I have many questions about my SORCERER pin

[vintagegamer]

I think the biggest question I have right now is what is the temp I need to be at to do this- from there I can choose the iron I guess.  Chad mentioned earlier that 900 is too high- so where do I need to be?

Thanks!

VINTAGEGAMER

[ChadTower]

Varies by what you're soldering, really, but most work is going to be in the mid-range between those two temperatures.  The problem with most bottom range irons is that you can't control the temperature at all.

[vintagegamer]

Thanks PJ, my hope wasn't so much to be cheap, I just wanted to find something that I could buy in a store that would satisfy my needs for now.  But going on the feedback from the others, the closest thing that would meet all necessary requirements that I could buy in a store is the Radio Shack one with the digital readout (see link above, it was $62).

[ChadTower]

If you absolutely have to have one same day, and all you have around is a Radio Shack, this one isn't a complete waste.  You could get done what you want and not look back when it's time to upgrade.

[shardian]

If you absolutely have to have one same day, and all you have around is a Radio Shack, this one isn't a complete waste.  You could get done what you want and not look back when it's time to upgrade.

I always end up burning myself with the el-cheapo soldering irons. If you use one of those, make for darn sure you keep your pinky and ring finger safely and securely tucked down. Soldering iron burns SUCK!!!

[vintagegamer]

Closest things to me are Radio Shack and Home Depot, so yeah my choices are kind of limited..  unless of course you guys know of another shop that would carry irons.

My biggest gripe is right now I'm waiting on:

replacement speech card (which I might not even need now)
replacement pinballs (since the others are rusted)
Novus 2
new bumpers

I basically shouldn't be playing the game w/o any of them, but of course I have to sit and wait for the USPOS before I can do anything further.  So, if I could at least fix the main cpu in the meantime, it would be great w/o having to wait helplessly for another box to show up.

[ChadTower]

Welcome to the hobby.  That's how it works, unfortunately.  You'll learn to bundle your orders together and anticipate future needs on certain items so you can save on shipping. 

[vintagegamer]

 

Easy way to check the speakers:  attach them to something else.  They're no different from other regular speakers.

I used a speaker and a wire I had lying around, and it basically creates the same hum as the other speakers in the machine.  Looks like I'm pulling the main board.  And I'm sure I'll break something else on the way out, but it looks like I have no alternative.  Wish me luck.

[ChadTower]

BTW - I have one of these and it really helps my PCB work.  Cheap and effective.

[RichSorr]

BTW - I have one of these and it really helps my PCB work.  Cheap and effective.

I had something similar, but it also had a group of LED lights on it. Super helpful when working in tight spots inside a game and if you're out in the field

[vintagegamer]

Today's updates: in the mail came my new flipper rubbers, pinballs, novus 2, and bulbs- JOY!  I got the playfield cleaned up and installed the new balls and rubbers.  They rock- she's looking pretty again!

Sometime in the near future I'll be picking up a soldering iron and pulling the CPU.  To be honest I'm terrified of the job, simply over the concern of breaking something else in the process- the game works great minus the sound now, I'm just hoping I don't go further backwords.

In the meantime I do have another question- the left set of bumpers above the right flipper sometimes "bump" an extra amount after the ball makes contact and leaves them..  Is there anything I can do (ie oil) to help with this issue?  Or is the function all electrical?

VINTAGEGAMER

[vintagegamer]

Adjust the switch under the bumper that's firing too much.

Please provide steps if you don't mind, since I've never done this before-  glad to hear it can be corrected though!

[ChadTower]

Please provide steps if you don't mind, since I've never done this before-  glad to hear it can be corrected though!

His cause is solid - switch needs adjusting.  This is the type of thing you learn by reading the marvin3m guide.  Read it a couple of times, the whole thing, and maybe read the guides for other system pins.  I used to keep a printout in the bathroom.  It's a ten minute operation at the most and you're going to want to shop this pin out anyway, which is totally laid out in those guides.

BTW, Rich, mine has LEDs too... they're not a flashlight, but hey, I paid $15 shipped for the thing and usually bring a clamp light with me anyway.

[vintagegamer]

I'll check it out again Chad, thx-  I read it a few times in the past, but I kept seeming to get lost b/c there wasn't a clear path (imo) to the system 9 game section.  I'll look over it once more tho.

VINTAGEGAMER

[ChadTower]

Adjusting switches, swapping coil sleeves, rebuilding flippers, etc are not unique to Sys9 and can be picked from any of the other sections.  Sys7 is a pretty comprehensive guide, try that.

Just looked, the guide you want is Sys11, the Sys9 stuff is in there because they are very very very similar.  Your game is even listed in the Sys11 section.

[vintagegamer]

I would like to try the business card clean process that Marvin 3M recommends first- does this take place on the components UNDER the playfield?  The place where the trouble switch is located is on the left bumper piece under the Sorcerer's "beard" in the below pic.

[ChadTower]

Pretty much all of the switches are under the playfield.

[Kevin Mullins]

Yup.... and if you haven't taken a good look under the playfield yet..... prepare yourself.
 

Adjusting the switches is generally a matter of tweaking the leafs one way or another.
Sounds to me like you have one sticking closed when it should release.
Usually (in your case the bumper) you can activate the bumper and while it's stuck you can open or close the leaf switches to figure out which one needs to be adjusted.

Edit: Just looked at your pic again and realized what you were talking about. ( I was thinking about POP bumpers for some reason)

Those bumpers need adjusted from the top side of the playfield. You'll see the leaf switch right behind the rubber. The gap is probably too close. So bending the switch a tad to make the gap between the contacts wider should do it for ya. When the ball hits the rubber, the switch should make contact. When the rubber rebounds due to it's natural elasticity, the switch should open and remain open. The contact could be a bit dirty too from arcing, so try the business card trick and slide it in between the two contacts a couple times.

[vintagegamer]

And............... the PCB IS OUT!  The pics show it before removal, and the following 2 show the audio connectors.  I can take more pics, but was having probs getting a clear pic of the back of the board- the one that you DO see shows some char around where the "left" connector hooks up on the front.  So, tell me where to go from here..  (reminder: troubleshooting sound issue)

[ChadTower]

That looks more like flux from previous rework than char.  If you solder a joint like that it leaves behind some shiny and slightly brown stuff - that's the flux inside the new solder.  A good worker will clean that off with a swipe of alcohol afterwards but not everyone does.

[vintagegamer]

I noticed some other spots that looked like repairs too Chad, so I'm wondering if I should just look around for a PCB in better shape?  I was told by someone that it's hard to find boards for this game that haven't already had extensive repairs tho.

[ChadTower]

There's nothing wrong with a board that has had work if the work was done well.  Most boards by now have had work. 

[Kevin Mullins]

I agree .... kinda hard to tell from the pic, but it looks more like leftover flux. Can you lightly rub it off with your finger? I would still go ahead and resolder those points just to help us eliminate some troubleshooting points. Just heat them up to the point of beginning to molten(?) and dab some new solder on them.

Also, there is a smaller IC on the top side of the board that appears to be in a socket near the taller black heatsink near those connectors..... maybe it's just the angle of the pic.... but it appears to be slightly pulled out. (?) Re-seat it to be sure.

And NO.... I doubt you'll ever fnd a replacement board that hasn't had repairs done to it already. That's just the nature of the beast with ANY older game equipment.

[ChadTower]

Whatever is attached to that heat sink is one of the things that was replaced.  You can tell from the underside pic, the sink prongs are visible.

[vintagegamer]

Do I need to take better pics for anyone of anything specific?  I appreciate you guys looking at this for me.

Also, I noticed that only 5 screws were holding the board in place..  Could there be grounding issues preventing the sound from working?  Just thinking out loud-

[Kevin Mullins]

Also, I noticed that only 5 screws were holding the board in place.. 

Ugh !! .... I can't stand techs or anyone in general that does that. (pet-peeve of mine)

I highly doubt it's a grounding issue from the screw mounts. Those should have all the grounds through the wiring harness.

[vintagegamer]

Nope, I've never heard any sound come out of the game in the time I've had it-  I spoke also with "beaver" on the rec.games.pinball forum, and he seems to think that if the speech card has probs, then I won't get any sound at all.

I am going to wait for the speech card to arrive in the mail, and then try the board with that connected to it before going any further.  I'll keep everyone posted.  Thanks again!

[vintagegamer]

Hmmm...  guys I think I may have found another clue on my no sound issue tonight..

I decided to put the board back in the machine, because 'a' I had the time, and 'b' I was afraid I'd forget something if I waited longer, and something staring me right in the face came to my attention...  Remember when I was asking everyone how to find the S/N of this machine?  Well, while putting the PCB back in, I noticed the infamous Sesame Street "One Of These Things Is Not Like The Other"...   the model # on the PCB is 1916, when all the others are 532..  Upon checking the following site, it appears the PCB is from "Strike Zone SHUFFLE ALLEY" (not even a pin!!!), and the sound configuration is a bit different:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:Cl0ea6ViByQJ:terminus.litz.org/wms-roms.html+williams+pinball+model+532&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

http://www.gameroomwarehouse.com/arcade/strike_zone.html

So my next question is, would sound even work with this thing in its current configuration?  The link above shows it's a System 9 board, BUT the music/speech configuration appears to be different.. Have I just made this mystery brighter or darker?

Awaiting further instruction...

VINTAGEGAMER

[ChadTower]

So check the manual for proper dip settings and verify the roms.

[vintagegamer]

Well, the speech card arrived today from Canada, and I installed it- once again I can hear the
volume going up and down when I turn the volume pot on both the speech card
and inside under the playfield, but still no sounds.  I also tried pushing
the sound test button with the new speech card in, and I don't hear
anything.

Anything else anyone can think it might be before I have to pull the PCB out
again?  It really seems like it has to be something stupid at this point- if
the speakers were blown, I don't think I'd hear the volume going up and
down, right?

VINTAGEGAMER

[shardian]

Well, the speech card arrived today from Canada, and I installed it- once again I can hear the
volume going up and down when I turn the volume pot on both the speech card
and inside under the playfield, but still no sounds.  I also tried pushing
the sound test button with the new speech card in, and I don't hear
anything.

Anything else anyone can think it might be before I have to pull the PCB out
again?  It really seems like it has to be something stupid at this point- if
the speakers were blown, I don't think I'd hear the volume going up and
down, right?

VINTAGEGAMER

Have you tried replacing the speakers? have you done continuity testing on the speaker wiring, check and reflow connectors, etc? This may have been asked before in this thread, but I really didn't feel like looking.

[vintagegamer]

I tried hooking up another speaker to the existing one in the back panel "loosely"- specifically held a wire where the contacts hit the other speaker and got the same static/hiss.  I didn't cut the wire and splice to a new speaker tho.

It just seems odd that I would hear everything but the sounds.  If something were wrong on the board with the sound, would I still hear static/hum?

[Kevin Mullins]

If something were wrong on the board with the sound, would I still hear static/hum?

Yes .... what that means is that both your speakers and the amplifier are working.... you are simply not getting the sound samples from the processor side of things.

Have you gently pulled all the socketed chips in the general area of the sound amplifier and speaker connectors and re-seated them in this pic?

[vintagegamer]

Thanks Kevin-

I will admit after I dropped the one ROM that belonged in the speech card (still haven't been able to locate it in the machine), I was hesitant to reseat anything else until I took the PCB out.  Then I had the PCB out, but to be honest didn't remember to do this before putting it back in the machine-  I will try to do that tomorrow night and see what happens. 

Thanks again to all for your ongoing support with me on this- there is nothing worse than KNOWING something dumb is keeping you from success..  Stay tuned!

PS: can someone point out where on the above pic the sound amplifier is?  Just for curiosity's sake?

[vintagegamer]

OK..  I guess I know when to accept defeat.   I came home from work, took out ALL of the chips, 1 at a time and reseated them, and checked each one before reseating.  They all felt like they hadn't been removed in a long time-  The only chip that appeared to have any "damage" was the one shown just above the battery holder, located between SR11 and SR12 on the PCB.  It's missing one pin.  I couldn't find anything in my schematic that indicated that circuit had anything to do with the sound, but who knows what that could be impacting.



It looks like I'll be taking the hit on buying another PCB.  I just absolutely hate knowing in the back of my head that something stupid is preventing this thing from making sound again.  I do however thank everyone for their input, and if you have any other suggestions or thoughts going off of what I provided above, I'm all ears.  DAM I hate being beaten.

VINTAGEGAMER

[vintagegamer]

I got to pop the cap off of this yesterday and yes Kevin you were right on the money: the contacts were too close together, and I actually know why- the ball had managed to get itself in there a couple weeks ago and I had to finnagle stuff around to get it back out.  The result in the ball getting in that area bent up the contacts.  So, I popped the top, bent the contacts apart CAREFULLY, and I also cleaned the contacts with a business card.  Upon putting everything back together, it now only responds when the ball hits it, and only does so ONE TIME..   Joy!   When I saw how this part of the game worked, I have to admit I was totally impressed.   It is simply amazing how much electrical engineering and related physics go into making a game like this work.  Like with a car though, you never really realize that until you "see" what's making the functionality happen right in front of your face.

I also noticed yesterday that when the ball goes up the right side of the playfield and hits the spinner to let the machine know that it should show the letter "R" of Sorcerer as hit/bumped/enabled, it's not doing what it should..   So, you can get the word "SORCERER" lit up 99% but no payoff for getting the last 'R'.  I'm pretty sure it's something within the spinner connection, because for every other part of the game display, the light blinks as it should- it just doesn't register that the ball has hit that spot.  My daughter's bday is in July and we have a party that weekend (duh), so I think I'm going to WAIT to mess with that.  Something about lifting the playfield right now tells me "don't do it".

And in final update news, I found 3 more screws in the cab that should have been in to hold the PCB in place.  I also found the eprom that I dropped from the speech card!  Amen..

Yup.... and if you haven't taken a good look under the playfield yet..... prepare yourself.
 

Adjusting the switches is generally a matter of tweaking the leafs one way or another.
Sounds to me like you have one sticking closed when it should release.
Usually (in your case the bumper) you can activate the bumper and while it's stuck you can open or close the leaf switches to figure out which one needs to be adjusted.

Edit: Just looked at your pic again and realized what you were talking about. ( I was thinking about POP bumpers for some reason)

Those bumpers need adjusted from the top side of the playfield. You'll see the leaf switch right behind the rubber. The gap is probably too close. So bending the switch a tad to make the gap between the contacts wider should do it for ya. When the ball hits the rubber, the switch should make contact. When the rubber rebounds due to it's natural elasticity, the switch should open and remain open. The contact could be a bit dirty too from arcing, so try the business card trick and slide it in between the two contacts a couple times.

[vintagegamer]

I also noticed yesterday that when the ball goes up the right side of the playfield and hits the spinner to let the machine know that it should show the letter "R" of Sorcerer as hit/bumped/enabled, it's not doing what it should..   So, you can get the word "SORCERER" lit up 99% but no payoff for getting the last 'R'.  I'm pretty sure it's something within the spinner connection, because for every other part of the game display, the light blinks as it should- it just doesn't register that the ball has hit that spot.  My daughter's bday is in July and we have a party that weekend (duh), so I think I'm going to WAIT to mess with that.  Something about lifting the playfield right now tells me "don't do it".

Because the desire to have a perfect-working machine becomes an addiction (you guys forgot to mention that), I went ahead and lifted up the playfield to see what was causing the problem above with the final 'R' of SORCERER..   Upon inspection, the spinner piece on top of the playfield is successfully connected to the corresponding rod underneath (thought it may have been disconnected), and I cleaned the contacts on the switch using the business card trick once more.  I put the playfield back down, and with the glass still off, fired up the machine and started a game- I tried spinning the spinner by hand to see if it would register the change, and nothing happened- the 'R' still blinks like it wasn't acted upon.  I also loosened the bracket holding the spinner, and lifted it up a little to see if the spinner was out of adjustment, and still nothing changed..

Does this part normally fail easily in pins?  Or does this sound like something more electrical or even PCB oriented?  I looked at the solder on the connections for that switch, and they appear to be in the same "in tact" shape as the one used for the 'S' spinner (which IS functional).  Sorry I don't have a pic, I was worried about the playfield coming down on my head 

Also, is there a 12-step program for this desire for perfection illness?  I see myself being totally consumed..

[Kevin Mullins]

Sorry I don't have a pic, I was worried about the playfield coming down on my head

There's not a prop rod or groove the playfield slides back into to hold it up?
I'm not sure what the proper setup on that one is, but there should be a way for it to hold itself up.

As for the spinner registering issue...... could be a simple transistor on the main pcb not working to trigger it.
But since you have a new pcb on the way, I'd leave that one alone until you put the new one in.

[SirPeale]

When you're testing, are you putting the machine into test mode, or are you firing up a game?

[vintagegamer]

Sorry I don't have a pic, I was worried about the playfield coming down on my head

There's not a prop rod or groove the playfield slides back into to hold it up?
I'm not sure what the proper setup on that one is, but there should be a way for it to hold itself up.

As for the spinner registering issue...... could be a simple transistor on the main pcb not working to trigger it.
But since you have a new pcb on the way, I'd leave that one alone until you put the new one in.

Thanks Kevin, I was hoping someone else might think along those lines too.  The board might be here today (holding breath).

As for the prop rod, I didn't see one but will look around- is it mounted into a bracked or anything like that?