Cockpit Style Bartop using an Xbox

[GlennM]

Hey guys, I am pondering building a bar top, and I want it to look like a cockpit from a Gundam or Veritech.  My current plans are to use a modded xbox for running all the emulators.  I want to have it designed to be able to accept multiple control decks.  The primary controller will be designed to accept one or two players.  The way I want to lay the controls out is to have the deck layed out in a shallow V patter, so that each player looks at the screen from a slight angle.  The other control deck will be a flight setup, this will be used for Mech Assault and similiar games.  I will also have a third deck that will simply be Xbox controller ports.   Each of these will fit into a box on the bartop, the box will also contain two controller ports that when you slide the control decks into, it plugs them in.  That way it remains modular.

I would like to fit a 17" screen, however I may settle for a 15" to save some room.  I was originally planning on using an LCD, but I realized I may be better with a CRT because of the fact that players may be viewing from an angle, and CRT's have less distortion that way.

Anyways, I will need help with Sideart, and blue print design, and ways to convince my wife it is a good idea.  But does this overall seem feasable, or am I just wasting my time.

Later,
Glenn

[BobA]

I think you are going to have to sketch up or find a picture of something to refer to before anyone can help you with art.   I am having problems picturing what you want for multiple players on a bartop.

Lets start with this.   Is this a gundam ccockpit?

[GlennM]

I haven't seen one styled quite like that before, let's see if I can find some example stuff, I have made a few sketches, but the scanner has been iffy lately.

Actually that looks like a Veritech cockpit. 

Alright, here is a scan of my sketch, I mean obviously it isn't supposed to be an exact replica, but from the inside, I want the feel you are piloting, on the outside, I figure just use some Gundam or Robotech artwork.  The Marquee, I haven't thought of too much yet.  Trying to decide between a normal style marquee or perhaps one that looks like sensors.

Here is a concept art I found, unfortunately all the art and such seems to be directed towards the pilot.


Here is my sketch, note the angles and such are all winged, I haven't messed too much with actual dimensions.  Can you see what I mean by a shallow V shape now?

(Holy cow it actually scanned)

I was leaning towards 6 buttons per player, with a start and back (coin?) button as well.
The 4 buttons on the top would be for functions, like save states and exiting the games (basically simulating the joystick clicks)

Now, I haven't sketched the flight stick layout yet, but it will be built using an old Wingman joystick I have laying around, I think I can mod it to work.

Found a few better pictures, I am leaning towards the first two as a design I would like, the later is just something else I found.



The bottom of this picture seems to be closest to what I was thinking of.




Later,
Glenn

[BobA]

I don't think the 2 player control panel will fit as per your sketch.  Take a look at leapinlew's 2 player bartop in this thread

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=65651.0

[GlennM]

So it'll probably have to be a bit bigger than I intended, but I don't see why it won't work.
I think by angling the controls you can fit them closer together (presuming you don't run out of inside space)

[javeryh]

A bartop sounds like it is going to be huge..... and if so then maybe you should build something like Coder did except with a Gundam themed interior.  He got wife approval!   I will be following your progress - I don't think I've seen a bartop with angled controls like that. 

[GlennM]

Coder?  Must have missed that thread, off to dig.

Oh, the Xccelerator, very cool.
I don't think it will be that large, nor larger than the leapinlew's two player, hopefully smaller, but I doubt it.

I don't have wife approval yet, working on it.  I was told my SNES must be finished first, which is a problem since it is overheating.

[BobA]

So it'll probably have to be a bit bigger than I intended, but I don't see why it won't work.
I think by angling the controls you can fit them closer together (presuming you don't run out of inside space)

I think you will have to still let a bit of CP go past the side of the cab on each side like Leapinlews cab even with the angle.   Easiest way to find out is to mock up the cp and see how wide it has to be.

[GlennM]

Oh, I had presumed I would, I just wasn't sure how much.

I may break out some cardboard and build a sample control panel.  I am more thinking about how I am gonna fit everything in there while keeping temps low, as xboxes already tend to overheat, first thing is to strip the case, then I'll be installing mass amounts of fans.  Now, do you think having a modular control panel will be possible, also here is a picture of the joystick I would like to modify for the secondary control panel, and MechAssault and Robotech.

[BobA]

A modular cp would be possible but would be more difficult to fabricate with the angles you are going to use.  It is hard to just get square cut panel pieces to line up.  You might want to make the angled portions static and only switch out parts that are cut on the square.

[leapinlew]

I am more thinking about how I am gonna fit everything in there while keeping temps low, as xboxes already tend to overheat, first thing is to strip the case, then I'll be installing mass amounts of fans. 

The last fan I used was this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185004

It's pricey, but worth it. It's silent and pushes a good amount of air for a bartop. I ordered more of these for future projects.

[GlennM]

I've heard good things about that fan from case modders

Might I ask your opinion about my CP layout, is it feasible?  Is it a good idea?  I figured the angle will allow people to sit more comfortably, so it made sense.

Also I tested MAMEoX out on my xbox, it runs most of the games I wanted, and is very skinnable.  Some games only ran a couple times, and now they don't run at all anymore though, I am going to play with it more and see what's up with that.

[leapinlew]

Might I ask your opinion about my CP layout, is it feasible?  Is it a good idea?  I figured the angle will allow people to sit more comfortably, so it made sense.

Also I tested MAMEoX out on my xbox, it runs most of the games I wanted, and is very skinnable.  Some games only ran a couple times, and now they don't run at all anymore though, I am going to play with it more and see what's up with that.

First off - I really dig all the art-concept drawings.

As for the CP...

• How much space are you gaining by angling them? How big would a non-angled CP be? I've found that I need at least 25" to make a comfortable 2 player fighter layout for 2 adults to play fighting games.
• I've never played on an angled CP like that and my instincts tell me it wouldn't be very comfortable, natural or familiar. But I'd have to check it out to see for myself to know for sure.
  
• Structural integrity: When playing games, I put a lot of weight on the CP. How do you intend to strengthen this design?
• In your concept drawing, I see you show a very clear front view of the monitor, while in the side view it looks like the marquee area will hide some of the screen. I made this mistake on my first bartop - it's definitely something to look out for.

If the X-box does all you need it to - I'm sure it'll be fine. I use computers, but I have access to lots of machines that would be junk otherwise.

[stuckpixel]

Hmm. Angled CP, interesting idea. Have you thought about doing more of a /\ Shape instead of a V?

Guess it all depends on the look you are going for, but I think having more of an A angle would be more comfortable (align with the natural positioning of the hands better) than a V angle.

Be curious to see how this one unfolds, neat idea!

[GlennM]

The V angle is to better suite two players, for one player an A angle would be better.

[stuckpixel]

Cool. Just throwin' ideas out. Any idea what controls you're looking to put on this guy?

[GlennM]

2x Players
8-Way Joystick
6x Push Buttons
2x Player Buttons
2x Coins Buttons
4x buttons for menu navigation  Exiting, Screen Shots, Save States, etc

[GlennM]

My wife gave me permission so long as I sort my gaming stuff and discard all the stuff I don't use, and that sounds like a deal, so bye bye old consoles and such (Though I'll be keeping many of the accessories)  You'll probably see stuff for sale shortly, probably in trade for parts for this.

Anyways, here is what I have been considering for art.

Primary thought for side art.  I need a higher res version without the watermark though, if you can help, I would love you.


Here is another consideration, otherwise this will be used somewhere else on the cabinet.  I have a 1600x1200 res version of this file that should do.


These will most likely be used on the control panel, I want something cool, but not distracting.





If you can help with the art and such, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Glenn

[BobA]

Just adding to the info here.  Found an actual gundam pod arcade game that looks like this on the inside.

I found that most of the gundam images seem to be for wallpaper and PC display so are very low rez.  I can see why there are many images but hard to find one that can be enlarged and still have detail.

[Loki]

I posted these some time ago




http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63181.0

Here some more:
http://www.mainichi-msn.co.jp/entertainment/game/amshow/graph/pickup1/index.html

This one would be awesome to make..
Would be nice if you like flight or space sims... onlly a project like this would be huge and expensive ^^;

[GlennM]

Yeah, I've seen those, any search for Gundam Game and Arcade will turn those up.  While vastly cool, it is a bit out of the budget for this project.  On a different note, I have started work on skinning the various programs for my Xbox, I am trying to get them all to match in style and such.  I am using the I Want You poster as my loading screen, so it may not make it onto the cabinet, unless I go with something else that is.  After I get an acceptable skin for the dashboard, I get to start skinning the various emulators and such that will be launchable through the xbox, obviously somethings won't be skinned depending on the amount of skill required, but I will be doing my best to ensure it all looks nice and cohesive.  I will also be selecting a soundtrack made up of songs from Robotech and other shows of the style, prefereably all instrumental though, I think each emulator will have it's own song, while the dashboard will have a smattering of them.

Here is a preview of the skin at this point, note that it is simply a modification of another skin and I need to replace the bordergraphics still with something more mecha.

[BobA]

Nice start on the skinning.  The whole physical construction thing can get out of hand quite easily.

Does anyone remember about 3 years ago someone built a lifesize mech for his backyard? I think it was sort of a mech playhouse.

[GlennM]

Well, building costs cash, skinning only costs me time   So it is a good place to start while I wait for a few things, like the xbox, the guy keeps forgetting to bring it in.  But that buys me time to find a LCD and suitable speakers.

There is a lot to do still with the skinning process, but it is going well.

[theCoder]

Very cool idea.  XBox's are small and don't need a lot of cooling.  You can also pick one up for a lot less than a comparable laptop.  You mentioned heating problems?  Are you talking about an original Xbox or 360?  I'm using a original, left the top on, and put a 80 mm fan next to the right side.  No heat problems yet.

If this is just going to be a Mame machine, I'd recommend going with a PC.  You have many more software/configuration options.  The front end on Mameox is not the greatest.  If it were me, I'd build it with a fixed two player Mame type layout (joysticks & buttons).  I'd also route the two remaining JS ports out the back, allowing you to plug in real handheld controllers for games that just can't be played with an arcade type setup.  I picked up a couple of cable extenders off eBay for the Xcelerator project for $8.00 delivered.  It would be nice if you could find some room inside, and put a door on it to store the external controllers.

On my Partybox bartop project, keeping the weight down was one of my biggest design criteria.    You might want to consider ways to cut out weight as you go along. 

You might also want to come up with a way to switch the video between the internal TV and an external TV.  This way, it would be standalone as well as big-screen-able, when you show up at a party.

Good luck with this project.  I will definitely be watching your progress.

[GlennM]

While I wanted to use it primarily for MAME, I am having a hard time with certain games that I really want to run, not running, so I have to play with some of the other emulators and see if I can get them to run properly.  For the curious, here are the games that are currently plaguing me.
Armored Warriors
Cybots
MS Gundam EX Revue
MS Gundam Final Shoot (NOOOO, I love this game!!)  This game won't even show on the list, I checked for it in the catver.ini, and added it to the other file in that directory, still nothing.
Guantlet . . . You would think this would be an easy one.
Anyways, if any of the Xbox emulators can play these, or they need special settings, let me know.

I decided to ditch modular CP's, the reason is it saves me about 6" or so of space as I can bring the xbox closes to the front.  Now, here is a question, if I hook up four controller extensions and bring them out the front, and have the first two have arcade controls hotwired onto the cable, and then hook another controller onto it what will happen?  I figure if the system is recieving no input from one of the controllers it will ignore it's presence, however I am not sure about that.

Also, like I said, the Xbox is free, though if I get the PC parts for it down the line I may shift them out, but I like the idea of being able to play Robotech Battlecry and Invasion, as well as various other mechy games with it, and whatever else I feel like for that matter.

I have no interest in ever hooking it up to a real TV, I have another Xbox for that, as well as my SNES-PC which is also capable of doing all the Xbox can and more, but it's job is to largely look pretty when it runs games (I just started painting it today, it didn't come out as nice and clean as I had hoped, but, I am getting really ticked at it, so am aiming for good enough at this point)

I skinned up Mameox a bit, looks better, and I have been playing with my Xbox skin as well.  I am slowly working on making all the emulators match in theme, they also will each be getting their own soundtrack as well.

[theCoder]

I can't help you on the Mameox set-up.  It supports the 5-10 games I like (without the sound on Donkey Kong unfortunately), so I'm good.  Too bad there has not been an update since Mame version. .84.

Regarding the controllers.  Given the size of your monitor, you will probably never have more than 2 people playing at a time.  If that is the case, you could devote 2 ports for hard-wired hacked controllers, and 2 ports for the external removable controllers.  Anything else is going to be a lot more work. 

Got any pics of your skins?

[GlennM]

Well, most of them look crappy right now, as I haven't manually adjusted many of the settings yet, like font color and such, so a lot of it currently clashes.  I see you're point about the controllers though, I had never tried to use my controller in any other controller port though, therefore didn't realize the Xbox doesn't care what port it is in.

Hopefully I can get all my MAME stuff figured out before I get all the parts together.

Thankfully I haven't had any issues with my other emulators at all, they all seem to work spot on for anything I am interested in playing.

I'll try ant take some picture of what the skins look like off my TV, as I have no way to capture them on a PC.

[GlennM]

I think I got a name for the System
"Death from Above"
Points to the first person to recognize this term.

[BobA]

I doubt if MS Gundam Ex or Final Shoot or Cyberbots will run on an XBOX.  They are 1993 to 1995 vintage and typically will take a much more powerful PC to run.  Gauntlet should run but I am not familiar with the XBOX version of MAME so cannot be sure.   They types of games you are building this bartop for most definately need a more powerful PC then the XBOX.

[GlennM]

Well, I don't have an extra PC, so I will be doing what I can with this Xbox, if it can't run them, I suppose there is nothing I can do about it.

I can always insert a PC at a later date when I have the money to do so, so it isn't like the work will be going to waste if I upgrade later.  Not to mention a PC doesn't have the Xbox games I'd like to play with this either, which I really haven't mentioned much because of the fact that they obviously work.  Also, many of the games I want to play, work just fine, I am just mentioning those I would like to play but can't yet.

Anyways, back onto topic, here is a rough idea of what the control panel may look like, I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff yet, so this is a pretty rough example.
I whipped this up with Autorealm (pretty useful basic CAD program actually), I also am unsure about the button sizes, so this may or may not work.



EDIT:  Here are some photos of my custom skin in action, I am not yet certain how else to soup it up, though I have considered a back ground video instad of a static wallpaper, but I doubt I will go that route, that would be a pain in the arse.



In this one you can see the RDF logo appears when there is no icon for something.

[BobA]

Try CP Sketcher and you will get exact control sizes and even the under cp view for construction. Custom CP shapes are also supported.

Link so CP Sketcher

[SithMaster]

First the xbox skin is a pic from the role playing game core book right?  very familiar since i was going to use it for my marquee from my vert cab.

death from above is from warhammer 40k specifically the space marine assault squad or is it from something else?

If you can get a dreamcast and gundam side story thatd make for a good cab.  or since you have the box in there steel battalion.

id have the cp angled in.  so it makes it seem like it wraps around the player.  and if you need better pics i can try and grab some off my robotech dvds for you since im going to need some too eventually.

[GlennM]

I have the Robotech DVD's actually, so I can use those for screen grabs.

Anyways, that wallpaper is similiar to those of the Palladium books, but not the same (it is sitting on my lap right now )

Wrong about Death from Above.  Though the term is from a classic wargame, that is the wrong one.  I'll give another hint, this game had many of it's mechs designed from Robotech and other popular Japanese Anime mech designs of the 80's.

The CP is wrapped out to accommodate two players, not one.  One player can use either joystick, or else use an Xbox pad if they so choose.

CP sketcher does not support the angled CP like I have designed, but I can use it to steal dimensions, thanks for the link.

[GlennM]

Well I found a solution to those fighting games that don't work, I will simply run Mugen on the box as well, it will allow me to blend many games that otherwise would be impossible, so I am currently packaging together all the characters I would want, and putting them into idividualized Mugen packages, that way I can have a Gundam game, normal Fighter game etc.