steroids do have recuperative properties and are often used in PT situations to help in the healing process.  The only times I've been on them were after injuries by prescription, most prominently for a spinal injury a few years ago.

How is a pad an unfair advantage?  What is unfair about it?  Does he have special dispensation that no one else has?  Anyone can get that same pad and wear it.  That makes it perfectly fair.

[billf]

How is a pad an unfair advantage?  What is unfair about it?  Does he have special dispensation that no one else has?  Anyone can get that same pad and wear it.  That makes it perfectly fair.

I just heard a discussion on the radio about this article that was posted yesterday regarding Barry's elbow armor.  Here is the article:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797

The author is a "mechanics consultant", whatever that is.  Interesting theory.

[ChadTower]

Man, people will go after anything to minimize this guy's achievements.

What's next?  Rocket shoes we are only noticing now?  Bats made of alien materials that just happen to look like wood?

EDIT:

Similar devices are presently denied to average major leaguers, who must present evidence of injury before receiving an exemption.

Hrm. 

[Justin Z]

Well, Justin Z, thanks for proving my point.  In all of your examples, every player on the field knows what's going to happen before it happens.  Then if it happens, they know what to do next.

Even if this gross generalization were true, the human element would, by definition, make the game unpredictable, thus ruining the very basis of your argument from the start.  That's the problem with absolute statements like the one you've made.  They fall down logically.

Furthermore, not only do five players in the field never know what pitch is coming (2nd, short, pitcher and catcher hopefully do), but no matter how good of an eye you have, you don't know how the ball is going to come off the bat until a significant amount of time has passed.  You'd better be able to figure out what's happening, and react . . .  quickly.  You don't know from the start.

Were baseball played by robots, you might have a point.

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1. Baserunning
(a) Hit and run?
(b) Double steal?
(c) Delayed steal?
-------------

You always steal if you think you're fast enough to make it.

Not a chance.  You steal when you feel the situation calls for it.  You're more likely to send a good runner than a poor one, true.  But my college baseball team's first baseman, who's about 235 pounds and to put it plainly, is slow, had 8 stolen bases last season, which was like third on the team.  Speed has far less to do with it than you want to claim it does.

--------------
2. At the plate
(a) Approach pitches aggressively?
(b) Wait for pitches and try to draw a walk?
(c) Sacrifice bunt?
(d) Drag bunt?
(e) Slash?
---------------

You can't wait out pitches if the pitcher is throwing strikes.  Who cares on the rest of it?  You know a batter is going to bunt before he's on the plate.

No, you can't.  So your strategy has to change.  You would need several cocktail napkins to cover your strategy at the plate from pitch to pitch.

Again bringing up the team I mentioned before, we had a player who would get one strike on him and then had at least ten drag bunts for singles that he executed after taking or swinging and missing the first strike.  There was no way to tell if he was going to do it or not.
---------
As for defense, do you

(a) play in your corners?
(b) play at double play depth?
(c) execute a wheel play?
-----------

You go to where you think the batter might hit it, but either way, you gotta run to wherever the ball is hit if it's in your zone.

I suppose then that wide receivers don't run to where the passer has thrown the ball?  That linebackers don't stop pursuing the option quarterback and start pursuing the pitch man when the ball is lateraled?  That basketball players dribble away from the basket in an effort to drive in and score?  That goalies move their pads out of the way of a shot puck?  Your statement doesn't make sense.

Sorry, but I stand fully by what I said.  There's nothing unpredictable in baseball.

Have you ever seen a team steal home?

[/quote]

[Jouster]

No, that would require that there be nothing else on TV...and my internet would need to be down...and I'd have to be all out of beer...and the batteries to my laptop would need to be dead after my power went out...oh wait, if the power was out I couldn't even watch TV...so no, I've never seen anyone steal home.

Jouster

[DrewKaree]

First, RTS, it's "asteriSK"

Second, shardian and Justin, you guys are getting trolled something fierce.  The only reason it's not smacking you in the face, callin' your momma fat, and pissing on your shoes is that you two are too invested in proving him wrong - which anyone with half a brain and a logical look at the situation can see he's wrong and simply trolling for fun.

Third, this:

Are you sick of Barry Bonds talk by now?

Good. Because this is my Forrest Gump: “… And That’s All I Have to Say About That” entry on the entire “Bonds Saga.”

Let me sum it all up as follows. Barry Bonds career comes in two main “Acts.”

Act I
Barry Bonds was chugging along as an elite 5-tool player, with 30+ HR power in Pittsburgh for years. After moving to San Fran and a more hitter friendly park, his numbers were goosed a bit, and he was cruising easily to a HOF induction on the first ballot.

This act was powered by the following: good bloodlines, being around the major leagues since he was a kid, natural talent, and hard work.

Act II
Barry Bonds saw the admiration and attention that was showered on Sosa and McGwire in the summer of ’98. Bonds knew that both players were mere fractions of what he was. Bonds knew that they were juicing. He was jealous. He was scorned. He was going to do something about it.

Taking a combination of all kinds of stuff (cream, clear, steroids, and HGH) Bonds maniacally transformed himself into the Home Run Cyborg that started busting the charts on production for a player his age.

This act was powered by the following: great chemistry, a burning desire to stick it up a lot of people’s asses, and lots and lots of weight lifting.

I believe that once Bonds set the record 73, and STILL did not get the McGwire “God treatment” from the media, he then set his sights on 756.

I can appreciate the drive that took Bonds to the mountaintop, even though I don't condone the means.

I can recognize the record Bonds now holds, without celebrating it.

For everybody that says Bonds “cheated baseball” or somehow “tarnished” the game, get a life.

This is a sport that has had more work stoppages than a mob-run construction site in Jersey. This is a sport that denied blacks the chance to play for an unconscionably long time. This is a sport of Pete Rose, the Black Sox Scandal, cancelled World Series, and Steve Howe getting 7 chances at striking out his coke addiction. Hell, half the NL East testified to drug use in Federal Court, and got CHEERED the next night on the field while serving no suspension at all.

Bonds has the record. Deal with it. It’s just a number, and he would have still been a Hall of Famer even without the needle.

All that’s left is for the number nerds to squawk about it. So go ahead, squawk away. I’m moving on.

[Justin Z]

Second, shardian and Justin, you guys are getting trolled something fierce.  The only reason it's not smacking you in the face, callin' your momma fat, and pissing on your shoes is that you two are too invested in proving him wrong - which anyone with half a brain and a logical look at the situation can see he's wrong and simply trolling for fun.

Cheers, although on my 15 minute break here at work there was little else better to do.

[DrewKaree]

Justin, just read a few of his posts (view profile, view recent posts).  Evidently it's how he spends his 15 minute breaks too

 

[RTSDaddy2]

Thank you for the grammar lesson Drew....sounds just like my wife (sorry, couldn't resist).   Ain't you glad I isn't a grammar teacher?   

[DrewKaree]

Thank you for the grammar lesson Drew....sounds just like my wife (sorry, couldn't resist).   Ain't you glad I isn't a grammar teacher?   

Then check this out  

It's not a grammar lesson, it's a spelling lesson.

Sheesh, you're in worse shape than I originally thought!

[tommy]

I'd rather have the guy misspell a few words and have something worth while to say then have a guy spell every damn word right and couldn't care less about what he has to say.

[shardian]

First, RTS, it's "asteriSK"

That was driving me crazy, but I resisted the urge.

Second, shardian and Justin, you guys are getting trolled something fierce.  The only reason it's not smacking you in the face, callin' your momma fat, and pissing on your shoes is that you two are too invested in proving him wrong - which anyone with half a brain and a logical look at the situation can see he's wrong and simply trolling for fun.

I have given up on him. I'll take 20 Chad Tower's over a guy like him any day of the week. It is a personality fault of mine that I just can't let it go if I hear someone say something ridiculously wrong. Trust me, I've been in the doghouse at home on more than one occasion for it, even though I KNOW beforehand it is a lose-lose situation.

[DrewKaree]

I'd rather have the guy misspell a few words and have something worth while to say then have a guy spell every damn word right and couldn't care less about what he has to say.

Your spelling isn't a reliable indication of the rest of your posts.  In fact, your spelling points to the inverse of your preference.

Try to stay out of conversations between friends.  It's no fun tooling on you when you jump the gun yourself, and only serves to drain more meaning from threads when we've gotta speak s-l-o-w-e-r for you to be able to keep up.

Weren't you whining about "being followed"?  Cheffo, hit him with a "Pot, Kettle, Dolt".

[arcadefever]

What's next?  Rocket shoes we are only noticing now?  Bats made of alien materials that just happen to look like wood?

 

[RTSDaddy2]

Thank you for the grammar lesson Drew....sounds just like my wife (sorry, couldn't resist).   Ain't you glad I isn't a grammar teacher?  

Then check this out  

It's not a grammar lesson, it's a spelling lesson.

Sheesh, you're in worse shape than I originally thought!

Touche - I'd put the little squiggle over the "e" in that word, but I can't find it.

And Sharidan...don't ever resist the urge.  I get called on crap like this at home all the time.

If I haven't shared this, an example of how nutty this professor is (boy is this one off thread): during the Christmas rush a couple of years ago, my wife and I were up early heading to Target to do shopping.  The lot was pretty well packed and I looked at her and, without thinking, said "In order to get close, we're going to have to park far away."  Hey, whadda you want - it was 6 AM and I hadn't had no coffe yet! 

Anyway, carry on....

[DrewKaree]

The lot was pretty well packed and I looked at her and, without thinking, said "In order to get close, we're going to have to park far away." 

I came to a fork in the road, so I took it!

Wherever you go, there you are.