Modular Control Panel *** NEW IDEA, Opinions wanted ***

[Kaytrim]

The weathermen are predicting an ice storm heading in overnight followed by several inches of snow.  this may effectively lock me in the house with nothing to do.    Hopefully I will have plenty of stuff to update you all on over the next 2-3 days.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Kaytrim]

The ice storm cut our power yesterday but not before I was able to get some work done.     The first image below is the control panel with modules in place.  When the locking mech is released the module pops up as seen in image two.  The locking mech I used us just a normal door latch as you can see in image 3.  Here is the locking mech from below in image 4 and that is about when the power went out.

The ice storm left about 1/4 inch of ice and is still expecting snow around the area today.  I hope that the power outages are over.  I plan on finishing these modules and getting the CAT 5  and USB connections lined up today.  I might even get my trackball installed on one of these modules.  I'll have more pics and a proper write up later.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Kaytrim]

Ok folks.  The ice storm clean up took most of my time and energy yesterday so no more work done on the CP.  I'll take a little time here and do a proper writeup on the progress over the weekend.

First thing people should be aware of about me is that I tend to fly by the seat of my pants  instead of planing out every step before putting saw to wood.  I know that this is not always the best way to do things but it works for me.  You can see the results of this failure to plan in the need to expand the CP so it would hold everything planned.

After the CP expansion was dry and solid I checked the size of the holes for the modules.  I realized that the right hole was slightly too wide (10 1/8") for my module stock (9 7/8").  The next thing that I found out was the height was not enough (7 7/8").  I took a strip of thin plywood and glued and nailed it to one side of the right hole.  Then I took my wood rasp and widened the holes from top to bottom and straightened out the edges.  As long as I was close (1/8") to my planed measurements I could live with a slight gap when the modules were installed.

After everything was close to the planed size and the edges were true I started work on one of the modules.  First I added a strip of wood 1/2" wide and 7 1/2" long that was ripped from a 2x4 wall stud.  This strip was added to the underside of the module.  This strip is where I would be mounting the strike plate and other connectors for the module.  I also installed the springs in the CP.  At this point I checked the fit of the module in both holes and how well the springs worked and made adjustments.  Next I took the other half of the 2x4 and mounted it on the CP on both holes.  This piece will hold the door latch and CP connections. 

I then took a 7/8" spade bit and drilled the holes for the door latch and strike plate on the right hole.  Then moved the module to the left hole and drilled the hole for the door latch there.  This way the two holes would be as identical as possible.  I mounted the door latches and the strike plate.  Next I tested the first module in both holes to make sure that everything worked and the door latches held against the springs.  I also added a metal plate at the bottom of the hole to hold up that end of the module.  Once I was satisfied with the fit in both holes I took a second module and repeated the strike plate installation.  Then checked its fit into both holes.  Everything worked perfectly and you see the results above.

How am I going to release the module after it is locked in place you ask.  I purchased two square keys that fit the door latch when I got the rest of the hardware from Ace.  These keys are basically two short rods with a square profile.  These keys were fitted to wood levers and epoxied in place.  Then I inserted the keys through the door latch holes and put more epoxy on the opposing side.  Next my plans will be to drill a hole in the wood levers where a string will be attached and the other end will be attached to a handle outside the CP box.  You pull on the string and the lever opens the door latch releasing the module.


That should do as far as an explaination.  I know it is rather long winded but that is the "step by step" that I went through.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[SavannahLion]

Just a thought about the string.

Wouldn't it be better to crimp some steel cabling or something of that nature instead of tying some string there?

I'm just thinking how much of a hassle it's going to be to replace the string if/when it stretches and breaks. It might run you about $5 or so for the cabling and the two to four crimps you'll need, but I imagine that's better than tearing apart your cab to get fix something.

That's just me though.

[Kaytrim]

I plan on having the CP swing open with hinges.  This way it would be easy to make any repairs on the control panel.

[_) (V) (-)]

Looks good so far. But I too am not liking the string idea much, too Rube Goldberg'ish I guess.  Maybe a piece of aluminum rod or something a little more rigid would work better. With a little lever setup you could convert the pull action into a pushbutton release.

[Kaytrim]

The throw of the button may be too much.  I need the square key to rotate 90 degrees to fully retract the door latch.  I am also going to need to thread my way around buttons and wire.  Those latches are in the top portion of the CP where my admin buttons are going to be.  As it is my admin buttons are going to have to move around anyway.

Thanks for the suggestions keep them coming. 
Kaytrim

[Kaytrim]

I just had a brainstorm.

The way that things are looking right now I don't have much room at the top of my CP for my admin buttons.  The latch and spring hardware is taking up too much room.  See the forth pic in my last set of pics above.  Once you add a lever sticking out the top of the latch hardware and there is practically no room at all for buttons.

Keeping mind the theme of Frankenstein's Monster and the era that it comes from how about using an old skate key type of setup?  Drill a hole in the CP above where the square key would be on the latch hardware.  Then use the skate key to open the door so to speak.

See the pic below and please respond with your thoughts, I could use some input here.   
Kaytrim

[shorthair]

I'd route out underneath the panel top about half-way or more.  Then instead of that clunky block of wood an all, use a couple small L-brackets for both axis of screws. (The same for the lock port.) If you want more than that, also make or find a small u- or saddle-shaped mounting bracket for the aft part of the lock.

[Kaytrim]

I'd be afraid of the MDF breaking down under the strain over time.  That is why I went with the "clunky block of wood an all".  I do plan to slim down the profile a bit so there is more room.  I just need to figure out how.

Thanks for the input shorthair. 
Kaytrim

[shorthair]

You're welcome.  A lot of people route their panels for sticks and they do fine. I'd think you could not route and yours would be just fine, too.

[Kaytrim]

It's not my sticks that I am worried about.  I need space for my admin buttons which will go above the modules.  Look at the image below and you will see what I mean.  All the hardware for the locking mech is in the space where I need the admin buttons.

[shorthair]

Hmmm....perhaps you could invert the placement of the mechs? Though, that is a lot of admin buttons; using the shift function might be better, if you can't move the mechs.

[Kaytrim]

Not much room at the bottom only maybe 2".  I'd have to measure to be sure.  Not enough room for the door latch hardware which requires 3" min.  I don't have a shift option either with the GPWiz card that I have.  Randy is going to send me the new version of the GPWiz49 cards when they are finished.  If I remember reading somewhere there is no shift option on those either, it was dropped for new functions.  I don't know anything more than what he has posted on the boards.

The admin buttons are as follows.

White/Green                 -> Player start and coin
Red/Yellow/Green         -> Quit Game/Pause/MAME Config
Red/White/Green          -> Back/Scroll/Select (used in GameEx front end)

My end goal is to make this control panel as noob friendly/kid friendly as possible.  That is why I am going to such lengths to make the modules easy to change and connect up when they are slapped into the CP.  This cab gets the most use when we have friends over or when the kids need an extra computer for homework reasons.  There will be a Keyboard and mouse on a tray under this CP box.

[muzland]

Hi Kaytrim,

Here is an idea for you that I just thought up but I am not sure how practical it is for your layout.

I can see you are worried about latching the panels down. I had the same issue with my modular system but it is only the joysticks that are a problem. If they are not held down securely they can come out in gameplay which is most annoying to say the least.

The solution I used was to use a standard panel clamp for each joystick module. Works a treat but I can only put the joysticks in one of a few positions were I have the clamps. They are easy to reach from the underneath for securing and undoing on my cab. My modular system is very similar to Doc's, in fact it inspired what I did. The only difference is that I did not use the dowels as my woodworking skills are poor. I just used some runners. It should be clear from the pictures.



Anyway, this is not the *NEW* solution I had just thought up. You basically have two square shaped holes that you could drop control module boxes into rather than just mount panels onto.

I see the benefits as follows;

1) Innards of the module box are secure and any wiring cannot be knocked accidentally making a much more robust and child freindly solution.

2) The control panel receptacle itself should also have four walls giving rigidity to the whole structure. Once a box is dropped in it is going nowhere even without any additonal latching mechanisms.

3) Boxes are easy to build out of wood.

4) The connectors could be a push fit male molex type recessed to the base of the box. A corresponding female molex will be inside the box on the control panel. Drop the module box in and you ave instant mating connections. No RJ45 and flying leads needed.

5) Put a notch on one side of the box so that it can only be inserted the correct way. Again child freindly

You can get the molex connectors with around 20 pins. Enough for all of the switch inputs, USB, optical and analogue connections you could need.

Hope this triggers off some new thoughts.

Cheers
Muzland

[johnperkins21]

How close is the bottom of your monitor to the top of your cp? Basically what I'm asking is can you slant your admin panel so it looks somewhat like this crude ASCII drawing:

 \___

You probably don't even need that much of a slant, just enough to clear your locking mech. It's just an idea I thought I would throw out there.

[muzland]

Hi again Kaytrim,

I should say that the major problem I have with the Doc type modules I have made is the fact that you have to be really careful when handling them so that you don't accidentally damage any of the wires/connections. It's a real pain when this happens.

It also makes it guest unfriendly to the point that I rarely let people change the panels. It is also fiddly messing around with pluging in RJ45's and making sure they put them in the right place, not to mention the rats nest of wires you get with several modules.

This is why I like the box approach. Much more robust and user friendly. One day I will mod my cab for this.

I have been racking my brains for ages now on how I could have a modular box based approach but not be constrained by having to put the modules in a particular position. No solution yet apart from each module would have to be the same size as the connectors are the big issue as I want them to connect as I insert the module for ease of use.

The best I have come up with (and it is not really workable) is to use LEGO  . Don't laugh as this is not as daft as it sounds. Imagine one of my panels in the pictures above having the internals of the joystick enclosed in a box. On the underside, at 90 degrees to where the runners currently are you would have a piece of lego the entire length of the module. Each of the bumps in the LEGO runner would be wired to a conductive contact (providing approx 30 unique contact points). These would mate with the base of the CP with contacts running the entire length of the CP that were again at 90 degrees to the ones on the module.

This would allow you to place the modules in any position. Each of the 30 contact runners on the CP would be mapped to a specific input on the IPAC, OPTIPAC, APAC, USB, etc. Each module box would wire to the relevant LEGO contact. Push them together and hey presto!

I got the LEGO idea from the guy on the boards who built a cabinet completely from LEGO!

Besides the practicality of using LEGO (there must be a better way), to support 28 inputs for an IPAC, another 6 for an OPTIPAC, 4 for USB and god knows how many for an APAC, the CP depth would need to be quite big. You would need all of these to make it truly flexible and able to cater for any eventuality....

I really like what you have done with your panel. Another downside of Doc style modular system is that you don't get fancy CP overlays. Your system still has the abilty to decorate your panel to your hearts content. Lucky I like the all black look 

This is in no way a dig at Doc's approach. After all I used it myself. I am always looking for ways to improve the ease of use of my cab that do not cost the earth. I am not a fan of Frankenpanels on narrow cabs.

Anyway, brainstorming over. Here are a before and after picture of my cab.

Muzland

[Kaytrim]

How close is the bottom of your monitor to the top of your cp? Basically what I'm asking is can you slant your admin panel so it looks somewhat like this crude ASCII drawing:

 \___

You probably don't even need that much of a slant, just enough to clear your locking mech. It's just an idea I thought I would throw out there.

John,

That is the way that things are now on my test cab and it is not the prettiest solution.  This why I am moving them to the main CP.

[Kaytrim]

Hi Kaytrim,

Here is an idea for you that I just thought up but I am not sure how practical it is for your layout.

I can see you are worried about latching the panels down. I had the same issue with my modular system but it is only the joysticks that are a problem. If they are not held down securely they can come out in gameplay which is most annoying to say the least.

This is why the joysticks will be permanently mounted.  With the GGG GPWiz49 V2 and my Midway 49-way sticks.  I can handle most any joystick type except topfire and rotary.  I can get a rotary switch to fit my sticks and they will work with the GPWiz49.  At least that is how the current version of the interface works if I get an adapter card.  So the only type of joystick that I cannot easily emulate is the topfire sticks.  IIRC the only games that use a topfire are tank type games. I can emulate that with three buttons up, down and fire or mount a topfire stick on a module.

Anyway, this is not the *NEW* solution I had just thought up. You basically have two square shaped holes that you could drop control module boxes into rather than just mount panels onto.

I see the benefits that you mention in fact items 4 and 5 can be combined.  However, one issue that I see is how do I get the box out after it is put in the CP?

The best I have come up with (and it is not really workable) is to use LEGO  . Don't laugh as this is not as daft as it sounds. Imagine one of my panels in the pictures above having the internals of the joystick enclosed in a box. On the underside, at 90 degrees to where the runners currently are you would have a piece of lego the entire length of the module. Each of the bumps in the LEGO runner would be wired to a conductive contact (providing approx 30 unique contact points). These would mate with the base of the CP with contacts running the entire length of the CP that were again at 90 degrees to the ones on the module.

This idea has merit especially when combined with the module box approach you mentioned earlier.  However it would take a quite a bit of planning and laying out all the possible connections.  For the button panel I am planing on using 7 buttons two with the same function, there is 7 connections, 6 buttons plus the ground.  Then add single color LEDs 8 connections, 1 for each button plus ground.  Now think about the RGB LEDs that is 3 connections for each button, 21 connections plus 1 ground.  Now I agree even that will give me more than I can effectively handle currently.  This gives a max number of connections at 30, 6 button connections, 21 RGB LED and 2 ground.

To simplify the solution I could just purchase a GPWiz, LEDWiz and a 2.0 USB hub for each module.  That way I would only have one USB connection for each box.  Simple but not financially practical ~$75 each module.

I really like what you have done with your panel. Another downside of Doc style modular system is that you don't get fancy CP overlays. Your system still has the ability to decorate your panel to your hearts content. Lucky I like the all black look 

Thanks, my plan is to have different artwork for each module and tie it into the CP artwork using 'stiches'. 

I want to thank everyone so far for your input on the modules.  This is turning into a more complicated project that I had anticipated.  I have cleaned up the hardware around the module holes and I will post pics later.  I am going to use the 'skate key' method mentioned above to release the locks on the modules.

Now I need to turn our collective brain power to the issue mentioned by muzland.  How to connect the modules to the GPWiz, GPWiz49 and USB interfaces.  I tried to use the CAT5 connectors (RJ45) but they would not line up when a module was put onto the CP.  Keep in mind that the module uses the edge closest to the player as a hinge point.  See the image of the module popped up above to get the idea.  With this being the case we are dealing with an arc not a line when inserting a module.

As it is getting late I will sign off for the night.  Thanks again for the help everyone.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Kaytrim]

I think that I just found a solution to all my problems with these modules.  Here is a nice little lock that I found while looking for "knock down fittings". 
http://www.woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=941-831&LARGEVIEW=ON
Here is another option
http://www.woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=941-817&LARGEVIEW=ON

I got the search idea from another thread I don't remember which one now.  I believe that it was NickG that mentioned it so credit goes to him.

I can put one of these little bad boys at the top and one at the bottom along with the spring pins that I have, I'll have to make 4 more.  Then all I have to do is push the module straight into place, no hinge point and these locks will make sure that everything lines up and doesn't move.  I could even use the box method that muzland mentioned to protect all the wires and controls.  I just have to wait a bit before I place my order.  I'll need 8 of these for starters so I might as well get 10 to get the full volume discount.

[Kaytrim]

Below are the pics of my current CP underside setup.  This is after slimming down the profiles a bit.  After reading my previous post this will more than likely all change.  The line drawn here shows the inside line of the CP box showing the area that I have to work with.  Sorry about the focus of the full CP I didn't realize it until I got the pic prepared for posting.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[shorthair]

Remembering you saying the sticks were gonna be permanetly mounted, I'm not sure where you're going to put them; is that pic from the 'other' side of the panel?  Also, the links go to a plain page of that site - no products.

[Kaytrim]

Remembering you saying the sticks were gonna be permanetly mounted, I'm not sure where you're going to put them; is that pic from the 'other' side of the panel?  Also, the links go to a plain page of that site - no products.

Yes, the pics I posted today are of the underside of the CP.  The sticks will be on the left side of the module holes.  Look at the diagram I posted 2/27/07 here for the stick placement.  I click on the links that I posted this morning and they take me to the product page.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

Here are the pics;

[muzland]

Hi Kaytrim,

I have done some more research on the connector issue and there is a very elegant and cheap solution!

Veroboard - See the picture attached.

This stuff is cheap as it is used for prototyping PCB's. The beauty of these boards is that the are arranged in long conductor strips. They can be boaught from any electronic bits retailer.

Mount a board inside your CP in each of the holes where your modules are going. Solder wires to each of the long strips and wire these to your keyboard encoder. Each strip in then a unique input. Mount another one on the underside of the drop in modules (oriented the same way) and solder wires to the desired conductor strip and connect these to the controls in the module.

Now put a blob of solder on each of the conductor strips on the module. Now when you insert your module into the CP the blobs of solder simply need to touch the conductor strips in the veroboard mounted in the CP. Hey presto you have electrical connections.

If you spring mount the veroboard that is mounted in the CP then you should get really good connections.

What do you think?

I am off to source some veroboards as I only have one at the moment.

Regards
Muzland

[SavannahLion]

The Lego idea is really rocking.  Plus I can just see my little kid trying to use the panel as a base for his/her Legos. Another thing to look at could be using DUPLO blocks instead. The bigger nubs might resist the abuse better.

But I see one minor problem. Let's simply the problem for illustrative purposes. If I understand what you're saying, each row of blocks represents a conducting rail. For Shits and giggles, let's imagine we have an imaginary giant 30 x * block where each row of nubs represents a rail. So using our crude electrical example we have something like this....

1   ------------------------------------------------
2   ------------------------------------------------
3   ------------------------------------------------
4   ------------------------------------------------
.
.
.
30 ------------------------------------------------

Where each numbered rail represents a connection to the controller.

Now if we place a joystick block on the rail to the left. It would (arbitrarily) tap into rails 1 - 4 for player one controls. Then we drop in a 2nd block for buttons tapping into rails 5 - 12, then a third block for player 2 controls which should tap into rails 13 - 16. However we have a problem, if P1 joystick box is made identical to P2 joystick box, it would tap into rails 1 - 4, not 13 - 16 like it should. If you make P1 and P2 joystick different, it wouldn't be "guest" friendly because they would then have to figure out where to place each joystick.

If this is what you have in mind. The only solution I can think of at the moment is a toggling system for P2.

Let's say you go with the rail system. Add an additional two rails 1/2 way across the panel from the left to the center. Any box that touches this rail modifies the internal circuitry to use the P1 specific rails. If it makes no contact, then it uses P2 rails. The drawback is you might have problems with single player configurations and you'll have to be careful on the sizes of the boxes.

I've got a couple of other ideas to handle this but they all center around the same basic principle. Such as a left-right notching system using spring loaded switches

I'm a tad behind on my LEGO knowledge. The last LEGOs I had, they were just coming out with the powered bricks. I just checked the website and I couldn't find any place where you could just buy the older style powered bricks, nor could I find any place to individually buy the bricks used in the Mindstorm kits.

It's a damn good idea though, I'll keep researching it to see if I want to use it rather than my original idea.

[bfauska]

You could use the strips idea, if you split it in the center of the CP.  This way you have you connections running from side to side on the CP and the individual panel would connect to the players controls associated with the right half or left half of the panel.  Each pair of control modules could be identical and the only thing the user would have to know is that player 1 is on the left and player 2 is on the right.

I am pretty sure that this system would work, if I am understanding the first half of the idea, if not I am sure it would work with the way that I am picturing it.  If it needs some clairification let me know.

Later,
Brian

[SavannahLion]

It would work, but the design might exclude specific panel layouts, like a Galaga style.

[muzland]

Hi All,

SavannahLion makes a good point and one I had not considered.

bfauska provides one really simply solution. Split it in the middle if it is a truly modular panel system to provide left and right.

Not sure what you mean by Galaga style as this game was a horizontal 2 way with one button. SO no issues there. If you mean the button is on the right had side then simply remap it in MAME for that game.

I can see potentially the same kind of problems with say a Defender layout but again the mapping would resolve this.

Neither of these issues will be a problem for Kaytrim as he would have two separate veroboards (one for each module position in the CP).

The obvious solutions to this kind of problem are probably the best. Label up your panels to say P1 or P2. This does not need to be on a part of the control module box that is visible once inserted. Or colour code them for the kiddies with matching colour on the CP.

Veroboard: So far I have found some with 44 conducting rails. This is all in a space envelope of 95mm. A normal panel is around 11 to 12" deep from the front to back so you could easily accommodate 2 of these for 88 conductors! I think that is probably enough for whatever you need. The longest I have seen the panels is 127mm so 8 boards would be needed for the cp for a 24" wide CP with 88 conductors. Each module would also need some veroboard but 1 board could be cut to do 4 or 5 modules easily. Still very cost effective. Each board is around £3 here in the UK, so around $6 US. It cost me £30+ for my RJ45 solution and a lot of wiring.

One other issue I think we have with this is how we join the boards together to provide long continuous conducting rails. You want the top conducting surface flat so we get a good contact with each of the modules. I will think on this one. Maybe there are really long boards out these. By the way they are sometimes referred to as stripboards rather than veroboard if people are having difficulty finding them.

Cheers
Muzland

[Kaytrim]

I made a little progress tonight on the CP.  I finalized the release.  I started with a window lock kit for Lowes.  This kit is for the old casement windows.  What you do is drill a hole through the to casements and insert the screw with a special key.  In pic 1 you see the kit backer card and one of the screws.  In pic 2 you see the underside of my CP where I have used my favorite epoxy again to glue the screw to the latch mech.  In pic 3 you see the key and screw head.  The head is completely round except for a small flat spot that the key fits.  I have a .mov file of the relase in action but I cannot upload it right now due to the size.  I'll try to convert it to an .avi file and upload it later.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Donkey_Kong]

Kaytrim,

The CP is looking great man. It is gonna be sooooo FRANKIN' too.

Keep up the charge on the project...   

[SavannahLion]

I saw this, it's a finger guard for metal cases. I initially thought I could mount this as part of a contact system, but it's really thin so I didn't think it would hold up under use. Maybe someone else could have better ideas.

Maybe use that in conjuction with muzlands idea for veroboard?

I think the veroboard would be better applied as an edgecard connector. I'm having a ---smurfette--- of a time finding anyone locally that sells veroboard or stripboard. Most everyone sells perfboard or, if you're really lucky, TriPads. It's like this ---smurfing--- city doesn't want anyone to learn electronics properly. Everything I've found is so half-assed.

[Kaytrim]

See the release in action.  Due to the size of this little 10 second video I uploaded it to YouTube.  Here is the URL

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[shorthair]

Yeah, I think that works pretty good.  If you're going to put plexi or lexan over the CP, then it'll make for a nice natural recession of the turn stud.

[Kaytrim]

I have been trying to make all my connections on the latch side of the module.  Nothing is working 100% at this point.  I just had a brainstorm and would like to bounce it off everyone here.  How about using an edge connector like what is on a JAMMA board.  Only place the connector at the opposet side from the latch.  This way you plug in the edge connector then latch the module in place.  I'll try to create some rough drawings to show what I mean.

*Edit*
Image below

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Kaytrim]

Does anybody have any thoughts on this connector style? ? ?

[SavannahLion]

You mean like how NES console/carts worked?

[Kaytrim]

You mean like how NES console/carts worked?

Yep    I found some connectors in my Mouser Electronics catalog that have from 20 to 100 contacts.  So the options are endless.  With these I could even use GGG Electric ICE buttons. 

[kizer]

Looks like a fancy IDE cable. Unless your looking for a snap in without reaching in and plugging in the cable.

[Kaytrim]

... snap in without reaching in and plugging in the cable.

That is the idea.   

[rockin_rick]

I'd be leery of breaking the fingerboard...

What you are looking for is referred to as a blind mating connector.  I've never used one, but perhaps this would be a good search term.  Check out the mini-fit BMI-

http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/P0163.pdf

Also, I remember from back in the day racing RC cars, that some people used blind mating with power connectors for quick changing the batteries.  I don't have any links about this, but maybe that could be a lead for you.

Also, my megatouch uses a blind mating connector on the coin 'door' for the coin switch.  One of the connectors is hard mounted, while the other can float a bit.

Rick