An open letter to Nintendo...

[hypernova]

I had an N64 for around 8 years before selling it and the controllers with it.  The official Nintendo branded controllers NEVER went bad.  Not even the analog sticks.  Even after all those years, I STILL had the original sticks in those things, tight as they could be.

N64 sticks were notorious for wearing out.  I've had probably 50-75 of them from my yard sale travels/console work... most of them, by the time the consoles were sold, had almost useless analog sticks.  They are not repairable and use a very proprietary set of parts made of thin plastic.  The N64 analog sticks may have worked well but were not built to last.

Definitely. Once the powder starts showing up around the analog stick, you know your controller is on the way out. Granted though, I think all my N64 controllers have powder, but they are still playable. They just keep getting rougher and less centered.

I occasionally found very thin layers of powder.  All I did was clean it off.  Every once in awhile, I opened it all up, including the assembly holding the stick parts together, cleaned it out, and put it back together.  My sticks held up perfectly their entire lives.  I must've been the exception.

[ChadTower]

You do know that the powder is ground off bits of the stick assembly, right?  The reason the powder is there is because the two sets of perpendicular rails that read the stick's position is being ground down by the stick itself.  The presence of that powder is itself evidence that your sticks were not holding up perfectly.

[versapak]

The 360 doesn't lose money any more either.

Do you have a link for that?  That's interesting.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155499



I know I have seen it several other places as well, but my internet is running like a sinking rock, so I will just have to settle for that one link. I dunno if there has been any official statement from MS on the subject, and the linked estimate seems to only apply to the Premium 360.

[ark_ader]

Reading all this about the wii makes me glad I didn't buy one. 

[versapak]

Reading all this about the wii makes me glad I didn't buy one. 

Huh?


If that is what you are getting from the people that own one, then chances are you aren't understanding much of what is said.


The gripes in this thread are so minor to the overall enjoyment of the Wii that to take any kind of stance like the one you state is just ridiculous.

[Howard_Casto]

Ok, the honeymoon is over, as much as I love my wii, as much as I think it is already the definative winner of this round's console wars, I have some complaints. 

What he said.... did you miss that line or something there skippy?

[sphetr2]

I wish the Wii's nunchuk, as well as the GC controller, didn't have that stupid outline around the analog sticks. I don't get it. Why? 

[shmokes]

Are you talking about the octagon shape?  God, I've always loved that.  It makes it much easier to hit the cardinal directions (and diagonals) exactly, while still giving full analog control.  I've often wished for the same when playing the Xbox.

[sphetr2]

Are you talking about the octagon shape?  God, I've always loved that.  It makes it much easier to hit the cardinal directions (and diagonals) exactly, while still giving full analog control.  I've often wished for the same when playing the Xbox.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. I guess you're right about that- on games where you really need to get your directions right (like SSBM, etc.) it is helpful. But I don't like it on the nunchuk.

[Glaine]

Actually the xbox controller had the best rumble feature and it's sorta non-debateable

I wouldn't know because the controller looks like booty. O yeah and what does that huge bubble do in the middle there? Lets see if it is a big ole button. Nope. Maybe it is a screen for showing you a map of the level (like in Crystal Chronicles). Nope. O yeah, it is a huge waste of space and an eyesore and I hate it.

Plus, as Maddox says on his old 2003 page, it isn't really a bonus that the controller is as big as a dreamcast (taken from here http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=xbox_suckit).

[shmokes]

Come now . . . the Xbox hasn't used that controller in years.  That controller hasn't even been available as an option.  The controler S has been standard since shortly after the initial launch and it isn't nearly as big as the original.  Even still, I use the MadCatz Microcons.  They are some of my favorite controllers ever made for any system, beaten out only by the Gamecube controller.  But, then, I have little girl hands.

[ChadTower]

I like smaller controllers too.  I use the smaller MadCatz Cube controllers and have a couple smaller Xbox controllers I prefer (I forget who made them but they have Darth Vader on them and are full of red LEDs).

[Glaine]

Well then I man up to being miss-informed. I haven't paid them much attention so if those aren't in use anymore, my bad. You gotta admit they looked nasty though.

[AtomSmasher]

Actually the xbox controller had the best rumble feature and it's sorta non-debateable

I wouldn't know because the controller looks like booty. O yeah and what does that huge bubble do in the middle there? Lets see if it is a big ole button. Nope. Maybe it is a screen for showing you a map of the level (like in Crystal Chronicles). Nope. O yeah, it is a huge waste of space and an eyesore and I hate it.

Plus, as Maddox says on his old 2003 page, it isn't really a bonus that the controller is as big as a dreamcast (taken from here http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=xbox_suckit).

How exactly does the controller looking like a "booty" have anything to do with how good the rumble feature is?  Does the bubble in the middle reduce the amount of rumble?  I don't see how any of that is relevant.

[shmokes]

I think that controller is just so ridiculous it's hard not to jump on the slightest opportunity to ridicule it.

[AtomSmasher]

I think that controller is just so ridiculous it's hard not to jump on the slightest opportunity to ridicule it.

Hehe, true.

[ark_ader]

Ok, the honeymoon is over, as much as I love my wii, as much as I think it is already the definative winner of this round's console wars, I have some complaints. 

What he said.... did you miss that line or something there skippy?

No.  I have read about issues from other boards and from friends who have had the wii and got rid of it pretty quickly.  Your comments is just icing on the cake. 

Before the wii came out I was pretty excited about it, but was let down after it came out.  I bought a PSP recently and have enjoyed that immensely.  My money will go to the PS3, especially now that it can run OS X.

Howard your comments on this board, I take with great respect and gratitude.  As your keen eye on these matters is always accurate.  Thank you. 

[ChadTower]

Howard your comments on this board, I take with great respect and gratitude.  As your keen eye on these matters is always accurate.  Thank you. 

Now we know he's on the drugs.

[shmokes]

No.  I have read about issues from other boards and from friends who have had the wii and got rid of it pretty quickly.  Your comments is just icing on the cake. 

Before the wii came out I was pretty excited about it, but was let down after it came out.  I bought a PSP recently and have enjoyed that immensely.  My money will go to the PS3, especially now that it can run OS X.

Howard your comments on this board, I take with great respect and gratitude.  As your keen eye on these matters is always accurate.  Thank you. 

What?  Get the ---fudgesicle--- out of here.  You don't have a single friend, let alone plural that managed to get their hands on a Wii and then "got rid of it pretty quickly".  The only way that happened is if you're talking about someone who got the Wii to make some money on Ebay in the first place.  What a load of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  Anybody who doesn't live under a rock knows that the reception of the Wii has been near universally positive.  You may have a friend who got a Wii and didn't like it, but the odds are just too low that you have "friends" in this position.  Hell the odds aren't even that high that you have multiple friends who even managed to acquire one, considering their unavailability up to this point, let alone multiple friends who got them and thought they were crap.

Also, why in the name of god would  you give a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- about running OS X on a PS3?  Presumeably you'd have to run it through some kind of virtualization software like VMware, since it's built for the X86 architecture, so it would run like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.  But even if you got somewhat decent performance out of it, what would be the point?  I mean, I don't buy into the whole "Sony's already lost the Next Gen battle" line.  I think it's way too early to say that, but the way you're going on makes it clear that you are the worst kind of fanboy.

[ark_ader]

No.  I have read about issues from other boards and from friends who have had the wii and got rid of it pretty quickly.  Your comments is just icing on the cake. 

Before the wii came out I was pretty excited about it, but was let down after it came out.  I bought a PSP recently and have enjoyed that immensely.  My money will go to the PS3, especially now that it can run OS X.

Howard your comments on this board, I take with great respect and gratitude.  As your keen eye on these matters is always accurate.  Thank you. 

What?  Get the ---fudgesicle--- out of here.  You don't have a single friend, let alone plural that managed to get their hands on a Wii and then "got rid of it pretty quickly".  The only way that happened is if you're talking about someone who got the Wii to make some money on Ebay in the first place.  What a load of ---Cleveland steamer---.  Anybody who doesn't live under a rock knows that the reception of the Wii has been near universally positive.  You may have a friend who got a Wii and didn't like it, but the odds are just too low that you have "friends" in this position.  Hell the odds aren't even that high that you have multiple friends who even managed to acquire one, considering their unavailability up to this point, let alone multiple friends who got them and thought they were crap.

Also, why in the name of god would  you give a ---Cleveland steamer--- about running OS X on a PS3?  Presumeably you'd have to run it through some kind of virtualization software like VMware, since it's built for the X86 architecture, so it would run like ---Cleveland steamer---.  But even if you got somewhat decent performance out of it, what would be the point?  I mean, I don't buy into the whole "Sony's already lost the Next Gen battle" line.  I think it's way too early to say that, but the way you're going on makes it clear that you are the worst kind of fanboy.

Have you researched your information before you posted that? 

Sorry that my comments have offended you.  I'll buy a wii for my nephew, for his birthday.  Does that make you feel better?   

[somunny]

I think Howard will lose sleep if he knew he was the cause of one person *not* buying a Wii.  Seriously.

[Zero_Hour]

My money will go to the PS3, especially now that it can run OS X.

I hope that's not a primary reason you are buying a PS3, because the chances of it happening are only slightly greater than none at all. If it does happen, I would doubt that it is anything but a hack, and at that point I'd have to consider it a novelty to run and just go back to using Linux on the box. And yes I have researched the topic. Still, if you see any press releases from Apple stating that they will be offering a release for the PS3, by all means post the link.

[Howard_Casto]

Well I can understand completely why you'd want to run os x on a ps3.  I mean, afterall, there aren't any games to play on it, so you might as well get your $600 worth. 

[hypernova]

You do know that the powder is ground off bits of the stick assembly, right?  The reason the powder is there is because the two sets of perpendicular rails that read the stick's position is being ground down by the stick itself.  The presence of that powder is itself evidence that your sticks were not holding up perfectly.

*Sigh*...Yes.  The point is, they were, after 8 years of steady use, still working perfectly.  As with anything, they wouldn't last forever.

Well I can understand completely why you'd want to run os x on a ps3.  I mean, afterall, there aren't any games to play on it, so you might as well get your $600 worth. 

I've read they're contemplating a price drop on their next fiscal year, which I assume is soon.

And I wouldn't be surprised if MS and Nintendo are waiting in anticipation, only to drop their prices in response.  At least, that's my hope.  Bury the PS3.

[Glaine]

Actually the xbox controller had the best rumble feature and it's sorta non-debateable

I wouldn't know because the controller looks like booty. O yeah and what does that huge bubble do in the middle there? Lets see if it is a big ole button. Nope. Maybe it is a screen for showing you a map of the level (like in Crystal Chronicles). Nope. O yeah, it is a huge waste of space and an eyesore and I hate it.

Plus, as Maddox says on his old 2003 page, it isn't really a bonus that the controller is as big as a dreamcast (taken from here http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=xbox_suckit).

How exactly does the controller looking like a "booty" have anything to do with how good the rumble feature is?  Does the bubble in the middle reduce the amount of rumble?  I don't see how any of that is relevant.

It is relevent because I don't play with booty looking controllers. The fact that it rumbles well does not redeem the controller in my eyes because at that point the look and feel of that behemoth was a more pressing issue. My point is that gaming is a package deal, needing good controls (but not too many of them like GameCube pads), sleek shape, not needlessly large. And then after those things, extras like LED displays, rumble, memory cards, etc.

We need a smiley with a flamethrower now cuz everyone will assume this is a flame war. 

[ChadTower]

I wouldn't know because the controller looks like booty.

How exactly does the controller looking like a "booty"? 

It is relevent because I don't play with booty looking.

[shmokes]

(but not too many of them like GameCube pads)

Are you saying the GameCube had too many controls?  The Gamecube controller has fewer buttons than either the Xbox or the PS2.  Am I reading your post right?

PS2: Two analog sticks, 6 face buttons, D-Pad (4 buttons), 4 shoulder buttons = 14 buttons + 2 sticks

Xbox: Two analog sticks, 8 face buttons, D-Pad (4 buttons), 2 shoulder buttons = 14 buttons + 2 sticks

Gamecube: Two analog sticks, 5 face buttons, D-Pad (4 buttons), three shoulder buttons = 12 buttons + 2 sticks

[ChadTower]

The Xbox is the only one that you can press the sticks, yes?

[Howard_Casto]

No you could on the ps2 as well. 

"Stick clicking" should be outlawed though.  You use tiny movements to line things up with the stick only to have to press down on it, which of course throws the direction off again. 

Btw, I have no clue how this became a debate about controllers when I was talking about the rumble feature. 

For the record the xbox classic (not s) controller is STILL better than the playstation controller imho because sony's controllers are too tiny.  I don't have large hands by any means, but when I have a sony controller in my hand I feel like I'm going to break it. Plus the angle on the palm rest pads is too extreme, making it akward to hold.  And even if you don't agree about the classic, there is no denying that the s controller is prefectly playable and on a comparable level with the sony controllers, making the argument irrelevant. 

It's also hard to make a point of sony's controllers having a superior design when they basically copied the snes design (but ruined it by putting those horrible palm pads on it) 15+ years ago.  They've only tried to change it once at last years e3 and the design they came up with was so bad they were almost laughed off the stage. 

Since we've went down that road... I guess what I'm saying is that sony's controllers aren't designed better, they just aren't designed at all.  People don't have any issue with them because they are very generic.  Just like a man in a plain grey suit doesn't offend anyone, but he isn't very interesting either. 

[Glaine]

You're right, stick clicking is lame. I'm sure they think it is a brilliant idea too.

I don't even like the analog controls on the PS2 controller, but it is like you said - I like it because it feels like a SNES pad, which I've always liked. I'm not even crazy for sholder buttons on some games, like some of you can understand with your control panel aimed at the classics - sometimes very few good controls is wonderful. And even when it is ok to have a lot, keep it clean. PS controlls are very very plain, but everything is easy to reach. I suppose new model XBox is too.

And theres my real issue with GameCube, I have trouble getting to everything.
I knew someone would say something if I mentioned the GameCube controller, I know there aren't many controlls on there - but it feels like it to me. For some reason, the placement of everything feels really awkward, where the analog trigger is sticking out sideways from another trigger and theres some other trigger over under the other side and the sticks that are just out of reach when I need them...I don't like it. Maybe I would if I had a lot of time to spend learning it.

[shmokes]

Obviously just a matter of personal preference, but it seems to me that Nintendo is the only company of the three to try to rectify your complaint.  They have four face buttons, similar to the Playstation, but they made them different shapes and sizes (and colors) so that they can be instantly identified by touch, making them much less confusing in my opinion, not to mention that this is the stated reason for designing them this way.  If you just set your finger on a random button on the PS controller or a button other than black and white on the Xbox controller you would have no way of knowing what button it is.

With only two triggers that your fingers forefingers constantly rest on it's impossible to confuse them, unlike the shoulder buttons of the PS and PS2, and the Z button (right shoulder button -- there is no left shoulder button) is shaped so differently, and is just a button rather than an analog trigger, not to mention that it is placed in such a way that it is incredibly awkward to press , that you could never mistakenly press it when you meant to press the right trigger. 

Everything about the Gamecube controller was designed to make it less confusing, because Miyamoto felt that controllers were becoming too complex.  Plus, they are the most comfortable, ergonomic controllers ever made (that us, until the Wii was released, and the Xbox360 controllers might give them a run for their money in the comfort department).

[Howard_Casto]

While I totally agree that the gamecube controller was a valliant attempt to improve upon the 4 button design, it was a miserable failure.  You see first party nintendo titles are designed to use as few buttons as possible, seldom having to press multiple buttons at the same time.  For that, the gamecube controller worked well.  Unfortunately all thrid party games, particularly games that were ported to multiple consoles don't work this way.  Fighters are particularly hard to play on the cube because you can't press all 4 buttons at once, which is often required.  If I were to pin-point the singular fault that lead to the gc's less than successful run, it'd be the controllers. 

BUT they were trying something new, which is good.  It was a learning process.  They learned that changing the button shape doesn't really help much, you simply need to have less buttons.  Their constant experimentation eventually led to the wiimote.  You'll note though that the classic controller, which they expected to be useful for third-party ports, is basically a snes controller with a few analog sticks on it.  For traditional 2d gaming the old 4 button layout can't be beat. 

[MajorLag]

Can you really say that it was Nintendo's failure though? Nintendo did great with the GC controller. They even had a blockbuster fighting game that used it very well. Seems to me like the failure was with the third parties. They smiply couldn't break out of their old ways.

[ChadTower]

They should put braille on the buttons.  That way we can tell immediately what button it is no matter what the shape.   

[Howard_Casto]

Can you really say that it was Nintendo's failure though? Nintendo did great with the GC controller. They even had a blockbuster fighting game that used it very well. Seems to me like the failure was with the third parties. They smiply couldn't break out of their old ways.

Well yes I can.  That blockbuster fighter you are mentioning (soul caliber II) played horribly on the gamecube because of the akward controller.  Playing it on the gc vs playing it on the xbox or ps2 was like night and day.  Nintendo doesn't make fighting games, so they don't have to worry about it (and no, smash bros is not a fighting game) but it doesn't mean that third parties who made fighting games missed the ball simply because the gc controller was only designed with one type of game (3d adventure) in mind. 

[ChadTower]

Maybe he meant one of the Smash Bros games?

[shmokes]

Yeah . . . he's certainly talking about SSB: Melee. 

[Howard_Casto]

As I said, smash bros is not a fighting game, regardless of what he meant.  It's a fighting game like mario kart is a racing sim.  Don't get me wrong, it's fun and all (sort of) but when you simply mash buttons to perform special moves, even the most akward of controllers would have worked.

[ChadTower]

It is as much a button masher as Soul Caliber.  Bad/inexperienced players mash.  Good players do not mash.

In fact, they are very much the same, but implemented in a different way.

[shmokes]

even the most akward of controllers would have worked.

You are, presumably, referring to this: