Horror FPS bartop

[ChadTower]

Time for me to step up and build a game.  I've restored some, mostly pins, but haven't done any scratch builds.  I'm very new to woodworking so I'm starting the design now.

I'm going to build a bartop for Horror based FPS PC games.  Killing Time, Blood, Blood 2, maybe Undying and Systemshock.  Recommendations for other horror FPS games are welcome. 

The PC will end up being determined once the games list is hammered out for sure. 

First decision:  CRT or LCD?  LCD is smaller but used CRTs can be had all day long for free...

Second decision:  control scheme.  Since most FPS games are played by default with arrow keys for movement and mouse for aim/fire, I'm thinking trackball and trigger+button joystick.  Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?



EDIT (the evaluation list is fluid):

Games that are definitely in: Killing time

Games that are out:  Starship Troopers

Games to evaluate:  Killing Time, Blood, Blood 2, Doom (horror levels only), dark forces, starship troopers, Alien Vs Predator, Undying, Systemshock, American McGee's Alice

System requirements: 

• Killing Time  - Win95/98
• Blood 1 & 2  - DOS
• Doom or Doom 95  - DOS or Win95
• Dark Forces  - DOS
• Starship Troopers - XP/Win2ksp4, 2ghz, 512mb, 128mb video card
• Aliens vs Predators - Win98, 200 MHz CPU, 32 MB RAM
• Undying - Win98, 500 Mhz, 256 MB RAM, 32 MB Direct3D vid
• System Shock - DOS
• American McGee's Alice - 400 MHz PowerPC G3 (whatever the x86 equivalent is), 128 MB RAM, ATI Rage 128 or NVIDIA GeForce2

PC is purchased.  Specs here.

[somunny]

Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?

I think this sounds like a good combo but are you planning on using one of the "flight" or "tank" type trigger sticks?  One of those might be a little large for a bartop and end up blocking part of the screen.

[Kaytrim]

Don't forget the DOOM series of games.  They might not have been horror but they sure have the blood and guts.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[johnperkins21]

Don't forget the DOOM series of games.  They might not have been horror but they sure have the blood and guts.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

Absolutely add DOOM. There are still some .wad files out there that are horror based I believe. And technically I'd think Half Life would be horror-esque enough to go on the cab.

And while not exactly an FPS, you would be doing your cab a dis-service by not including Alone in the Dark.

[SithMaster]

Ultimate doom, doom 2, final doom, a custom wad called doom arcade where you have to kill to add time to your clock, half life, dark forces, starship troopers maybe, and avp (first one).

for some reason when i think of the movement i think buttons would be better.

[TOK]

Even though I don't think FPS controls carry over well to any arcade controls, I love your idea for the theme. Think I'd skip the stick and use the layout of the Quake arcade game.

[TOK]

Double post, sorry!

[spacies]

I am new to the whole  FPS thing and I now play Call of Duty online a lot.

This is a bloody great idea for a bartop.
Kinda steps away from the 80s stuff which isnt a bad thing.

Dam, now I want one. 

Tok, good pic. That layout would be perfect.

Dam, now I REALLY want one.   

*closes eyes and backs out of thread*

[leapinlew]

Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?

I think this sounds like a good combo but are you planning on using one of the "flight" or "tank" type trigger sticks?  One of those might be a little large for a bartop and end up blocking part of the screen.

A flight stick is a good idea, but this is going to be hard to pull off without some funky layout. You'll need to be able to switch weapons. Some games had alternate fires. There were items to use, there was inventory to switch between (like medkits, flight packs, etc.), you'll need to be able to run and walk, and duck...

For the most basic FPS (DOOM and Wolfenstein) I used

W- walk forward
S - walk backward
A - strafe left
D - strafe right
Space - use (open doors)

Mouse - look around
Mouse trigger 1 - fire

Thats about as simple as it gets. As the genre advanced, so did the control scheme. In addition to the above layout I would often need:

[ and ] to switch between inventory items
1-10 to select individual weapons or Q for weapon next and E for weapon previous
shift for run
cntrl for duck
mouse 2 - alternate fire

[KenToad]

I've been thinking about making a CP like the one TOK posted for quite a while ... and that is the layout that Ive been dreaming about, except I'd put the trackball on the left side, even though I'm right handed, but I guess I would need to playtest a bit first.

Chad, definitely include Thief 1 and Thief 2, not horror per se, but very scary at times and some of the best single-player FPS'es ever ... oh, and zombies, very stupid zombies.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  Some great comments.  One of the reasons I'm making it limited specifically to horror FPS is to try and cut down on the amount of games.  The more games you add, the harder it is to come up with an effective CP.

So far, I see size of stick being an issue, but since it's not going into an abusive environment we may be able to get away with a strong console stick rather than a foot high arcade stick.

When I think of some of the smaller functions, like duck and run, I am starting to see buttons on the front of the CP... the vertical piece, rather than the horizontal one.  Like inverted shoulder buttons for your thumb. 

Obviously the game selection and CP design are going to be critical here.

[leapinlew]

Not sure if this would work - but I loved Resident Evil. 3rd person horror (with terrible voice overs)

add a gun and you could do House of the Dead

[shardian]

I have to say I am against the idea of a fps bartop. These games just don't translate well at all to arcade controls. There is an Atari FPS arcade game (don't recall the name right off) that uses buttons and a trigger stick. The control is very awkward.

[ChadTower]

Now we're getting too far from the original concept.  There has to be a good control scheme - after all, the control scheme is acceptable on the PC, right?

The only game in that list that is mandatory is Killing Time.  That's the reason I'm building this in the first place.  Maybe what I need to do is build a PC and install all of these games on it.  That way I can evaluate the control schemes and see how many of them can be configured in a common manner without losing any comfort.

Resident Evil and any gun games would be right out, don't fit the theme.

[KenToad]

I guess you're right, Chad, that a lot of FPS games have some unique functions and that would make your idea of a perfect layout a lot more difficult if not impossible to plan. 

Now that you mention it, the Thief games wouldn't work well anyway on a standardized kind of layout, since there is creep, walk and then run, so three different speeds of forward motion, not to mention tons of items to cycle through and ducking while creeping.  It's awkward enough on a keyboard, can't even imagine it with a flight stick or arcade buttons for directional controls. 

[SithMaster]

Well i like the idea of a bartop (better than my original idea for an upright) so my doom cab is going to be easier to carry in case of lan games.

but yeah like the pic tok posted using buttons for movement is better i think since you wont have to move a joystick and its more responsive like a keyboard.  which i think is important if you know a demon is gnawing on your face.

wait why resident evil?  they are horror and there is only one light gun game for it but i dont think the poster meant that one just the normal 3rd person view.

[ChadTower]

Well my purpose here isn't really to build a versatile cab.  The motivation is to build a tight cab for playing Killing time.  I'll throw in other games that use a similar control scheme to take advantage of the hardware, but anything that causes me to deviate from what is best for Killing Time gets DQed.

[KenToad]

Well, actually, now that I've thought about it some more, I don't think it would be a problem to have quite a buttons for multiple functions around.  You would just need to make sure that buttons that need to be pressed together are close enough for your hands to comfortably reach.  Obviously, this would mean fire, jump, and crouch, like in the layout TOK posted and also with an open door and a secondary fire button.  Otherwise, the other buttons could be a little distance away, so you could leave the "home" hand position to do things like weapon and item cycling.

*edit* just read your latest post and that's funny that you're fixated on Killing Time.  I'll have to Google for that, since I've never even heard of that game.

[ChadTower]

*edit* just read your latest post and that's funny that you're fixated on Killing Time.  I'll have to Google for that, since I've never even heard of that game.

Yep... I've never been a big PC gamer nor FPS gamer... but I do love horror games and evil clowns.  You just can't beat rushing through a house, blowing evil clowns away with a shotgun. 

[SithMaster]

I just checked a quick summary of the game (never heard of killing time before) and saw some screenshots.  For controls i would say the trackball for looking, and 4 buttons for movement (forwar, backpedla, and strafing).  The only thing im not sure about in your situation is if you can look up and down (released in 96 so there might be not sure).  Also for weapons i would have a button for each one you can pickup instead of two buttons to cycle through.  It would make for an easier time in game and the cpo would look nice with pics above the buttons or something similar.

But since your mainly about this game id forget about the other stuff (cept doom unless you want something more dedicated) and stick with stuff from this time period.  have you thought of serious sam and the duke nukem series?

but if killing time has a decent multiplayer work in a ethernet port.  i was thinking of doing that for a doom cab (full upright no less) but id make more sense for yours since its much smaller and easier to move around next to a pc that is also running it.

i just found the controls are these right? W = Walk Forward, S = Walk Backward, A = Strafe Left, D = Strafe Right, R = Next Weapon, Spacebar = Use/Open, Mouse Button 1 = Fire Weapon, Use the mouse to navigate and turn with.

Yep... I've never been a big PC gamer nor FPS gamer... but I do love horror games and evil clowns.  You just can't beat rushing through a house, blowing evil clowns away with a shotgun.

and they just keep coming out of the little cars.  the horde...

[ChadTower]

I honestly don't remember the specific key configs, I haven't played it in quite some time.  I'm going to have to build a Win98 box to install this on.  I have an older machine sitting around the basement that should work pretty well for that.

I also don't remember any multiplayer at all but that's not a requirement for me.  I think the last time I played a LAN FPS was 1997.

[Grasshopper]

American McGee's Alice is a fun game, although more about puzzle solving than pure FPS.

[ChadTower]

Ooh.  I like it.  The main initial drawback is that it really jumps the system specs up from every other game mentioned.

[leapinlew]

What about:

Rise of the Triad

It was so bad, it was a horror

[spacies]

I use a z-board for gaming.

www.zboard.com

I like it. If I were to build a machine for FPS it would be based on the zboard layout.

[ChadTower]

Interesting.  I definitely want to try a joystick for movement, though.

I have a line on some prototype Killing Time artwork that will just put this thing way over the top.

[spacies]

Chad,


How about 2 flight sim sticks with small buttons down the inside of the handles for your thumbs to push?
You would have the trigger buttons for aim/shoot just like a PS/Xbox pad.

Could work out quite well with a bit of thought.

 

[ChadTower]

That's what I'm envisioning for the movement, but are you saying a second stick for the vision control?

[spacies]

Yip,

2 sticks.

1 for  movement and one for vision with some small buttons on the inside for changing weapons, crouching, going prone, reload, use, blah blah blah.

With some thought on the button layout I think it would be a slick setup.

[spacies]

And you would fell like one of those guys in the final Matrix movie shooting ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with big ass machine guns.

 

[Dervacumen]

Mouse look in PC FPS's can be done with a small trackball on the right hand, and transfer the mouse buttons to a 2 button trigger stick on the left hand.

You get WSAD, primary and secondary fire on the right stick, and directional view control on the spinner/trackball.

I've been wanting to do an FPS game for a long time but this possible answer to the mouse/keyboard layout just occurred.

You could use smaller square pushbuttons laid in a nice location near the trackball to enable other functions like flashlights, grenades, or whatever you want.

[theCoder]

I think I'd go with a trackball, two mouse buttons above that, and a 10 key pad.  I used to play a killer game of doom with this combination.

[btp2k2]

I run Duke Nukem 3D on my cabinet using MagStiks and it works great.

With a 8 button setup, there isn't much stuff you can't do.

[JamIt]

I think I'd go with a trackball, two mouse buttons above that, and a 10 key pad.  I used to play a killer game of doom with this combination.

Interesting... Did you then use your thumb to navigate the trackball?  I would have envisioned the mouse buttons being optimal towards the lower left.  I bet this gets driven by how "high" the control panel is when you are playing.

Chad, great idea on a bartop.  Multiplayer comes to mind.  Also, I know this is non-traditional, but how about voice recognition software?  I can see this as kinda cool for switching guns.

[patrickl]

I always wondered if you could use your feet in an FPS. Like with a gas pedal for moving forwards.

[ChadTower]

Mouse look in PC FPS's can be done with a small trackball on the right hand, and transfer the mouse buttons to a 2 button trigger stick on the left hand.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

[Dervacumen]

Yep.  I don't see any other good solution.  Having two push buttons above the trackball would be difficult.  How do you move the palm of your hand around on the mouse and keep your fingers positioned over the buttons?  I think you're right in moving the buttons to the joystick.

[btp2k2]

You know, along these same lines....I don't see why a RTS bartop or cocktail wouldn't work....with a trackball working as the mouse...you might have to wire up an ipac or something also so you could use the extra buttons as hot keys....but it could work...

[ChadTower]

I think it would be easier than an FPS cab.  You'd have to focus on a good quality trackball more than anything else.

[btp2k2]

Yeah, I think FPS would be easier too....but it does certainly open possibilities.....I am putting Madden 07 on my Seahawks cab....I might even put in NBA Live and some other sports games as well...Winning 11 maybe....As most PC games use either a keyboard and or mouse, there really isn't much you can't do with that combo